Well, another Regened arrives. As with previous RP's (Regened Progs), this does feel like a bit of a mixed bag. There are clear strengths and potential returners. We've had stronger ones but there are enough positives for it to have a shot at strong runner up.
Cadet Dredd - The Block With No Name. A bit of an Oliver Twist type tale from Johnson and Redhead. A nice variation on the normal theme exploring Rico's slow descent. In some respects it also harks back to the early days of Dredd as a 'one and done'. Possibly the weaker strip of this prog but mainly because of some of what follows.
Mayflies - The Way Forward. Carroll and Coleby rather unsurprisingly is the stand-out for this issue. Coleby is clearly making the world of Rogue Trooper his own between this and Jaegir. Teague's colour palette is an interesting choice in comparison with that of the Jaegir strip, muted and simple. Carroll's plot is also politically timely.
'Splorers - Rennie, Beeby and Googe's Survival Geeks spin-off is another that shows potential. The relative predictability of the plot is offset by the usual selection of in-jokes from nerd culture. As usual, Googe's artistic sensibilities serve the tale well.
Future Shocks - an interesting tale from Stock and Roberts. FS's are, as we all know, notoriously difficult despite the simple format. You know, set up a scenario, throw in a bit of action and then deliver a punchline that has potentially been telegraphed from the word go and seems obvious at the end but ties everything off neatly. To be fair it does this well.
Chopper - Barnett and Roche take this back to the earliest days of the character and the strip is replete with nods to his first appearance. In honesty on a first reading it left me cold. Going back to it again though, it's clearly a stronger strip than it appears. Once the fourth wall is left alone and it concentrates on telling its tale properly it works far better. Roche's artwork is well suited to it.
As we've previously said, Regened is starting to find a more consistent voice. We now have a growing body of material that has potential for future development. It also feels like artistically the RP is finding a more consistent feel, balancing the sensibilities of a chronologically diverse audience with that of the strips themselves.
Given the steady development trajectory it may well be that it won't be long before this becomes strong enough to try to spin off and run on its own. Mind you, as has been frequently observed around these parts, that would be quite a challenge in the current media landscape.
Cover by Steve Roberts:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9JMffGWQAEGLoE?format=jpg&name=large)
Cover and Logo:
(https://comicsceneorg.files.wordpress.com/2021/08/img_6255.jpg)
From a newsletter by John Freeman related to the regen prog:
The Perils of Doing Nothing
Why British comics publishers reinvent their characters
This week, British comics publisher Rebellion releases their latest 2000AD Regened "All Ages Takeover" edition of the weekly SF comic, the third of four this year. The title's editorial team are clearly, and, quite rightly, in my view, determined to ensure the Galaxy's Greatest Comic's continued success, by trying to attract new readers.
The new issue, on sale in newsagents and comic shops this Wednesday has, sadly, prompted some criticism from older 2000AD fans, a vocal few complaining that the Regened project is a waste of their galactic groats.
I beg to differ. Quite apart from the fact that we're talking just four issues a year devoted to this reinvention of classic 2000AD characters, and some new ones introduced, too, how is any long-running comic going to survive if it doesn't shake things up now and again, and do its best to attract new readers to join the many and varied ranks of the Squaxx dek Thargo who have been reading the title since it began, way back in 1977, myself included?
Lon-running, long established British comic characters face an ongoing challenge to continue to be a commercial success. Especially as the property ages, and the vehicles for their continued success - principally, weekly cover to cover comic-strip dominated publications - are few and far between, largely supplanted by license-driven, more magazine format titles. A change that began to really gather pace in the 1980s after the earlier success of Star Wars Weekly, and is now hard to challenge on the news stand. (There are other factors, but I won't get into things like distribution and marketing costs here).
To be absolutely blunt, the core audience for 2000AD, the much appreciated longtime fan who was there when Judge Dredd and Strontium Dog were young, aren't getting any younger, and that's inevitably a worry for the owners of the Galaxy's Greatest Comic, who have invested heavily in the title's long term commercial success. They need to keep picking up new readers to do that, which is what the 2000AD Regened project, offering new takes in much-liked, long running characters, hopes to achieve.
