The Political Thread

Beaky Smoochies · 05 July, 2012, 03:37:09 AM

Quote from: Strontium Claw on 04 July, 2012, 03:31:18 PM
You do realise that it's possible to dislike the actions of the Israeli state (or disagree with its existence full stop) without disliking the people in it?
In a sort of, you know... hate the sin, love the sinner kind of thing

Absolutely, lots of Israelis strongly disagree with the actions of their government, and I'm certainly not calling them anti-semites; one is a political opinion, the other is an outright prejudice, sometimes they're separate, sometimes the two converge, such is life...

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 04 July, 2012, 04:08:25 PM
The irony. In the same sentence you accuse others of making blanket 'right-wing' generalisations yet you then proceed with a blanket 'liberal' generalisation? You're better than that Mr. Beaks.

You're absolutely right there, Joe my friend, I wholeheartedly withdraw that unfair generalization, my bad, apologies all round, did it aga-

, hang on a mo', did you just pay me a compliment there Joe, I'm "better than that" you say, well there goes your credibility on this forum...

SuperSurfer · 05 July, 2012, 08:14:59 PM

Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 03 July, 2012, 12:02:06 PM
Capitalism, Communism, Zionism, Nazism, Marxism, Catholicism, Federalism - they're all the same animal. The Greater Spotted Ism is a curious beast with a flair for camouflage and a seductive song. All Isms require resources to survive and jostle for position as Alpha Ism and they do this by appealing to the baser fears and desires of human nature; presenting problems and then providing solutions and rewards. Isms need followers to survive and zealots for the jostling. And as these majestic Isms lock horns in the eternal struggle for supremacy, countless Ordinary People are swept along and trampled underfoot.

Our ancestors tamed wolves and wildcats and oxen and horses. Maybe it's time we did our bit for human evolution and tamed the Isms.

Ismist.

JOE SOAP · 05 July, 2012, 08:34:24 PM

Quote from: Beaky Smoochies on 05 July, 2012, 03:37:09 AM
did you just pay me a compliment there Joe, I'm "better than that" you say, well there goes your credibility on this forum...

Get it while it's good.

The Legendary Shark · 05 July, 2012, 09:25:07 PM

Quote from: SuperSurfer on 05 July, 2012, 08:14:59 PM
Ismist.

Anti-Ismite?

DeFuzzed · 12 July, 2012, 10:59:14 PM

Can someone fill me in on this voter ID issue that's upsetting the Democrats so much over the pond? They're against it and I'm a bit confused as I thought having ID would help prevent the fraud issues they are constantly harping on about at every single election.

Roger Godpleton · 13 July, 2012, 01:58:39 AM

Becase Barack Hussain Osama wants to help his terrorist buddies from being discovered so they can BOMB THE POLLING STATIONS. WAKE UP SHEEPLE BARRY SOTERO IS ONE OF THEM.

DAY 1 JOB ONE REpel UNCONSTITUTION OBAMATERRORISTMUSLIMCARE.

Beaky Smoochies · 13 July, 2012, 05:39:51 AM

Quote from: DeFuzzed on 12 July, 2012, 10:59:14 PM
Can someone fill me in on this voter ID issue that's upsetting the Democrats so much over the pond? They're against it and I'm a bit confused as I thought having ID would help prevent the fraud issues they are constantly harping on about at every single election.

Republican state governors want to make sure anyone who votes is both eligible to do so and is actually a U.S. citizen in order to do so, Democrats rely on voter fraud to win elections - JFK's theft of the 1960 election, the dubious Washington state gubernatorial result in 2004, and Al Franken's highly-suspect Senate win in 2008 being the best examples - and thus don't want ANY voter ID laws whatsoever, using the most inflammatory racially-tinged rhetoric to try and paint the GOP as racists to ethnic minorities, whose votes Obama simply has to get in order to win in November... the fact that just about every western developed country in the world (except the U.S.) has voter ID laws seems to have escaped them!

Probably stirring up another hornet's nest here, but don't care, Dredd reviews are mostly enthusiastic and overwhelmingly positive, so I'm feeling invincible right now, tomorrow'll be a different matter probably...

Frank · 13 July, 2012, 07:16:55 AM

Quote from: Beaky Smoochies on 13 July, 2012, 05:39:51 AM
Quote from: DeFuzzed on 12 July, 2012, 10:59:14 PM
Can someone fill me in on this voter ID issue that's upsetting the Democrats so much over the pond? They're against it and I'm a bit confused as I thought having ID would help prevent the fraud issues they are constantly harping on about at every single election.

