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General Chat => Off Topic => : radiator 13 January, 2010, 10:49:21 PM

: The Big British Castle
: radiator 13 January, 2010, 10:49:21 PM
The BBC seems to really be getting it in the neck lately - attacked from all sides, and being forced to severely moderate/censor their output as to not give their enemies yet more ammunition to hit them with. It seems to be lurching from one shitstorm to the next - the 'fakery' scandal, the phoneline thing, Nick Griffin on Question Time, the whole Johnathon Ross/Russel Brand saga... and there's a lot of discussion about the tories plotting to privitise it when they inevitably get into power.

I understand that these things are largely stirred up by Rupert Murdoch, but this doesn't seem to be solely a media created phenomenon. Do people out there really, truly resent paying the license fee that much? What is it, like £120 a year? The same as a single month's Council Tax? For me, the expenditure is more than justified by the likes of The Apprentice, Screen/News/Gameswipe, Question Time, Being Human, Adam and Joe (and 6 Music in general), The iPlayer, Doctor Who, Psychoville, anything David Attenborough does... not to mention the back catalogue... So not all of their output is for me (and some of it is downright depressing) but then I appreciate that they're trying to cater for all tastes.

Did I miss a meeting or something? I'm absolutely mystified about all this hatred for the BBC! I love the BBC with all my heart, and to sell it off would be an absolute travesty, and something I'm sure we'd all come to regret very deeply.

So what's the beef? Do you agree/disagree?
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Dandontdare 13 January, 2010, 10:54:54 PM
I'd agree. For the sheer volume and diversity of what is produced, the licence fee is a bargain. I really fear for the BBC over the next five years, because if Cameron gets in, as seems sadly likely, Murdoch will certainly expect some quid-pro-quo for his support, and the hatchets will be out for the beeb.

As an aside, I had a friend once who bought a TV licence (nobody else had one in them days) specifically so he could, with a clear conscience, ring up the BBC switchboard late at night to make drunken complaints that always began "As a license fee payer...."
: Re: The Big British Castle
: SamuelAWilkinson 13 January, 2010, 11:47:58 PM
Way up there with you, chaps. When you look at the dross pumped out by the competition and the networks abroad, there's no comparison, even if Auntie pumps out a good deal of dross herself. I've said it before, but the existence and success of the revived Doctor Who is argument alone for its existence and unique funding method - no other broadcaster in the world would have given a bloke who writes gay dramas a big pile of cash to make a new series of a forgotten and largely-mocked childrens' drama.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Peter Wolf 14 January, 2010, 12:59:56 AM
I do resent paying the licence fee but not for how much it costs or only because of the quality of its programming although that is part of the problem but my reasons are mostly political in the way that it is clearly politically slanted which is not supposed to be part of its remit and because of the slanted nature of a large amount of its climate change bias and the people who run it.Its too politicised but politicised without being objective.

I feel that this has happened since Greg Dyke was forced to resign and i like making up acronyms of what the BBC stands for.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Jim_Campbell 14 January, 2010, 08:36:24 AM
This is a straight copy & paste from a post by me on another forum, but it's so thoroughly applicable here that I didn't see the point in re-typing ...

I know it's not exactly a popular viewpoint, but I think the license fee is remarkable value for money, when you consider what it actually delivers.

The commercial TV model is clearly on its last legs, leaving only subscription as a viable model. Subscription + Market Forces = Sky.

Now, if you view the BBC as provider of individually packaged products, then the license fee is an enforced subscription, and I can understand why people rail against it.

I don't view the BBC like that -- I view it as a broad spectrum service provider and, as such, view the license fee as a social tax.

I don't have kids, but I don't expect to be exempted from whatever portion of my income tax and/or council tax goes on education and the upkeep of schools. In the same way, I don't listen to Radio One, but I don't object to the fact that part of my license fee pays for it.

I feel very strongly that the BBC is a very important part of what makes Britain, well, British, and I'm prepared, happy even, to pay for that. If someone could come up with a better way of funding it that didn't sacrifice its public service ethos then I'd happily consider it, but I've yet to hear such a suggestion.

... To which I'd only add: yes, you're right. The current anti-BBC sentiment is largely being manufactured by the Murdoch empire. They know that internet/IP TV will kill free-to-air commercial TV in the next few years so, if they want to grow, the only place they can pick up market share is from the BBC. Just this morning, I heard some media type espousing the view that the BBC should concentrate on news and education and "leave entertainment and sport to the commercial channels" ...

This is dangerous talk: in the very near future, there will only be subscription TV*, and the BBC will be the only real competition to Sky. Nobody wants to say this out loud, but Murdoch knows it and is getting his retaliation in first, to coin a phrase.

Cheers!

Jim

*Plus a la carte: if TV companies could be persuaded to review their pricing policy and stop simply dividing the cost of a DVD box set by 22 and charging that per episode on iTunes, then you could realistically dispense with a broadcast service altogether and buy your TV by the episode. Unless or until they do, this option will never realize its full potential.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Colin YNWA 14 January, 2010, 09:24:42 AM
One aspect of this that frustrates me is that the BBCs coverage of its only problems. Due to its unerring commitment to present news in as unbiased way as possible it reports the crap slung at it with the same open honest way it does other news. In fact if anything they do it with more gusto just to emphasize how unbiased its being.

The trouble with this is the people attacking it, namely Murdoch and co, the commercial channels, the paper media and politicians from both sides who also see the BBC as biased against their side (God will they look at that both sides bleating about the BBC not representing them fairly. I mean it doesn't take a genius to work out what that probably says about their political coverage.) don't feel any such compunction to be honest.

Hence no bugger defends the BBC with any conviction in the mass media even themselves! Leading to it being very easy to come away with the impression that the BBC must be doing something wrong.

The BBC has done a fantastic job developing with new media and outlets. Just look at the excellent way they have exploited the internet and digital radio. Christ the existence of a website as fantastic as the BBCs used to be before they had to cut it back to try to save money was in itself worth the bloody poxy licence fee. As far as I'm concerned they could double the license fee and I'd still be happy. No its not perfect, not by any stretch but its a damned sight better than the rest!

The BBC is bloody wonderful and something this country should be very proud of. Its about time more of us stood up and said it.

Christ sorry for the rant, I'm trying to stick to topics that are comics related (or at least nerd related) when I come here these days but God this is something I really care about!
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Richmond Clements 14 January, 2010, 09:41:52 AM
Worth it for this alone: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00lbpcy
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Dandontdare 14 January, 2010, 09:47:17 AM
because of the slanted nature of a large amount of its climate change bias

Tsk yes, they do have a pesky bias in favour of SCIENCE over paranoid conspiracy theories. Bastards!
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Buddy 14 January, 2010, 11:43:35 AM
I have never had a problem with paying the TV license.

I do resent the inflated wage of so called BBC 'stars'.

Is anyone really worth £Xmillion contract for appearing on tv for a few hours a week and maybe a radio show or two?

Jonathan Ross, Graham Norton spring to mind, and although I do find them entertaining at times I really wouldn't be fussed if I never seen them on BBC tv again.

Throw in the cast of Eastenders and their massive pay packets and it's enough to make my head hurt!

And I know I don't have to watch Eastenders but I DO have to pay the fee.

BBC make great programmes but they also continue to make really, really shit ones too. Eastenders, Casualty, Holby Bollix ect... so called 'drama'... they are all just pure pish.

I hardly watch TV these days due to the fact there isn't much worth watching, I'll usually set the digital recorder to record stuff over a period of time and just watch that when I have the time to actually sit undisturbed to watch it.

So, in a nutshell.... less shit programmes BBC, more quality..
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Mikey 14 January, 2010, 11:45:56 AM
I agree with all the positive vibes for Auntie - I'll give the Beeb a vote, no problem, especially for BBC4 (the new BBC 2!), the radio channels, Radio Ulster News + Gerry Anderson! There's plenty of choice I reckon, although I agree with Buddy on the quality issue for some of it.

they do have a pesky bias in favour of SCIENCE over paranoid conspiracy theories.

Dan, step away from the rational, it'll do you no good here  ;)
M.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Richmond Clements 14 January, 2010, 11:55:27 AM
Radio Ulster News + Gerry Anderson

Along with soda bread (which I can occasionally get in Tesco) they're among the few things I miss from NI!
Although I do get Gerry on the iplay every now and then when I remember...
: Re: The Big British Castle
: uncle fester 14 January, 2010, 11:58:57 AM
The Beeb generally just have a higher standard of program making. News reporting, documentaries, iPlayer, radio and everything else that others have mentioned already. The phoneline thing was their only real mistake. Griffin was shown up to be the evil misguided leech that he is. Job done. The Ross/Brand thing was just two pillocks digging their own grave with no outside help. Good riddance.

Even the crap stuff is better than their rivals crap stuff. Happy to pay the licence here.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: uncle fester 14 January, 2010, 11:59:49 AM
Along with soda bread (which I can occasionally get in Tesco) they're among the few things I miss from NI!

Sainsburys do quite a nice one if you've got one nearby.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Richmond Clements 14 January, 2010, 12:03:27 PM
Along with soda bread (which I can occasionally get in Tesco) they're among the few things I miss from NI!

Sainsburys do quite a nice one if you've got one nearby.

Just checked the store locator on their site, and the nearest one to us is 105 miles away!
: Re: The Big British Castle
: radiator 14 January, 2010, 12:04:48 PM
Is anyone really worth £Xmillion contract for appearing on tv for a few hours a week and maybe a radio show or two?

No, and to some extent it is ludicrous how much these people are paid, but then the BBC has to be competitive with the commercial sector - if it doesn't pay enough, it won't attract the big names. I have a feeling that those big multi-million pound deals are hugely exaggerated by the media - taking Ross as an example - how much of his contract is tied into his production company, staff and the like? I suspect that he never sees most of that dosh. Soap stars are overpaid , true, but at least they work hard for their money.

Regardless, I suspect that this culture of excess in showbiz will be a thing of the past in years to come - the upheaval caused by the new media will level the playing field a bit and make wages much more realistic.

