1325 Slaine - A Case for the Defence

[ukdane]

Slip: True enough, but what the rape does do, is show Moloch of to be truly twisted and evil. If you like, by showing the rape, his villanous status has been raised, for the perspective of the reader. So whilst Slaine doesn't know what has gone on (yet), any revenge that Slaine gets on Moloch, will be justified more so by the reader.
As far as the statis of Villains go, IMO this is similar to the way in which I now view Judge Death. Before My Name Is Death, he was just a mass murdering comic book villain- But when he started killing kiddies, and WE saw it, he became more evil, twisted, and villaneous. And I for one can't wait for the day when he gets his comupence(sp?)- although I imagine he will once more be made into a comic book villain, a la The Joker, who returns again and again (but you get my point).
:-)

[almighty mat]

God, why is it that everytime someone says, hmm this is a bit full-on for a kid's comic, everyone jumps on the megaliberal anti-censorship horse?
 Hexen's quite right to say that some things shouldn't appear in a kid's comic, he's not advocating censorship so much as common bloody sense.
 Just because you've read tooth since you were a kid, doesn't mean that the age limit, or whatever you want to call it, has raised proportionately as you've aged.  
 Is it censorship that you probably can't use the word Fistfuck on kid's TV? Why would you think that you could in the first place?

[Bolt-01]

Well said Matt. 2000 is read by both myself and my 11 yr old. I elected not to let him read the second to last page of slaine this week, many pre-teen moans later he accepted my decision and just asked why?

I have to agree with Bou here, in that I feel I may have drawn more attention to the act than it deserves, but he doesnt need to see that. I have no problem with the stabbing, and that made me wince.

You are right that 2000 has aged along with its audience; but new readers are vital to continued longevity. Ultra-violence is one thing, rape is another beast alltogether, and I feel it was badly presented.

When the other fomorians boated about their raping a couple of progs ago, nothing was shown, which leaves the act imagined. Maybe that would have been preferred?

With regard to Slaine noticing Molochs 'handiwork'. Anybody remember highlander (the first one). McClouds wife was raped by the Kurgan, and she never told him. We knew, and then when the Kurgan boasts of it the full horror dawns on McCloud. Maybe Mills is going to do something similar?

I admit that this is the best Slaine for years, mainly due to something actually moving the character on (albeit he is returning to his wandering origins) and Langleys stunning visuals.

I am looking forward to the rest of the saga, as is my son (Slaine is his fave)

Dave Evans (rotts)

[Patrick]

I have a problem with the rape/murder of Niamh, but it has nothing to do with its suitablility for children (I don't have any, so I can afford to be academic on the subject). It's just lazy, cheap, bad writing. You want to motivate the hero? Humiliate and degrade his woman. You don't need to care about her, in fact it's probably better you don't, she's just a plot device to justify righteous violence on the part of the hero. It's the biggest cliche on the face of the planet, and it doesn't show a particularly healthy attitude towards women.

Link: http://www.paddybrown.co.uk" target="_blank">paddybrown.co.uk

[Leigh S]

**God, why is it that everytime someone says, hmm this is a bit full-on for a kid's comic, everyone jumps on the megaliberal anti-censorship horse? **

Well said, Matt.  It always seems to me that claiming the "immoral highground" is a simple way to avoid the real questions, which to me are:

Just who is 2000AD aimed at?  Certainly not kids, but how easy would it be to make 2000 appeal to all ages (like it used to)? It seems to me that ever since the "adult comic experiment" began in this country, theres always been around 20,000ish readers for them.  So is using full on adult stuff really the best way to increase your audience? Is it an admission that 2000AD is stuck with the audience it's got?

The context of the story is fairly important. The writing has been so clunky that it has signposted this event as little more than a device to get Slaine back wandering. "I wish I leave the tribe and go wandering again, Naimh, but not while your still about" leads to "I have a terrible feeling about Moloch" directly to "I'm just off for a walk by myself".

I'm sure if the story had handled the depiction of his better and it had seemed less obviously signposted as a convenient plot device, it would have been a lot less 'controversial'.

[Art]

Erm, is anyone actually outraged and offended? Assides from a few people not really wanting to show their kids this weeks prog (fair enough) it seems almost like you're all just going through the motions.

[Leigh S]

**Erm, is anyone actually outraged and offended? Assides from a few people not really wanting to show their kids this weeks prog (fair enough) it seems almost like you're all just going through the motions**

Well that's the point Art - but you dont have to be concerned about whether your kids can read it to wonder if it's in questionable taste, or handled badly, surely?  It was the same with the Asylum incident.  I'd probably sum up my feelings as disappointed that 2000AD seems to be deliberately aiming itself at an adult audience (sure, that might be the only way forward, but its disappointing to me nonetheless), and annoyance that a badly written story thinks it's up to a bit of boundary-pushing.  I would rather the writer had concentrated on trying to tell a better story than thinking of how far he could push things.

[Trout]

I find Slaine boring.

- Trout

[Slippery PD]

Watcher you have managed to put rather eloquently some of the things Ive been trying to say.  I personally dislike the rape scene, I am not outraged by it.

This reeks of poor storytelling (from a man Ive long admired) and sensationalism, lets raise the profile of the flagging story by doing something a little extreme.  But its not, its just strikes me as being lazy and derogative.  I for one would have been ahppy just to have Naimh die, the effect would have been the same.

yer Slippo

[The Monarch]

yeah slaine is boring sadly its not my knd of thrill

[Richmond Clements]

Slaine lost any kind of punch that it might have many years ago. I read it because I read everything else in the comic, but in the end, I just don't care about him, his wife or the dwarf any more. We have seen it all before.
Still, the art's good.

[thinky]

I agree with Trout - i find Slaine boring and can't get excited about the muddy blurred artwork...

for what it's worth i also completely missed the rape scene - but this might have had something to do with only scan-reading it.

the *only* slaine i ever liked was Sky Chariots with McMahon's risk-taking artwork (although his latest Dredd was pants)

[malkymac]

I don't think that this is the fist time that this theme has appeared in Slaine; In the strip 'Demon Killer', Elfric 'ravaged' the queens daughters (which amounts to the same kind of rape that we have seen in the prog) but in this case the whole situation was left to the readers imagination which I thought was the best way to convey it. All we saw was the evil face of the protaganist and a vague statement of what he intended to do. And that was enough.  

[Matt]

"Sl?ine didn't even see the rape happening, he only saw her die...
If she'd been raped & survived - that could have been motivation.
As she died - it would've been better to 'just' have her brutally tortured/mutilated."

Oddboy, tell me you were taking the piss when you posted this. So it's not acceptable to have a character raped but it's OK to have them brutally tortured and/or mutilated. Surely, one is as bad as the other? Both are brutal. I think the rape of Niahm was treated with the maturity the storyline deserved. Did it titilate the audience? Was it gratuitous and sensationalist? No, it was one panel that suggested far more than it showed. It was disturbing and clearly upset the reader, and judging by the amount of postings to the board this has thrown up, I think it probably made us reflect on the nature of violence. Look at how much violence we are treated too in 2000AD week after week. We don't question any of it. In fact, if truth be told, we bloody enjoy it. But we get upset when violence is treated with a sense of realism? I think we should get our priorities right if we simply use violence as a form of escapism, but not as a mechanism by which we can explore our nature.

[almighty mat]

But the thing is, no matter how graphic and horrible the violence, it's still cartoon violence and is only really as upsetting as the coyote having a big Acme weight falling on him. But sexual violence is a different kettle of fish, and should be treated as such.