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Author Topic: Who Are The Creators?  (Read 2691 times)

milstar

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Re: Who Are The Creators?
« Reply #30 on: 21 September, 2021, 08:01:20 PM »
What I find more than a little confusing in all this is Mills' insistence on identifying Gerry Finley-Day as primary creator of Rogue Trooper (to the extent of labelling all other Rogue and Rogue-world series an affront to GFD's rights as creator) when Rogue is easily as much a 'house character' as Dredd.

Rogue's creation is pretty well-documented, in as much as GFD's initial pitch was deemed basically unusable, and the whole thing was thrashed out in a meeting between GFD, Gibbons and Steve Mac during which pretty much all of GFD's ideas went out of the window and the strip that finally appeared bore little resemblence to the one he had pitched.

If Steve Mac's editorial input into the strip's 'development' doesn't invalidate GFD's right to be considered as a primary creator alongside Dave,* then why does Pat's input (whatever it actually was) as 2000AD's editor invalidate John's right to be identified as the primary co-creator of Dredd?

*See also the perennial point about Pat's rage over writers other than the originator working on a series, but apparent indifference to replacing artists.

Honestly, I was asking myself why GFD hasn't developed more scripts. Or he was more known as "ideas man", than full scripter. Too bad we don't see him doing work today.
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The Amstor Computer

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Re: Who Are The Creators?
« Reply #31 on: 21 September, 2021, 08:41:52 PM »
Honestly, I was asking myself why GFD hasn't developed more scripts. Or he was more known as "ideas man", than full scripter. Too bad we don't see him doing work today.

I think he had a reputation for being a great ideas man, and while his scripting fell out of favour, he still knew how to keep a weekly serial moving pretty effortlessly. Simon Geller's interview in the Meg touches on this - he talks about lobbying to take over Rogue, feeling he could do better, and coming to the fairly sharp realisation that what Finley-Day did wasn't quite as simple as it seemed.

GFD had a bit of a rep for being a wild ideas man with the photographers who worked on the New Eagle too - I've spoken to a couple, and they have some anecdotes about GFD turning out scripts for them that featured characters in an aeroplane, or an army tank, or both together (not an easy thing to source for shoots!) and having to meet with editorial to try and push back on that, only for subsequent scripts to call for the action to take place in a burning building!

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Who Are The Creators?
« Reply #32 on: 21 September, 2021, 11:33:34 PM »
Honestly, I was asking myself why GFD hasn't developed more scripts. Or he was more known as "ideas man", than full scripter. Too bad we don't see him doing work today.

Short version: there's no shortage of people who want to write comics. Maybe, back in the days when there was an editor, an assistant editor, an editorial assistant, an art editor, an assistant art editor, publishers would indulge a writer whose scripts were, charitably, rough drafts. Now, if you're not going to turn in more-or-less copy-perfect scripts, no one has time to rewrite your shit. That's tough on people like GFD, but it's just how it is.
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IndigoPrime

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Re: Who Are The Creators?
« Reply #33 on: 21 September, 2021, 11:37:38 PM »
See also: all publishing. When I turned in my first piece for a mainstream tech mag around 2001, my editor expressed surprise and joy at how little he had to change. He remarked: you edited your own work! That was unusual then. I just assumed that’s what people did. These days, you’re kind of fucked if you don’t, outside of celeb columns and a few old hands who have legacy deals with senior editors.

milstar

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Re: Who Are The Creators?
« Reply #34 on: 22 September, 2021, 12:22:47 PM »
Short version: there's no shortage of people who want to write comics. Maybe, back in the days when there was an editor, an assistant editor, an editorial assistant, an art editor, an assistant art editor, publishers would indulge a writer whose scripts were, charitably, rough drafts. Now, if you're not going to turn in more-or-less copy-perfect scripts, no one has time to rewrite your shit. That's tough on people like GFD, but it's just how it is.

