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Author Topic: Design Ethics  (Read 2022 times)

Banners

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Design Ethics
« on: 28 January, 2005, 08:30:04 PM »
Some of you seem to be in the design-type field, which is something I'm kind of new to, so I was wondering what the ethics are around this situation...

Basically, when you pitch, the potential suppliers all send in some mock-up designs to help the Client choose the best agency for them. Fair enough.

However, what happens if a potential Client comes to a decision and says "We really like someone else's design, but you're cheaper. So can you please go-ahead but do it based on their mock-up."

Ethically, surely that's not something I should take on. But how do I respond in a way that doesn't lose the job? Do I offer to 'buy' the design off the other supplier? Hmmmmmm....

Cheers,

M@

LARF

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Re: Design Ethics
« Reply #1 on: 28 January, 2005, 08:44:35 PM »
Hi Banners

Been on both ends of this dilemma.

What I tend to do is ask the client to go back to the agency who's work they like and ask them to lower their costs. It could do you out of work, BUT, there is nothing worse than doing as a client requests and then getting slaughtered by your peers when they discover what youu have done.

The way I see it is that the client does not like your work, which in itself is their perogative, but they are asking you to plagarise another person's work and ideas, which in all essence they have won creatively fair and square. If they are charging more then it's up to the client to think whether they can afford it or not, not ask the cheaper guy to copy another designers work, it's quite insulting to you really. This is why I never do free pitches, people should be able to judge your credentials, experience and creativity by your bag, and they should be expected to pay for that skill and effort, not be god almighty and judgemental when it comes to cost.

Sorry this is a knarly area for me as it's happened a couple of times in the past where some 'cheap' agency has recreated my work, with a twist, and I've seen it in mags etc. not on.

Wils

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Re: Design Ethics
« Reply #2 on: 28 January, 2005, 08:45:35 PM »
Huge "No!". Not only a moral and ethical can of worms, but also a legal one. The person or company who submitted the mock-up that they want stealing owns the copyright of the design and therefore could sue.

If this happened, the cheapo-stealo company would more than likely deny requesting the plagiarism and heft all the shit onto their cheaper designer who they would also sack to save face (and immense amaounts of cash).

Valhalla

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Re: Design Ethics
« Reply #3 on: 28 January, 2005, 08:47:43 PM »
Bit of  a delicate one there.

I don't know much about the legalities but I would assume if you pinched the design or a significant portion of it there would be a lot of trouble.

However If you approached the other designer to buy the rights or take him on board as co-producer he would be fairly likely to tell you to stick it! I can't see that he would have anything to gain by selling the design as you would be undercutting him. For you to undercut him you'd have to buy the desin for les than he was going to do it for. He would also lose the intellectual property rights and credit for his work which most designers abhor.

Val

johnnystress

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Re: Design Ethics
« Reply #4 on: 28 January, 2005, 08:51:29 PM »
Hi Matt- this is a good forum for that type of poser

I'm almost sure it's come up a few times too

It's Irish based but there are many universal topics disussed

good one for your bookmarks

www.

Link: creativeireland forums


Matt

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Re: Design Ethics
« Reply #5 on: 28 January, 2005, 09:01:21 PM »
This does happen all the time I'm afraid. the best work-a-round I've found is to accept the job on the condition that you don't actually see the other agencies pitch, but the client briefs you in on the job based on the mock up. That way you're not wholeheartedly stealing another design, but interpreting the brief. Usually it'll be different enough to keep your reputation & pride intact!

Banners

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Re: Design Ethics
« Reply #6 on: 28 January, 2005, 09:05:43 PM »
Thanks fellas - just as I thought. Would hate this situation to happen to me!

I'm gonna reply that we're happy to do the work but only based on developing our own design.

If we lose the job - then fair play to the other designer. He met the brief better than us and I can't argue with that. Although the Client may pay a bit more, they will ultimately end up with what they want to see. And, no sleepless nights for me - so everyone's happy....!

Thanks again. Also - is there a UK equivalent of Jonny's Irish creative forum out there?

M@

johnnystress

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Re: Design Ethics
« Reply #7 on: 28 January, 2005, 09:49:30 PM »
Heres a useful link - might consider joining up

Link: Graphic Arts Guild


Matt Timson

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Re: Design Ethics
« Reply #8 on: 28 January, 2005, 11:54:02 PM »
Turn it down and give the other guy the heads up on what the client asked you to do.

I'd love my job if not for all the shit sucking clients...
Pffft...

Art

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Re: Design Ethics
« Reply #9 on: 29 January, 2005, 12:04:11 AM »
I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. They're already ripping off this other guy, what's to stop them ripping off you?

Tiplodocus

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Re: Design Ethics
« Reply #10 on: 29 January, 2005, 01:03:03 AM »
Yep - stop thinking short term.  You'll end up with  client you don't trust (they did it to X so they'll probably do it to Y), a client who doesn't really trust you (if you are willing to do this what else will you do for a quick book) and the other agency is bound to find out (they always do) and they'll hate you.

The fact that you are asking the question suggests to me that you know it's not right already. Why do something that you know isn't right?
Be excellent to each other. And party on!

johnnystress

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Re: Design Ethics
« Reply #11 on: 02 February, 2005, 05:06:48 PM »
Matt

here is a UK design forum- which might be more useful to you
http://www.designcrowd.com/

Link: DesignCrowd


Devons Daddy

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Re: Design Ethics
« Reply #12 on: 02 February, 2005, 05:16:03 PM »
this is normal in this region.

i have been involved as executive chef with 4 projects of this style.large scale kitchens with the overall cost well into 6 figures.

the normal decsion came to was to pay the designers whom we liked the layout off but not the equipment or materails quoted a fee for the plan a sort of consultanty if you wish based on a quantum % of the differnce in the cost of the two short listed companies. which is then charged into the overall project cost.

at the end both companies are noted on the design specs and publications notices.
something to the effect of

consultant designers BLAH BLAH BLAH
contracted designers and constructed by BLAH BLAH BLAH.

its common practise in SE Asia, but things are a bit differnt here.  

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IndigoPrime

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Re: Design Ethics
« Reply #13 on: 02 February, 2005, 06:00:07 PM »
And this is the precise reason why I never do anything on spec...