: Re: The Big British Castle
: Mikey 14 January, 2010, 12:37:18 PM
among the few things I miss from NI!

Surely not! Look at the great scandal we're having...

There's a new 'Anderson extra', basically highlights of the previous week, on at 7.30pm Mondays. And I had soda for breakfast! From a bakery, natch.

On topic...I really don't care how much they're paid to be honest. It's the entertainment industry, so if what they do isn't pulling in the punters, generally speaking they'll be off the payroll surely? See Gerry Anderson; he can be,er, an aquired taste for some but I imagine he has good listener figures for a mid morning show.

M.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Richmond Clements 14 January, 2010, 12:40:00 PM
Surely not! Look at the great scandal we're having...

Good fun, innit?
I'm enjoying the BBC NI messageboard at the moment. Whcih is, come to think about it, another thing I don't mind paying for.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Dandontdare 14 January, 2010, 01:05:40 PM
I've only just worked out that we're not talking about the Thunderbirds guy... ::)
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Tiplodocus 14 January, 2010, 01:09:01 PM
We pick up some of Channel 4s output (mainly to catch Simpsons or InBetweeners or the odd film) and a bit of Virgin (Yay for Star Trek) but other than that, it's all BBC for us.  

We barely ever touch the ITV button (Primeval excepted) it's just a loathsome channel (particulary STV).

Well worth paying for - especially as you know that the News and Documentary output is actually more likely to be News and Documentary output as opposed to "Celebrity Big Brother" (really, how do they get away with classifying this as factual output?)  and "World's Fattest Paedophile"
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Peter Wolf 14 January, 2010, 01:27:35 PM
I agree with all the positive vibes for Auntie - I'll give the Beeb a vote, no problem, especially for BBC4 (the new BBC 2!), the radio channels, Radio Ulster News + Gerry Anderson! There's plenty of choice I reckon, although I agree with Buddy on the quality issue for some of it.

they do have a pesky bias in favour of SCIENCE over paranoid conspiracy theories.

Dan, step away from the rational, it'll do you no good here  ;)
M.

 :lol:

Let me know when you decide to start acting like intelligent adults and i will debate the topic with you but not until.

In your own time of course.........

*

Like others have said and despite my grievances [which i might add are geniune and shared by millions of others] it is still value for money and the standards of the BBC generally speaking are head and shoulders above the commercial competition and there is something for everyone and i have found some very worthwhile material on it .

Any organisation is only as good as those who manage it and work in it so for the purposes of objectivity this is my opinion but i do feel that standards have slipped a bit since 2003.

: Re: The Big British Castle
: Trout 14 January, 2010, 01:35:29 PM
Burn the BBC. Destroy it. Tear it down.

It uses public money to compete with commercial organisations. Its public service mandate is decades out of date and I'm convinced that many of the benefits it brings could be guaranteed by imposing legal regulations - through the franchise process - on commercial broadcasters.

Shut it down.

- Trout
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Mikey 14 January, 2010, 01:37:40 PM
See that ITV? I changed the channel name to 'Shite' on my TV. Although, just occasionally, I do enjoy the jingo of 'World's fattest peado' type stuff.

M.

Edit to add - Peter, no need to be condescending. I could go for a long winded reply, but I thought you would take the comment as intended i.e. lighthearted. I'll know again.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Jim_Campbell 14 January, 2010, 01:44:25 PM
I'm convinced that many of the benefits it brings could be guaranteed by imposing legal regulations - through the franchise process - on commercial broadcasters.

Did you miss the part where the commercial free-to-air business model is dead on its feet? Kill the BBC and you'll end up with Sky. That's it. If you think the nation wouldn't be poorer under that scenario, you're wrong in the head!

Cheers

Jim
: Re: The Big British Castle
: radiator 14 January, 2010, 01:44:58 PM
We barely ever touch the ITV button (Primeval excepted) it's just a loathsome channel (particulary STV).

The only thing I watch on ITV is TV Burp (which itself suffers from having to cover an inordinate amount of tedious ITV programmes!) , and apparently Harry Hill is upping sticks from the channel very soon.

many of the benefits it brings could be guaranteed by imposing legal regulations - through the franchise process - on commercial broadcasters.

I suspect you're being contrary to fire debate - but I'll bite. Couldn't disagree more - it would be a disaster. With respect to American TV (they do produce the best dramatic TV in the world) but watch X Factor, really watch it. See how gaudy it is. Everything about it - especially the US style insanely quick editing, the constant repetition, the frequent, long ad breaks -  that's what all TV shows will be like in a few years time if the BBC goes belly up.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: bluemeanie 14 January, 2010, 02:00:53 PM
I'd drop the BBC like a hot turd. In the days of 3 channels it had a point. Now it doesnt.

only things I use the bbc for?

Doctor Who - Well if the BBC shut or went commercial we'd only get MORE Doctor Who because it is popular and would make money. Plus the budgets would reflect the revenues it makes and it would get better.

Mock the Week - For Frankie Boyle... oh, he's gone because the BBC are too scared of complaint letters from blue rinse ladies. So dont watch that any more

Jonathan Ross on Radio 2 and the Film show - kaput.

Seriously, dont think there is a single other thing I watch on the BBC now. And the stuff I have done like Mighty Boosh and League of Gentlemen I buy on dvd anyway and while they did start on BBC both were established live acts anyway who would have popped up on some other station if not.

Oh, I take it back - The Thick of It. Thats a BBC3 show. Love it enough that again I bought the dvd's. Still think in a non BBC world it would have found a home
: Re: The Big British Castle
: radiator 14 January, 2010, 02:14:44 PM
Oh, I take it back - The Thick of It. Thats a BBC3 show. Love it enough that again I bought the dvd's. Still think in a non BBC world it would have found a home

I sincerely doubt it. The BBC has a long tradition of nurturing talent - pretty much all the shows you mention began life on Radio 4, where their writers and performers honed their skills before graduating on to TV. Even The Thick Of It has it's roots in On the Hour - the early incarnation of The Day Today. Would any other broadcaster take a chance on the likes of Chris Morris or Armando Ianucci? No BBC = No BrassEye, No Alan Partridge, No The Thick Of It - simple as that.

Maybe some of these talents would have found a way onto the screen regardless - but there's no way on earth we'd have such a polished, high quality end product.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Dandontdare 14 January, 2010, 02:29:09 PM
only things I use the bbc for?

The point about the BBC is that it's not just about what YOU (or any individual or group) use it for. Listeners of radio 1 are unlikely to listen to radio 3; people who need the shipping forecast may not care about Match of the Day; fans of the mighty Boosh are unlikely to watch Songs of Praise.

The brilliant thing about the BBC is that produces a huge range of different services, on TV and radio, at local, national and international level, everything from kids telly to sport to comedy to drama to news and documentaries, not to mention the diverse raft of radio stations. No commercial broadcaster would do all this. Without the beeb we'd end up with dozens of channels competing for the popular and marketable things, such as comedy and drama, with tiny underfunded niche channels producing more specialist content, and then all the vital public seervices such as the shiping forecast would end up being government subsidised anyway. We'd have hundreds of channels of identical, middle-of-the-road crowd-pleasing shite.

Oh and the joy of watching telly without adverts! (apart form the ever-multiplying in-house ads for other programmes - but at least they don't interrupt a film a dozen times with these!)

I think it's days are sadly numbered, but we'll only appreciate what a fantastic thing it is once it's gone.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: bluemeanie 14 January, 2010, 02:32:52 PM
Possibly. I dunno. I think if there were no BBC something would come up to take its place. I just feel that high quality stuff should be self sustaining and not need subsidising.
Make the BBC channels a premium package. If you want it, you pay for it like you would Sky Sports. If you dont, you shouldnt HAVE to.
For the hour, if that, I watch a week I resent paying money to keep Eastenders, Top Gear and Fame Academy on the air. The BBC seems to think its like the Health Service or something. Its not essential, its entertainment. If it cant self sustain it should die off.
You know.. like ballet  (but dont tell the wife I said that)   :P

And on Dan's note (forum just told me he posted as I was typing this) - if I'M being asked to pay for a tv channel then it IS about me. I dont pay for sky sports, I dont watch sport. It would be stupid to ask me to. Whats the difference with the BBC? I watch the BBC sometimes because its there. If Sky Sports was free I'd probably watch the odd football game if Cardiff were playing as well. If I was told I could keep the money and not be able to get the BBC I would.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Jim_Campbell 14 January, 2010, 02:41:53 PM

For the hour, if that, I watch a week I resent paying money to keep Eastenders, Top Gear and Fame Academy on the air. The BBC seems to think its like the Health Service or something. Its not essential, its entertainment.

But it's not just entertainment, is it? It performs educational services, community services. Why do you think all the commercial TV stations abandoned local news programming as soon they were no longer mandated to provide it by the terms of their license? Because it costs a fortune and there's no return in it.

As I said at the top of this thread, I absolutely view the license fee as a social tax: the BBC is part of the fabric of what makes Britain the nation it is and insisting that you should only have to pay for the bits of it that interest you is incredibly short-sighted.

Cheers

Jim
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Peter Wolf 14 January, 2010, 02:58:09 PM
See that ITV? I changed the channel name to 'Shite' on my TV. Although, just occasionally, I do enjoy the jingo of 'World's fattest peado' type stuff.

M.

Edit to add - Peter, no need to be condescending. I could go for a long winded reply, but I thought you would take the comment as intended i.e. lighthearted. I'll know again.

My comment was a reply to your reply to DDD which came across as a loaded comment rather than a lighthearted comment.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Richmond Clements 14 January, 2010, 03:00:38 PM
I resent paying money to keep Eastenders, Top Gear and Fame Academy on the air

Good news! You're not!
Fame Academt hasn't been on for what, 10 years? ANd the other two make their money back easily with overseas sales. In fact like it or hate it, Top Gear is one of the most watched- if not the number one- television progarammes in the world. It makes a fortune for the BBC- so rest easy!
: Re: The Big British Castle
: radiator 14 January, 2010, 03:01:35 PM
I resent paying money to keep Eastenders, Top Gear and Fame Academy on the air.

