The Political Thread

[Daveycandlish]

Muscleman, that is the most sensible thing I have ever read on this thread.

[Mabs]

Thank you guys, btw, you can call me Mabs! 

[Jim_Campbell]

Worth observing that one of the policemen killed in this attack was also a Muslim. It seems to me a very selective reading of the Qur'an that demands deadly retribution for a cartoon but blithely overlooks the prohibition on killing other Muslims.

Jim

[Richmond Clements]

This is a brilliant article: http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/world-affairs/2012/09/muhammad-survived-dantes-inferno-hell-survive-youtube-clip

[ZenArcade]

Well said Mabs. Z

[Bat King]

I don't often comment in here.

People need to remember that not all mass murder is done using religion as an excuse. The Iraq War wasn't over religion it was over was Over oil. The French Revolution was about freedoms - pretty excessive body count. The American Revolution was more about fiscal matters than freedoms (abolishing slavery in the colonies had huge fiscal implications and that's the real reason in my Opinion). Animal rights activists have killed and maimed people.

The variety of reasons are numerous.

[TordelBack]

Ghastly business. I love French satirical and humour cartooning (I fill the car with everything from Canard Enchaine to Fluide Glaciale any time I visit, pretending that this time I'm going to improve my French by translating them all) and Cabu in particular, it's beyond belief that he and his colleagues should come to this awful end. But almost as disturbing is the torrent of gleeful racism overwhelming every site I visit. Good to come here and find sane voices.

[Mabs]

Worth observing that one of the policemen killed in this attack was also a Muslim. It seems to me a very selective reading of the Qur'an that demands deadly retribution for a cartoon but blithely overlooks the prohibition on killing other Muslims.

Jim

That's the thing Jim, these terrorists don't care. They do not even follow the Qur an because as ISIS have demonstrated so callously on many occasions, both Muslims and non - Muslims can be victims of their twisted ideology.  In fact, correct me if I am wrong, but there seems to be more Muslim victims of terrorist attacks around the world, than non - Muslims.  If we just look back on that heart breaking, attack on school children by the Taliban a while back. Their brand of Islam is like an ugly distortion, believe me, no other way to class them other than a bloody cult. They forego all reason, for hate, and the use of fear. And that is quite prevalent in a lot of cults. It's interesting to note that even during the time of the Prophet Muhammad, a group had arisen, separated from the main fold of Islam. They were preaching a religion distorted from the Prophet's teaching, what we would class as extremists today. And he said these words explicitly: "Those who practise extremism, is not one of us (ie, a Muslim)".

Clearly those fuckers such as ISIS today, need to be reminded of that.

They do not represent us.

[Mabs]

Apologies for my language. 

[Zenith 666]

No need for apologys.you have every right to be upset.these acts are just sickening and cowardly and these people need to be brought to justice.

[Fungus]

even during the time of the Prophet Muhammad, a group had arisen, separated from the main fold of Islam. They were preaching a religion distorted from the Prophet's teaching, what we would class as extremists today. And he said these words explicitly: "Those who practise extremism, is not one of us (ie, a Muslim)".

Great quote, thanks for that.

I don't have religious faith myself, but those closest to me who do are, without exception, the most reasonable and least-crazy (you haven't met my family) of them all.

[Old Tankie]

Of course, we know that these murdering scumbags do not represent Islam but surely the point is they think they do.  When challenged to publish the images of Muhammad, in the interest of free speech, the editor of The Jewish Chronicle, said, "Get real, folks."

[Theblazeuk]

Not all atrocities are committed in the name of religion. However attacks on a satirical magazine that was firebombed shortly after publishing a satirical cartoon seen as blasphemous are.

The point of the cartoons are not to attack a minority community but to stand against the ludicrous idea of 'blasphemy' and those who would lethally enforce this dictate.

The witnesses state the usual God is Great yelling. Your paranoia about media will inform how much you trust that to be the truth.

I'm not trying to say these people represent all of Islam but let's stop trying to pretend these murders aren't religiously motivated. This wasn't the US embassy, it wasn't a personal thing, it was 12 people killed because of a cartoon - following through on the threats that have been made frequently since the cartoons were published.

[The Legendary Shark]

I am perfectly willing to acknowledge that groups like Al-Qaida and IS don't speak for all Muslims. This is because the British Government, and its armed forces, do not speak for me - no matter how much they claim it to be so.
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This incident in France is a truly vile thing - but no more or less vile than a drone-strike carried out by our so-called allies. If we continue to allow our "leaders" to speak and act for special interests instead of wider society then this kind of thing is going to continue, worsen and end up dragging us all into a shitstorm of planetary proportions.
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We need to rescue our governments, processes and systems from the clutches of these few selfish interest groups before they lead us to utter ruin. That doesn't just mean us in the UK or the EU or "the West" but all of us; North Koreans, Chinese, Russians, Israelis, Palestinians, Saudis, Iranians, Somalians, Americans, French, Greeks, Argentinians et-al - we all have the same problem; our "leaders" are all in the same pockets.
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We need to pick those pockets.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Mabs / Muscleman, your well-informed and intelligent comments are very welcome. If I sounded Islamophobic earlier I apologise,  it certainly wasn't intentional. You're right,  of course: Far too many people are going to use this incident to divide the world even further. I never knew that Muhammed spoke against extremism, but it doesn't surprise me: If some Christians can ignore massive chunks of the bible and focus obsessively on in the parts that they think justify their own prejudices and hatred (which has occurred within this very thread), it makes sense that some Muslims would do the same with the Qu'ran.

And Sharky, you're right when you say that these deaths are no more or less vile than civilian deaths caused by Western military attacks.  I often wonder how Tony Blair, for instance,  can live with himself with the knowledge that so many innocent Iraqis have died in his name because of an assumption that was at best very shaky and at worst a lie. As a Westerner and a Catholic ( albeit one who has long since stopped believing), I would hope that people don't think Blair represents my views.

None of which is to try to take at from the horrors that happened yesterday in France of course.  It truly was an act of appalling savagery.