The Dark Judges - 20 years or life?

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

Here's a scary thought:

Necropolis finished 20 years ago (Prog 699, Cover date 6th October 1990).

Now, this isn't a nostalgia post about how time flies and how we all feel old.
It does, we do, get over it.

Rather, I was wondering if they would ever come back. I know there's been a little bit of dabbling with the Dark Judges since then but nothing that feels canon, at least to me. As far as I remember, there were the Batman - Dredds and then there was the Death story (in the Megazine?) with him riding a quad-bike and ending with him being pulled into hell.

Is that it? Really?

To put this into perspective, there are comic buying, forum reading, folks who were not born the last time the Dark Judges went on a rampage. Why is this? Does everyone on this board under the age of 25 (or even 30!) know who Fear, Fire and Mortis are? What they do?

Why are they so under-used? Is it because they're one dimensional? Well, 20 years ago so was the Joker or the Penguin or Lex Luthor.

Why has there been no attempt to use them since? If it's a fear of re-doing a "massacre of MC-1" then fair enough, but the world is a big place. Surely they could do something different but still within their goal of killing everything. Maybe (and this if just from the top of my head) going to another country or city and possessing their judges, or creating a disease?

Has Dredd as a story become too "straight"? There's been a real move, I think, from the older style sci-fi - at least by Wagner. No aliens. No dimension jumping Judda. No wacky guns. No monsters. It's all politics and mutant rights; all allegory for the modern world. I love that, and the recent big Dredd stories have been among the best - Tour of Duty was the bees' knees - but I do wonder if the fantastic (as opposed to silly) side of Dredd is being toned down?

Or are we wating for the film and possible sequel?

The Dark Judges are Dredd's iconic villains. But they are not recurring villains. Should they be?

Is 20 years long enough? Should we hear their hiss again? Or is it just the start of a longer sentence?

[spireite68]

I think the problem with Judge Death and his mates is that their only main aim is total anhilation of life which to be fair is a bit one dimensional and you can only wheel this idea out so many times before it becomes repetative. Same with Mean Machine in that all he did was butt people and be generally stupid so i can see why they have put him to rest. On the other hand characters like PJ Maybe are more interesting in that they are more intelligent and the scope to build up the character is far more appealing(although PJ is a serial killer and also kills people). Judge Death has become less menacing than he was and more comic which dosnt really work for me(Judgement on Gotham the exception). I am fortunate enough to remember the first appearance of Death and it was at the time mind blowing. I think these characters have had their day unless Mr Wagner can come up with storylines involving them which have the same impact as the early stuff, i very much doubt it.

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

Fair dos.

I meant to add that I always thought the Sisters of Death could have been used in some way for something.

[Greg M.]

There've been a few other appearances over the years ('Dead Reckoning' springs to mind, as does 'Three Amigos') but I suppose the reason we've seen so little of them is because not only are they fairly one-dimensional, as spireite68 says, but that this one-dimensionality is their very strength. They are alien super-fiends who wish only the death of all living things. If you try to delve too deeply into their motivation, you risk diluting the very essence of what makes them so potent (see 'Young Death') – the fact that they want to kill you and everyone you've ever met, will never stop wanting to kill you, and are, for the average person, impossible to stop. The problem is, because they're so impressive and powerful and terrifying, readers will be disappointed if they are used casually, and their big epic story, Necropolis, has already occurred. I don't think we should see them too often at all and I think giving them a long rest may have been necessary given how far they'd gone in the direction of comedic figures. I wouldn't say they should be rested permanently, but there needs to be a real sense of occasion if they turn up - it should feel like something special.

[spireite68]

I thought that it was good we explored deadworld in various stories but as soon as that avenue was exhausted it became stale. We could follow Death and the lads on another world but it would just be a repeat of Necropolis Judge Death etc. As i said he is very one dimensional  and i do agree with Gregg when he says this is his strength but i think it would take something extra special for Death to work again effectively in Dredds Universe.

[Greg M.]

If they came back (and I do think they could, they've had a good long rest) I think I would want it to be a real surprise, to give them back their power to shock and awe. Their predictability as characters is a double-edged sword - it can make them tired foes, but equally, knowing just what they can do and what they are capable of can have the reader in a state of high anticipation. I reckon if they appeared totally unexpectedly, in the middle of some already tense, dangerous or otherwise awful situation, they would have a sizeable impact.

[spireite68]

Suppose that could work greg. Also have them kill one of the main Dredd characters for the shock value.

[Kowalsky (formerly JudgeGumpty)]

Perhaps we could have a few more visit the Big Meg to revenge their bretheren.
Heres a few ideas maybe

Judge Putrid: (Half brother to Mortis)
Killing Method: A posioned touch and projectile vomit.