Let's be realistic here. When it comes to the original fandom of other long standing British comic characters and titles, we're literally, sadly, seeing them vanish as time marches on. The first fans of Dan Dare's who followed the popular character in the original Eagle are in their eighties, or older. Consequently, attracting a commercially viable new following is hard if you're seeking to rely on that valued but now smaller core support. I should know; I was heavily involved in developing the Dan Dare Audio Adventures project and trust me, we darn well tried to make it work, and gained welcome critical acclaim for it. But not, unfortunately, enough commercial traction to keep it going.
The same is happening with the fandom for 1960s comics like TV Century 21, although the properties that inspired it, like Thunderbirds and Captain Scarlet, remain "evergreen".
Right now, the "nostalgia factor", commercially, is currently more attuned to the 1980s, as evidenced by the success of TV series such as Stranger Things. Just last week, I listened in on an auction as bids on a small set of Terrahawks slides went way beyond estimated bids - and far and away much higher than other lots for earlier Gerry Anderson series you'd have thought would have attracted the greater hammer price.
Reinvention, while respecting the core values of a character that made them a success in the first place, is key to continuing commercial success for longtime comics properties, in my opinion. And while I'm being blunt, without that commercial success, you won't have the source material for future fandom, in all its disparate forms, to reminisce and argue about ten, twenty years and beyond. Because it simply won't be getting published.
Disney understands this. Hasbro, owners of Transformers, understand this. DC Thomson Media and Beano Studios get this, and their reinvention of their weekly humour comic, BEANO, while holding true to the core of characters like Dennis and Minnie the Minx, first published in the 1950s, has paid off with weekly average sales of 58,000, the highest they've been in ten years or so.
So yes, I get why 2000AD are experimenting with Regened, although it's my feeling that the project would be better served by a new comic from Rebellion, but any hopes for that - and surely, the company must have been considering it - were bushwacked by a little thing called the Pandemic. (Personally, I'd actually love to see a new Buster or Whizzer and Chips before a new adventure comic, but that's my nostalgia head talking, not playing to Rebellion's strengths).
Rebellion have successfully reinvented Roy of the Rovers, so it makes absolute commercial good sense to try to do the same for 2000AD, its tent pole title. I wish them every success.
I wasn't sure about this one. It wasn't bad, but it lacked spark. 'Splorers was the best strip for me. It was breezy and fun, and had a nice slice of anarchy about it. The strip also struck me as one that could work well in a series, given that it could go anywhere. The Future Shock clicked for me as well.
In the middle was Mayflies, which feels a bit out of place somehow. I'm not sure why. I suspect frequency is the problem—this feels very much like part two of a six-issue run, but when those parts might be months or even a year apart, momentum becomes an enemy. Then again, there's no reason this couldn't fit into the regular Prog, and then be compiled in a subsequent Regened trade, assuming those are selling well.
Unfortunately, both Dreddworld tales left me cold. Chopper certainly has potential, but this version seemed sanitised. It lacked spirit and the hero didn't seem to have much rebellious nature in him. He seemed too safe, with his actions only propelled by feeling forced to help others. I know that angle does exist in Chopper, but this felt like all the edges had been removed.
Dredd, though, came off very odd for me. It's not that the story was bad—it really wasn't. The storytelling was coherent. It made sense. The minor twist at the end worked and recalls Dredd's social conscience from later strips. So it all held together very well in that sense. The problem for me is as the lead strip, it just doesn't make sense for me. Dredd in the original 2000 AD was always an extreme satire—a product of the 1970s, which then evolved into something smarter.
What is this Dredd, and how does he align with young readers? In a Beano analogy, it's more like a comic's lead strip being Walter (Obey the law! Don't step out of line!) than Dennis. Perhaps it's working and kids are into it. But in lacking the energy and anarchy of classic-era Dredd and being so straight-laced, I find it a strange one. Then again, who else would be the figurehead, other than Dredd, in this comic—although does it even need one? Nice cover, though, with a hint of Paul Peart.
