Casual Racial Insensitivity.

DavidXBrunt · 18 August, 2002, 06:07:29 PM

The title of this thread is a quote from King Troutman, commenting on 'The Incident on Mayjor Minor' when he describes the caption - 'Next Issue: Chinky Take-Away' (I don't have it, so I'm paraphrasing Troutmans words). He also says in terms of 'casual racial insensitivity' "it's right up there with 'Tojo' and 'Blakee Pentax'". ('Blakee Pentax' is from the RoboHunter tale about the World Cup, and 'Tojo' from a cover that saw Dredd fighting a samurai type if my memory serves)

Now he's raising a valid point there. I doubt that either Wagner or Grant are actually racist, Stontium Dog is all about tolerance and the evils that are performed on people who are different. So when they use terms like that are they just making fun of racial stereotypes? Or just casually making comments they don't mean to have any depth?

I doubt they's use terms like that now, and I'd be seriously offended if they did, so are we just to take it as something that was more acceptable when the comic began (a generation ago!) and accept it, or should these terms be blanked out in future reprints?

Wagner and Grant have an admiral record for featuring characters in strips that are more than just white men. (Wagner & Mills wrote in a companion into their 'Doctor Who' strips that was Black and Working Class nearly two decades before the next non white companion) So it's very interesting to me that these comments exist.

And in this context what do we make of Alan Grants comments in a recent 'T.P.O.' in the meg that 'Blakee Pentax' was fun sounding but meaningless gibberish? Has he misremembered? Does he geniunely think that? or is he saying that to cover up something that he now regrets, to distance himself from a mistake?

Anyway, what do you all think?

Leigh S · 18 August, 2002, 06:40:59 PM

And then there's Bogie Man - China toon...

W. R. Logan · 18 August, 2002, 07:34:06 PM

>And in this context what do we make of Alan Grants comments in a recent 'T.P.O.' in the meg that 'Blakee Pentax' was fun sounding but meaningless gibberish? Has he misremembered? Does he geniunely think that? or is he saying that to cover up something that he now regrets, to distance himself from a mistake?

I doubt if John and Alan spent more than a few micro seconds contemplating the reference to 'Blakee Pentax' and would seriously doubt they even thought that in 20 years it would be a topic for discussion and much searching for the hidden meaning.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

Link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theclassof79" target="_blank">Class Of '79 Yahoo Group

http://www.2000adonline.com/covers/2000ad/mediumres/285.jpg">

sigu · 18 August, 2002, 07:53:25 PM

I always thought 'blakee pentax' was hilarious at the time and it's my favourite Robohunter gag. However a couple of weeks ago my Pentax did indeed 'blake' and I now have a repair bill of nearly ?100, so perhaps there's a lesson for all of us.

SiG

sigu · 18 August, 2002, 07:56:39 PM

Oh yes, I forgot. I also thought Alan Grant's recollection in TPO of 'blakee pentax' was strange.

But I also think that, as racially oriented jokes go, gently mocking a foreign accent and observing that the Japanese make cameras and their tourists like to take a lot of photos is hardly something to worry about.

SiG

Smiley · 18 August, 2002, 11:57:32 PM

We've been here before, back in Thread 2040, IIRC.

satchmo · 19 August, 2002, 01:52:44 AM

we have to remember how long ago some of these stories were,look at the racism in 70s sitcoms for instance,or the variety shows that had Bernard Manning and all his hilarious chums.

W. R. Logan · 19 August, 2002, 04:56:39 AM

>We've been here before, back in Thread 2040, IIRC.

Thats the trouble with message boards and newsgroups, the same questions and answers have a habit of being repeated from time to time.

>We've been here before, back in Thread 2040, IIRC.

Thats the trouble with message boards and newsgroups, the same questions and answers have a habit of being repeated from time to time.

>We've been here before, back in Thread 2040, IIRC.

Thats the trouble with message boards and newsgroups, the same questions and answers have a habit of being repeated from time to time.

>We've been here before, back in Thread 2040, IIRC.

Thats the trouble with message boards and newsgroups, the same questions and answers have a habit of being repeated from time to time.

>We've been here before, back in Thread 2040, IIRC.

Thats the trouble with message boards and newsgroups, the same questions and answers have a habit of being repeated from time to time.

>We've been here before, back in Thread 2040, IIRC.

