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#1

Books & Comics / Re: Completely Self-absorbed T...

Last post by Vector14 - Today at 10:25:40 AM

While it's true that whatever a person takes from a work of art is valid, its still hard not to feel annoyed when people misinterpret the intention of the authors in some cases.
The obvious one is how some people interpret Dredd as a template for how policing should be done rather than a satire.

I have Kill or be killed digitally here but have never read it. Just had a quick flick through and the Spiderman connection looks obvious to me...because I've just read your write up. If I just went into it cold I would probably not have made the connection at all.

#2

Books & Comics / Re: Completely Self-absorbed T...

Last post by Blue Cactus - Today at 10:07:21 AM

Oops, I took up half the page by quoting an enormous chunk of text!

#3

Off Topic / Re: Threadjacking!

Last post by JayzusB.Christ - Today at 10:01:25 AM

No hassle... the only thing is, we still have a wicker arm to fill, and animals aren't enough to appease the gods.
(For the record, most of us aren't actually pagans, but just love a good spectacle and party.)

[Number 85 - Part 2]

#4

Books & Comics / Re: Completely Self-absorbed T...

Last post by Blue Cactus - Today at 09:56:12 AM

Number 85 - Part 2


Copyright - Them what created it

So I was seeing all these parallels, this connective tissue, but at the time no one else seemed to be referring to it. So I wondered about why and concluded that I might well be reading too much into things. That there was nothing there other than what I was (over) reading into what I read. And frankly that didn't matter. This was my reading of the comics, if I brought that to the party and that informed what I took from the comics and affected my enjoyment that was fine. It was my reading, my experience, regardless of any original intent from the creators. Any individual reading of any comic, book, movie, play, song, whatever is just that an individual reading of that piece of art. If what was given to me by the creators was there simply as I saw it and it came from my engagement with the piece then it was there, in that reading and is valid as any 'correct' reading. Folks can absolutely disagree, see that reading as poppycock, dismiss it and therefore question my reading of others things, say I missed the 'real' meaning of the piece. That doesn't take away from my experience.

Hence we get the all important subjectivity of anyone's engagement with any piece of art. There is no wrong reading, even if that reading does go against the planned purposes of the creators and book the trend of more widely held views. Everyone comes to the art they engage with different experiences, different needs and therefore sees that work through their individual perspective and they will only enjoy a work if that work satisfies the needs they bring to it. I wrote my Librarianship master dissertation about this... yes, yes there is such a thing! There isn't really any good or bad imaginative literature, it all has value if it's able to satisfy the needs that certain readers bring to it. I come to Kill or be Killed as a fan of superhero fiction and so bring those things to it. Seeing those superhero tropes, all be it presented in a very different way, in this work satisfied some subconscious need I was engaging with and so that's cool.

That will then be filtered through society, media, the options of others and so as a society we determine what is good, bad, what has value and what doesn't. A collective view is 'agreed' on views that are different from those that are exposed as outliers and are commonly disagreed with. None of that takes away from the validity of that specific reading to that particular person...

... as it turns out in this case as I've done my background reading for this write up, it's become clear that actually Brubaker (and I assume by extension Phillips) did intend for them to be there. To quote the Wikipedia entry (I know, I know lazy research!) linked to below:

He describes the story as Death Wish meets Breaking Bad with the adventure of The Amazing Spider-Man comics from the 1970s.

Which kinda burst my bubble when heading into writing this after for so long assuming I was seeing things that weren't there. I decided to keep all that in however as for so long, until I started typing this one up, having those feelings was my experience when it came to Kill or be Killed. Shows what I know!


Copyright - Them what created it

Beyond all that it's really important to note I think I'd have enjoyed this one regardless of the superhero story told through the bitter lens of a psychological crime thriller. Over its 20 issues it tells a fantastic, tense, compelling visceral and violent tale. I mentioned in my reflections of Fatale (linked to above) that I find Brubaker and Phillips noir crime stories even more engaging when they have a different layer to them. In this case, as with Fatale the supernatural elements add a deeper layer of mystery and intrigue. They allow their visits to the world of crime to explore wider, deeper ideas. That's not to say that I don't enjoy pure crime stories and we'll see that as we get deeper (much deeper in one case) into this list. Just in their specific case it adds a little something extra that makes them stand out to me. It satisfies another need to bring to my reading and adds to my particular enjoyment.