Isn't that like splitting the bill at a restaurant, and complaining because you didn't lke what everyone else was eating?
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Mikey 14 January, 2010, 03:19:29 PM
Now asking me if I would pay for a BBC package, the Mikey household would, so I can see the merits of having it as an option so those that don't like it for whatever reason don't have to stump up the cash. But then it wouldn't be the BBC would it?

The BBC has been responsible for some fantastic tv, particularly the Natural History Unit as far as I'm concerned. A lot of people maybe don't really give a monkeys about them, but their flagship nature docs (and others) are usually excellent.

PS - Peter, glad I could clear that up. Reading over my post, I can see how that came across; in my head it sounded different ::) Rest assured, if I wanted to have a pop at you I would do it up front!   
: Re: The Big British Castle
: radiator 14 January, 2010, 03:29:51 PM
It's also worth pointing out that the BBC are pretty much the only UK broadcaster still making decent homegrown kid's TV.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: bluemeanie 14 January, 2010, 03:31:55 PM
But it's not just entertainment, is it? It performs educational services, community services. Why do you think all the commercial TV stations abandoned local news programming as soon they were no longer mandated to provide it by the terms of their license?

Then the licence fee should be halved and the BBC should be just that. Educational and informative broadcasting. No need for soap operas or game shows or drama or any of the other expensive "light entertainment" type shows with celebrity hosts that commercial television has in abundance.
They have half the money but dont have to compete for ratings, as they seem compelled to do, and the so called public service end of the BBC could be 20 times better than it is now. But no, we still need to afford Davina to front "So you think you can dance"

Or in other words, drop BBC1.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Dandontdare 14 January, 2010, 03:33:50 PM
But no, we still need to afford Davina to front "So you think you can dance"

errm - that's on Sky 1
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Peter Wolf 14 January, 2010, 03:40:38 PM
I get the impression after reading a lot of comments elsewhere regarding the licence fee which some see as something akin to the Poll Tax is purely economical because they claim that if the BBC didnt exist then they would be 120 or 150 quid or however much it costs a year better off so everytime you have an incident like the Ross/Brand incident it adds fuel to their argument because they are incensed that they are effectively paying for them to behave like that.

Another of the incensed and righteously indignant Daily Mail readers arguments is how they are paying for Ross's huge BBC salary so you have an argument against the existance of the BBC that is basically based on envy.

I find those kinds of arguments against it to be petty minded.They have a point but their arguments are rather simplistic.

Its a difficult subject with no easy answer but i do not see why the BBC doesnt have a right to exist as the only publically funded or state owned broadcasting company just because all of its competition is commercial and the way i see it is its not directly competing with any commercial sector channel because what it offers is unique in comparison so its more accurate to say that the BBC exists alongside the commercial sector.

Another point is its a huge bereaucratic organisation and like any huge bereaucratic organisation like govt you will find that there is a lot of cash that is squandered.i dont have any actual figures or what departments are wasting money but its pretty much a given that it goes on.The wastage of cash being eaten up in the running of it rather than the programming itself.

: Re: The Big British Castle
: Jim_Campbell 14 January, 2010, 03:41:05 PM

Then the licence fee should be halved and the BBC should be just that. Educational and informative broadcasting. No need for soap operas or game shows or drama or any of the other expensive "light entertainment" type shows with celebrity hosts that commercial television has in abundance.

The idea that commercial TV is in trouble because the BBC is stealing audience share unfairly from the free-to-air (FTA) commercial channels is a myth propagated somewhat disingenuously by the BBC's opponents. FTA commercial TV is in trouble because people don't want to consume TV that way any more. Between downloading and time-shifting, you can avoid adverts almost entirely ... and people will be doing this in ever-increasing numbers. Commercial TV is dead as an advertising platform, meaning that the only business model left for TV is subscription.

If there's no commercial FTA TV, and the BBC is only allowed to make factual/educational content, then all the entertainment, drama and sport goes to Sky, which is pretty much exactly what Murdoch wants.

Strangely, however, it's not what I want.

Cheers

Jim
: Re: The Big British Castle
: bluemeanie 14 January, 2010, 04:02:39 PM
I just hate having to pay money to the bbc for what they call a public service and then seeing jamie f*cking oliver and the nice big house he has for being a mockney twat whilst stuffing chickens and grinning at the camera.
News, weather.. yeah, I can see how that is public service broadcasting, even if americans have news and weather channels that dont seem to need public funding.
But 90% of what is on BBC is no better than commercial tv so doesnt deserve the "listed building" status the BBC as a whole seems to enjoy.


I miss LIVE TV, why couldnt that be subsidised to keep going? The weather was read by a frigging midget on a trampoline and the girl doing the financial report took her kit off!   ;)
: Re: The Big British Castle
: bluemeanie 14 January, 2010, 04:06:08 PM
I resent paying money to keep Eastenders, Top Gear and Fame Academy on the air.

Isn't that like splitting the bill at a restaurant, and complaining because you didn't lke what everyone else was eating?

Only if I had a breadstick that accounted for 1% of the bill and everyone else had steak and champagne

It is because I only watch an hour or two of BBC a week, if that, that it smarts a bit to be told I have to pay for it. I watch music channels a fair bit as background, I pay for them, Im happy to do so.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Richmond Clements 14 January, 2010, 04:08:10 PM
I just hate having to pay money to the bbc for what they call a public service and then seeing jamie f*cking oliver and the nice big house he has for being a mockney twat whilst stuffing chickens and grinning at the camera.

Lucky he's on Channel Four then!
: Re: The Big British Castle
: bluemeanie 14 January, 2010, 04:09:08 PM
But no, we still need to afford Davina to front "So you think you can dance"

errm - that's on Sky 1

yeah? crap!   :lol:

ah well , just substitite (checks todays tv listings) Antiques roadshow, Great British Train Journeys, Cash in the Attic, Bargain Hunt, Wanted Down Under, The Weakest Link etc etc
Not exactly open university is it?
: Re: The Big British Castle
: bluemeanie 14 January, 2010, 04:10:28 PM
I just hate having to pay money to the bbc for what they call a public service and then seeing jamie f*cking oliver and the nice big house he has for being a mockney twat whilst stuffing chickens and grinning at the camera.

Lucky he's on Channel Four then!

You have no idea how glad I am I didnt know that mate  :)
Really tho, thought he was BBC2
Ah well, live and learn. Shows ya how much tv I dont watch
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Trout 14 January, 2010, 04:26:10 PM
Sorry, folks. Not being deliberately controversial - it's an issue I have strong opinions on. I'll post properly when I have more time. Hesitated to post at all before! Very busy couple of days.

- Trout
: Re: The Big British Castle
: bluemeanie 14 January, 2010, 04:32:49 PM
Check it out.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20100114/tuk-uk-britain-bbc-future-fa6b408.html

Kinda what I was trying to partially say but not very well  :-\
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Jim_Campbell 14 January, 2010, 04:48:38 PM
Check it out.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20100114/tuk-uk-britain-bbc-future-fa6b408.html

Kinda what I was trying to partially say but not very well  :-\

Yeah, but it perpetrates the lie I've already addressed:

"Other commercial channels would deliver those U.S.-style entertainment shows that appeal to mass audiences anyway, it said."

They won't. They really won't, because they won't be able to stay in business using their current model. There's a reason why the commercial TV companies are all angling for a slice of the license fee: they know that the advertising revenue model has no future.

They know that they can't do anything that the BBC can't also do, so instead they turn the argument on its head and insist that the BBC should only do the things that they can't. Well, if ITV ends up receiving a chunk of the license fee to shore up dwindling ad revenues, why not just call it BBC5? At the same time, why shouldn't entertainment be part of a public service remit?

To be honest, with the commercial channels failing, it becomes incumbent on the BBC to provide the broadest range of output possible!

Cheers

Jim
: Re: The Big British Castle
: radiator 14 January, 2010, 04:51:01 PM
Isn't the guy that wrote that report an ex-Sky exec?
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Proudhuff 14 January, 2010, 04:55:46 PM
I happily pays me money, A tenner a month for my TV and Radio, cheers!  I hate hate hate adverts, especially on the radio, I seldom watch ITV especailly the scottish bits. ( having said that I seldom wacth or listen to the JOck bits of of the BBC as its only ever Football)
News Bias? Fox news anyone GRRRRRR!
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Tanky 14 January, 2010, 05:15:33 PM
I haven't had a telly since moving into my current house about 6 months ago and I don't miss it one jot. In fact, I think not having a telly is right up there in my list of Best Things Of Last Year. I didn't have three months of Christmas advertising shoved in my face and had a much nicer time than usual. I've generally been a much happier individual since getting shot of it. I s'pose it just goes to show how much of the Absolute Bollocks involved in modern life is in fact the fault of the media.

Having said that, I am looking forward to downloading new Lost, until such a time as I can complete my dvd collection  :D

I too could've put this better but I have things to do x
: Re: The Big British Castle
: TordelBack 14 January, 2010, 05:28:32 PM
Said it before and I'll say it again:  I don't live in Britain but I'd pay the BBC license fee in a heartbeat:  Radio 4, CBeebies, David Attenbrough, The Sky At Night, Country File, Jeremy Paxman, no bloody ads for self-esteem-destroying dreck, feck it even Top Gear is fun to watch.  The reality competition crap how fat-is-your-anus stuff I just don't watch - but the cream makes up for it.  It's about the only flat tax I endorse, even if I barely watch TV any more.

Perhaps naysayers just don't realise how utterly crap TV in  the rest of the world actually is, perhaps imagining it to be wall-to-wall The Wire and Deadwood.  Honestly,  I believe if you had to pay the Irish licence fee (€160!) for the unmitigated shite that is Irish national broadcasting, which still includes ads on every channel BTW, you'd be begging Auntie to let you pay her.   Even our radio is crap, with an apparent policy of identifying anyone with a shred of talent or charm and either firing them or relegating them to 5.30am n a Sunday or illness cover.

