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The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread

Started by Colin YNWA, 22 May, 2016, 02:30:29 PM

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TordelBack

Never heard of Resident Alien,  but Hogan and Parkhouse sounds right up my street!  Pleased to hear 'that notorious fantasist' is still writing too, wonder could he be lured back for something.

Colin YNWA

Quote from: TordelBack on 22 August, 2018, 03:35:06 PM
Never heard of Resident Alien,  but Hogan and Parkhouse sounds right up my street!  Pleased to hear 'that notorious fantasist' is still writing too, wonder could he be lured back for something.

Well waste less time following my rambling nonsense here and more time following my rambling nonsense over at the New Comic Book Day Megathread where I've and other including Hawkmumbler have been shouting about how great this series if mini-series is since it started a good few years ago now.

IndigoPrime is right its excellent.

Link Prime

Quote from: broodblik on 22 August, 2018, 02:58:03 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 21 August, 2018, 09:41:54 PM
Number 3 Big Dave[/b
This is strip that made me stop buying the Prog  :'(

Grud help me, I found it hilarious and still do.

Peaked with Costa Del Chaos though- the panel with Big Dave's plane on fire and crash landing in Tenerife was one of the handful of times I genuinely laughed out load reading the Prog.


Colin YNWA

Well to be honest the Summer Offensive was a bit of a flash in the pan wasn't it. Okay so Inferno goes from bad to worse... or maybe worse to even worse... or even worse to unbelivably bad.... maybe unbeliev... well you get the idea, its just shocking (though as memory serves theres worse to come alas) its all change elsewhere and frankly its as if our little experiment never happened.

We get four 'mini-series' of two parts each, simple palette cleansers. To be honest there's nothing that really stands out - though I was wrong about no more Fleisher Rogue. Anyway its all a chance to catch breathe and it all feels quite safe after what's gone before.

In Prog 852 things get real though. With another launch Prog proper and its not bad. I mean it will be a long time I suspect until we get a 5 for 5 prog, but by now we've all readjusted our expectations right? Mean Arena doesn't really grab, but the opening to Tyranny Rex which follows it more than makes up for that. Its astonishing and just grabs you by the purple prose and powered by frankly astonishing art by Mark Buckingham - some of my favourite ever in 2000ad - we are just drawn straight into a conflicit we might not yet understand, but I can't help but be compelled by.

There is more gorgeous art in the welcome return of Robo-Hunter in a paletable form at long last. I'm a big fan of the Peter Hogan + Rian Hughes Sam Slade though I have to be honest, charming humour aside it doesn't get going in its opener. Slaine is much the same - Glenn Fabry turns in a treat for the eyes, even if the story feels reheated and in some ways is just that.

The thing is while I'm no complete detracter of the difference that Prog 842 introduced this feels like home. Its not a great Prog, though the art is uniformly fantastic, but there's a much richer sense of variety and even if these aren't the best, most compelling openers they give you enough to be glad to be back on familar ground.

Funt Solo

I haven't read prog 852 since it was published 25 years ago, so my opinion may have changed: but I recall liking things in this order (best first):  Tyranny Rex, Slaine, Robo-Hunter, Mean Arena, Dredd: Inferno.  And those last three could be in almost any order.

What's great about 2000AD is that there's quality to be had in all the strips (even when they're in some way sub par), you can probably guarantee that what you disliked was thought of fondly by some other readers and, most importantly, there was always something amazing going on.

1993 was a tricky year but I found Flesh: The Legend of Shamana interesting.  Then we got Firekind, Armoured Gideon, Slaughterbowl, Tyranny Rex and Canon Fodder.
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

Colin YNWA

Quote from: Funt Solo on 27 August, 2018, 05:09:50 AM
... What's great about 2000AD is that there's quality to be had in all the strips (even when they're in some way sub par), you can probably guarantee that what you disliked was thought of fondly by some other readers and, most importantly, there was always something amazing going on.

Yeah I pretty much hold to this. I mean there are a few strips that book the trend but overall they tend to be the ones that commit that cardial 2000ad sin being dull and unmemorable. For just about ever strip I struggle with and mention here someone will find some reason to enjoy it, or often outright love it.

Its one of the joys of 2000ad and 2000ad fandom we're a diverse bunch!

Quote from: Funt Solo on 27 August, 2018, 05:09:50 AM
1993 was a tricky year but I found Flesh: The Legend of Shamana interesting.  Then we got Firekind, Armoured Gideon, Slaughterbowl, Tyranny Rex and Canon Fodder.

I'll save this quote for then I get to the end of the year...

Colin YNWA

So an early start, and good use of breaks during a chore filled bank holiday find me flying through Progs and heading towards the end of 1993. To be honest since since 852 things have been ticking along quite nicely. Robohunter was a cute little short story replaced by an effective Ennis Strontium Dogs story. Dredd improves fractionally as 'Inferno' finishes and Millar does some... well not exactly passible but not as bad as 'Inferno' shorts. Mind 'Book of the Dead' has just started and over at another thread Jim (I think it was) said this was the worst Dredd Epic... now while I don't consider this an epic and I do recall its pretty poor its not 'Crusade' or 'Frankenstein Division' poor if memory serves.