Well, I am not going to pretend that I know how a perfect, professional script looks like (never have seen any to be honest), but if that's the case, fair enough. I still think he could be brilliant writer.
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IndigoPrime

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Re: Who Are The Creators?
« Reply #35 on: 22 September, 2021, 01:23:04 PM »
The issue isn’t necessarily talent. It’s just there are fewer people in the chain now, so writers have to do more. Those who always had the skills and/or impetus to do things more thoroughly are therefore more likely to find work than those who didn’t—or didn’t subsequently work on them.

CalHab

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Re: Who Are The Creators?
« Reply #36 on: 22 September, 2021, 01:37:41 PM »
Without wanting to be harsh, I suppose that's similar to the situation someone like John Smith finds himself in. Editors no longer have the time to chase creators who struggle to meet deadlines or to organise alternative content if they're late. Even if, as readers, we might wish they did.

Funt Solo

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Re: Who Are The Creators?
« Reply #37 on: 22 September, 2021, 06:44:22 PM »
This might explain what feels* like a higher number of typoos than in the past.


*I haven't actually tabulated the data because fuuuuuuck.
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Will Cooling

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Re: Who Are The Creators?
« Reply #38 on: 22 September, 2021, 07:15:26 PM »
Honestly, I was asking myself why GFD hasn't developed more scripts. Or he was more known as "ideas man", than full scripter. Too bad we don't see him doing work today.

Short version: there's no shortage of people who want to write comics. Maybe, back in the days when there was an editor, an assistant editor, an editorial assistant, an art editor, an assistant art editor, publishers would indulge a writer whose scripts were, charitably, rough drafts. Now, if you're not going to turn in more-or-less copy-perfect scripts, no one has time to rewrite your shit. That's tough on people like GFD, but it's just how it is.

Well let's go further....it was actually in those people's interests to solicit rough round the edges work because it helped them demonstrate their value. If all they're doing is processing pristine scripts or artwork, then what are they there for?
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Funt Solo

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Re: Who Are The Creators?
« Reply #39 on: 22 September, 2021, 07:28:21 PM »
EDITORS HIRING ILLITERATES SHOCKER
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IndigoPrime

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Re: Who Are The Creators?
« Reply #40 on: 22 September, 2021, 07:36:27 PM »
Well let's go further....it was actually in those people's interests to solicit rough round the edges work because it helped them demonstrate their value. If all they're doing is processing pristine scripts or artwork, then what are they there for?
A friend used to work on a major national newspaper. Every week, some old git would file 2000 words of half-arsed copy my friend would bash into shape, for the actual word count, which was far lower. The contributor was paid significantly more for that one column than my friend was for his entire job.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Who Are The Creators?
« Reply #41 on: 22 September, 2021, 10:12:13 PM »
Well let's go further....it was actually in those people's interests to solicit rough round the edges work because it helped them demonstrate their value. If all they're doing is processing pristine scripts or artwork, then what are they there for?

Ummm… no. That is so not how it works.
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rogue69

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Re: Who Are The Creators?
« Reply #42 on: 22 September, 2021, 10:33:13 PM »
I think i remember reading a few years back about Alan Grant saying that he could ask for credit for a lot of the original Rogue Trooper stories as he would have to rewrite a lot of Gerry Finely Day's scripts to make them fit and work and Pat Mills said he also had to edit some of Gerry's other work as well. So should writers who have been asked to go over another writers script be given credit as well

milstar

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Re: Who Are The Creators?
« Reply #43 on: 22 September, 2021, 11:06:55 PM »
I think i remember reading a few years back about Alan Grant saying that he could ask for credit for a lot of the original Rogue Trooper stories as he would have to rewrite a lot of Gerry Finely Day's scripts to make them fit and work and Pat Mills said he also had to edit some of Gerry's other work as well. So should writers who have been asked to go over another writers script be given credit as well

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Jim_Campbell

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Re: Who Are The Creators?
« Reply #44 on: 23 September, 2021, 08:19:52 AM »
I think i remember reading a few years back about Alan Grant saying that he could ask for credit for a lot of the original Rogue Trooper stories

ISTR Alan saying that he was paid a decent (for back then) amount of money for an uncredited re-write of Harry 20, too.
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