EDIT:  Actually, the €16-odd of that fee that goes to TG4, the Irish language channel, is well spent.  Everything else, every smug moronic minute of it, is the cold sick of the TV world.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Professor Bear 14 January, 2010, 05:54:12 PM
Can we all at least agree that the steaming pile of shite that is Channel 4 should be burned away with cleansing fire?

I don't support the licence fee for the simple reason that there's no 'opt-out' option.  You pay even if you don't have a telly or an aerial, otherwise you can look forward to the inspectors visiting you quite often with some variation of "Oh, the last person who visited you mustn't have put down your details - just ignore the letters that will still come and continue to let strangers into your home at a moment's notice every month or so to confirm what six other people have confirmed already."
: Re: The Big British Castle
: SamuelAWilkinson 14 January, 2010, 06:02:36 PM
But it's not just entertainment, is it? It performs educational services, community services. Why do you think all the commercial TV stations abandoned local news programming as soon they were no longer mandated to provide it by the terms of their license?

Then the licence fee should be halved and the BBC should be just that. Educational and informative broadcasting. No need for soap operas or game shows or drama or any of the other expensive "light entertainment" type shows with celebrity hosts that commercial television has in abundance.
They have half the money but dont have to compete for ratings, as they seem compelled to do, and the so called public service end of the BBC could be 20 times better than it is now. But no, we still need to afford Davina to front "So you think you can dance"

Or in other words, drop BBC1.

The reason there's so much light ent on nowadays is because it costs peanuts but it still looks sparkly enough to draw in the channel-flicking masses. And of course the reason Auntie does it is because everyone else does, and she's caught between those who want her to stay competitive with the commercial channels (in order to provide licence fee value for money) and those who think she should be well out. Like when your girlfriend asks if her arse is fat and you take too long to answer, the Beeb's in trouble either way.

Well, if ITV ends up receiving a chunk of the license fee to shore up dwindling ad revenues, why not just call it BBC5? At the same time, why shouldn't entertainment be part of a public service remit?

ITV aren't after a chunk of licence fee for ad revenue purposes, they're doing fine (he said, sucking up to his corporate masters. Please don't fire me for posting on here at work!). What they want is money to fulfil their regional news obligations required by their licence (which are something of an anachronism in the modern day, bearing in mind that the added worth of ITV's expensive terrestrial licence grows smaller each day (that wasn't corporate sucking up, I really think that)).

Also, entertainment is part of the BBC's remit; Lord Reith's "inform, educate and entertain" remains their central tenet.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: JOE SOAP 14 January, 2010, 06:17:33 PM

EDIT:  Actually, the €16-odd of that fee that goes to TG4, the Irish language channel, is well spent.  Everything else, every smug moronic minute of it, is the cold sick of the TV world.

That's another illusion TB, most of TG4 output is bought in from other countries and consists of redubbed docs, old movies, children's TV plus HBO series that would end up otherwise on late night RTE2. The small amount of stuff they do make, some is worthy but not all and I've seen much crap - seriously, do you consider Feirm Factor, Glas Vegas, diddly-i & showband sessions, Pimp My Ride any better than RTE?. Their identity promos look good but the vast majority of everyday TG4 schedule is not home produced, I'd say 70% percent is bought in. The TG4 myth is bullshit and it's viewership is shrinking with less than 50,000, about 2 viewers in every 100 at their highest. The most popular programmes are in English and sport. Many who say that TG4 is "great" rarely, if ever, watch its Irish-language programmes.

I actually see no reason why a country of 4 million people needs 3 state broadcast channels anyway. They should bring the license fee down, reduce it to 2 channels again and absorb TG4 programming into RTE2 and have it as bilingual or full Irish, it doesn't really matter but we don't need 3 state channels. Half of RTE2 is dead air anyway but if you do an honest count amongst the crap, RTE still shows a higher proportion of better, more watched programming than TG4.  RTE  needs to hire the better talent, stop paying way over the odds for independent programming (which is where a lot of the crap lifestyle shows come from) and reduce the management structure.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Peter Wolf 14 January, 2010, 06:32:37 PM
Can we all at least agree that the steaming pile of shite that is Channel 4 should be burned away with cleansing fire?

I don't support the licence fee for the simple reason that there's no 'opt-out' option.  You pay even if you don't have a telly or an aerial, otherwise you can look forward to the inspectors visiting you quite often with some variation of "Oh, the last person who visited you mustn't have put down your details - just ignore the letters that will still come and continue to let strangers into your home at a moment's notice every month or so to confirm what six other people have confirmed already."

You are absolutely right about CH4 but it never used to be that way as it was a good channel once upon a time but now its just inane drivel.

BTW TV licence inspectors have no actual right of entry and letting them in is at your disgression .
: Re: The Big British Castle
: radiator 14 January, 2010, 06:51:12 PM
A special treat for those who missed it.... Skip to 5:38 and feel the rage wash over you......

COTTON/GELDOF:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBbcbYyl6bA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBbcbYyl6bA)
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Colin YNWA 14 January, 2010, 07:08:29 PM
At the same time, why shouldn't entertainment be part of a public service remit?

Pretty fine point. Particularly when the revenue from entertainment is channeled to supporting the continuing chopped main income. Not that entertainment in and of itself isn't of value. With the BBC however due to its charter there will always be a balance. A commerical channel of whatever nature will always be motivated by what makes the most money and hence you will get reduced diversity.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Professor Bear 14 January, 2010, 07:53:42 PM
A special treat for those who missed it.... Skip to 5:38 and feel the rage wash over you......

COTTON/GELDOF:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBbcbYyl6bA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBbcbYyl6bA)

I don't feel any particular bile towards either Geldof or Cotton, more pity that they're indulged to the extent they'll never know any better and hold themselves to such low personal standards.  Any bile I have is reserved for those paying them to be onscreen, and I'd argue there's more merit in paying homeless people to fight and then filming that - because some people will be entertained, some will not, some will ponder what such a programme suggests about the human condition, a homeless dude will have some money in his pocket and the world will not have changed in the slightest.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Jim_Campbell 14 January, 2010, 08:04:57 PM
I don't support the licence fee for the simple reason that there's no 'opt-out' option.  You pay even if you don't have a telly or an aerial

Nonsense. They'll try to tell you that still have to pay if you have an internet connection, as they just have with a friend of mine, but it's not true and you most definitely do NOT have to pay if you don't have a TV.

Cheers

Jim
: Re: The Big British Castle
: JOE SOAP 14 January, 2010, 08:10:50 PM
I believe there are draft legislations in Ireland & Britain that include web accessing technologies where TV programming can be accessed online for future licensing.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: TordelBack 14 January, 2010, 08:34:25 PM
...most of TG4 output is bought in from other countries and consists of redubbed docs, old movies, children's TV plus HBO series that would end up otherwise on late night RTE2.

Agreed, but the fact remains that I watch a lot more movies and cartoons on TG4 than I ever do on RTE - and a lot more foreign language stuff than Irish.  I also have the trad music shows on a lot while I work, and of the Irish language stuff I've enjoyed the sailing and hiking programmes, and my Irish is virtually non-existant.  I watch bugger-all TV, and less Irish TV than anything else, but TG4 holds my attention better than most, in between My Super Sweet 16 and One Tree Hill.  However, I'd have no problem seeing it merged back into RTE2, as long as nothing of RTE2 remained.  And if I ever see Pat Kenny or Ryan Tubirdy again i'll be way too soon.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Zarjazzer 14 January, 2010, 09:18:12 PM
Rupert Murdoch and the little cheerleaders that work for his rotten rags have a vested interest in destroying any competition.Be it the Beeb (nice easy target for their free market bleatings) or anyone else. Less competition means bigger market share and hopefully (from their view) more profits for their corporate shareholders. So much for market diversity and other crap I've heard from economic liberals over the years. What free markets would really mean is ONE person owning all the media.

And that persons name? A Mister R.Murdoch of where? Oh yes he's a citizen of the globalised world as he sold his nationality for mammon.

Oh and those paid up liberal "journalists and broadcasters"  failed to spot the biggest story of the decade namely the utter collapse of the blessed fucking market of which their masters are such blinkered fans.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: JOE SOAP 14 January, 2010, 09:24:54 PM
...most of TG4 output is bought in from other countries and consists of redubbed docs, old movies, children's TV plus HBO series that would end up otherwise on late night RTE2.

Agreed, but the fact remains that I watch a lot more movies and cartoons on TG4 than I ever do on RTE - and a lot more foreign language stuff than Irish.  I also have the trad music shows on a lot while I work, and of the Irish language stuff I've enjoyed the sailing and hiking programmes, and my Irish is virtually non-existant.  I watch bugger-all TV, and less Irish TV than anything else, but TG4 holds my attention better than most, in between My Super Sweet 16 and One Tree Hill.  However, I'd have no problem seeing it merged back into RTE2, as long as nothing of RTE2 remained.  And if I ever see Pat Kenny or Ryan Tubirdy again i'll be way too soon.

agreed but they should dump the pretence of it being a true Irish language station when it was just a lobbying point for politicians in the west.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: IAMTHESYSTEM 14 January, 2010, 09:34:42 PM
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg86/ToadyCat/sci%20fi/thumbnail.jpg)

Says it all really.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Robin Low 14 January, 2010, 10:42:24 PM
Someone's probably already said it, but...

39 pence per day.


Regards

Robin
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Jim_Campbell 14 January, 2010, 10:48:23 PM
39 pence per day.

It's terribly British isn't it? We have a broadcasting service that is genuinely the envy of the entire world, the broadcasting standard by which every other broadcaster on the planet is judged, and we moan because per household it costs less than a pint of beer per month.

Cheers!

Jim
: Re: The Big British Castle
: maryanddavid 14 January, 2010, 11:22:45 PM
As someone whose kids watch Cbeebies and I watch a lot of the documentaries, and Top Gear sometimes which is always great fun, is well worth the licence fee if I was in the UK.

They should bring the license fee down, reduce it to 2 channels again and absorb TG4 programming into RTE2 and have it as bilingual or full Irish, it doesn't really matter but we don't need 3 state channels. Half of RTE2 is dead air anyway but if you do an honest count amongst the crap, RTE still shows a higher proportion of better, more watched programming than TG4.  RTE  needs to hire the better talent, stop paying way over the odds for independent programming (which is where a lot of the crap lifestyle shows come from) and reduce the management structure.

