The Political Thread

[JOE SOAP]

Also WHY DO YOU PUT UP WITH IT?

Then we'd have less to moan and do nothing about.

[Old Tankie]

Apparently, it's been a very hot summer in Poland, so to cool down visitors to Auschwitz instead of offering them each a bottle of water, the camp authorities decided to put up a line of misters to shower their guests as they entered.

[TordelBack]

As my parents are good Union types, I'd been raised to believe that our Republic's healthcare system was the same for everyone, and private insurance was only for getting an ensuite private room, convenient appointment times and the Irish Times and croissants for breakfast. Then my Dad became very ill (undiagnosed diabetes leading to critical heart disease), and we traipsed around hospitals, sitting in endless queues, waiting endlessly for test results that were as often as not misplaced, only to be told by two successive Consultants that there was nothing that could be done, that a bypass operation wouldn't work and would most likely kill him, he would probably be dead by the end of the year and he should enjoy his remaining time instead (bearing in mind he could no longer walk and barely talk at this point).

So in desperation we went to the private Blackrock Clinic for a third opinion, with little expectation of anything but more waiting and more disappointment. At the first appointment the actual heart surgeon who would do the operation confirmed that she would operate as soon as possible, and 3 months and one quadruple bypass later it was done. The operation was in the same hospital we visited for the first consultation, with the same ICU team, and the guy in the public bed beside him had been waiting 3 years for the same treatment by the same staff.

That was 14 years ago. My Dad has seen all his kids happily married, dotes on four grandchildren, and continues, at 72, to enjoy a decade-long second career as a tour guide.  All because, and only because, he went private - in the public system he'd be dead at least a dozen years.. That is utterly and completely and on every level WRONG.

That's anecdotal of course, but it has entirely shaped what I think about a quasi-privatized health system. I have maintained private health insurance for my family, even through those times we could afford  either fresh food nor current Prog.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Really glad your Dad is in good health, and it's made me seriously consider health insurance.  A friend of mine with liver cancer strongly advised it too - sadly he didn't make it, but he was looked after with utmost care and spent his last months in peace and comfort (his only real complaint being that they filtered his internet porn...).
We're not quite in Breaking Bad territory in Ireland yet, but we have a lot to learn from the NHS, a system to cherish, be proud of and fight for.

[The Legendary Shark]

Well, I thought it was a good metaphor anyway.

[maryanddavid]

That's anecdotal of course,

Anecdotal and true. I have health insurance, and would not be without it.  The public system is fine, even brilliant once you get past A&E for most run of the mill hospital needs, breaks, maternity etc. IF you need a consultant, in my experience you need health insurance.
It gives priority to all procedures and access to doctors above everyone else in the public system, In the FXXKING public hosptial. The whole system is on its head and IMO there is only one winner, the consultants.
Having insurance, I am part of the problem, but I have four kids, and I have had the misfortune to have to use the insurance, and the luck to have it.
I don't get overly excerised about most political stuff, I see thousands on the street protesting over a utility bill for a service received, and that an awful lot of people in the country have been paying for for years, but no one protesting over the A&E overcrowding or the fact that I can have my child's tonsils taken out next week, but my neighbour with no insurance will have to wait months for their child to be seen IN THE SAME HOSPITAL.
GRRRRRR.

[TordelBack]

I don't get overly excerised about most political stuff, I see thousands on the street protesting over a utility bill for a service received, and that an awful lot of people in the country have been paying for for years, but no one protesting over the A&E overcrowding or the fact that I can have my child's tonsils taken out next week, but my neighbour with no insurance will have to wait months for their child to be seen IN THE SAME HOSPITAL.
GRRRRRR.

Exactly my thoughts. If it wasn't causing the government such hassle. I'd honestly believe Irish Water was a deliberate smokescreen to distract from the real issues in health. Meanwhile the HSE asks for an additional 2 billion in its budget projections, and despite plainly being crippled over the last decade and not fit for purpose at the A&E end, everybody just tuts and heads out to the next water protest.

I should probably clarify that I feel like an utter hypocrite for having health insurance, I understand the distorting impact it has on the service and queue jumping  is anathema to me, but I can't risk my kids' health to a system I know to be so unfair.

