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Author Topic: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?  (Read 21823 times)

Hawkmumbler

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #300 on: 26 October, 2021, 10:24:07 PM »
You've fallen into the fallacy trap of assuming the concerns of terfs hold any merit or abject reality to them, Sharky. They do not, there is never and has never been anything but soite fueling their farce of an agenda.

Mister Pops

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #301 on: 26 October, 2021, 11:15:11 PM »
You've fallen into the fallacy trap of assuming the concerns of terfs hold any merit or abject reality to them, Sharky. They do not, there is never and has never been anything but soite fueling their farce of an agenda.

I took Shark's post to be a demonstration of why those arguments don't hold pish.
You may quote me on that.

The Legendary Shark

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #302 on: 26 October, 2021, 11:58:09 PM »


I took Shark's post to be a demonstration of why those arguments don't hold pish.


Yes, that was my intention - though I worded it clumsily.

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Jim_Campbell

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #303 on: 27 October, 2021, 11:10:54 AM »
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Hawkmumbler

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #304 on: 27 October, 2021, 12:15:20 PM »
Signed and shared. Good stuff Jim.

milstar

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Reyt, you lot. Shut up, belt up, 'n if ye can't see t' bloody exit, ye must be bloody blind.

Jim_Campbell

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milstar

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Reyt, you lot. Shut up, belt up, 'n if ye can't see t' bloody exit, ye must be bloody blind.


The Legendary Shark

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #309 on: 29 October, 2021, 01:43:43 AM »

Too late.

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Funt Solo

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #310 on: 29 October, 2021, 03:22:02 PM »
Touché.
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Tjm86

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #312 on: 14 November, 2021, 01:07:26 AM »
I think it's also important to remember that the entire 'gender critical' assault on trans people right now is a construction of the American Christian right. They feel they've 'lost' the battle on gay rights, so they decided to peel off trans rights as a wedge issue that they might have a better chance of winning.

That is an interesting perspective and one I'm personally grateful for.  The obsession of some Christian groups with sexual orientation and preference is something I find unhelpful to say the least.

The 'gender critical' issue is another one I find bemusing.  I personally, as a Christian, hold that gender is a social construction.  I would agree that it is something an individual can define.  It is up to each of us to define ourselves as either male or female.

I'm still trying to understand how biology and genetics works into this.  I'm not talking about someone who feels they are one gender or another, rather what the gender we are born with means, how biology shapes us.  There is a difference between male and female physiology that has to be taken into consideration.  This is from a purely medical perspective.

That is not to say that personal, psychological or social factors are not relevant.  If someone identifies as male or female that does not make their gender identity any less relevant.  Suggesting that a male who identifies as female is a greater risk is definitely insulting though. Therein lies the present problem.

It feels a little like this is what some commentators are missing.  For women / feminists the issue is about perceived rather than actual risk.  It is unfortunate that there is a conflation here.  Again I'm speaking as a Christian.

Personally I think that much of the criticism of the American Christian Right is valid.  It involves an extreme interpretation of scripture.  It is unhelpful in how it portrays faith.  If anything it undermines evangelism.

Many boarders are justifiably sceptical / adversant to Christian dogma.  To be honest, that is something I can relate to.  The average 'Christian' is probably the best advertisement for atheism going.  I would just like to offer a slightly different perspective on these issues.

Funt Solo

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #313 on: 14 November, 2021, 02:30:38 AM »
Having listened to a lot of Christopher Hitchen's arguments regarding religion, two points that he made come to mind, and I'll paraphrase them (probably poorly, because he had a sharper mind than me). Firstly, it's difficult to discuss Christianity* with Christians because it becomes a moving target of belief in supposed events vs. belief in the metaphor of story. It's a slippery fish, in other words, because Christians don't really like to be nailed down** on what their beliefs really consist of.

Secondly, there's a tendency to distance oneself from the actual teachings of Christianity in order to find more stable and agreeable ground. I think this is linked to the first issue of clarifying the constraints of the belief. By the time you're apologizing for most ("average") Christians and excusing their views and instead just taking what seems like a balanced and liberal moral position, what's it got to do with Christianity? Or: religion isn't required to be morally upstanding. (There are several arguments that it causes more harm than good.)


*These points hold true if Christianity is replaced with almost any other religion (with obvious exceptions being the potentially satirical religions of Discordianism, Pastafarianism and The Satanic Temple).
**This was accidental, and then I just left it there. Fish, as well. Double whammy!


---


Not too soon at all, just transphobic.

No room for ironic humor at all? Because I think of myself as pro-trans rights. Oh well...
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Tjm86

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #314 on: 14 November, 2021, 11:17:53 AM »

**This was accidental, and then I just left it there. Fish, as well. Double whammy!


Look there is a plaice for that sort of thing.  Cod you be a little more careful?  Otherwise someone's going to end up really crabby.