The first 'book' of 'Tyranny Rex - De Ex Machina' is pretty damned excellent. Thrilling, intriguing and full of enough purple prose to surprise you that it actually reads really fluidly. 'Mean Arena' isn't too bad at all. I thought I hated this thrill and it does suffer from yet another charmless hard man hero - but to be honest its biggest problem is it all just feels a bit pointless and cliche - even for the time I suspect. It builds itself on numerous prison and future sport tropes. Its really does have nothing new to say at all BUT isn't as bad as many recent poor thrills.

Really though I'm here to talk about Slaine - Demon Killer. I love this period of Slaine and aside form the early stuff in the first run this is my favourite period of Slaine... yes I've said it I think this is better than 'Horned God' and even 'The King' (which I also prefer to 'Horned God' if I'm honest. Really enjoy this and the next book and think Dermot Power makes a good job of carrying on Glenn Fabry's frankly astonishing art in the first seven parts and as I recall continues to do a great job on Book 2.

Why this resonants with me more than more popular stories I'm not sure. I certainly enjoy a good Roman based story, and this is a little 2000ad does Asterix the Gaul in that there's a lot of fun and roman bashing. Its just here the roman do rather so the effects in ways other than twisted armour, broken spears and lumps and bumps!

But I think its more than that. Its not as if its freed all of the tired themes that Mills labours, however it does push them further back. Its almost as if Mills is liberated by the focus shifting to a lot of anarchic violence. By pushing his Millian thoughts a little to the side they perversely come across more effectively. By not ramming them down our throats and instead ramming axes through a variety of legionaries's torso's it all feels a bit more balanced.

Elfric is also pretty effective here, if a little gauche. He suits the excesses of the popularist view of the Roman Empire and all of Slaine benefits from no 'leyser' guns.

Looking forward to see how much this improvement sustains before the dip, or even crash starts. I'm confident that the next book is great, worry about the Robin Hood one, my confidence returns for the King Author one... but I think after that we'll be in a mire of subpar Slaine... his hit to miss rate is pretty bad in my eyes... or at least my memories minds eye.

We'll see huh...

TordelBack

That Slaine journey will be interesting to watch!  While I had little or no time for this period of Slaine while it was running,  on reading it in the collections there was something good in most of it,  possible exception being the Braveheart one.  The Robin Hood one remains a favourite.

Colin YNWA

Quote from: TordelBack on 27 August, 2018, 08:30:22 PM
That Slaine journey will be interesting to watch!  While I had little or no time for this period of Slaine while it was running,  on reading it in the collections there was something good in most of it,  possible exception being the Braveheart one.  The Robin Hood one remains a favourite.

Yeah have to be honest can't quite remember the order of things I know the Robin Hood one was in before I bailed first time round. Then the Arthur one is after that as that was just as I bailed, though I don't think I got to the second half... all the stuff after I've read since but I'm shakier on the order, but its all a bit rubbish as I recall, the crusades one and the Braveheart one?

Anyway still rattling through today and there are two very contrasting stories that are raising an eyebrow.

Timehouse should be an interesting piece. Its not, but it could have been. The strip I think its most similar to is Zippy Couriers, certainly in tone at least. The trouble is it lacked the courage of that series to be something different. Zippy Couriers knew what it was doing and how it could be so different to 2000ad while still having the drive to fit in. Timehouse could have worked just as well. A slice of life, if that slice of life has a 2000ad twist to it. In this case a house containing all of time. That should cover it, yeah.

Alas not so. It takes that premise, one with such promise and fumbles it by throwing so much in first time out. Not satisfied with a house holding all of time they throw in a fantasy land and Santa. Rather than build the cast we get like eleventyywelve folks chocked by about six plots (most very weak) and nothing gets to gel.

I do wonder if given more time and courage this could have worked. Hogan has real talent and its a great concept, alas this lacked conviction.

One strip that certainly doesn't lack conviction is Cannon Fodder it knows what it wants to be and blasts out the blocks to try to achieve that. The trouble is what it wants to be is Mark Millar doing John Smith and we don't need that cos we have John Smith doing John Smith at this time and Mark Millar has about 0.024% of the guile of our Mr Smith.

Its a shame as it does somethings very well. I was surprised to find that it actually told a relatively simple story. It tricks you into thinking its all slippy and interesting, but its direct and straightforward. In doing that it hangs on loads of bells and whistles in the same way that Timehouse does, however its simple story lets it get away with that. Its tries to push buttons and become better than it is but its forced and very deliberate, unable to relax it wants so badly to be what its not. That being as intelligent and as crafted as a John Smith story. Its uses shock value where John Smith can be shocking. It uses cheap thrills when John Smith can be thrilling. Its smart ass where as John Smith is smart.

Two tales of what could have been then.

Colin YNWA

1994 Specials

"Even bigger guns!!!" proclaims the 1994 Sci-Fi Special and in one sentence, with three exclaimation marks, we have neatly summarised one of 2000ad's biggest problems at this time. Why is that important, they might as well have said "With more pouches than a Liefeld comic!!!$%%£^!".

