The Political Thread

[The Legendary Shark]

Come on, Ireland - it's time for you to start showing the world how to save itself:
Local Public Banking System for Ireland
'Concept Document' is released.
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[Professor Bear]

Does it inconvenience Enda Kenny's corporate employers?  If "yes", it's never going to happen.

Whatever it is - I can't tell what the point of that page is, or what they're pushing, let alone why it's supposed to be a good thing.

[The Legendary Shark]

Basically, it's better to have hundreds of small banks working for their local businesses/communities than a handful of massive banks working for themselves. Credit and money (and humanity is still too greedy and stupid to admit we don't need either) are therefore concentrated and, crucially, recycled around local communities instead of being drained away by distant executives.
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It's similar to the idea of a local shop versus a national chain. The local shop sells local produce and the money stays in the community, going from customer to vendor to farmer to worker - the worker spends the same money in the local shop to buy another local product and so on and on. The national chain shop sells national and international goods so the money leaves the community altogether; from customer to head office.
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Of course in reality it's more complex and shops should sell a mixture of local and non-local products but it explains the basic principle quite well.
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Now, couple local public banks with local public money creation and destruction (money created and retired without interest) and we've got a Winner.

[Professor Bear]

I see.  I remain unconvinced and am increasingly coming to think we need a violent murder-based revolution rather than a financial one.  I am old fashioned and want my pound of flesh and heads on spikes.

Also, I was discussing the banking bail-out and it came up that by being given loads of public money, the bankers were directly benefiting not from capitalism but socialism, which I thought was interesting given they're not usually too keen on that kind of thing.

[ZenArcade]

The debt of the rich is socialised and the debt of the poor is privatised, there lies the nub of the entire issue. Z

[The Legendary Shark]

The banks are all for socialism - providing it only applies to them. It is, however, a limited and twisted form of socialism in which profits are privatised and risks are socialised. They do well and make a profit, we pay for it - they screw up and make a loss, we pay for it.
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I'll drop in the casino analogy here, if you know it just skip ahead a couple of paragraphs. Imagine the economy is a casino run by the government. Joe Bloe and Jane Doe have fun in the place, betting fivers and tenners, mostly. Let's fantasise even further and imagine the government makes sure all the games are fair and on the level. Joe and Jane lose a bit, win a bit and go home happy. Then the banker turns up with his fat wallet.
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He plays the tables like everyone else but with one crucial difference - if he loses he expects the house (government) to cover his debt and if he wins he keeps the cash. This is obviously unsustainable and will eventually result in the house being unable to pay out on Joe and Jane's winnings, at which point all bets are off.
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I do so disagree about the need for bloody revolution and heads on pikes, with the hangings and the disembowellings and the general beastliness. One bloodbath inevitably leads to another, as we well know. There are still many humans on this planet who hate other humans because of events taking place thousands of years ago to people who may not even have existed. We need to be smarter than that.
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I would not rule out bloody revolution as a last, a very last resort, but there is a much better way - lawful rebellion. The ruling elites are acutely aware of one fact most of us often overlook - they're vastly outnumbered. They rule only so long as we allow them to do so. This is why they pretend to be indispensable (as a whole), the pinnacle of civilisation and the only thing standing between us and barbarism. They are not.
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We don't need to attack them, we need to attack their main weapons of control - money and unchecked legislation. To me, it's all about taking control of your own choices and not accepting the one or two on offer. About being king or queen of your own life. About personal freedom and, perhaps most importantly of all, personal responsibility.
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I can't change the world and I can't rule over anyone. The only world I have the power or responsibility to change is my own and the only person I have the power or freedom to rule over is myself. I believe that to be true of almost everyone. That's where the revolution has to be - in your world. And the rebel can only be you.
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But I blather. Instead of bloody revolution I'd push for a species of Truth and Reconciliation process. We know these buggers have been shafting us for centuries and we're all pretty pissed off about it. That's what they're afraid of and, like any cornered animal, the more afraid they become the more likely they are to lash out. So, in my opinion, we have to a) stop co-operating with them and b) offer amnesty for anyone willing to come forward and testify, say for an amnesty period of 2 to 5 years. Any of them who haven't come clean or given themselves up after that - well, I guess that'll be the time to feed them to the bears!

[Professor Bear]

Revolutions don't happen because people are bored and fancy giving something else a go, revolutions happen because people want blood.  That's why police forces are militarising the world over with military-grade equipment and training, and why pretty soon that whole numbers advantage thing we have over the elite isn't going to matter a fuck.
Lynch the fuckers now while we've still got a chance.

[The Legendary Shark]

Before you rise up to fight them, ask yourself who's got the most guns. Violence plays right into their hands, gives them all the excuse they need to come down hard. Lawful rebellion, which I believe is our duty under Magna Carta (it's been a while since I read it so I'm not 100% sure), is by far the best way.
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Although it is not the only way. It's at least how we should start.

[ZenArcade]

The difficulty with the elites stance is that they have discarded any veneer of fairness and morality: the police and security forces probably despise them as much as the rest of us do. When you are a scumbag who makes no bones about nor offers any justification for pauperising entire societies, there will be very, very few people to stand by you. Z

[The Legendary Shark]

Exactly. So offer to stand by any of them who come over to "our side" and just watch the Armani rats abandon that sinking golden ship.

[Professor Bear]

They'll just build themselves a bigger, more luxurious ship to live on, and we'll pay for it even if there's no money left.

When it comes to revolution, you can have the violent one with murders and heads on sticks, or you can wait decades for piecemeal change and pray that there's a planet left for you by the time any of it happens.

[Hawkmumbler]

Just hang the lot of them.

[ZenArcade]

You'd only get the stupid ones; the smart ones would get richer out of tip offs to invest in rope factory shares. Z

Hit them in the pocket, money is the totality of existance to these vermin.

[Jimmy Baker's Assistant]

Revolution is much more likely to produce a blood-thirsty tyrant as head of state than an enlightened genius. We tried this once and got Oliver Cromwell. He cancelled Christmas.

This coming election is going to produce a hung parliament, and is a fantastic opportunity to effect positive change.

[The Legendary Shark]

The election will change nothing, unfortunately. It's doing the same thing, again, and expecting a different result.