Main Menu

Does my Art look big in this?

Started by staticgirl, 10 February, 2010, 02:33:48 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

CrazyFoxMachine

Quote from: CrazyFoxMachine on 12 May, 2010, 12:32:27 PM
QuoteCharacter A holds up Character B and electrocutes him using his powered gauntlets. In the background, characters C and D advance cautiously. Behind them all, Dredd bursts into the room, gun drawn.

How much pagespace did the script give you for that - ? Whenever I draw from someone else's script I normally end up creating extra panels or squeezing down others. Although thankfully I've found the perfect way to get around the whole process is to not be good enough to be asked to draw anything. It works for me.

CrazyFoxMachine

what in bloody hell happened there?!?! Now my horrendous self-deprication is in TRIPLICATE.  :-[ How do you delete posts?!

radiator

Use the 'edit' button in the top right.

Quote
How much pagespace did the script give you for that

I think that was one of 7 or 8 panels(!) so not much!

Jim_Campbell

Quote from: radiator on 12 May, 2010, 12:21:24 PM
I literally could not work out a way to get all of that information into a single panel - and the result was a disaster!

If I may re-use a piece of advice I offered via e-mail recently ...

QuoteSpeaking with my writer's hat on: writers are idiots. They have no clue how much information can be conveyed in a panel. As an artist, it's your job to fix the script! I haven't written a script that's been illustrated where the artist hasn't made some fundamental changes to what I described. Every single time, I've looked at what they've done and made a mental note that this is the reason why someone else is drawing the strip!

Cheers

Jim
Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

Richmond Clements

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 12 May, 2010, 12:52:52 PM
Quote from: radiator on 12 May, 2010, 12:21:24 PM
I literally could not work out a way to get all of that information into a single panel - and the result was a disaster!

If I may re-use a piece of advice I offered via e-mail recently ...

QuoteSpeaking with my writer's hat on: writers are idiots. They have no clue how much information can be conveyed in a panel. As an artist, it's your job to fix the script! I haven't written a script that's been illustrated where the artist hasn't made some fundamental changes to what I described. Every single time, I've looked at what they've done and made a mental note that this is the reason why someone else is drawing the strip!

Cheers

Jim

Too true!
I invariably have an extra panel or two in there that the artist will merge into one.
(This might be better advice for the writers thread but anyway) Remember that the artist is changing the script to make it better, not worse- don't be so fucking precious.

radiator

Fair point, Jim. But if I was going to submit a strip, surely it would not impress the editor if I started chopping and changing panels because I know better?

I just guessed they had chosen those sample scripts specifically because they've got a few nasty panels to put the artists to the test.

Jim_Campbell

Quote from: radiator on 12 May, 2010, 01:04:39 PM
Fair point, Jim. But if I was going to submit a strip, surely it would not impress the editor if I started chopping and changing panels because I know better?

I wouldn't presume to know what Matt is looking for in a sample page, but I suspect that he's looking for a page that tells the story well. If that meant -- for example -- breaking the Dredd action into a separate panel, or an inset, then I can't imagine he'd bat an eyelid. It's not like you're deviating from the script by leaving stuff out because it's hard to draw, which definitely is a no-no!

Not really the same thing, but I had to do a lettering test to get my first paying job and I really, really fretted over deviating from the script, but in the end, I think I twice broke a caption into two, moved a speech balloon into a different panel and added several unscripted sound effects. It improved the flow of the page and got me the job precisely because they are paying me to know better!

Cheers

Jim
Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

Emperor

Quote from: radiator on 12 May, 2010, 12:21:24 PM
QuoteSeconded. I frequently write panels and think 'I have no idea how the artist is going to do that', but they always do, and usually better than I could have imagined.

In the sample script I've drawn (Generation Killer) there was one panel in particular that gave me a bit of a nightmare. The description went something like:

QuoteCharacter A holds up Character B and electrocutes him using his powered gauntlets. In the background, characters C and D advance cautiously. Behind them all, Dredd bursts into the room, gun drawn.

