The Political Thread

[ZenArcade]

So you, Dog Deever, proudhuff, 8 ball  and Trip will swing it for the yes camp then Sauchie? Z

[Dog Deever]

I'd also just like to don my hat of pedantry for a moment to point out that no country is really independent in this modern world. I'm wondering if the question should be about equal interdependence and be asked of everyone in the UK (and Europe, the rest of the world, etc.).

It is about being independent of the UK, not of everything. And frankly, no- it's our countries sovreignty, it is down to Scotland to decide. London has had its say for 300 years- it's our turn now, because they have made a shambles of it.
We, as a country, don't want privatised NHS, prescription charges, bedroom tax, student fees. The rest of the UK already has that, except for the privatised NHS- which is beginning now and will be complete before you can say "hang on a mo...". There is a distinct possibility that if we remain in the UK we will lose all of that too soon after.

[Dog Deever]

So you, Dog Deever, proudhuff, 8 ball  and Trip will swing it for the yes camp then Sauchie? Z

My three boys are all Yes and my wife is away on the 18th and I'm her proxy... 

[Frank]

I'm voting NO, neebs. Not because I think independence would be a disaster or that Scotland's incapable of governing itself *, but because I don't think replacing Holyrood rule with Westminster rule will make any difference at all. If something more radical was on offer I would be interested, but it isn't.



* although Scotland's current ruling elite are a sorry, sorry shower

[Proudhuff]

Its a funny old game. In my experience the left is split 70/30 for YES, but there are unusual YES and NO voters all around, I have ex-Forces workmates who I would have assumed were NOs have been out working their socks of for YES and slipping The Wee Blue Book into everyone's pocket, meanwhile ex-punks from my old scheme are dead set against it. The rule book ready has been ripped up, the future is unwritten!!!

[Jim_Campbell]

London has had its say for 300 years-

James I/VI could have moved the seat of government to Edinburgh, you know, but rather fancied the idea of lording it up over the London court.

I thought Radio 4's Now Show identified a crucial tactical error by the No campaign when they failed to recruit Christopher Walken to deliver the 'Better Together' message...

Cheers

Jim

[Dog Deever]

London has had its say for 300 years-

James I/VI could have moved the seat of government to Edinburgh, you know, but rather fancied the idea of lording it up over the London court.

I thought Radio 4's Now Show identified a crucial tactical error by the No campaign when they failed to recruit Christopher Walken to deliver the 'Better Together' message...

Cheers

Jim

True, but that was before the Union of parliaments (1707) and is only relevant to the Crown not Parliament.

[The Legendary Shark]

Sorry if my questions were obvious. I really can't get interested in this pantomime and I don't mean any ioffence by that - I know a lot of people are taking this very seriously. Of course I take it seriously too but for very different reasons, which I won't repeat here.
.
I really don't care about "Scotland" as, to me, it's just an artificial entity. That said, I don't care about "England", "Wales", "Northern Ireland" or any other of them for that matter. Now, the Scottish people, the English people - all people - I do care about. I think that personal independence is the goal for all of us.
.
Yeah, yeah - I know; shut up, Shark, you old idealist!

[ZenArcade]

Oh sharky you old idealist where ever would we be without you. Z

[Frank]

I really don't care about "Scotland" as, to me, it's just an artificial entity

Aye, that's pretty much my own outlook.

[Satanist]

I really don't care about "Scotland" as, to me, it's just an artificial entity

Aye, that's pretty much my own outlook.

CONFIRMED - Scotland is the Matrix.

I'm voting yes even though I suspect it'll all go tits up pronto. If I find that my quality of life gets better that'll be great but if I'm bashing your head in for a can of beans while dressed like I just stepped out the thunderdome then thats good as well. Win/Win!

I HAVE to vote yes just so I can see what happens next. Thats about as far as Ive thought it through.

[Dog Deever]

Sauchie, forgive me for trying to sway you this once, there is still time...

If you are looking for radical alternatives to the main thrust of where the debate is at, it depends greatly on whether you are radical Left, or radical right. The no vote has by far the Lion's share of the far right (UKIP, BNP, NF, Britannica, Scottish Defence League and the Orange Order, although the CPGB are in there too (clue in the name). If you are one of these (and I'm not asking) then, obviously- I cannot sway you.

Most of the radical left seem to be either 'abstain' or 'Yes'.
Anarchists I know are divided on this and will vote according to whether they see it as 'endorsing the politics of both nationalism on both sides and endorsing parliamentary democracy'; others see it as a vote for decentralisation of power and not at all about Nationalism. Some radical left see this as a chance to remove last vestiges of Imperialism.

You won't get a separate currency or an end to Royalty out of voting No, though. There are those in the Yes camp who want that and other radical reform- such as the early repeal of a parliament that does not meet its electoral promises from Solidarity (firmly Yes)- it depends what your 'radical' constitutes, I guess. I want more radical change than the SNP too, but see independence as one step in a struggle that will likely still be ongoing when I am dead; any progressive forward move is better than either none or a backward one. Just how I see it.

My daughter has now confirmed her Yes status too. I was worried about this as her boyfriend (really pleasant and likable guy) is an all-singing and dancing, unrepentant sectarian bigot and an entrenched No voter who cannot see beyond the football vote, despite the fact he is a literate and intelligent young man, and I daresay many of his friends are the same.

[Montynero]

I've been doing my own research rather than listening to the bilge pumped out by leaders on both sides. Here's my thoughts on Thursday's vote:

http://montycomics.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/thoughts-on-thusdays-independence-vote.html

[ZenArcade]

The troika of political parties from Westminster appear clueless and rudderless. I have seen nothing on news magazine programmes all evening but thinly disguised panic. This is truly indicative of the level of politician we are served by nowadays. I fear greatly not for my friends in Scotland rather for my friends in England, Wales and NI. We have been living in an era of total economic mismanagement over the past 6 years. Nothing has been done to learn from the mistakes made. The move for regulation of banks and interests has not been in any real sense even seriously considered let alone implemented. We see a chancellor who's main effort to revitalise the economy has not been the necessary investment in training and infrastructure rather an artificially created property bubble, the very thing which led to our near ruin in 2007-2008 and yet we accuse the Scots of economic naivety,  seriously!!
The Scottish people.have a real opportunity to create.something different and new and as a corollary possibly shift the dynamic back into the hands of the majority of people in the rUK. If there is a no vote on Thursday, nothing will change the neo monetarist paradigm will be strengthend as the ruling elites will see a genuine effort to do something different as being quashed and the common populace suitably demoralised and even more malleable or plyable for the next butchery they intend to inflict on us.
If you're for them they'll sell you out; if you're against them they'll buy you out. I hope Scottish people are brave and steadfast and vote for the possibility of change and thusly real freedom. Z

[8-Ball]

So you, Dog Deever, proudhuff, 8 ball  and Trip will swing it for the yes camp then Sauchie? Z

I never run from a fight so I will be voting NO. I will be standing with my leftist brothers and sisters in the rest of the UK to fight against Conservative State. The rest of the UK needs Scotland's benign hand to guide it. The rest of the UK needs to sort its shit out.