Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'?

[The Mind of Wolfie Smith]

i love stewart lee.
the principal target of a stewart lee set is stewart lee (whoever he is). a secondary target are the members of his audience who are gullible enough to unquestioningly believe whatever this thoroughly lampooned 'stewart lee' character has told them.

the problem with punching down, however much irony is applied, is that what inevitably follows, in the end, is an encouragement to actually punch down, or a context in which punching down is sort of ok.

words travel, albeit sometimes remixed, once they are said.

[Funt Solo]

So where then satire?

[IndigoPrime]

It's a grey area, but satire when done well does not punch down. It continues to lampoon the thing it's attacking, even when it strays near the line. The problem is when satire becomes the thing it's ostensibly pushing against. In 2000 AD terms, Big Dave is an excellent example of that.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Sir Pterry put it quite succinctly:

Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying

[JayzusB.Christ]

It's a grey area, but satire when done well does not punch down. It continues to lampoon the thing it's attacking, even when it strays near the line. The problem is when satire becomes the thing it's ostensibly pushing against. In 2000 AD terms, Big Dave is an excellent example of that.

I still have a soft spot for Big Dave (don't tell him that for feck's sake), but when a reader wrote in calling its detractors 'poofs' I was a wee bit uncomfortable.  Ricky Gervais seems another example of it - the scene in Life's Too Short of the disabled kid being bullied in the schoolyard was just too ugly to be funny. 

[Funt Solo]

Compelling arguments, carefully and kindly put must sway me. It seems like I strayed over the line - which is something I often recognize in Gervais's comedy.

My apologies again for any offence caused, and a promise to be more careful in the future.

[The Legendary Shark]

Well, that frog died and nobody laughed.

I wish you'd all get back to the fishy puns - they were kraken me up.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Compelling arguments, carefully and kindly put must sway me. It seems like I strayed over the line - which is something I often recognize in Gervais's comedy.

My apologies again for any offence caused, and a promise to be more careful in the future.

Speaking personally I wasn't remotely offended, but then I suppose I'm not really in a position to give an opinion.   Didn't mean to compare you to Gervais.

My taste in comedy is very often the darkest of dark, like Chris Morris at his most twisted.

[The Mind of Wolfie Smith]

jonathan swift. we haven't moved on.

[Funt Solo]

Compelling arguments, carefully and kindly put must sway me. It seems like I strayed over the line - which is something I often recognize in Gervais's comedy.

My apologies again for any offence caused, and a promise to be more careful in the future.

Speaking personally I wasn't remotely offended, but then I suppose I'm not really in a position to give an opinion.   Didn't mean to compare you to Gervais.

My taste in comedy is very often the darkest of dark, like Chris Morris at his most twisted.

I accidentally compared myself to Lee, so I suppose it all balances out.

I'm happy to adopt an abundance of care approach rather than dig my heels about what was anyway a bit of a throwaway remark. It's not like I was planning a deep satire at the time.

I find the debate surrounding freedom of speech, comedy and the "freedom to offend" can be strangely obtuse at times - and I'm thinking of things said publicly by Gervais, Cleese and even Atkinson - and I'm happier not lining up with their "it's political correctness gone mad" level of spouting and frothing. Not that they're entirely gammon or without a point, but they have a tendency to sound more establishment than perhaps they would want to.

[Hawkmumbler]

One universal truth remains that 'punch down' comedy comes from a positions of deep seated self loathing.
I should know, I was nearly radicalized in my teens as a way of avoiding coming to terms with my sexuality.
Edgy humor is one thing, god knows how often my friends and I call one another f*gs and d*kes for larks, but from a position of disdain for those already under constant attack from far right hate groups is just....crass, grotty and lazy. In complete poor taste.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

One universal truth remains that 'punch down' comedy comes from a positions of deep seated self loathing.

I wouldn't say that's a "universal truth". It's true for you, no doubt, but making broad generalizations like that, based on personal anecdotal experiences, never ends well.

Sometimes it comes from a lack of empathy, other times it's a lack of understanding.

And sometimes, people punch down because, deep down, they're just dicks*.




*based on personal anecdotal experiences

[JayzusB.Christ]

One universal truth remains that 'punch down' comedy comes from a positions of deep seated self loathing.

I wouldn't say that's a "universal truth". It's true for you, no doubt, but making broad generalizations like that, based on personal anecdotal experiences, never ends well.

Sometimes it comes from a lack of empathy, other times it's a lack of understanding.

And sometimes, people punch down because, deep down, they're just dicks*.




*based on personal anecdotal experiences

As a straight white middle-class man, I find it impossible to punch down as we are the most oppressed group on the planet these days. [/sarcasm]

[Funt Solo]

Tell me about it! We're not even allowed to ... love Jeremy Clarkson!

[JayzusB.Christ]

Tell me about it! We're not even allowed to ... love Jeremy Clarkson!

You can be arrested and thrown in jail for it.