The Political Thread

[Theblazeuk]

As someone who lives in London I want to see him try doing it on a salary that is actually less than his expenses

Who votes for this entitled prick.....

[Jim_Campbell]

Africa minister Mark Simmonds resigns because Ebola happened on his watch: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/11/tory-foreign-office-minister-quits-intolerable-expenses-rules

Chris Mullin offers an entertaining commentary on this here. In the comments, someone has taken a look at Simmonds' voting record and notes that he was consistently opposed to any moves to raise benefit levels.

Cheers

Jim

[Theblazeuk]

The number of people saying "So what, he worked for his money and he wants more, that's life innit" astounds me.

Why do these people exist... how can anyone be so stupendously stupid that they can't even comprehend why Simmonds is a complete hypocrite. How can the same people who whine about "public sector workers" jump to defend greedy MPs like this? MPs who also got £50k for 'private consultancy' with vested interests eager for more slices of the public pie?

How can people not see. It's a Bad World.

[Fungus]

It's the brazenness of it I was amazed by. Maybe he wants more cash, but not to lie about his reason for quitting seems incredible!

When reported by the BBC they did mention that plenty of MPs agree that they need far more expenses - off the record of course.

[The Legendary Shark]

Some of us see. Some of us see quite clearly and more eyes open every day. Unfortunately, a lot of people who see want to bring the government down, destroy it or replace it with something else.
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Not me. I think that our government needs to be rescued. How? Sorry, no idea. The best I can suggest is to ignore it - suppose they held a general election and nobody voted, kind of thing. If you vote, then you must do whatever the government says (so long as it's lawful) and if you don't vote, then you must run your own life (so long as you do it lawfully).
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Anyway, back to reality. When do I get my cake? (I believe that cake acts on the portion of the brain called Shatner's Bassoon - or did I dream that?)

[NapalmKev]

Unfortunately, a lot of people who see want to bring the government down, destroy it or replace it with something else.

Would a profound change in our Political System be inherently bad? Part of the problem is that the only Parties that are likely to win are all exactly the same as each other!

Labour gave up the Left for a more Conservative approach. The Conservatives are becoming increasingly hardline against people in genuine need, and the Lib Dems will cosy-up with anyone that will have them.


Not the best democratic system IMO, but the illusion of Freedom will do, as opposed to outright Fascism.

cheers

[Jim_Campbell]

Not the best democratic system IMO, but the illusion of Freedom will do, as opposed to outright Fascism.

See Charles Stross's excellent blog post on The Beige Dictatorship.

Cheers

Jim

[The Legendary Shark]

It's the parties (and their paymasters) that the government needs rescuing from. The system isn't inherently good or bad, it's just a tool like a hammer. Give a sculptor a hammer and you get a statue, give it to a builder and get a house - but give it to a bully and you get threatened and robbed.
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That might be a simplistic view but the systems we have in place have developed over centuries - there's no point just sweeping everything away because it happens to be being misused at the moment. We just need to figure out a way of making the system work for everyone and not just the few at the top - the bullies holding the hammer, as it were.

[Frank]

It's the parties (and their paymasters) that the government needs rescuing from. The system isn't inherently good or bad, it's just a tool like a hammer. Give a sculptor a hammer and you get a statue, give it to a builder and get a house - but give it to a bully and you get threatened and robbed.
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That might be a simplistic view but the systems we have in place have developed over centuries - there's no point just sweeping everything away because it happens to be being misused at the moment. We just need to figure out a way of making the system work for everyone and not just the few at the top - the bullies holding the hammer, as it were.

I must have swallowed something dodgy at work, because the Shark's starting to make sense.

[NapalmKev]

Not the best democratic system IMO, but the illusion of Freedom will do, as opposed to outright Fascism.

See Charles Stross's excellent blog post on The Beige Dictatorship.

Cheers

Jim

A very interesting read Jim, thanks. Stross certainly knows his Onions; or Turnips in Politicians case!

Cheers

[NapalmKev]

It's the parties (and their paymasters) that the government needs rescuing from. The system isn't inherently good or bad, it's just a tool like a hammer. Give a sculptor a hammer and you get a statue, give it to a builder and get a house - but give it to a bully and you get threatened and robbed.
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That might be a simplistic view but the systems we have in place have developed over centuries - there's no point just sweeping everything away because it happens to be being misused at the moment. We just need to figure out a way of making the system work for everyone and not just the few at the top - the bullies holding the hammer, as it were.

Give a Hammer to a Politician and they'll dismantle any Public Service they can get their hands on!

The System needs more Public input, not just far away fools in suits that that have no connection to the very Public they themselves rely on.

I can't see how you can support this system when you regularly claim the right to "Govern yourself"? Without sounding rude, you can't have it both ways as far as I'm concerned, the Philosophys are too incompatible.

Cheers

[The Legendary Shark]

It's not two philosophies, just one. We can all govern ourselves but we need systems in place to keep things like roads, sewers and the emergency services running properly. IMHO, it's the job of the system to enable us all to enjoy the benefits of civilisation, to be there when we need it and to be absent when we don't.
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So long as the government sees its role as ruling us, like some Medieval court of barons, then I'm not interested in being one of its serfs. The minute it starts putting the  people first I will be it's most ardent supporter but, while it's putting just a handful of people first I simply can't be on its side. If that means that I have to go it alone then so be it.
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I have had more help off ordinary people, both friends and strangers alike, in recent months than I've had from the government. When I really needed help, the ordinary people were there in spades. The government was there too - but only to kick me while I was down and go through my pockets. So, if ordinary people are so helpful, what the Hell do we need the government for anyway?

[Jim_Campbell]

So, if ordinary people are so helpful, what the Hell do we need the government for anyway?

As we've discussed before: your neighbours are unlikely to build any suspension bridges and I would be loathe to allow one of mine to remove my appendix.

[The Legendary Shark]

Which is why we need a system that works. Also, cannot doctors and engineers be neighbours too? My mother's neighbours are vastly experienced in trauma nursing on one side and a builder on the other. The builder's a bit of a dick, to be honest, but I'd trust him to organise building a modest bridge and I'd trust the two nurses with my life any day of the week.
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It's not the system that builds bridges and removes appendixes, it's people. The system is there to organise them and make resources available, that's all.

[The Legendary Shark]

Great link, Jim, thanks for sharing.