The Political Thread

[Jim_Campbell]

There is a clear and easy-to-understand distinction between calling someone's argument idiotic, and calling that person an idiot. I know lots of smart people who believe stupid and/or wrongheaded things. I have been guilty of doing the latter when I should have done the former and am trying to do better.

Cheers

Jim

[The Legendary Shark]

You're welcome, Tankie - this is the Political Thread and it needs robust and vociferous raw curmudgeons like you, GRennie, Jim and me. It's all good!
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Ah Jim - I love your posts and don't think you could do much better.  (Or, more accurately, I don't want you to do much better because, if you do, I'll never win an argument against you!)
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That said, I think Molchie has a point. How about we don't outright ban personal jibes on This Thread but stipulate that they must be in Mega City One vernacular? Then we can all act like the stomm-drokkers we really are... :-D

[Hawkmumbler]

Was your grud-damn mouth!

[Frank]

Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi ... why does it always happen to the good guys?



By Cheryl K. Chumley - The Washington Times - Monday 6th October


North Korea's supreme leader Kim Jong-un hasn't been seen in public for so long that talk is swirling he may have been deposed.

Mr. Kim's been absent from the public eye since Sept. 4, and is reportedly suffering from gout. He supposedly also underwent surgery for two broken ankles, United Press International reported.

"Mr. Kim wasn't present at the latest meeting of North Korea's congress, the Supreme People's Assembly — something experts say is a sign that he's experiencing something more serious than health problems, UPI reported.

A former counterintelligence official who held a high-ranking spot in Mr. Kim's regime, Jang Jin Sung, said he thinks the Organization and Guidance Department actually usurped the dictator last year and headed up the execution of their political rival, Kim Jong-un's uncle, Jang Song Thaek.

"When Jang Song Thaek was executed that was, basically, that totally broke everything," Mr. Jang said, Vice News reported. "You just can't touch a Kim family member publicly. ... It's the OGD's claim to legitimacy. It's them, saying no one is more legitimate than them. By Jang dying, Kim Jong-un is now surrounded by the OGD."

Mr. Kim is now little more than a figurehead for the OGD, which ordered his disappearance, Mr. Jang told Vice.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/6/talk-swirls-n-korean-dictator-kim-jong-uns-been-de/#ixzz3FODdOROc

[Grugz]

maybe he just had one after dinner mint too many and blew up

[Frank]

maybe he just had one after dinner mint too many and blew up

"I said gimme the pie"

[Grugz]

maybe he just had one after dinner mint too many and blew up

"now I will have the biggest  penis, decadent capitalist pigs!"

[The Legendary Shark]

He's so ronery.

[Grugz]

come to think of it its probably his uncle in the mincer

[von Boom]

Looks like soylent yellow to me.

[Hawkmumbler]

[The Legendary Shark]

Thought I'd drag the slavery conversation from Threadjacking to here (have I just threadjacked the threadjacking thread?), where it will do less harm...
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I'm always saying that we, as a people, are enslaved and so I thought I' expand on that a bit.
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I don't think my views on slavery will make much sense unless I first explain what I think freedom is. I once read a definition of being rich as "having the resources to do what you need to do when you need to do it" and I think the best definition of freedom is roughly the same, having the ability to do what you need to do when you need to do it. Most people, I think, would say, correctly, that we already have that ability but I say that we do not.
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Before I explain that last remark, a bit of a disclaimer. Although the rest of what I write will be from an idealistic viewpoint I do not believe in Perfect Freedom. Nobody is free to sprout wings and fly away, walk to the moon or swallow tornadoes. Everything is constrained by everything else and freedom is a relative thing, if Perfect Freedom exists then it is an aspect of God and a subject for discussion on the Deep Thought Thread. For us, freedom is like an old vinyl single; the single groove is your life, constrained by the physical form of the record in both dimensions and duration - but within that groove is the potential for infinite variation; the freedom to record any song you like.
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The freedom I speak of is the freedom to choose my own path, to wander hither and yon as I choose. I have that now, of course I do, but does my society support me in that? In short, no. I think that it should. For what use is freedom in an enslaved nation?
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Slavery is when one person owns another and their productivity. In our society, I see many slaves throughout all levels of society, with chains made of false money and credit - the more you have, the longer your leash. Our "Big House" is Westminster, where the overseers work, those who have first dibs on Everything. Under them are the Trustees, the utilities and services, who have first dibs on whatever's left. Finally, you pay for your own room, board and transport and then you can grab a couple of comics with whatever's left.
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All over I see slaves doing jobs they hate just so they can tip up the vast majority of their earnings - their potential, their time, their lives - for the benefit of others, the Plantation Owners. Always the demands and edicts of the Owners comes first and our own needs come last - and they tell us that this is a virtue, that we are tightening our belts and working harder for each other. And we fall for it and willingly accept this slavery without seeing it for what it is. So long as we have X-Factor and microwave dinners and a good DVD collection that's all I need and all I want - just leave me alone and I'll be good.
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But they don't leave you alone, do they? Prices rise, wages stagnate and services are cut and all the time the Overseers cry "More! More! More!" and we obediently bend our backs because that's what we're supposed to, because that's what we're told to do, because that's what good slaves do.
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You cannot drive unless the Overseer says so. You cannot marry unless the Overseer says so. You cannot buy a house, own a car, fish the rivers, farm the land, own livestock, run a business, fly a plane, own a gun, drive a tank, execute criminals, broadcast a tv or radio show, hold a demonstration or run for office unless the Overseer says so.
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That is not freedom. That is slavery.
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Solutions? Many. Pick one. First, though, I think we have to give the idea that we've walked into slavery an inch at a time some serious thought. Before we can fix it, we need to see it - and I think I can see some of it. I should imagine many of you disagree but hey - that's politics!
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[The Legendary Shark]

So, we do not have the ability to do what we need to do when we need to do it because the demands of the Overseers come first.
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Don't believe me?
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Hands up how many of you need a holiday right now? So why don't you go? This is supposed to be one of the richest, most advanced and freest nations in the world.
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Why don't you go?

[TordelBack]

Your argument is a good one, but I still find the use of the term slavery to be inappropriate: no-one governs your relationships and your child-bearing, no-one sells you on away from your family, no-one prevents you running away - while your property and labour may be under the control of others, no-one genuinely owns you.  I understand how totally the modern world penetrates everyone's lives and curtails their choices, but ultimately I think it is quite distinct from slavery as the condition is generally understood (although again I accept that there have been many, many types and grades of slavery).

[The Legendary Shark]

The DSS has "the right" to take children from their parents and does so with alarming regularity. This is as blatant an example of ownership, and thus slavery, as I can think of.
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The question of ownership is an important one and I'm not sure there are any actual slave-society owners, at least not in the traditional sense. It may have started out that way but the more I think about it, the less likely that seems.
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There are certainly those who benefit hideously from the system (remember that statistic of 85 individuals being more wealthy than the poorest 50% of humanity combined?), and those like us who benefit marginally from it and would do just about all we're asked to keep it running. I'm beginning to think that the system itself has become so complex that it is the "owner" - though not in a sentient "SkyNet" kind of way, more in the way of an ancient religious process which is kept going on faith rather than actual results. I'm not quite sure I'm seeing it clearly yet but it seems that, as we technically own the system, we are enslaving ourselves.
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My brain hurts.
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