Thats the trouble with message boards and newsgroups, the same questions and answers have a habit of being repeated from time to time.

>We've been here before, back in Thread 2040, IIRC.

Thats the trouble with message boards and newsgroups, the same questions and answers have a habit of being repeated from time to time.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

Link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theclassof79" target="_blank">Class Of '79 Yahoo Group

http://www.2000adonline.com/covers/specials/mediumres/starlord08.jpg">

O Lucky Stevie! · 19 August, 2002, 03:25:20 PM

excuse me, logan, but shouldn't your your suject heading read, "Re: Causal Racial Insensitivity"?

i've wet my knickers!
steven l'enfant terrible

O Lucky Stevie! · 19 August, 2002, 03:26:40 PM

or even your subject heading, at that.

i've wet my knickers!
steven l'enfant terrible

Trout · 19 August, 2002, 04:03:26 PM

Just for the record, we only discussed Blakee Pentax.

Taking this in a different direction, perhaps, the "chinky takeaway" phrase was born of a long-held 2K obsession with bad puns.

I'm sure we can all come up with examples, but the chinky comment was what I would call casual racism because there was no thought involved.

It was just there as a daft gag.

I'd be interested to know if the writer, artist or simply a sub-editor makes/made up the "Next Prog" messages. It could be the writer is receiving unfair criticism here.

Also, I found Blakee Pentax quite funny, at the time. Yes, it was racist, but it was a different time, even just those few years ago. It's certainly a lot more gentle, as someone has suggested in this Thread.

On crap puns, anyone have any cringeworthy memories?

- Trout

Mudcrab · 19 August, 2002, 04:09:14 PM

I wouldn't have thought it was worth worrying about, or even thinking about.

"or should these terms be blanked out in future reprints?"

Absolutely not! Can you imagine all the Bond films, all the Pink Panther films, in fact almost any TV from the 60's/70's just cos everyone didn't know what politically correct meant.

If someone reads it now and feels a bit shocked, then fine, the worlds a better place than it was yesterday. If they laugh instead, then the worlds a better place. There's books at home that I read when I was a kid called "Little Black Sambo". It's a wee story from yeeeears ago that would probably get you arrested for reading in public. Now that's ridiculous. Or is it? Didn't seem to affect the way I think, apart from pointing out that black people existed beyond famine stricken Africa on Blue Peter.

Anyway, getting a bit off the point now. Any censorship of anything, especially the past is WRONG. Have you seen Ghost World. There's a bit in that that points out exactly what this means. It's like the golliwog on the jam jar. Why's that still there. Cos no one cares, that's why. People care about kids being brought up by ignorant morons who think that immigrants are taking our jobs away. That's what needs to change, not comics from 20 years ago! Real Big Daves, that's what the problem is. So there you go, why on earth would "Blakee Pentax" be censored if Big Dave wasn't? Ah yes, satire. Ok, then call it satire and it's fine.

Right, on with some work I think!

Trout · 19 August, 2002, 05:24:27 PM

I read Ghost World over the weekend for the first time, so I take your point.

I've never been happy about any sort of censorship (I'm a journalist, so it's instict, really), including banning Scojo indefinitely, but that's another Thread.

However, the use of anything controversial has to work in context.

I would submit Blakee Pentax was a lot easier to digest than Tojo, because it was essentially a humour strip, although that doesn't mean I think we should do anything like that nowadays.

On Ghost World, I felt it was pretty dull stuff. The Hernandez Brothers do it better.

- Trout

Mudcrab · 19 August, 2002, 05:40:26 PM

"However, the use of anything controversial has to work in context. "

Very true, it's very easy to say or write something with an intent in mind, but for that intent to be recognised by everyone that reads it is far harder.

"On Ghost World, I felt it was pretty dull stuff"

It was really, but still more enjoyable than your average dross that Hollywood/Blockbuster churn out every week. Gasping for a good new film! Perhaps even a Dredd one? :o)

JimBob · 19 August, 2002, 05:52:30 PM

Hmm. I really don't like seeing people worrying over things like this. I don't particularly see any of the examples sited as racist, why is it OK for Wulf to have a comedy accent but not for a Japanese character? Don't go looking for racism where there isn't any, it just makes it harder to identify the real thing.

JimBob

I wait with trepidation for another white male to point out I'm a white male and don't know what I'm talking about, while never spotting the doublethink inherent in that.