ABC Warriors Time line

[positronic]

There's a whole arc in The Mek-nificent Seven featuring Golgotha, who's repeatedly referenced as the son of Satanus and grandson of Old One-Eye, that's harder to explain away.

Why would you want to 'explain that away?' Satanus himself is pretty integral to the mid-period Nemesis stories, so there's little sense in trying to explain away his son's earlier apperance...!

But Satanus lived in the Cursed Earth during Judge Dredd's time, while "The Mek-nificent Seven" is taking place on Mars in the years before Hammerstein joined Ro-Busters, beginning in 2078. So how can Golgotha be Satanus' son if the time-travel tech from FLESH hadn't been invented before 2078? Oops, I guess that Pat didn't really think that one through all the way.

[Eric Plumrose]

in the last panel we see the mafia boss being taken away by a Judge! But wait, don't the Ro-Busters stories all take place in 2078? Mostly true, but then in the next 2000 AD Annual the Ro-Busters story is specifically dated as taking place in 2180 -- and in the Ro-Busters story from the Annual in the year following that, we're back to normal policemen wearing a kind of modified London bobby helmet. You can't get all hung up with those bits.

RO-BUSTERS was initially set in 2078. The reason? 2078 was one-hundred years henceforth of publication (cf. INFERNO in 2000 AD). When it transitioned to 2000 AD, 'Death on the Orient Express' updated the strip to 2080 (assuming STAR-LORD hadn't done so prior to being swallowed). Why? Buggered if I know. However . . .

As an international operation, Ro-Busters, Inc. would've had dealings with all manner of law enforcement.

[Dark Jimbo]

So how can Golgotha be Satanus' son if the time-travel tech from FLESH hadn't been invented before 2078?

Exactly the same way that Satanus could be Old One Eye's son from 65 million years ago but go rampaging through the Cursed Earth in 2100!

Golgotha was cloned from fossil material and given a second life on Mars just as Satanus was before the Great Atom War. Simples.

[TordelBack]

But Satanus lived in the Cursed Earth during Judge Dredd's time, while "The Mek-nificent Seven" is taking place on Mars in the years before Hammerstein joined Ro-Busters, beginning in 2078. So how can Golgotha be Satanus' son if the time-travel tech from FLESH hadn't been invented before 2078? Oops, I guess that Pat didn't really think that one through all the way.

Cursed Earth is set around 2100, maybe 30 years after the events of Ro-Busters. Old One Eye lived to 120, and was still producing young relatively close to that age (she kills one of her offspring in Flesh), so there's no reason Satanus couldn't have been 50 years or so when we first meet him and sired Golgotha way back before Booth's War.

Plus Satanus originally lived 65 million years ago, and would later travel extensively in time, space and hell dimensions. Golgotha could have been conceived, died and re-created from his DNA at any time. EDIT: curses, Jimbo'd!

[Eric Plumrose]

But Satanus lived in the Cursed Earth during Judge Dredd's time, while "The Mek-nificent Seven" is taking place on Mars in the years before Hammerstein joined Ro-Busters, beginning in 2078. So how can Golgotha be Satanus' son if the time-travel tech from FLESH hadn't been invented before 2078? Oops, I guess that Pat didn't really think that one through all the way.

There's no oops. Further to Dark Jimbo and TordelBack:

On Mars, Golgotha has a harem so he's (probably) ten years-old because that's when dinosaurs are presumed to have reached sexual maturity. Hammerstein's first Martian tour-of-duty happens prior to the Battle of Armageddon in 2070, therefore Golgotha was likely born c. 2060. In which case, Satanus v.2.0 (the original having been killed and eaten by his mother, Old One Eye) was presumably cloned and hatched c. 2050. T-Rexes are presumed to have lived, on average, thirty years but -- given his bloodline -- I can easily buy into Satanus still being around in 2100 during Dredd's Cursed Earth mission to Mega-City Two.

[Dark Jimbo]

As for when/how Golgotha was concieved (it's implied Old One Eye killed Satanus Mark I at an early age) - Satanus Mark II spent 30 years in the Cursed Earth before meeting Dredd, having his pick of the females in Sauron valley; and after Thoth's time-travelling shenanigans, in a nicely ourobic ending for the Tyrannosaur, he lives out his days back in the jungles of the Jurassic. Plenty of oppurtunity for siring a brood!

[TordelBack]

...he lives out his days back in the jungles of the Jurassic. Plenty of oppurtunity for siring a brood!

Not much opportunity for love for the only T-Rex in the Jurassic...

[Dark Jimbo]

D'oh! Er, I mean, well done Wilson, I was wondering who'd be the first to spot the deliberate mistake!

[positronic]

in the last panel we see the mafia boss being taken away by a Judge! But wait, don't the Ro-Busters stories all take place in 2078? Mostly true, but then in the next 2000 AD Annual the Ro-Busters story is specifically dated as taking place in 2180 -- and in the Ro-Busters story from the Annual in the year following that, we're back to normal policemen wearing a kind of modified London bobby helmet. You can't get all hung up with those bits.

RO-BUSTERS was initially set in 2078. The reason? 2078 was one-hundred years henceforth of publication (cf. INFERNO in 2000 AD). When it transitioned to 2000 AD, 'Death on the Orient Express' updated the strip to 2080 (assuming STAR-LORD hadn't done so prior to being swallowed). Why? Buggered if I know. However . . .

As an international operation, Ro-Busters, Inc. would've had dealings with all manner of law enforcement.