[The Legendary Shark]

Is your health insurance means-tested or fixed rate?
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Back to the policy issue, things like the TTIP, which you weren't supposed to take much interest in or even know about, drive policy to a large extent and from behind closed doors.

[The Legendary Shark]

For all you Statists out there: Jeremy Corbyn's "Quantitative Easing for People": The UK Labour Frontrunner's Controversial Proposal.

[Professor Bear]

What economists don't like about Quantitative Easing is that it prints money with no worth - but the beauty of doing so in this instance is that the debt it's to be used to pay off is equally imaginary.

Anyone bother with the Labour leadership debate last night?  If not, it can be found HERE, although it's not terribly interesting until near the end when Yvette Cooper starts to lose the rag as it becomes apparent that the audience has got behind Corbyn big time, so she attempts to subtly manipulate the situation to her own advantage by shouting over Corbyn - and the other candidates, and the guy moderating the debate - by going on a lengthy rant that stops short of name-calling and which pointedly ignores Kendall and Burnham.  So not at all frustrated by the way the contest is going, then...

She needn't worry, though, as word from Labour HQ is that less than half of the new sign-ups have returned their ballots, so it looks like they're already building their narrative: "people signed up but they didn't vote."
The fix is in, I tells ya.

[The Legendary Shark]

And what happens if Corbyn wins? Let's imagine that Corbyn, or some other 'good' politician miraculously defies all the machinations of the Powers That (Shouldn't) Be and gains office. Then let's imagine that parliament cares about what he has to say. What then?
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Will we have a ruler who sits down and issues a piece of paper saying that you won't be bossed around quite as much and will be allowed to keep more of what you earn? Isn't that simply a case of softer slavery? A slightly more benign slavemaster up at the big house?
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And when he's gone, what's to stop a worse slavemaster taking his place and returning us all to exactly where we are today, or worse?
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Things will never change until we see democratic government for what it really is - a merry-go-round of tyrants designed to give us the illusion of choice.

[Professor Bear]

There's an anthropological study somewhere where scientists taught monkeys to push a button inside a cage with an electrified floor.  The button switched off the current to the floor of the cage, but only for a few minutes at a time, and the monkeys eventually learned that pushing the button every so often made their lives a bit less horrible - but in the interests of "science", the buttons were removed from the cages of some monkeys to see what they'd do.  Devoid of the one bit of power they had over their conditions, they would become frustrated and tear at their fur, bite themselves in acts of self-harm, attack each other - and eventually they just laid down on the floor, accepting the situation for what it was.

[ZenArcade]

Whats wrong with getting some torches, pitchforks, a disgruntled mob and burning the local castle anyway? Z

[The Legendary Shark]

That's called 'learned helplessness,' Bear. There have been several studies on it.
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Z, burning the castle never works - someone always comes along to rebuild it with thicker, higher walls.
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The solution is to realise that you are one out of seven billion people. Nobody is above you and nobody is below you. Nobody has the right to boss you about or take your stuff and you don't have the right to boss anybody about or take their stuff. You have the rights you have and the resources you possess and that's it.
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As for everything else, you have the right to organise with your neighbours, community and society to address whatever needs addressing in whichever way you see fit within the limits of your rights. That's all you need.
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We have to stop thinking that everything that needs addressing must be addressed by an infinitesimally small group of thieving, villainous bullies who think it's all right to force their solutions on you.
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If we stop playing their game, stop supporting them and find our own solutions, what are they going to do? They will be demoted from bullies to a mere nuisance. That's how I look at the "authorities," as nothing more or less than a nuisance.

[JPMaybe]

And what happens if Corbyn wins? Let's imagine that Corbyn, or some other 'good' politician miraculously defies all the machinations of the Powers That (Shouldn't) Be and gains office. Then let's imagine that parliament cares about what he has to say. What then?
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Will we have a ruler who sits down and issues a piece of paper saying that you won't be bossed around quite as much and will be allowed to keep more of what you earn? Isn't that simply a case of softer slavery? A slightly more benign slavemaster up at the big house?

No, because literally nobody but other internet lolbertarians share your hyperbolic, ridiculously myopic, definition of slavery.