The Political Thread

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

When's that from?

Turnout is only a little higher than 57%...

Turnout in my town was 53%

[Karl Stephan]

And here's some of the mess left by those clean hippies from Occupy Movement at Finsbury Square:

[hippynumber1]

Can we cut the hippy bashing now please?! These people aren't hippies... 

[Professor Bear]

See?  The protestors are keeping council workers in jobs that the Tories would - and have - cut in a heartbeat.  It's just a shame that firefighters or nurses couldn't pull double duty as street cleaners.

Further proof that protesting helps the populace where the government not only fails, but is waging war against us.

[Professor Bear]

Conservatives to scrap human rights act.

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

Conservatives to scrap human rights act.

Yes, but only the bits that involve an unelected body stretching the meaning of law beyond what was originally intended, thereby doing away with the democratic principle that the legislature should be answerable to the electorate.

I've never voted Tory, and am not an apologist for them in any way, but I think there is a clear argument about the scope of the law in this area. Simply because a piece of legislation mentions "human rights" does not in and of itself make it inviolate. It creates difficult questions about crime and punishment, about balancing the greater good against the indvidual, and about freedom. I think it is sensible that the UK looks at these issues and works them out for itself and, if we (the people) don't like it then we can vote on it - not be told by a European court, which has its own political tune, that we are wrong.

There are no right and wrong answers here.

Again, it's easy knee jerk to equate doing away with a piece of human rights legislation as meaning they want to do away with human rights. You need to look at what the issues are, how they are currently addressed, what the problem is with the current situation, and then you try to sort the issues and the problems.

It is a moveable feast, this kind of thing. A permanent tinkering is needed.

(That said, I suspect the shift might be too far to the right but it's a bit off to make that assumption).

[Karl Stephan]

Just posting links with no thought of your own is just being alarmist. There is no debate to be had, so I really can't be bothered to engage. Goodnight all.

[Karl Stephan]

Can we cut the hippy bashing now please?! These people aren't hippies... 

*sigh* No true Scotsman

[M.I.K.]

Just posting links with no thought of your own is just being alarmist.

Is it just me, or does this make absolutely no sense whatsoever?

[Fungus]

Just posting links with no thought of your own is just being alarmist.

Is it just me, or does this make absolutely no sense whatsoever?

It makes sense. 'Scrapping human rights' sounds atrocious. It's a valid viewpoint in terms of the EU's undemocratic hunger for ever greater power. See Dr X.

[M.I.K.]

Oh right. It's the lack of context thing. Fair enough. Carry on.

[Professor Bear]

I didn't say "scrapping human rights", I said "scrap human rights act" which is not the abolition of rights but redrawing of legislation pertaining to those rights and how they are applied, an area in which this government has already proven itself untrustworthy.  Gove is an especially odious choice to tamper with it given he's on the record as favoring a return to corporal punishment.

There is no debate to be had

You've made that abundantly clear.

[Jim_Campbell]

Gove is an especially odious choice to tamper with it given he's on the record as favoring a return to corporal punishment.

Wrote a pro-hanging piece when he was a journalist for the Times, too. The Human Rights Act extends to capital punishment, I believe. So... pro-death penalty politician is tasked with getting rid of legislation that prohibits death penalty.

That doesn't make me in any way nervous. Nosireebob.

Jim

[Professor Bear]

I was more thinking of the backwards-looking pig's ear he's made of education in trying to make it like it was when he was wee not being the best resume for someone tasked with reforming arguably the single most important bit of legal protection enjoyed by citizens of the UK.

[IndigoPrime]

The Mirror lists the basic rights:

The right to life
The right not to be tortured
The right not to be a slave
The right to a fair trial
The right NOT to be punished if you haven't broken the law
The right to private family life
The right to freedom of thought, conscience, and religion
The right to freedom of expression
The right to marry and start a family
The right to peaceful enjoyment of possessions
The right to education
The right to free elections
The right NOT to be given to death penalty

It then adds that while Cameron and Gove have said there's little wrong with the HRA, the Tory bill will include a "threshold below which Convention rights will not be engaged". If that doesn't send chills down your spine, nothing will. Add to that scrapping the HRA will plunge the UK into constitutional crisis due to devolution agreements and you have the first Tory mess of this parliament well in the making.