The Political Thread

[House of Usher]

I wish our government was in control.  

My first thought was something similar. A lot of conspiracy theories credit governments with far more competence in manipulation than they actually have. Governments aren't nearly as much in control as most people imagine, which is why so much of what they do is reactive.

[Richmond Clements]

I wish our government was in control.  

My first thought was something similar. A lot of conspiracy theories credit governments with far more competence in manipulation than they actually have. Governments aren't nearly as much in control as most people imagine, which is why so much of what they do is reactive.

Indeed- this is my point of view also. It's hard to credit hiding something as complex as, say, a staged bombing, to a group of people who cannot even manage to keep secret the fact that one of them charged a kit-kat to expenses.

It also occoured to me that in this new, post-wikileaks- world, that it is incredible to believe that any information on anything of public import remains hidden.

[House of Usher]

It also occoured to me that in this new, post-wikileaks- world, that it is incredible to believe that any information on anything of public import remains hidden.

That's what they want you to think. Sucker!

[Richmond Clements]

It also occoured to me that in this new, post-wikileaks- world, that it is incredible to believe that any information on anything of public import remains hidden.

That's what they want you to think. Sucker!

Dammit! I'm falling for the Big Lie!

[The Legendary Shark]

... A lot of conspiracy theories credit governments with far more competence in manipulation than they actually have. Governments aren't nearly as much in control as most people imagine, which is why so much of what they do is reactive.

This is exactly right.

Let me try to explain what I have come to understand. Basically, it's all about that old and very efficient military method for keeping secrets - compartmentalization.


For argument's sake, let us imagine that I was born into a phenominally rich banking family that routinely makes trillions of dollars out of lending non-existant money to governments (I've explained already on this thread how such a process works, so I won't go into it again here). My family, in this hypothetical scenario, basically has so much money and other resources that I am more or less above the law. I believe that I am better than the rest of humanity and therefore should be in charge of just about everything - do I need to directly control entire governments in order to achieve my goals? No, not at all. I need only a handful of allies in strategic positions in governments, industry, the media, intelligence services etc.

It would be very easy for me to fund, usually indirectly, up-and-coming politicians (for example) if I approve of their personalities and/or policies. As a powerful man, I will also have "agents" in the high echelons of the media to sex-up the politicians I like and destroy the ones I don't like. I can also set up blackmailable situations for the politicians I'm not sure about and keep the evidence in reserve for such a time as it may be needed in the future. Using these methods, I can steer certain politicians into positions of power and keep the ones I have no interest in away from positions of power. (I am not starting from scratch, of course, because my father, grandfather, great-grandfather etc. have been running similar operations for many, many years and so I already have "agents" in the government who will basically toe the line. These politicians rarely even know what my agenda is because I only convince/bribe/blackmail them into doing what it is in their power to do.) The vast majority of politicians, then, have very little real power and are kept too busy to effectively join all the dots. (My own MP (Lorraine Fullbrook) told me that she can only afford to employ one assistant and has so much work to do that she hardly even has time to sleep.)

Given (again, for argument's sake) that the above is true and I believe that to keep the population under control there needs to be more stringent laws which favour me and my kind (the Elite) and keep the "useless eaters" (as Henry Kissinger allegedly described ordinary people) down and powerless. The best way to do this is through law making and by manipulating public opinion. I want to convince you that it's for your own good to give away your rights. How to do this?

Firstly, using serving intelligence agents, or even retired ones, I trick, bully, blackmail, pay or otherwise convince some fairly harmless "malcontents" into doing the dirty work. This is not quite so difficult as it may first appear. The patsies are convinced that "the authorities" are onto them and that if they don't cooperate they'll be going to jail, get sent to Guantanamo Bay or something equally frightening. To avoid this scenario, they are asked to carry "fake bombs" onto trains or buses as part of an "exercise" to test security. On the day the patsies
undertake their "exercise" a "real" exercise is also taking place at exactly the same time (as happened on both 9/11 and 7/7). Of course, the patsies' bombs are not fake at all and the mock attack becomes real, wiping out innocent civilians and the patsies at the same time. As you can see, this does not require the complicity of very many people at all, just a few key personnel.

Once the attack has happened, my "agents" in government, industry and the media start shouting that "something must be done" to protect us all from such fiendish "terrorist attacks." Thus we get, very quickly in most cases, legislation such as The Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 (UK) or The Patriot Act (USA) - legislation which chips away at the civil liberties of the useless eaters. This is, of course, an extreme example but, as you can see, it doesn't take very many people to commit such an atrocity. (Indeed, if the official story of 9/11 is true it took only 19 hijackers to kill 2,977 people and plunge the world into terror and war. On 7/7, officially, it took only four people.) As a result, the useless eaters have a little more of their power taken away. Then I'll wait a while and look for an opportunity to advance my plans a little more. The freedom of a nation is not taken all at once, but in small increments until one day we wake up in a country where the majority of our laws are imposed from an unelected, foreign beurocracy... And what do the useless eaters do? They welcome it. The ones who criticise or question are marginalized, demonized, lampooned or even killed (Dr David Kelly, Robin Cook etc.).