Personally, I think you are all down on RTE, I have had this arguement before, the licence fee, which is expensive, but from 4 odd million people, is feic all money. This goes to pay for all GAA games, which have a massive viewership, likewise the Soccer and Rugby in which they have to go up against Sky for the rights to show.

Between RTE and TG4 most of  the top American dramas (like Lost and True Blood etc) are usually shown on Irish television before they are aired in the UK. The reason apparently is that Ireland is a small english speaking market, they give the programmes to RTE, see what the ratings are and then charge the UK market accordingly.

Most of the prime time popular programmes are popular with a lot of people, I dont watch Fair City, not my cup of tea, neither is Eastenders.  The all Ireland Talent show, I like. It is a bit Parish Hall, but thats why I like it. It not Xfactor, its ordinary people from any little half parish on the telly. Nationwide is the same, It serves a purpose, and gives local places a voice on the telly that on commercial television they would never get a chance.

RTE news  is great, its as good as anything in the UK, and certainly better than most American news I've seen.

The heavy hitters that are paid large amounts(which pale in regard to UK pay) Pat Kenny, a great Political interviewer, his arrogance annoys me, and whoever thought he was a good choice for the Late Late should be ashamed.
 Tubridy, can't stand his Radio show, but he has been a breath of fresh air to the Late Late, which I now actually watch some of.
Gerry Ryan was a bit of fresh air on the radio at first, still not too bad, but that was twenty years ago, crap on the telly.
Marian Finucan, two days on the weekend, good program, that amount of money? Why?
Eamon Dunphy, worth every bit, loose cannon, eejit, but  RTE would be a poorer place without him.

IMO the point of public service broadcasting is to provide television for everyone which is an impossible task. The next time you see a doc on recovering drug addicts with nuns in a farm in Meath, or a guy with  a camcorder and a gas griddle walking from Co.Derry to Co. Kerry across the mountains. He then went the Bedouin in North Africa all in Gaelic. Are these programmes going to appear on Sky or TV3? Not a hope.

Hanyhoo, thats my opinion on RTE, and the BEEB is good too.

David

: Re: The Big British Castle
: bluemeanie 14 January, 2010, 11:48:19 PM
It's terribly British isn't it? We have a broadcasting service that is genuinely the envy of the entire world, the broadcasting standard by which every other broadcaster on the planet is judged, and we moan because per household it costs less than a pint of beer per month.

But I LIKE BEER! I choose to have it! Any argument with beer on one end of the scales is gonna be a loser with me mate
But to be honest, I dont live alone, I have a lovely wife type thing. If it was optional we probably would still have it as she watches a fair bit of TV and loves her costume dramas and stuff.
And I wouldnt begrudge it for a second. Shes chosen the BBC package. We are paying for it as we should.

Its purely the fact its enforced that pisses me off. Its not essential, I should be able to choose if I want it or not.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Professor Bear 15 January, 2010, 12:43:25 AM
it costs less than a pint of beer per month.

I don't know where you live, Jim, but you should move.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: JOE SOAP 15 January, 2010, 12:50:34 AM

Personally, I think you are all down on RTE, I have had this arguement before, the licence fee, which is expensive, but from 4 odd million people, is feic all money. This goes to pay for all GAA games, which have a massive viewership, likewise the Soccer and Rugby in which they have to go up against Sky for the rights to show.

I'm down on RTE for a reason, I work there as an editor and I see what's wrong with it from the inside and it's mostly from the top and middle. The people who are actually involved in making programmes are mostly talented, intelligent, hard working people making programmes on tiny budgets for around the average wage. The people at the top and middle who have no input in programmes (those that do are generally clueless or have personal agendas) are overpaid and could easily be chucked apart from accounts and the Director General. The viewership figures has remained steady but ouput should be better if the right people were fostering the right talent but unfortunately the Irish are a lazy lot when it comes to cleaning the shit out of the stables.

RTE's role has always been the archiving and documenting of our culture's past, present & future which is something the people need to be reminded of now again within and without the organization. It's not solely for entertainment and amusement.

A programme I worked editing mostly in the last few years has been "Scannal", an Irish language show that generally has an audience of 250,00 - 400,000 viewers, which is a lot more than the average 50,000 viewers TG4 gets on a good day, I just don't feel we should be propping up a third state channel for what is perceived to be in political circles culturally important when that is really RTE's job in the first place, that's why I propose going back to 2 channels, one Irish, one bilingual; it would save money.

As for the celebs, I don't feel any of them should be earning more than a €150,000 a year and in this economic climate their wages could easily be cut from the obscene amounts they are at now cos no one will be headhunting them, an excuse always given when it was suggested they earned too much. RTE holds the broadcasting power in the country so they know what side their bread is buttered.

: Re: The Big British Castle
: thinky 15 January, 2010, 08:10:25 AM
i moved to new zealand 12 months ago and i can tell you that i miss the bbc more than i can attempt to describe

the tv over here is a shockingly bad collection of uk reality tv, sub-par (or years old) american series' and kiwi and aussie "doco's" - the phrase 'you never know what you had until it was gone' is sadly apt

yes, there are wankers on it being paid inordinate sums of money for fuck-all meaningful or entertaining output, and it's impossible to enjoy and personally value *everthing* the bbc broadcasts, but the bits you do enjoy and - as others have pointed out - the social benefits that others get from it makes the bbc something to cherish and keep

and yes, i know i don't pay the licence fee here, but i'd pay it in an instant for a ramp-up in quality

thinky

: Re: The Big British Castle
: Jim_Campbell 15 January, 2010, 08:51:20 AM
I don't know where you live, Jim, but you should move.

Eek! Bad maths! That's a pint of beer per WEEK.

Curse my drunken typing ...

Cheers!

Jim
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Richmond Clements 15 January, 2010, 09:44:12 AM
Curse my drunken typing ...

That's cheap beer for you.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Old Tankie 15 January, 2010, 12:36:45 PM
Watching Jeremy Paxman regularly humiliate our corrupt political class is worth the licence fee on its own.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Mike Gloady 15 January, 2010, 04:00:12 PM
Agreed Tankie.

Interesting debate. 

I'm a regular viewer of BBCs 2 & 4 and listener of Radios 2, 4 & 6 (and watch/listen to the others a bit too).  It's a fine organisation and puts out a fair chunk of good material.  I used to be a bit of a basher and would use the likes of Holby/Eastenders/My Family as a stick to beat them with.  Of course, time has taught me the error of my ways and I'd take the Beeb's failings over Murdoch's any day.  Vile little crook.  I have bugger all money and the license fee is kind of pricey, but worth it.  Just look at the shite ITV, 5 and Sky make if you need proof.

Of course, now that Adam & Joe are on sabatical I predict the fall of the Big British Castle within weeks.  Hurry back, I'm having to listen to Johnathan Woss in the meantime and he's off soon too (totally understandably really). 
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Proudhuff 15 January, 2010, 04:39:42 PM
Compare and contrast...

British Telly  vs italian telly

BBC Vs Berlusconi Broadcasting Clowns
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Peter Wolf 15 January, 2010, 04:58:12 PM
A special treat for those who missed it.... Skip to 5:38 and feel the rage wash over you......

COTTON/GELDOF:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBbcbYyl6bA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBbcbYyl6bA)

That was just unbelievable.I watched the entire thing and i know that Charlie Brooker picked extreme examples but that clip really demonstrates what has gone wrong with television.

Just WTF was Torchwood all about ??

 :lol: :crazy: :thumbsdown: :o

Fucking unreal or completely surreal.Is it for children ??Not sure i would want my children watching that kind of material TBH.Thats not the kind of material that i am happy subsidising either.

If someone could dispose of John Barrowman in whatever way i would be very happy.The same goes for Russell Brand because if ever there was someone who is massively overrated and NOT funny then its Russell Brand.Loathsome creature.Rather like a 15 - 16 yr old trapped in an adults body.

If i ran the BBC i would also sack Robert Peston in an instant and send him packing to the private sector where he belongs because if i am forced to pay a licence fee then i bitterly resent paying for someone who is so close to Govt and who continually sucks up to Gordon Brown so openly.Robert Peston also instigated the run on Northern Rock because Robert Peston was being given inside information straight from the Treasury and then broadcasting it.This is just one example.

This kind of activity is unnacceptable because its part of the BBCs remit to be apolitical and not a propaganda outlet.

 >:(

: Re: The Big British Castle
: Dandontdare 15 January, 2010, 05:15:46 PM
Just WTF was Torchwood all about ??

 :lol: :crazy: :thumbsdown: :o

Fucking unreal or completely surreal.Is it for children??

absolutely not. Dr Who's supposed to be for all the family, sarah Jane is aimed at kids and Torchwood aimed at an adult audience. Barrowman is supposedly a brilliant actor in musical theatre, but his mannerisms are just too big and overblown for television. He's a very funny interviewee however! He did a crap straight to video movie once and threw in an improvised, and totally innapropriate, line about eating pussy, purely to make his co-star laugh and put her at ease - unfortunately it made it into the final edit by accident.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Proudhuff 15 January, 2010, 05:46:00 PM
nothing funnier than a Jaffa kicking off about what his kids 'could' watch  :lol:
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Peter Wolf 15 January, 2010, 06:09:19 PM
nothing funnier than a Jaffa kicking off about what his kids 'could' watch  :lol:

What is a Jaffa ?

I did a search and couldnt find anything.Its obviously some sort of derogatory term of description.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: TordelBack 15 January, 2010, 07:43:38 PM
What is a Jaffa ?

Seedless.

A noble, and dare I say ecologically sound, state of being.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Peter Wolf 15 January, 2010, 11:56:23 PM
What is a Jaffa ?

Seedless.

A noble, and dare I say ecologically sound, state of being.

There is still plenty of time to correct that state of being.


Thanks for explaining though.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: JOE SOAP 16 January, 2010, 12:30:04 AM
Compare and contrast...