Judge Socordia: Walking death
Killing Method: By touch and inhalation of poisioned breath

Judge Gula:  
Killing Method: By mind control forces you to eat compulsively,anything and everyone, death by gluttony.

Judge Focalor: Sea demon entity.
Killing Method: Able to truncate and slime its way into the smallest of places, shape shifting octopus.shark thang, whereby it impales and feasts on its victims through its many tentacles.

Just off the top of my head Im sure there are far better ideas out there!

[uncle fester]

I'd say the upcoming Zarjaz special 'Dark Judgement' ought to be right up your alley then, Dr X

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

I'd say the upcoming Zarjaz special 'Dark Judgement' ought to be right up your alley then, Dr X

59 minutes to a pimp? What's wrong with you, man?

EDIT: Although I will get a copy!

[CYCLOPZ]

If they came back (and I do think they could, they've had a good long rest) I think I would want it to be a real surprise, to give them back their power to shock and awe. Their predictability as characters is a double-edged sword - it can make them tired foes, but equally, knowing just what they can do and what they are capable of can have the reader in a state of high anticipation. I reckon if they appeared totally unexpectedly, in the middle of some already tense, dangerous or otherwise awful situation, they would have a sizeable impact.

I agree - And I don't think that characters like judge death or mean angel are too one dimensional to use in any meaningful way nowadays. Necropolis was one of the all time greatest Judge Dredd Stories, something like Origins is great too but that was the 'necessary' Dredd story - anything with Judge Death is for me pure entertainment.
Wagner did flesh the out Death's past  in Young Death. I myself find the character as believable as the Joker.

Necropolis was an epic on the scale of the apocalypse war and if you recall in any of those classic Dredd tales you will find the odd character leaning towards the one dimensional  - just look at the Sovs for instance. If the story is crafted well enough it doesn't really matter. The reason I think Necropolis worked is that the the outlandish situation was told seriously i.e the Dark Judges were doing real damage in a way that was not as tongue in cheek as they have been recently.

I do think 20 years is enough to wait for a meaningful sequel to Necropolis. John Wagner's writing on Dredd only gets better with time so I think the readership should demand that he bring the Dark Judges back. Without the outlandish out and out sci-fi element what is there to distinguish Judge Dredd from something like Batman man!

[IndigoPrime]

Part of the problem is what do you do with the Dark Judges? They've already 'captured' Mega-City One and killed 60 million people. How do you 'top' that? Even if you had them take a subtler approach, the end result would be much the same, due to their aims.

As for Young Death, that always struck me as the worst possible thing that happened to Judge Death (until some of the dire later strips that featured him), because it stripped the character of its mystery.

[locustsofdeath!]

As for Young Death, that always struck me as the worst possible thing that happened to Judge Death (until some of the dire later strips that featured him), because it stripped the character of its mystery.

Agreed. I pretty much ignore Young Death when it comes to Judge Death 'canon'. The first time I read it, I was horrified - in all the wrong ways. I thought Death Lives was well done, though.

[SmallBlueThing]

The problem seems to be that Death is a classic ridiculous supervillain, his cohorts a classic ridiculous supervillain team and the strip has long since moved away from the kind of glorious absurdity that characterised those first few hundred issues. Long term readers amoungst us (such as me) may still think of the Dredd strip in terms of ugly parlours, boing, stookie, desmond snodgrass, walter, max normal and klegg-haiii, but for the most part Dredd is a procedural about a tired old cop and the civil rights movement at the moment. Which, as long term readers will also know, is what makes it currently one of the best written comics available.
But to bring an alien superfiend into the current strip? I don't know. It may work, but i dont think it's any coincidence that Wagner's not thought up anything for Death to do over the past twenty years. He's been busy turning the strip into something completely different.

I like Death and Death Lives, i have a passing fondness for Necropolis, and Boyhood is amusing, but all of Death's other appearances- notably the Batman stuff and that godawful one where he turned up at the dellaware pavilion in bexhill, i'll be happy never to read again.

Perhaps ditch the comedy sidekicks, or give him new ones, return him to being a singleminded killing machine, lose the gags and the singing, and have him possess a joe-clone cadet, then play the long game as he comes up through the ranks, bubbling away in the background..?

Or, better, create a new nemesis for Dredd, and let us forget Death, leaving him in the archives where he probably belongs now.

SBT

[Aaron A Aardvark]

I agree with pretty much all of SBT's post.

For me, Necropolis ended Judge Dredd - Chapter 1, the Dark Judges/Sov Bloc era and started Chapter 2, the PJ Maybe/Total War era.

I found Judge Death genuinely disturbing when I was 11/12. Paradoxically, I quite enjoyed Young Death but it destroyed the character.