I literally could not work out a way to get all of that information into a single panel - and the result was a disaster!

There is a thread for attempts at the sample scripts and I'm sure we'd all be happy to give you feedback/advice on what you've done (I'll go and take a sneaky peek at the story now). As I've said to you before I (and many others) would love to see some sequentials from you. I know you are concerned about speed but I bet Matt Timson could beat you in a "slowest artist" race, you just have to pick your projects carefully. Plus you'll get quicker with practice and your visual storytelling skills will improve too with time, so you won't worry so much about such panels (although I do suspect an above comment about this possibly being chosen as a test has some merit, in "Cycles of Violence" the last panel on the first page is very tricky to get right as you need to basically have Dredd firing up and left, which throws the flow across the page and could be something that separates the men form the boys).
if I went 'round saying I was an Emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!

Fractal Friction | Tumblr | Google+

The Enigmatic Dr X

If you can't take criticism, especially constructive, then don't put any work up for scrutiny. If you're collaborating with someone then you both want it to be as good as it can be.

So far, I've never had any criticism I've thought of as unfair or without basis. Sadly, and it's probably to do with my scripts, they tend to be things that suddenly seem dead obvious.
Lock up your spoons!

Emperor

Quote from: Emperor on 12 May, 2010, 05:23:34 PMI'll go and take a sneaky peek at the story now

I went and did just that and it is funny when you see it - the description makes it sound like a big, mad, busy panel and John Higgins has drawn it pretty small and pretty simple, you'd pass right over it and not bat an eye lid (you'd certainly not think it was the kind of panel that would cause despair). I suspect you've overthought it.
if I went 'round saying I was an Emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!

Fractal Friction | Tumblr | Google+

radiator

I'll try and have a look at the script later to see what was so infuriating about it - I just remember that there were so many elements all together that made it difficult.

It was a year ago I drew it so I may approach it completely differently now.

mygrimmbrother


CrazyFoxMachine

Well that's extremely brilliant

radiator

#313
QuoteI went and did just that and it is funny when you see it - the description makes it sound like a big, mad, busy panel and John Higgins has drawn it pretty small and pretty simple, you'd pass right over it and not bat an eye lid (you'd certainly not think it was the kind of panel that would cause despair). I suspect you've overthought it.

Here's the description as it is in the script:

QuoteImal puts a hand on Peart's shoulder, there's a little electric discharge and Peart jerks as if stunned. In bg Dredd comes running into Maternity unit, gun drawn. Halfway between the two the two security men have stopped, in a quandary about what to do.

PEART: uHHhH!

DREDD: LET GO THAT CITIZEN, CREEP!

That is quite a lot of info to get into a single small panel - Peart and Imal need to be dominant in the panel to clearly show what is happening (the electrocution), there are three other figures - Dredd's entry needs to be suitably dramatic, and there is also dialogue and sfx to consider.

If I were to draw the panel now, perhaps I would find it easier, but it was a year ago that I attempted it!

I didn't refer to Higgin's art at all as I wanted it to be completely my own take.

Emperor

Quote from: radiator on 16 May, 2010, 06:12:23 PMI didn't refer to Higgin's art at all as I wanted it to be completely my own take.

Indeed, that is probably the best approach but if you get stuck it is worth a peek to see how Higgins conquered it. So, for example, he didn't do this: "Peart and Imal need to be dominant in the panel to clearly show what is happening" Peart is closest to the viewer but hard up against the left edge of the panel and all we see of Imal is his hand (because that is all that was needed - the reader can fill in the rest there). Also although the security men are closer than Dredd he has put them off to the right of the panel cringing, that leaves Dredd in the middle of the panel. Its a clever solution allows for a relatively small panel - there are a whole range of ways of drawing it but I suspect it is just practice and experience that help spot that you can simplify the panel a bit and not loose any of the information.

Any chance we can see your pages?
if I went 'round saying I was an Emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!

Fractal Friction | Tumblr | Google+