Star Wars Episode IX

[sheridan]

Thanks Tordelback - some of those I'd have guessed myself (Jakku covered in remnants of Empire vehicles and weapons) others I didn't know about.

[karlos]

Finally, saw it.

Yeah...

Entertaining dogshit, isn't it?

[radiator]

I went in remembering all fuss made about the plot holes in TFA and goodness me there were a lot in this one as well.

Yeah, it makes the messy story of TFA look like a tightly-constructed swiss watch by comparison, doesn't it... How innocent we were back in 2015! 

[Magnetica]

Yep....how I pine for those heady days of 2016  .

[abelardsnazz]

[spoiler] I enjoyed it as a crowd-pleaser, not reading too much into it I found it funny, dramatic and with all the beats expected. I do wonder what the trilogy would have been like if JJ Abrams had directed all of it, he mostly wrested it back into more familiar territory after the direction Rian Johnson had taken it in. Loved the Death Star wreck, much humour courtesy of 3PO and BB8's little buddy. 8 out of 10 for me. /spoiler]

[Mardroid]

[spoiler] Palpatine having such a large fleet hidden away didn't really bother me that much. I think in films where people go across the galaxy in a short period of time (is it days or hours? That was never too clear to me) I think it's easy to forget that galaxies are HUGE. Palpatine could have had a thousand times the amount of ships and hid then easily, and they established that access to that region is difficult.

Getting people and resources for the ships is more problematic, but did they need to create them from scratch? From what I remember from RotJ, the emperial ship losses at the battle of Endor were pretty light. The Death Star was destroyed, as was Vader's super star destroyer (Executor?) I think one or two others might have been destroyed but I'm sure that left loads of the standard destroyers, and that just the fleet that was present. How many others were stationed elsewhere?

It's quite likely others were destroyed in later battles. I understand losses at Jakku may have been massive but again, big galaxy. How many destroyers were elsewhere?

So maybe Palpatine or his agents has these ships sent to the Sith planet, bit by bit from different locations so the Republic doesn't notice. (Not too much of a stretch when you consider the galaxy-wide scale. They later augment the ships with First Order technology (or maybe the Sith devotees were the originators of the tech) and maybe build a few others, but the bulk of the fleet could well have been available.
[/spoiler]

[radiator]

For me it just seemed excessive to the point of silliness - similar to the starkiller base from TFA. When you ramp up the scale of things like that you quickly reach a point where suspension of disbelief can't keep up with it.

To my mind, a fleet of say 10-12 super star destroyers would have served the exact same story purpose and still would have been a step up in scale compared to what we've seen previously, but would have been much more plausible. As it is, the scale of the final battle was so vast that it was impossible to track, or really buy into.

I think on the whole the space battles have been a real failing of the newer films. The space battles of the original trilogy always felt tense, claustrophobic and tactile, much more like the WWII dogfights they drew inspiration from. You always felt that the pilots were a second away from a firey death. The sequel trilogy space battles just look like overly flashy videogame cutscenes to me - there's no sense of weight or danger to them, and there's such a pronounced mental disconnect between the exterior and interior shots that I find them really uninvolving. It's probably pie in the sky but I kinda wish they'd used some actual physical miniatures and models to capture the same feel of the originals - I wonder what that old school practical effects technology would look like nowadays if they could augment it with cg, similar to what they did with the Netflix Dark Crystal series.

[Mardroid]

For me it just seemed excessive to the point of silliness - similar to the starkiller base from TFA. When you ramp up the scale of things like that you quickly reach a point where suspension of disbelief can't keep up with it.

To my mind, a fleet of say 10-12 super star destroyers would have served the exact same story purpose and still would have been a step up in scale compared to what we've seen previously, but would have been much more plausible. As it is, the scale of the final battle was so vast that it was impossible to track, or really buy into.

Thinking about it, you have a point there, considering each destroyer had a [spoiler]planet destroying superlaser[/spoiler]. Sure they wanted to give a reason for  the [spoiler]rest of the galaxy responding to the call to arms[/spoiler] but the size of each of these destroyers is enough to be formidable and 10-12 would be a major threat.

But... I really loved the film just the same.

[Funt Solo]

There is an over-arching question of what the Emperor's motivation is. See, if your plan is to rule the galaxy, then blowing up all of the planets leaves you little to rule over.

[JamesC]

When I was a kid there was a bloke on the nearby council estate who always told tall stories like how he was so good at darts that he wasn't allowed to play (he could get a bullseye every time), he beat up ten coppers with a pool cue (in one move) and he taught his pet chicken karate.
He was like a council estate JJ Abrams.

[radiator]

Something I've been thinking about a lot recently is why the universe of the sequels and prequels feel so small compared to the originals.

I was really shocked when I actually thought about how there's really only - if you break it down, around 9 or so distinct planets/locations in the entire OT, and that's if you count Alderaan (which we never actually see) and both Death Stars. It's so economical, and yet it somehow feels like this expansive world that we're only seeing the fringes of.

Is it because I'm watching the newer films without a child's limitless imagination? A relative gulf in the quality of the actual writing and worldbuilding? The differences between how modern films are paced and structured? Or a consequence of the reliance on coincidence, contrivance and fan service in the later films? A bit of all of the above?

[Tjm86]

Something I've been thinking about a lot recently is why the universe of the sequels and prequels feel so small compared to the originals.
Is it because I'm watching the newer films without a child's limitless imagination?

Possibly.  Or possibly that a whole lot more Sci-Fi reading has taken place in the intervening years?  Any one of a number of writers of the last thirty years has spread SF so far beyond the solar system it is unreal.  Even taking Baxter as a lone example, for me the galaxy is so much more complex than it was when I first saw Lucas' original offering.  Plus Hubble ....

[broodblik]

As a child you diffidently see stuff differently. Everything looked bigger and more intimidating. Another factor that contribute to this is since the original trilogy was released we had much more quality sci-fi content on both the big screen and especially TV. Introducing streaming to any device and we add another layer. SW has not suddenly become smaller the rest of the industry did some catch-up and surpass (in some cases) the bigness of the original trilogy. Technology in production values and better use of CGI also made a big difference.

[Hawkmumbler]

Finally saw it yesterday. And I think my friend Esther described it best. I've never seen a movie quiet so afraid of it's own shadow, and quiet so cowardly.

Everything about this movie screams studio interference and toxic fan appeasement.

[TordelBack]

That aspect of it is hugely disappointing, but after the unfair box office obliteration of the enjoyable Solo there was only one way it would go. I actually can't hold it agsinst Disney/LFL for reacting this way, but I'm very clear on who I do blame. In the event, the kowtowing wasn't quite as bad as it could have been, and at least Rose got more lines than Jar Jar did in Episode III, which was every bit as heavy in the fan-appeasement department.

And we'll always have TLJ.