The Political Thread

[Professor Bear]

Universal Credit, if implemented on the current schedule (it won't be), will end up costing 14 billion, the exact amount the Tories are cutting from welfare.  There's an odd coincidence.

[Hawkmumbler]

Isn't Tory Manifesto a porn star?

[Old Tankie]

Where did I say I had faith in the Tory manifesto pledges, Jim?  The reason I don't believe the Tories will get rid of the NHS in its current state and introduce any more charging at point of use is that it would be political suicide and I simply don't believe that they're that stupid.  But again, only time will tell.  I don't know what's going to happen in the future anymore than you do.

[Jim_Campbell]

Where did I say I had faith in the Tory manifesto pledges, Jim?  The reason I don't believe the Tories will get rid of the NHS in its current state and introduce any more charging at point of use is that it would be political suicide and I simply don't believe that they're that stupid.  But again, only time will tell.  I don't know what's going to happen in the future anymore than you do.

Other than the fact that they have said what they intend to do?

Also: you were the one who quoted the Tory manifesto pledge as if it meant something — if you don't have any faith in it, why did you bring it up?

Jim

[Old Tankie]

I put a question mark.  It wasn't a statement of support.

[Jim_Campbell]

I put a question mark.

You don't actually understand how question marks work, do you? If you ask me —rhetorically— whether the Tories pledged £8bn as a rebuttal to my point, it tends to mean that you're offering this as a counter to my original argument. Which would suggest, given your general position in opposition to my point, that you think you're supporting your own argument.

I can't believe I'm having to explain your own posts to you. Please learn the basic techniques of logic and argument and have another go when you've got a clue.

Jim

[The Legendary Shark]

Bear, the alternative is very simple. The government (or other public body) takes over the banks' role and creates money out of nothing for itself/the country. Money could still be created as debt but, crucially, be lent out at 0% interest. As the debts are repaid, government money reserves grow so that, over time, less and less money needs to be created to keep the economy/country going. In short, we make the monetary system work the way most people think it works now.
.
This solution, as I have said all along, is so simple that it could be instituted virtually overnight.

[Old Tankie]

Jim, why do you have to be so nasty?  I don't believe I've insulted you in any way in this discussion and I don't intend to start now.  Go to the top of the class, your knowledge of written English is better than mine.  It doesn't mean I can't have an opinion though, although maybe in your world it does.

[Jim_Campbell]

Jim, why do you have to be so nasty?  I don't believe I've insulted you in any way in this discussion and I don't intend to start now.  Go to the top of the class, your knowledge of written English is better than mine.  It doesn't mean I can't have an opinion though, although maybe in your world it does.

I'm not being nasty. If you join in a political discussion (and no one was forcing you to chip in with your point about the NHS "not being free") then it's incumbent upon you to be able to put up an argument worth the name. There's a reason why you don't see me joining in many 100 meter races — I can't run very fast. You have to pick your battles.

I have never said you can't have an opinion, and nor would I. You were attempting to present some kind of counter-argument or rebuttal to my post, but that argument didn't hold up. It is neither rude nor nasty to point that out on a discussion forum.

Jim

[Old Tankie]

Okay, Jim, I'll bite!!  As far as I'm aware, you don't have sole control of the board.  I'll post what I like, when I like, until I'm told not to by the moderators.  You don't think my argument stands up, I obliviously do.  It's called a difference of opinion and I'll continue to answer your posts when I think you're talking nonsense.

[The Legendary Shark]

You need a thick skin on this thread!

[Old Tankie]

 

[Frank]

The reason I don't believe the Tories will get rid of the NHS in its current state and introduce any more charging at point of use is that it would be political suicide

I don't reckon this government will dismantle the NHS either, Tankie. It'll be a Labour government who do that, because only they can get away with it. Thankfully, the chances of Labour regaining power anytime soon are as remote as the odds on Andy Diggle getting a Christmas card from Pat Mills.

Dave and Gideon are definitely laying the groundwork for it though, and the other side are helping too. This morning, the Today programme discussed plans to make consultants work weekends, and the terms of the debate were the same as usual - both the government and the NHS itself frame it as a service in crisis, which will collapse completely if change doesn't come soon.

The longer that narrative continues being pushed by both sides, the more everyone will get bored listening to it and plump for the easiest option to end the constant bad news. If, twenty years ago, you'd asked me what the chances were of student grants being replaced by loans, I'd have said it was unlikely. A decade of bad headlines (about the system being broken and financially unsustainable) later, and all parties suddenly arrive at a consensus - then the Labour party stick the knife in.

[Old Tankie]

Fair point.

[Frank]

The BBC is about five years into the same process of constant negative press (from commercial rivals ,who stand to gain from its demise), and the opposition parties' polling tells them that there are few votes to be won championing a tax that prevents folk being able to buy all the Sky channels they want and which pays leftie executives to cover up the abuse of children.

Whenever you tell folk something is too expensive, the only solution they (public or politicians) can come up with is privatisation, because that's been the dominant narrative for the last three decades. People can't even conceive of solutions which don't involve throwing in the towel and letting markets sort it out.