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Author Topic: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?  (Read 21812 times)

The Mind of Wolfie Smith

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #330 on: 17 November, 2021, 08:14:55 PM »
i love stewart lee.
the principal target of a stewart lee set is stewart lee (whoever he is). a secondary target are the members of his audience who are gullible enough to unquestioningly believe whatever this thoroughly lampooned 'stewart lee' character has told them.

the problem with punching down, however much irony is applied, is that what inevitably follows, in the end, is an encouragement to actually punch down, or a context in which punching down is sort of ok.

words travel, albeit sometimes remixed, once they are said.

Funt Solo

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #331 on: 18 November, 2021, 02:11:43 AM »
So where then satire?
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IndigoPrime

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #332 on: 18 November, 2021, 08:44:16 AM »
It’s a grey area, but satire when done well does not punch down. It continues to lampoon the thing it’s attacking, even when it strays near the line. The problem is when satire becomes the thing it’s ostensibly pushing against. In 2000 AD terms, Big Dave is an excellent example of that.

Mister Pops

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #333 on: 18 November, 2021, 11:51:52 AM »
Sir Pterry put it quite succinctly:

Quote
Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying
You may quote me on that.

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #334 on: 18 November, 2021, 12:46:31 PM »
It’s a grey area, but satire when done well does not punch down. It continues to lampoon the thing it’s attacking, even when it strays near the line. The problem is when satire becomes the thing it’s ostensibly pushing against. In 2000 AD terms, Big Dave is an excellent example of that.


I still have a soft spot for Big Dave (don't tell him that for feck's sake), but when a reader wrote in calling its detractors 'poofs' I was a wee bit uncomfortable.  Ricky Gervais seems another example of it - the scene in Life's Too Short of the disabled kid being bullied in the schoolyard was just too ugly to be funny. 
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

Funt Solo

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #335 on: 18 November, 2021, 03:46:08 PM »
Compelling arguments, carefully and kindly put must sway me. It seems like I strayed over the line - which is something I often recognize in Gervais's comedy.

My apologies again for any offence caused, and a promise to be more careful in the future.
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The Legendary Shark

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #336 on: 18 November, 2021, 04:25:20 PM »

Well, that frog died and nobody laughed.

I wish you'd all get back to the fishy puns - they were kraken me up.

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Dive a little deeper - all is not as it seems. "Cyber pandemic" on the way. Devices to be "quarantined" (disconnected).

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #337 on: 18 November, 2021, 09:07:39 PM »
Compelling arguments, carefully and kindly put must sway me. It seems like I strayed over the line - which is something I often recognize in Gervais's comedy.

My apologies again for any offence caused, and a promise to be more careful in the future.

Speaking personally I wasn't remotely offended, but then I suppose I'm not really in a position to give an opinion.   Didn't mean to compare you to Gervais.

My taste in comedy is very often the darkest of dark, like Chris Morris at his most twisted.
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

The Mind of Wolfie Smith

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #338 on: 18 November, 2021, 09:18:01 PM »
jonathan swift. we haven't moved on.

Funt Solo

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #339 on: 18 November, 2021, 10:12:51 PM »
Compelling arguments, carefully and kindly put must sway me. It seems like I strayed over the line - which is something I often recognize in Gervais's comedy.

My apologies again for any offence caused, and a promise to be more careful in the future.

Speaking personally I wasn't remotely offended, but then I suppose I'm not really in a position to give an opinion.   Didn't mean to compare you to Gervais.

My taste in comedy is very often the darkest of dark, like Chris Morris at his most twisted.

I accidentally compared myself to Lee, so I suppose it all balances out.

I'm happy to adopt an abundance of care approach rather than dig my heels about what was anyway a bit of a throwaway remark. It's not like I was planning a deep satire at the time.

I find the debate surrounding freedom of speech, comedy and the "freedom to offend" can be strangely obtuse at times - and I'm thinking of things said publicly by Gervais, Cleese and even Atkinson - and I'm happier not lining up with their "it's political correctness gone mad" level of spouting and frothing. Not that they're entirely gammon or without a point, but they have a tendency to sound more establishment than perhaps they would want to.
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Hawkmumbler

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #340 on: 19 November, 2021, 11:20:47 AM »
One universal truth remains that 'punch down' comedy comes from a positions of deep seated self loathing.
I should know, I was nearly radicalized in my teens as a way of avoiding coming to terms with my sexuality.
Edgy humor is one thing, god knows how often my friends and I call one another f*gs and d*kes for larks, but from a position of disdain for those already under constant attack from far right hate groups is just....crass, grotty and lazy. In complete poor taste.

Mister Pops

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #341 on: 19 November, 2021, 08:06:53 PM »
One universal truth remains that 'punch down' comedy comes from a positions of deep seated self loathing.

I wouldn't say that's a "universal truth". It's true for you, no doubt, but making broad generalizations like that, based on personal anecdotal experiences, never ends well.

Sometimes it comes from a lack of empathy, other times it's a lack of understanding.

And sometimes, people punch down because, deep down, they're just dicks*.




*based on personal anecdotal experiences
You may quote me on that.

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #342 on: 19 November, 2021, 08:29:55 PM »
One universal truth remains that 'punch down' comedy comes from a positions of deep seated self loathing.

I wouldn't say that's a "universal truth". It's true for you, no doubt, but making broad generalizations like that, based on personal anecdotal experiences, never ends well.

Sometimes it comes from a lack of empathy, other times it's a lack of understanding.

And sometimes, people punch down because, deep down, they're just dicks*.




*based on personal anecdotal experiences

As a straight white middle-class man, I find it impossible to punch down as we are the most oppressed group on the planet these days. [/sarcasm]
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

Funt Solo

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #343 on: 19 November, 2021, 09:50:51 PM »
Tell me about it! We're not even allowed to ... love Jeremy Clarkson!
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JayzusB.Christ

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Re: Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?
« Reply #344 on: 20 November, 2021, 07:51:47 AM »
Tell me about it! We're not even allowed to ... love Jeremy Clarkson!

You can be arrested and thrown in jail for it.

“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”