The above extreme example, of course, does not occur in a vacuum. The vast majority of my goals are achieved in the shadows - in secret meetings between my agents and often unknowing politicians who can be made to see the sense (and the personal gain) of doing things may way. The addition of a small legislative change here or the green-lighting of a corporate project there. The rewards for compliance are generous (for example, Tony Blair now earns millions working for JP Morgan Chase, one of the major banks raping the British people).

Our governments don't need to be destroyed, just cleaned and returned to us.

[mogzilla]

viva la revolution! power to the people! these romans are crazy!!!

[Jared Katooie]

It also occoured to me that in this new, post-wikileaks- world, that it is incredible to believe that any information on anything of public import remains hidden.

Oh I wouldn't go that far. Governemnts are incompotent and are often caught out, but there's bound to be some stuff which manages to remain hidden. It counts in their favour that there are very real consequences for those who do get caught leaking information.

Pfc. Bradley Manning.

[The Legendary Shark]

I don't trust Wikileaks

[The Legendary Shark]

Sometimes, we talk about these things in the Yap Shop (well, I talk about them but most people just ignore me and chat around it), so why not drop in tonight? Things usually get going proper after 8pm.

We mainly talk about other stuff, though - comics, movies, music, whatever. Come along and have some fun!

[JOE SOAP]

Oh I wouldn't go that far. Governemnts are incompotent and are often caught out, but there's bound to be some stuff which manages to remain hidden.

Plenty of sexual blackmail too.

[IAMTHESYSTEM]

Plenty of sexual blackmail too.

There are rumours that either the British Security Forces or former Warsaw Pact members blackmailed the then British Prime Minister Harold Wilson because he was allegedly a secret Bi-sexual. Wilson re signed complaining bitterly against dark forces moving against him.

I watched a truly disturbing programme on I think the Military History channel about Operation Gladio with it's strategy of tension with the left. Central to this strategy was the instigation of centre right goverments in Europe.

Extreme right wingers infiltrated left wing groups to discredit them commiting appalling acts of terrorism. 16 people in Germany were blown up at the Oktoberfest. One of these right wing maniacs died in the blast probably by his own malfunctioning bomb.

Hideous though it is too contemplate was Wilson, a socialist deliberatley undermined as part of this Gladio operation ?

Chilling viewing.

[Stan]

Governments look incompetent because they're busy running around like headless chickens covering up for the rape and pillage conducted by our corporate masters, which is almost impossible to do with a straight face. Hence we point and laugh at their stupidity as they suck people dry of their wealth and freedoms like a super-blackhole. Then we vote them back into office.

[The Legendary Shark]

"Libyan Hospitals Attacked"

No sources listed, so hopefully this isn't true. Still, I do get that horrible sinking feeling. Again...

http://www.countercurrents.org/nazemroaya200311.htm

http://www.irishrepublican.net/forum/showthread.php?67595-US-and-brits-bomb-hospital-in-Libya

[vzzbux]

How is the Libyan situation different to Zimbabwe? Oh yes the oil. How could I have overlooked that one.

They didn't want our help when we sent in the SAS to assassinate Gadaffi. (Well that little force wasn't there for anything else I can think of). Unless the Rebels have approached the coalition then we should stay out.



V

[The Legendary Shark]

In order to lay secure pipelines from the oil and gas fields in the Caspian Sea area to The Gulf/Arabian Sea, control of Iraq and Afghanistan was required. Control of Iran would be preferable as it would allow a more direct route.

Libya, of course, has approximately 39.1 billion barrels of oil reserves of its own (far more than the Caspian Kazakhstan (9.0bn barrels) and Azerbaijan (7.0bn barrels) region). Control of pipelines through Libya and Egypt into the Red Sea might be one goal here. We've all been taught that Somali pirates are a nuisance at the southern end of the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden, so once Libya is on-side I wouldn't be surprised to see the Somali Republic begin to generate more news of terrorism, piracy and such to prepare the way for more Allied naval strength in the area to protect the oil routes.

Another goal might be the neutralization of the Libyan Navy and the establishment of "Allied" naval bases along the Libyan coast, thereby making oil tanker shipping through the Mediterranean more secure.

This is all pure conjecture on my part, of course.