British Telly  vs italian telly

BBC Vs Berlusconi Broadcasting Clowns

Italian television is the most vacuous, inane combination of electrons ever to be broadcast on the tube.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Peter Wolf 16 January, 2010, 01:13:11 AM
Just WTF was Torchwood all about ??

 :lol: :crazy: :thumbsdown: :o

Fucking unreal or completely surreal.Is it for children??

absolutely not. Dr Who's supposed to be for all the family, sarah Jane is aimed at kids and Torchwood aimed at an adult audience. Barrowman is supposedly a brilliant actor in musical theatre, but his mannerisms are just too big and overblown for television. He's a very funny interviewee however! He did a crap straight to video movie once and threw in an improvised, and totally innapropriate, line about eating pussy, purely to make his co-star laugh and put her at ease - unfortunately it made it into the final edit by accident.

Its like you see a clip of Torchwood which i have never watched before ever and it just looked like some ridiculous spoof or comedy type thing.

I might try watching it if its on Youtube !

 :lol:
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Robin Low 16 January, 2010, 12:06:24 PM
Its like you see a clip of Torchwood which i have never watched before ever and it just looked like some ridiculous spoof or comedy type thing.

Oh, it is, it is. Although that probably wasn't the intention.


Regards

Robin
: Re: The Big British Castle
: House of Usher 16 January, 2010, 12:17:15 PM
An interesting discussion thread. I realize it's something I don't feel all that strongly about though. Without the BBC I'm sure broadcasting would be totally crap. But that's okay, because then I'd probably be more inclined to exercize or read a book or something.

To object to the BBC on grounds of cost is kind of pathetic. If it seems expensive then they're not paying you enough. Maybe there should be a concessionary rate for the unwaged and low earners - it is, after all, a regressive form of taxation.

Overall the BBC maintains a very high standard of output, matched only by Channel 4 News, Dispatches, Peep Show and The IT Crowd, etc. Without the BBC to set the standard for news and current affairs reporting the British public would be significantly less well informed than they are already, because you cannot rely on Sky News, the Daily Mail and MSN to tell you what's going on. It's a pity the 6 o'clock news on the BBC is so dumbed down and they save the grown-up news until 10.30pm on BBC2.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Mikey 17 January, 2010, 01:18:06 PM
remit to be apolitical

Well, just to blow Radio Ulster's news again, percieved political bias is something regularly trotted out by both sides, which says to me they're doing something right.

As far as the national news, can't say I see it as biased. Do you see it as inherently left/liberal or something?

M.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Richmond Clements 17 January, 2010, 02:18:09 PM
political bias is something regularly trotted out by both sides, which says to me they're doing something right.

Indeed! I've always taken the daily complaints from both camps about Davy Dunseath as a sign he was being straight down the middle in his sarcasm!
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Peter Wolf 17 January, 2010, 02:53:47 PM
remit to be apolitical

Well, just to blow Radio Ulster's news again, percieved political bias is something regularly trotted out by both sides, which says to me they're doing something right.

As far as the national news, can't say I see it as biased. Do you see it as inherently left/liberal or something?

M.

The political outlook of the BBC is very similar to that of the Guardian.If you dont like the political outlook of the Guardian you dont have to read it or buy it but with the BBC you dont have the choice.

There are some good comments in the comments section of the article linked below which explain what i am talking about :

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100004097/controller-calls-on-the-bbc-to-foster-left-of-centre-thinking/


Going back to what i said earlier it cant be right having a Business editor employed by the BBC who has such close ties to govt.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: House of Usher 17 January, 2010, 04:59:30 PM
The correspondent 'Gordon Bennett' says

I have always been aware that the beeb is continuously left-wing and pro labour and it irritates me a great deal.

This begs the question: how can the BBC be left-wing and pro-Labour? It can't be both. The Labour Party hasn't been left-wing since John Smith died.

Furthermore, as the correspondent 'Queenie' opines, Ben Stephenson, a BBC controller who called for 'left of centre thinking' (politically biased) probably meant 'left-field' (original and counter-intuitive) which means something else altogether.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Trout 19 January, 2010, 01:53:16 PM
Hi. Just a quick post to apologise. I shouldn't have been making inflammatory, sweeping statements on this board when I didn't have time to join the debate properly.

Briefly, my problem with the BBC is focused on its news, which is publicly-funded yet competes with a struggling private sector. Like many journalists, I'm concerned about the fture of our industry and deeply uncomfortable with the budgets the BBC can command.

I agree there are all sorts of great things the BBC does, though.

I'll shut up now. The baby's down for a nap and I WILL FIND TIMED TO SHAVE TODAY.  :)

- Trout
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Mikey 21 January, 2010, 01:35:33 PM
I shouldn't have been making inflammatory, sweeping statements on this board when I didn't have time to join the debate properly.

You do know this is the internet, don't you?  ;)

M
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Hoagy 21 January, 2010, 01:55:58 PM
I'm in the 'if you want it pay for it' camp. I don't like being forced to watch a channel with understanding, I'll love it so much I'd be prepared to pay say the first months council tax bill amount,  for it, or get threatening letters stressing me out.
You don't want adverts? Pay  more per month.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: staticgirl 27 January, 2010, 05:12:38 PM
interesting article from last september
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/sep/04/bbc-icm-poll-james-murdoch
: Re: The Big British Castle
: COMMANDO FORCES 27 January, 2010, 06:32:01 PM
1001 people asked, well they didn't me did they ;)
: Re: The Big British Castle
: radiator 26 February, 2010, 01:32:19 PM
Looks like BBC 6 Music is to be scrapped - literally the only tolerable music station on air imo....

Balls.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8538130.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8538130.stm)
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Proudhuff 26 February, 2010, 01:35:39 PM
Are you all HAPPY now? You've made Radiator cry?
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Richmond Clements 26 February, 2010, 01:38:13 PM
Looks like BBC 6 Music is to be scrapped - literally the only tolerable music station on air imo....

Balls.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8538130.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8538130.stm)

It is, to coin a phrase, a fucking disgrace.

Andrew Collings wrote a great blog about it:

http://www.wherediditallgoright.com/BLOG/2010/02/nooooooooooooooooo.html
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Peter Wolf 26 February, 2010, 01:49:28 PM
The BBC should divert more of its attention to reporting on news like the closing down of the steelworks in Redcar and plenty of other things that are important instead of Tiger fucking Woods.

Pathetic.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Mike Gloady 26 February, 2010, 01:51:48 PM
It's official?

Arses.  What a pile of wank.  That's pretty much the only BBC music station I listen to - I'd've binned Radio 5, 1 and 1 extra first.  Or the World Service which nobody in this country (the folks who pay for it, remember) really listens to.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: TordelBack 26 February, 2010, 02:31:39 PM
 Or the World Service which nobody in this country (the folks who pay for it, remember) really listens to.

Call yourself an Imperialist oppressor?  Bah! 
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Bolt-01 26 February, 2010, 02:47:56 PM
6music is in my ears, right now, and the world service is great overnight.

Really hope that this news gives 6music more listeners and therefore, a reprieve.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Colin YNWA 26 February, 2010, 02:53:41 PM
6music is in my ears, right now, and the world service is great overnight.

Really hope that this news gives 6music more listeners and therefore, a reprieve.

I do really hope this is why the BBC is reporting this speculation to give people a chance to rally around and make an out cry about how ridiculous it is too so dramatically reduce its funding.

I love 6 Music

I love the BBC's web output

There is nothing out there like either of these (I won't comment on the Asian Network but I suspect its a similar case) and this is why we need to fund the BBC as it will create diversity that the commerical media outlets that attack it are incapable of.

DAMN THEIR EYES!!!!
: Re: The Big British Castle
: COMMANDO FORCES 26 February, 2010, 03:16:23 PM
Pity about 6 Music as the wife loves it.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: vzzbux 26 February, 2010, 10:27:34 PM
BBC world service was a stalwart when I was in the army overseas and it was all I could pick up.






V
: Re: The Big British Castle
: I, Cosh 26 February, 2010, 11:12:00 PM
A mate who works for the Beeb told me a while back that 6Music and BBC4 were the most likely candidates for the next round of chopping. Or, to put it another way, the two channels I use the most. Get rid of BBC fucking pointless 3.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Dandontdare 26 February, 2010, 11:35:59 PM
BBC6 is a station that I don't actually listen to often, but am really glad it exists. There are loads of things that philosophy would apply to actually, many of them provided by the BBC.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Mike Gloady 27 February, 2010, 03:30:23 AM
Life without Lauren Laverne, Hughey Morgan, Stuart Maconie?  Unthinkable. 

6 Music and BBC4 are the shining reasons I don't mind paying for the license fee. 

BBC 3, Radio 1 and 1 Extra...... not so much.  Yawn.  BBC3 is already done "better" (by which I mean more successfully) by the godawful E4.  And commercial local radio offers all the pop and rnb stations you can handle (and lots more those over 18 really can't).  I thought the purpose of having a state broadcaster was to do things nobody else is doing.  Seeing as xfm is now the indie version of Capital (and lost all credibility sometime last century) 6 music is the only station doing what it actually does. 

And the World Service through the night?  How about just making Radio 4 a 24 hour thing, then no need for it.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Colin YNWA 27 February, 2010, 08:01:02 AM
Apparently BBC3 is a training ground for new talent and very productive for that and so has been said to be safe. Very little on it I enjoy but apparently quite important.

It also keeps the tosh off the channels I do like if I'm feeling elitist!
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Steve Green 27 February, 2010, 09:39:17 AM
I'll be surprised if 6music does go, it does seem to be a very unpopular move.

I wonder if it's just the BBC presenting a worst case so they can reign back from that and still cut what they really want to, to show a probable new tory government that they're cutting back of their own accord and don't need the government to swing the axe.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Mike Gloady 27 February, 2010, 10:11:19 AM
BBC3 - NEW TALENT?

Presumably this is the unfunny morons Corn and Horden?
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Richmond Clements 27 February, 2010, 10:44:43 AM
I'll be surprised if 6music does go, it does seem to be a very unpopular move.