There's no problem if the Ro-Busters San Francisco earthquake story takes place 2 years after Hammerstein joined in 2078. Having it take place in 2180, 102 years later is a problem. Clearly date references like that are just ignored as typographic errors, but the "typographical" errors weren't necessarily real typographical errors, they were intentional, but goofs by a writer not paying attention (in that particular case, I don't think Mills wrote the story). It's only one type of continuity error among many made because there were no 'series bible' rules were in effect to nail down specifics, it was all figuring-it-out-as-we-go. Pat Mills may have had more specific background details in his own mind than he ever spelled out in detail in the stories, which other writers weren't aware of, plus Mills occasionally forgot things he'd established before, or just changed his mind about some things in order to try to graft different details from other series into a common timeline.

[Eric Plumrose]

Not much opportunity for love for the only T-Rex in the Jurassic...

My 'thing' to my amazement still works despite peaking almost twenty-five years ago. Thoth's 'thing' managed something like 79 million years!

[sheridan]

A Ron Smith MC-1 doesn't look much like a Mick McMahon MC-1.

True but they both at least have blocks in them. To my eye there is literally nothing in the HH world that looks like it is going to become Dredd's MC-1, although I agree it has a few decades to get there.

The sky-slums of Harlem fit the bill for me (sorry, couldn't get a better picture of them at short notice).  A lot of the stadiums we see seem very MC-1-y to me as well.

[Eric Plumrose]

There's no problem if the Ro-Busters San Francisco earthquake story takes place 2 years after Hammerstein joined in 2078. Having it take place in 2180, 102 years later is a problem. Clearly date references like that are just ignored as typographic errors, but the "typographical" errors weren't necessarily real typographical errors, they were intentional, but goofs by a writer not paying attention (in that particular case, I don't think Mills wrote the story). It's only one type of continuity error among many made because there were no 'series bible' rules were in effect to nail down specifics, it was all figuring-it-out-as-we-go. Pat Mills may have had more specific background details in his own mind than he ever spelled out in detail in the stories, which other writers weren't aware of, plus Mills occasionally forgot things he'd established before, or just changed his mind about some things in order to try to graft different details from other series into a common timeline.

By the time the 1982 2000 AD Annual was published, the RO-BUSTERS timeline had already been set. There was no still 'figuring-it-out-as-we-go'. It's a typo, nothing more. The same way 'A Night at the Basho' in the 1989 JUDGE DREDD MEGA-SPECIAL informs us the Hondo-City sumo wrestlers will be released a century before they've been arrested.

[positronic]

The type of "changed-my-mind-about-that" discontinuity is still happening decades after many details about the series have been well-established. In one of the original Ro-Busters stories, "The Tax Man Cometh", it's established that Howard Quartz is a British subject (here he's been handed a tax assessment of 238 billion Earth Credits). Later in the story he's kidnapped by his "little brother" Ebenezer, a withered old man who had instituted a plot to take over Ro-Busters. A later story introduces Quartz' great-aunt, who although middle-aged, is significantly younger-looking than Quartz' younger brother Ebenezer.

However, in the more recent RETURN TO EARTH story (which takes place after The Mek-nificent Seven, but prior to Hammerstein joining Ro-Busters), Howard Quartz is an American citizen, the brother of President Quartz, whose own grandson is the current President. After first assassinating the President, Hammerstein attempts to kill Howard Quartz, only to find that Quartz, as the owner of the firm that manufactured all ABC Warrior robots, had included as part of their basic programming an order which prevents Hammerstein from causing Howard Quartz any harm. Hammerstein escapes, but has to go to ground because it's expected that he'll try to return to Mars, so all spaceports are being closely watched. At this point, he gets a replacement head so he won't be recognized, later being purchased as a war surplus robot by Quartz. Well, Hammerstein is prevented from harming Quartz, but this fails to account for the many instances in the Ro-Busters stories where Hammerstein acts independently of Quartz' orders by taking action to save his life. Difficult to reconcile if he's not compelled to follow Quartz' orders and he's doing nothing to harm Quartz himself -- if Hammerstein wanted him dead, he merely needs to do nothing and take no action to extricate Quartz from imminent death.

[positronic]

There's no problem if the Ro-Busters San Francisco earthquake story takes place 2 years after Hammerstein joined in 2078. Having it take place in 2180, 102 years later is a problem. Clearly date references like that are just ignored as typographic errors, but the "typographical" errors weren't necessarily real typographical errors, they were intentional, but goofs by a writer not paying attention (in that particular case, I don't think Mills wrote the story). It's only one type of continuity error among many made because there were no 'series bible' rules were in effect to nail down specifics, it was all figuring-it-out-as-we-go. Pat Mills may have had more specific background details in his own mind than he ever spelled out in detail in the stories, which other writers weren't aware of, plus Mills occasionally forgot things he'd established before, or just changed his mind about some things in order to try to graft different details from other series into a common timeline.

By the time the 1982 2000 AD Annual was published, the RO-BUSTERS timeline had already been set. There was no still 'figuring-it-out-as-we-go'. It's a typo, nothing more. The same way 'A Night at the Basho' in the 1989 JUDGE DREDD MEGA-SPECIAL informs us the Hondo-City sumo wrestlers will be released a century before they've been arrested.

The appearance by a Judge taking away the mafia boss in the previous Annual's story argues otherwise, since as I noted the story with the 2180 date wasn't written by Mills. There are many Ro-Busters stories taking place in America, and it's not the world of Mega Cities and the Judge system (just as there's no Brit-Cit in the stories taking place in England). There was a constant grind to fill the pages of 2000 AD, and in the rush to get stories written and drawn, mistakes were made. Presumably it was the editor's job to catch those gaffs, but occasionally he missed stuff. That's all.

[Eric Plumrose]

The type of "changed-my-mind-about-that" discontinuity is still happening decades after many details about the series have been well-established.

But that's not what you were arguing. 'Changed-my-mind-about-that' isn't the the same thing as 'figuring-it-out-as-we go'.