Republican state governors want to make sure anyone who votes is both eligible to do so and is actually a U.S. citizen in order to do so, Democrats rely on voter fraud to win elections - JFK's theft of the 1960 election, the dubious Washington state gubernatorial result in 2004, and Al Franken's highly-suspect Senate win in 2008 being the best examples - and thus don't want ANY voter ID laws whatsoever, using the most inflammatory racially-tinged rhetoric to try and paint the GOP as racists to ethnic minorities, whose votes Obama simply has to get in order to win in November... the fact that just about every western developed country in the world (except the U.S.) has voter ID laws seems to have escaped them!

Democrats steal elections? (cough) Bush/Cheney 2000 [cough)

Beaky Smoochies · 13 July, 2012, 07:44:13 AM

Quote from: bikini kill on 13 July, 2012, 07:16:55 AM
Democrats steal elections? (cough) Bush/Cheney 2000 [cough)

Don't believe the agitprop about that election, Bush/Cheney won that election fair and square, every - and I mean EVERY - count in Florida had the GOP ticket ahead of the Gore/Lieberman one, not by much granted, but it was ahead, even after EIGHT recounts, and the Supreme Court stopped any further recounts because every one before had shown Dubya ahead, the Civil Rights Commission even conducted a six-month investigation into reports that minorities had their votes uncounted or weren't able to vote at all, and do you know how many verifiable cases of disenfranchisement they found; ZERO, that's right, not one single case! Gore/Lieberman got 500, 000 more votes nationally than Bush/Cheney, but the Presidential election isn't a popular vote, it's an electoral college one (thank goodness too), and Bush/Cheney won Florida by 527 votes, thereby taking that state, and by extension, the Presidency... case closed.

DeFuzzed · 13 July, 2012, 07:55:53 AM

Thanks. For a minute there, I thought I was missing something and being all thick like but it turns out it's that same cognitive dissonance that happened when I heard about Palin's VP bid, and thought - 'at least they can't go at her from the experience point since he has none' - only to see them going at her experience.

And going further back, when Hillary Clinton got more votes than him and he still got the nomination. The result is there, clear as day, and yet. Democrats indeed.

Richmond Clements · 13 July, 2012, 08:30:06 AM

Christ, there's two of them now.

DeFuzzed · 13 July, 2012, 08:51:44 AM

Just saying it as I see it. If you can point out anything I said that was wrong, please do. If you can answer my question with a different answer to Beaky's, then please do. I have absolutely no problems with admitting when I'm wrong.

My question was an honest one, since I was too lazy to research the answer for myself and as I was trying to stay awake for Dredd news, I explored this forum and discovered you lot talking politics here. Seemed a good place to get my curiosity sated.

By the way, I'm a LibDem (standing by Clegg despite heckling from all sides; it's a tough job but someone has to do it) - if you're going down the path of accusing me of being rightwing; or if accusing me of racism, I'm a brownie with a yellowish tinge. But as I'm sure we all know, being both of those doesn't mean I can't have rightwing or racist tendencies, so I'm just laying this out for full disclosure purposes only.

Richmond Clements · 13 July, 2012, 09:34:48 AM

Amazing that Beaky can dismiss the claim of voter fraud in the Florida instance, but happily and hypocritically can make the same claim about JFK without the need to back anything up.
Worse still is that you seem to just be happy to accept what he says as fact because it gels with your own preconceived notions.
Just calling it like I see it...

Mikey · 13 July, 2012, 10:27:50 AM

Quote from: Richmond Clements on 13 July, 2012, 08:30:06 AM
Christ, there's two of them now.

Where's the gruddamn 'like' button?

M.

DeFuzzed · 13 July, 2012, 10:30:15 AM

My preconceived notions were that it didn't make sense to not require ID while voting. Just to show folks that I have the right to vote for whatever it is. Like I have to when I go to vote in my polling station here in London. To resist having that kind of ID, the only reason I could think of was if you didn't have that right and wanted to hide that fact.

But it couldn't be that since no one would support cheating in elections, not in the land of the free, not openly anyway, so that's why I was confused and why I asked you here to help clear it up for me.

Were there other issues like privacy? Tracking? I remember ID cards were scrapped here too, for similar reasons I think. (Or maybe it was too costly, can't remember exactly). Same with the voter ID?

Your initial answer was something about terrorists, sounded like you were joking so I ignored it. And yes, Beaky responded with what I was assuming so I thought I had understood it right in the first place. As unlikely as it had seemed, because American politics had confused me like this before.

Was there voter fraud in all those elections? I have no idea, having never looked into it in much depth. But I do know that one party doesn't have the evil crown and the other a halo so I'm sure if voter fraud happens, all parties have had their share of it.