I wonder if it's just the BBC presenting a worst case so they can reign back from that and still cut what they really want to, to show a probable new tory government that they're cutting back of their own accord and don't need the government to swing the axe.

Yeah- I think (and hope) this is a clever move by the Beeb, leaking this story as a way of demonstrating the support for what they do.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Mike Gloady 27 February, 2010, 10:49:48 AM
Like the way Heinz said they were going to stop making the godawful Salad Cream stuff (honestly, in a world where you can get mayonaise or tartare sauce there cannot be a place for this overly sweet impostor).  Good point, here's bloody hoping.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Proudhuff 27 February, 2010, 10:51:36 AM
There should be a 'Save Our Six' e-petition to No 10, I'd do it but have no idea where to start  :-[
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Richmond Clements 27 February, 2010, 10:55:58 AM
http://www.petition.fm/petitions/6musicasiannet/1000/
: Re: The Big British Castle
: radiator 27 February, 2010, 11:19:34 AM
While 6 Music may not get massive listening figures, the ones it does have are extremely loyal and vocal.

Look at the Adam & Joe Saturday morning show - listeners would regularly send in jingles, songs, posters, models, animations, cartoons etc that they had produced purely for the love of the show. It genuinely felt like a community of like-minded, creative individuals, an audience simply not catered for on any other music station out there. It was also a show that introduced me to a lot of music.

6 Music isn't without it's problems, though - hiring the awful George Lamb was a huge mistake which drove many old fans away, and over the last few years it has become far more mainstream and playlisted. Were it to be saved, I would like to see it regain it's alternative stance and play a far greater variety of music - having a strict playlist always seemed at odds with what they were trying to achieve.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Jim_Campbell 27 February, 2010, 11:26:48 AM
Yeah- I think (and hope) this is a clever move by the Beeb, leaking this story as a way of demonstrating the support for what they do.

You're overlooking the fact that this came out via The Times, which is a Murdoch paper and thus no friend of the BBC.

Cheers

Jim
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Richmond Clements 27 February, 2010, 11:28:05 AM
Yeah- I think (and hope) this is a clever move by the Beeb, leaking this story as a way of demonstrating the support for what they do.

You're overlooking the fact that this came out via The Times, which is a Murdoch paper and thus no friend of the BBC.

Cheers

Jim

True... but if I enter into a massively complex conspiracy theory...
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Jim_Campbell 27 February, 2010, 11:33:01 AM
True... but if I enter into a massively complex conspiracy theory...

Tinfoil hat, sir?

Cheers!

Jim
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Mike Gloady 27 February, 2010, 12:08:33 PM
Radiator, I agree wholeheartedly with your post.  It seems very "in" to post a quote without comment in these circumstances, but I think it's lazy and annoying so I'm typing this to say the same thing. 

I CONCUR.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Proudhuff 27 February, 2010, 12:38:38 PM
http://www.petition.fm/petitions/6musicasiannet/1000/

Signed! now the rest of you get fell in!
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Colin YNWA 27 February, 2010, 01:22:44 PM
http://www.petition.fm/petitions/6musicasiannet/1000/

Signed! now the rest of you get fell in!

And don't forget to pass it on when you've done too.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Mike Gloady 27 February, 2010, 01:36:03 PM
Done and posted on my facebook page with an exhortation to all my folks to sign up too if they're behind it.  Which obviously I'd hope they are. 
: Re: The Big British Castle
: vzzbux 28 February, 2010, 07:51:27 AM
TBH I don't think the BBC will listen to the masses.







V
: Re: The Big British Castle
: staticgirl 28 February, 2010, 11:24:03 PM
Signed, a rant posted on Deviantart and more. Now I am going to upload a profile with the save 6music thingy on it.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Peter Wolf 04 March, 2010, 11:10:21 PM
How timely:

Thank you Auntie Beeb for your hour long slice of half baked fearmongering propaganda that was "How Safe Are Our Skies" aired on 04/03/09 @ 21.00hrs.I was particularly unimpressed [but sadly not surprised] with the way that you blatantly lied and obfuscated the truth about the events leading up to the AL-CIAda terror suspect boarding the plane at Amsterdam airport and how you deliberately failed to mention that the suspect was already under surveillance and was assisted onto the plane without a passport.There were a few other secondary points that i wont dwell on for the moment but i wish to thank you again for reinforcing the official party line and i am delighted with the sloppy standard of the journalism that was present throughout.You never fail to disappoint.

Finally i was very pleased that you didnt forget to express your usual fawning sycophancy towards our great leader Gordon Brown and his measured and timely and well thought out response to the alleged terrorist event on christmas day 2009.

Its this sloppy standard of Blatantly Biased Condescending television that misleadingly labels itself as investigative journalism/documentary filmmaking that makes it increasingly difficult/fucking impossible for me to defend you from criticism when it concerns your political bias and i have done my fair share of that recently.I will continue to pay my licence and justify your existence but i will disregard your biased drivel or view it as satire instead for entertainment only.This justifies my payment of the licence fee in my mind.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Steve Green 22 March, 2010, 07:37:16 PM
http://adam-buxton.co.uk/ad/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/CHNAGES-FOR-6-MUSIC-EDIT.mp3

rather good song from Adam Buxton there.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Colin YNWA 22 March, 2010, 08:57:36 PM
That's class, absolute class. So like when does the campaign start to get it to number 1?
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Steve Green 23 March, 2010, 08:15:38 AM
He really needs to do a video - get a Bowie cameo in there as well :)
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Bolt-01 23 March, 2010, 09:42:47 AM
I was on a tour of Wood lane at the weekend (thanks again for the surprise weekend Mrs Bolt) and flippin' loved it. I learned a lot about how they actually 'do' telly, and the tour guides were very knowledgeable and friendly. I even got a photo of Mrs bolt with Charley Borman (A lovely chap), and I got a snap of the (allegedly) original 'Badger', off of bodger and...

Not much to do with saving 6, but this is a thread about the beeb...
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Peter Wolf 05 April, 2010, 12:06:54 AM
WOW

I just watched a BBC documentary - Is Christianity Being Persecuted that was fair and balanced and objective and even more amazing than that it was actually critical of govt policy and their cackhanded handling of the of religious tolerance issue.It was something to listen to while doing some drawing.

 :o :o

This is really what the BBC should be doing all the time so its good to see that they can still deliver even if not very often.

And as if thats not enough now The Sky At Night is discussing very recent solar activity and the connection between solar cycles and the effect it has on the climate here on Earth.

 :o :o

This just goes to show that you have to defend the BBC as an institution even if you have been very unhappy with it for whatever reason so if any of those shifty worthless politicians have any ideas about turning it over to the private sector then i will have words with them.

You would not get programming like this or you dont get programming like this in the commercial sector and anyone who claims otherwise is just wasting their own time.

: Re: The Big British Castle
: Robin Low 05 April, 2010, 09:54:10 AM

Thank you Auntie Beeb for your hour long slice of half baked fearmongering propaganda that was "How Safe Are Our Skies" aired on 04/03/09 @ 21.00hrs.I was particularly unimpressed [but sadly not surprised] with the way that you blatantly lied and obfuscated the truth about the events leading up to the AL-CIAda terror suspect boarding the plane at Amsterdam airport and how you deliberately failed to mention that the suspect was already under surveillance and was assisted onto the plane without a passport.There were a few other secondary points that i wont dwell on for the moment but i wish to thank you again for reinforcing the official party line and i am delighted with the sloppy standard of the journalism that was present throughout.You never fail to disappoint.

Finally i was very pleased that you didnt forget to express your usual fawning sycophancy towards our great leader Gordon Brown and his measured and timely and well thought out response to the alleged terrorist event on christmas day 2009.

Its this sloppy standard of Blatantly Biased Condescending television that misleadingly labels itself as investigative journalism/documentary filmmaking that makes it increasingly difficult/fucking impossible for me to defend you from criticism when it concerns your political bias and i have done my fair share of that recently.I will continue to pay my licence and justify your existence but i will disregard your biased drivel or view it as satire instead for entertainment only.This justifies my payment of the licence fee in my mind.

followed by:




WOW

I just watched a BBC documentary - Is Christianity Being Persecuted that was fair and balanced and objective and even more amazing than that it was actually critical of govt policy and their cackhanded handling of the of religious tolerance issue.It was something to listen to while doing some drawing.

 :o :o

This is really what the BBC should be doing all the time so its good to see that they can still deliver even if not very often.

And as if thats not enough now The Sky At Night is discussing very recent solar activity and the connection between solar cycles and the effect it has on the climate here on Earth.

 :o :o

This just goes to show that you have to defend the BBC as an institution even if you have been very unhappy with it for whatever reason so if any of those shifty worthless politicians have any ideas about turning it over to the private sector then i will have words with them.

You would not get programming like this or you dont get programming like this in the commercial sector and anyone who claims otherwise is just wasting their own time.



So... what you seem to be saying, Peter, is that you'll defend and praise the BBC when it's saying things you agree with, but dismiss it as biased when it says things you don't agree with it.


Regards

Robin
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Peter Wolf 05 April, 2010, 01:49:40 PM
Thats right as i am being objective about it and its a bit more than just what i agree with personally as truth is truth regardless of wether i agree with it or not and likewise what i watched last night.

It doesnt seem very fair to just criticise the BBC.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Richmond Clements 05 April, 2010, 01:53:13 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00qyxfb
: Re: The Big British Castle
: TordelBack 05 April, 2010, 02:20:16 PM
The sight of Brian Cox oohing and ahhing drives me up the wall.  For some reason he always reminds me of an Innsmouth version  of Neil Gaiman.  My curse is that he does present the most interesting programmes.  

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: you might hate and resent  them for all sort of valid reasions, but without the BBC, who will make Sky at Night?   It's that simple.

EDIT:  We were down at the sea yesterday, and my boy asked me where did all the water come from.  Thanks to Sir Patrick & Co being there my whole life, I was able to give him a proper answer.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Richmond Clements 05 April, 2010, 02:22:15 PM
The sight of Brian Cox oohing and ahhing drives me up the wall.  For some reason he always reminds me of an Innsmouth version  of Neil Gaiman.  My curse is that he does present the most interesting programmes.  