In Kill or be Killed it really leaves the question of whether Dylan is actually visited by a demon that compels him to kill or whether it's all a reflection of his mental health issues. We the reader get to decide what we take from those visitations. I need to read it again to make a call on whether it handles those mental health issues well, or whether it simply uses them cheaply to create some sensationalist drama. For now I'll allow better informed folks to make that call. Though given it deals with suicidal ideation its worth flagging a content warning on this one.

Phillips' art is of course sublime. I think I covered most things I want to say about it in my entry for Fatale. Suffice to say he uses his deep shadows and sharp contrast to create a perfect tone and atmosphere for the piece. He handles the intimate character moments with depth and intensity. The action elements are violent and uncompromising, he depicts them as suitably hard, terrible and with real consequence. It's another artistic triumph with his typical first class storytelling.


Copyright - Them what created it

Errr and yes that cover really does make clear I should have had no doubts about the Spidey references being made hey! Anyway Kill or be Killed is another fantastic entry in Brubaker and Phillips long list of collaborations. It's my favourite of them, though we might get another crime story by a different Phillips coming up later. I think that's as it plays with another thing, superhero stories, I enjoy in such a different and fresh way. It adds a new spin on another of the needs I bring to reading the escapist fantasy of custom heroics. I hope if you've read it, or decide to read it, your experience is as good.

Great series, good write up Col. Your thoughts reminded me of some literary theory - I think Mikhail Bakhtin's but building on Roland Barthes' Death of the Author stuff. Basically the idea that the text is created by the reader in the act of reading. In other words the text is formed of what you bring to it, including your own experiences, the culture (including comics) you've previously absorbed, etc, and somewhere within all that there is also the voice of the authors/creators, not as the dominant or overriding element but just one part of the text you're creating while reading. I won't start waffling on but there is a chunk of literary theory that you've summed up nicely in your writing there!

I hadn't really thought about Spider-Man while reading KOBK but now you point it out it's definitely apparent! This was probably my favourite Brubaker-Phillips series, this or The Fade Out I think. Recommended!

#5

General / Re: New Romance* comic from Re...

Last post by Barrington Boots - Today at 09:54:57 AM

Seems smart to me also: a lot of comic creators are going this route now. Just on what we've seen so far I'd back this.

A couple of friends use Kickstarter for projects and have complained they take a decent cut of revenue, but the main challenge they've faced is promoting in failry saturated markets which I assume Rebellion will have no real issue with.

#6

Off Topic / Re: Life is riddled with a pro...

Last post by Barrington Boots - Today at 09:52:15 AM

3 more weeks till I can get this tooth removed even with by going private, aaargh!

Can confirm a private dentist is a lot posher and nicer to visit than the NHS one (as more expensive, obvs)

That's grim news for you there Hawk, hope the health insurance covers the bulk of it. Wisdom teeth really really suck: mine have done a load of damage to my other teeth, and I'm not even wise to boot.

#7

Games / Re: Judge Dredd Miniatures Gam...

Last post by The Bissler - Today at 09:48:57 AM

Our latest Judge Dredd report sees us crossing the streams by playing the Combat Mission from the ABC Warriors rulebook and also applying the mech rules to the Demobot and Warbot - enjoy!

#8

Prog / Re: Prog 2380 - By Steed and S...

Last post by IndigoPrime - Today at 09:32:38 AM

Tharg wanted him on horseback but here is the full article

That's quite the development for a single cover. I wonder what happens to the other completed one? It's surely good enough for a Star Scan when there's an empty page begging?

#9

General / Re: New Romance* comic from Re...

Last post by IndigoPrime - Today at 08:43:57 AM

Seems like a good idea to me. Reduces risk. Gauges demand. Acts like a preorder. The Good Omens graphic novel was funded this way. And Boom is using it to finish off incomplete collections. (Lumberjanes is currently funding, letting you either buy a new HC set or buy books to complete the stalled To The Max set.)

#10

Off Topic / Re: Threadjacking!

Last post by JohnW - Today at 07:59:54 AM

if you fancy a nice bank holiday break...?

A licentious neo-pagan hoolie?
I could hand out improving tracts extolling the virtues of temperance and corduroy, I suppose.
But alas, prior commitments and all that. Delighted to be asked though (y'know, provided you weren't planning on ritually killing me).