Anyway inside its not actually too bad an interesting John Smith Friday Rogue story, an okay Bix Barton, a slightly meandering Brigand Doom (what did happen to the gun?) an okay Manic 5 and an almost very interesting Strontium Dogs, with a very mysterious particle and I think views on religion. Not too bad for one of these Specials of this time. Even the reprint looks great and in the case of Dredd (the only Dredd is reprint which is interesting) one of my favs in 'I, monster' with Cam Kennedy.

The Winter Special is worthy of note for packing a LOT of strips in with hardly any filler, or text pieces. You really do get a lot of comic for your money. I mean, sure its not all good, but still.

Sonny Steelgrove makes his Dredd debut (I think its his first) Dredd, of course just another name for Alan McKenzie to write himself a paycheck (though to be fair I don't think he was the editor at this point?). This one, with Dredd inexplicably trapped in an interrogation cell with a prisoner,  isn't as smart I you get the impression it wants to be.

Two strips that made their debut never to return (I think maybe Tracer pops up again given it got an A-Z entry recently, don't remember it doing so???) in Canned Heat and Tracer, neither is really missed. A handy dandy recap in Brigand Doom, Toa do Moto seems to set up a sequel which we never get? A Tharg strip showing these once fun little sideshows have lost much of their charm. We also get two stories setting up the next appearance of characters in the Prog in Janus and Manic 5. Neither of which really add to the final product if we're honest.

So yeah a lot of bang for your (comic)book. Much of it foreshadowing stuff that will appear in 1994 (I think) but a lot of it never really seeing light of day. So the Winter Special becomes a very real testing ground... which in a couple of years will really pay off big time, but thats for 1996.

IndigoPrime

That's the '93 special, isn't it? For me, that was a major comedown. 1992's special was one of my favourite 2000 AD things at the time – some fab Nemesis, a chilling Indigo Prime, and a decent Blackblood. (Let's ignore Millar Does Misogyny... Again in the otherwise nicely illustrated Tales From Beyond Science.) And then 1993 was just so... inconsequential. A dumping ground for crap the publisher no longer had space for elsewhere (what with Altern-8, or whatever it was called, not being greenlit), surrounded by other crap. Also, quite what someone was thinking with the Psi Div uniform designs feature, I don't know.

Greg M.

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 28 August, 2018, 09:15:43 AM

Sonny Steelgrove makes his Dredd debut (I think its his first) Dredd, of course just another name for Alan McKenzie to write himself a paycheck (though to be fair I don't think he was the editor at this point?). This one, with Dredd inexplicably trapped in an interrogation cell with a prisoner,  isn't as smart I you get the impression it wants to be.

The pseudonym was shared by Mackenzie and Tomlinson - though this is credited in a collected edition as a Mackenzie story, he says he didn't write it, so it must be a Tomlinson.

Colin YNWA

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 28 August, 2018, 10:29:47 AM
That's the '93 special, isn't it?

You are quite right of course I was foolishly using the annual years for the specials as well. Please replace all reference to 1994 with 1993...

Except here as I'm talking about Yearbook 1994 and in this case I mean that.

Its not that bad. I mean its not brilliant, but I was really down on these and they haven't been entirely terrible.

This one has a glorious and fun Dredd by Wagner and Burns. A forboding Tyranny Rex. A foreshadowing Luke Kirby. For... cute Rob-Hunter (the good Hogan and Hughes kind). A formidable Big Dave origin... and an okay Terror Tale.

Mind to balance that we get a pretty terrible Tharg, The Clown and Rogie (original) by Millar with some pretty ugly art.

Amongst all that there is the intriguing 'Burning Man'. Clearly this was meant to be the start of something by Ezquerra and ??? John Wagner according to Barney... I wonder what. I'm sure it will have been mentioned down the line somewhere but I can't remember where? Anyway interesting.

Greg M.

Like Canned Heat and Tracer, Burning Man is a leftover from the aborted Earthside 8 comic. It's a shame nothing more came of it.

Colin YNWA

Twofer from me this evening as we bring 1993 to an end with Prog 867

What a chuffin' annoyin' Prog. Not specifically the content, but an end of year Prog with three chuffin' new thrills starting... normally this would be a right pain, however fortunately my read / re-read block is clear and I'll be moving onto the new year pretty much straight away a quick trip to the nerd cave willin'...

Oh and how are those new thrills. Well first they are surrounded by needless Dredd and the end to Cannon Fodder that neither adds or takes away from what I said last night. Soul Gun Warrior and Revere Book III sit really well with better elements of the bold and thrusting teenage 2000ad. Smart and edgy, different and intriguing the very best of the new age. To be fair Mother Earth tries to be this too... its just not really there yet. Still it avoids the worst excesses of the bland hard man and so we'll give it the benefit of the doubt for now... mind as my memory of it is filled with much doubt I'm not sure why!

Anyway the end of 1993 says much the time we are in. Its trying really hard to find its place and at moments its youthful rigour and pretensions shine through as vital genius... but then like all teenagers at other times it can be a bit of a daft cock!