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: you might hate and resent  them for all sort of valid reasions, but without the BBC, who will make Sky at Night?   It's that simple.

That's crazy talk, TB! Prof Brian is lovely!
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Mikey 05 April, 2010, 03:46:07 PM
I've liked Brian Cox much more when he's just on the physics and being confused by the seeming mentalness of the kerazy laws. I really enjoyed last nights I must say; the Scablands are now further up the Mikey list of places to go. Mrs Mikey will not have a word said against him for some reason  :|

I didn't watch the 'Are Christians being persecuted' thing. I thought that's what most of them were kind of into. Y'know, suffering and that. So, did the BBC decide they are being persecuted?

M.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Peter Wolf 05 April, 2010, 04:46:48 PM

I didn't watch the 'Are Christians being persecuted' thing. I thought that's what most of them were kind of into. Y'know, suffering and that. So, did the BBC decide they are being persecuted?

M.

I dont think that the BBC has decided that Christians are being persecuted but it was presented as a topic of discussion and it was asking the question of ARE they being persecuted ? and there is evidence that they are being persecuted to an extent.

I dont know very many Christians but all those i have known were not into suffering or persecution.I am not a Christian but i will defend their right to practice their religion in peace and talk openly about it.Not sure about Fundamentalists though..........
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Mike Gloady 05 April, 2010, 05:44:25 PM
Christians probably LIKE a bit of persecution - getting closer to Jebus and all.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Peter Wolf 05 April, 2010, 05:53:36 PM
I seem to have woken up the Atheist faction.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: House of Usher 05 April, 2010, 06:57:35 PM
Tut-tut, Mike Gloady - Mikey got in there first. I'm not even a Christian, but I still like a bit of persecution myself. It makes me feel special. Although I would take career success and a doubling of income in preference, feeling persecuted does at least allow me to feel I'm not entirely the architect of my own misfortune.

Hey look, we're off-topic. We've stopped talking about the BBC altogether at this point.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Colin YNWA 06 July, 2015, 08:22:20 PM
Alas it would seem it's time to resurrect this thread. Tories are really kicking the BBC this time.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Professor Bear 06 July, 2015, 10:26:07 PM
That's what happens when you roll over for bullies.  Cameron personally threatened Beeb execs before the General Election and the bias of their reporting that followed speaks for itself - though it's worth remembering their disseminating pro-Israeli lies during the Gaza massacre, too, even after those lies had been thoroughly debunked.

We've seen that American television is more than capable of surpassing the BBC's output, so the one defence the BBC could continue to offer was their independence and the assurance that they weren't shills for the university chums of their board.  Now they've lost that, they can't die soon enough for my liking.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Colin YNWA 07 July, 2015, 08:38:00 AM
We've seen that American television is more than capable of surpassing the BBC's output, so the one defence the BBC could continue to offer was their independence and the assurance that they weren't shills for the university chums of their board.  Now they've lost that, they can't die soon enough for my liking.

Arh, a line that can almost be simplified to the 'Let Murdoch Win Gambit'. There is little doubt that when it comes to long form drama, American TV networks have the resources and skilled creators, to produce stuff that surpasses the BBC. I've not watched much if any of SKYs original drama, but I suspect its not far behind either. The thing is the BBC is about far, far more than that, and to be fair still churns out its fair share of astonishingly good drama, comedy etc. Normally in a slightly shorter format. The Beeb is about the other shows as well, diversity, that otherwise wouldn't be served at all. Arts and culture, events and happening, original children's telly, things that wouldn't last on a commercial platform, or at the very least would be relegated to some cheap tat to fill time. Its about radio. Its about its still quite superb website. Its about generating British talent and so much more.

Its news is still pretty damned fine and while it stands accused of bias at times, the vast majority of the time its doing all right. The most telling for me, you get shrill cries of BBC bias from both left and right - center ground no doubt too, feeling ignored - that tells me its almost certainly doing okay.

Its not perfect and you get the impression there is still a lot of the old school network about the place. That seems to be changing over time, which needs to continue.

Even a BBC that makes mistakes is a damned powerful thing to have and needs to be there to keep Murdoch (an easy shorthand I accept) and the like in check. Get rid of the BBC what fills the void? Where its needed probably nothing, where its not maybe more big corporate media empires. Maybe FOX TV wants a bigger share of our market?
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Fungus 07 July, 2015, 09:09:32 AM
Another thread that started before I was (re)born  :)

I'm with Colin pretty much across the board, and BBC-bashing always sounds to me a very arch line to take. Along with news, I'd emphasise radio. Listen to radio a lot and the 4 stations I rotate are all Beeb.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Jim_Campbell 07 July, 2015, 09:12:36 AM
Now they've lost that, they can't die soon enough for my liking.

Well, that's a neat demonstration of how the Tory process works: devalue/degrade a public service and then point to the sorry state it's in as proof of the desperate need to close it down or sell it off. See also: the NHS.

Oddly enough, when you talk to anyone from outside Britain, the two things they most associate with us, and admire us for, are the NHS and the BBC, both of which the Tories are hell-bent on destroying in order to provide additional profits for their already-rich-beyond-comprehension donors and supporters.

Cheers

Jim
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Professor Bear 07 July, 2015, 11:15:17 AM
The most telling for me, you get shrill cries of BBC bias from both left and right - center ground no doubt too, feeling ignored - that tells me its almost certainly doing okay.

A supposition slightly undermined by independent studies showing the BBC has a conservative worldview, and the fact that the right attacks the BBC regardless on Rupert Murdoch's behalf.  To me, the BBC can only sell itself as a public service while it serves the interests of the public rather than the interests of a conservative cabal, and that means independent news rather than more Doctor Who.

Besides, if the BBC had to compete commercially, there never would have been a Mrs Brown's Boys, and I'm sorry but this trumps all other arguments.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Colin YNWA 07 July, 2015, 11:51:32 AM
The most telling for me, you get shrill cries of BBC bias from both left and right - center ground no doubt too, feeling ignored - that tells me its almost certainly doing okay.

A supposition slightly undermined by independent studies showing the BBC has a conservative worldview, and the fact that the right attacks the BBC regardless on Rupert Murdoch's behalf...

I better make an emphasis that this is a genuine request and not snark, this being the internet and all, but if you could direct me to those I'd love to read some. I consider myself fairly left wing (its all relative) and think the BBC does a pretty good job.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Tiplodocus 07 July, 2015, 01:02:04 PM
My generally positive view of the BBC did get coloured slightly by INDYREF where they seemed to me at least, to be in bed with the NO campaign; I'd love to see if there are papers that back that up.

But I'm still glad we have them.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: GordonR 07 July, 2015, 01:21:09 PM
My generally positive view of the BBC did get coloured slightly by INDYREF where they seemed to me at least, to be in bed with the NO campaign; I'd love to see if there are papers that back that up.

But I'm still glad we have them.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/john-robertson/bbc-bias-and-scots-referendum-new-report (https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/john-robertson/bbc-bias-and-scots-referendum-new-report)

Fill your boots - study done by the University of the West of Scotland.



The idea that the BBC is an unbiased, non-partisan news source is nonsense.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Jim_Campbell 07 July, 2015, 01:22:21 PM
The idea that the BBC anyone is an unbiased, non-partisan news source is nonsense.

FTFY.

Cheers

Jim
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Dandontdare 07 July, 2015, 01:27:14 PM
This governemnt seem very keen on giving away other people's money and property -  it was the govt, not the BBC that decided to give pensioners a free licence - then a few years later, they tell the BBC that the corporation must pay for the govt's generosity. Similarly with housing associations - they've sold off nearly all the stae-owned housing so now they legislated that HA tenants can buy their properties, even if they don't belong to the govt.

I find the shameless and continual Beeb-bashing from the tories to be shameful, egged on by the tabloid press (no conflict of interest there then...).

If they ever do go from licence-fee funding to adverts, it will probably see the end of my radio-listening days. I listen to a lot of radio (R4, 4extra & 6music and a bit of R2) but I cannot abide ads on the radio (don't know why they bug me infinitely more than they do on TV)
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Professor Bear 07 July, 2015, 02:13:11 PM
This governemnt seem very keen on giving away other people's money and property

Hey, don't knock it - it means they know how socialism works.  Now if the poor could just have some we'd be getting somewhere.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: radiator 07 July, 2015, 05:36:03 PM
If they ever do go from licence-fee funding to adverts, it will probably see the end of my radio-listening days. I listen to a lot of radio (R4, 4extra & 6music and a bit of R2) but I cannot abide ads on the radio (don't know why they bug me infinitely more than they do on TV)

Agreed. I live in America, and mainstream TV & radio stations here are genuinely headache-inducing to watch/listen to.

That's what it'll soon be like in the UK if the BBC goes.

Oddly enough, when you talk to anyone from outside Britain, the two things they most associate with us, and admire us for, are the NHS and the BBC, both of which the Tories are hell-bent on destroying in order to provide additional profits for their already-rich-beyond-comprehension donors and supporters.

Word.

As comedian Rob Delaney put it on Twitter the other day (paraphrasing): "The BBC and the NHS are all that prevents the UK from being a grey Florida".
: Re: The Big British Castle
: JamesC 08 July, 2015, 09:10:42 AM
I love the BBC - its a great institution - but I think they need a change in leadership.
Comedy and drama are dying a death on BBC 1 and 2.
: Re: The Big British Castle
: Theblazeuk 08 July, 2015, 10:40:43 AM
My generally positive view of the BBC did get coloured slightly by INDYREF where they seemed to me at least, to be in bed with the NO campaign; I'd love to see if there are papers that back that up.

But I'm still glad we have them.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/john-robertson/bbc-bias-and-scots-referendum-new-report (https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/john-robertson/bbc-bias-and-scots-referendum-new-report)

Fill your boots - study done by the University of the West of Scotland.



The idea that the BBC is an unbiased, non-partisan news source is nonsense.

Best you've ever had. Or ever will.