'Splorers > Future Shock > Mayflies > Cadet Dredd > Chopper
I thought Mayflies worked perfectly well as a self-contained story. Maybe it will be part of a continuing series, but it works well on its own. It was my favourite strip in the prog.
Second Saturday Prog where I'm away for the weekend - stinking luck! As ever I'm aware that a man in his 40s reviewing a comic meant mainly for children is not easy, but I've been reading a load of The Phoenix and talking to children I'm related to about comics they like, so here we go.
Start with the cover - I liked it. It's bold and striking. My copy came with two covers, one all ripped up and mangled and then another pristine one stapled over it. Bonus! (of sorts)
Cadet Dredd - Felt quite safe and ordinary - looked nice, and am I the only one who thought Dredd had a touch of the Johnny Aplha about him with his green stripey top and yellow shoulderpad? Dredd seems to be consistently among the weakest strips in the Regend Progs: it feels like the concept is shoehorned in for the character rather than a more organic idea. IPs point about him connecting with the child readership I think is also a good one. Dredd here is neither a badass cop nor a cool child. I know when I gave a prevuous Regened to my brothers kids they couldn't have been less interested in him.
Mayflies - I may be at odds with the rest of the board here but didn't like this. I like the concept, and I think it's got definite legs, but the story seemed to cram a lot in with not much of it being action / exciting, and I couldn't remember who anyone was without reading the previous strip (which was months ago) - a Bash Street Kids style 'character heads and names' title wouldn't have gone amiss here. Definitely feels like this is part 2 of a longer run, with the gaps bewtween episodes hurting it: it also felt like a setup episode, when the previous episode was also a setup episode...? Finally as much as I am a huge fan of Coleby's art and enjoyed it here, I'm really not sure it's suited to an all-ages prog as literally everything I see kids reading has a very different style to it. Feels like this story has a ton of potential but needs a fine tune.
'Splorers - Definitely the best thing here IMO. Straightforward plot, absolutely gorgeous art, it's silly / funny / exciting / gross, which I think are all things children like in comics, and it's got enough nerd jokes in it to also make it readable for an adult, so it's got that all-ages thing going on. I think SG had run it's course but as a followup this could run for a while. Lovely stuff.
Future Shock - Art here was really, really good and felt in line with stuff I've read in The Phoenix etc. Not much of a Twist here but I think, if targeting an all-age audience, a more straightforward scifi tale is better. Good work here.
Chopper - The story didn't do anything for me but I did feel the art, again, was a good fit for the all ages prog. Chopper isn't cool / anarchic enough here to really stand out as a character here: add in the baggage of him being poorly used after his epic death and it felt unwelcome to see him back - I'd rather this was done with a new character, like a future Dennis the Menace, with more craziness / lawbreaking going on and less hearkening back to an IP kids won't care about.
Next week - Jaegir! This is AWESOME.
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 23 August, 2021, 10:04:31 AMwho thought Dredd had a touch of the Johnny Aplha about him with his green stripey top and yellow shoulderpad
I figured that was an intentional nod. His undercover name was John. (Also, with the face changes being done that far back, god knows what happened before all the crims saw Dredd's face during the infamous "censored" incident way back!)
QuoteIPs point about him connecting with the child readership I think is also a good one. Dredd here is neither a badass cop nor a cool child.
He's fundamentally a spoilsport, and it's quite curious that this issue is championing Chopper at the end, who Dredd would immediately jail
regardless of his intentions. It feels very "do the right thing, kids", in a manner that just doesn't sit right with me. If nothing else, it just feels very safe and cookie cutter. Compare that to, say, Full Tilt Boogie, which seemed comparatively fresh, interesting and different.
QuoteMayflies - ... I'm really not sure it's suited to an all-ages prog as literally everything I see kids reading has a very different style to it.
Although being notably grimmer, it's not a million miles away from some of the action fare in The Phoenix (Trailblazers; Legacy), but the lack of frequency robs it of momentum. That said, even in two episodes it manages to be more interesting than most versions of Rogue Trooper, so that's something.
Boots: totally agree with everything you say on Chopper. Again, there must be an editorial line here or something. Chopper felt very gentle. But perhaps an anarchic character who always gets one over on the Judges could be fun. That said, I'd sooner see new IP/worlds, given that they seem the most successful things so far from this run of mags for younglings.
Out of all the things I wouldn't expect in 2000AD, a reference to the end credits song from an obscure (but excellent) Aliens DS game is pretty high up there
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 23 August, 2021, 10:43:31 AM
QuoteMayflies - ... I'm really not sure it's suited to an all-ages prog as literally everything I see kids reading has a very different style to it.
Although being notably grimmer, it's not a million miles away from some of the action fare in The Phoenix (Trailblazers; Legacy), but the lack of frequency robs it of momentum. That said, even in two episodes it manages to be more interesting than most versions of Rogue Trooper, so that's something.
That's true about Trailblazers, I more meant the art being of a different style.. I couldn't see Coleby's art as drawn here working in something like the Phoenix despite how much I personally might like it. I reckon Mayflies would be a lot more appealing to all-ages readers if it was drawn by someline like Neill Cameron (although it is, as you say, a grimmer setting!)
There's a lot of assumption here on my part though tbf.
On the Dreddworld side, I do like the idea of a young perp always annoying Dredd and getting away with it, or some Grimly Feendish style bungler whose plans go wrong every issue but he just about escapes. Problem with both of these is it would make Dredd / the Justice Dept look a bit hapless.
Yeah, that's true about the art. The Phoenix doesn't really have a house style when it comes to comedy strips, but its action ones are all quite similar. Still, I'm not sure whether that would be a blocker to a kid approaching the comic for the first time. (I can't check that here. The youngling is, at 7, still in my view too young for Regened. She does like other Rebellion fare, though, and I would have bought Black Beth for her if it hadn't had that back-up strip.)
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 23 August, 2021, 10:04:31 AM
Mayflies - I'm really not sure it's suited to an all-ages prog as literally everything I see kids reading has a very different style to it. Feels like this story has a ton of potential but needs a fine tune.
This is a fair point but then again it's worth remembering that this is an 'all ages' takeover. There is plenty in it that is aimed at the artistic sensibilities of a younger audience. It is a strip that, like Department K, could take its place quite comfortably in the Prog.
I do think your other observations are equally valid regarding the tale mind.
BTW - I do also agree on the Dredd / no, it's Johnny Alpha thing. The glasses as well ... very reminiscent of his pre revolutionary days (Alpha, not Dredd).
oh and Jaegir returns? Hell yeah!
Shouldn't Regened be a separate publication, though? :-\
I've not seen the prog yet but understand the frustration about 'Cadet Dredd'. To my mind none of the stock 2000AD characters who've appeared in Regened have been particularly well served by these appearances, with the possible exception of Anderson.
Rather than doing Regened-friendly versions of Tooth's big hitters, wouldn't it make more sense to have one-off revivals for more child-orientated characters - Wolfie Smith? Luke Kirby? Mind Wars? Maybe even Witch World?
The Cadet Dredd stories so far has been like the Future Shocks hit and miss.
The tone of Cadet Dredd is odd, and especially so when you hold it up to the Dredd in early 2000 AD. He was played as a hero sometimes, but a brutal, pitiless hero in the mould of Dirty Harry. Cadet Dredd is a shiny, clean hero, with none of the punk sensibilities of early 2000 AD.
I don't know if that's a mistake or not - but a lot of what appealed about 2000 AD when I started reading it was the edge it was riding. For something contemporary, look to Star Wars - Luke is something of a clean cut hero in regards his actions, but his parents just don't understand (https://youtu.be/jW3PFC86UNI)* (I know - it's his uncle and aunt), and he whines quite a lot. He doesn't get the girl (because he's too short). The actual heroic fighter pilot character is a rogue and the entire galaxy is filthy.
Why should "all ages" be so grit-free?
*And now the antidote (https://youtu.be/OQvDRe79F8k).
Quote from: The Corinthian on 23 August, 2021, 07:09:37 PMnone of the stock 2000AD characters who've appeared in Regened have been particularly well served by these appearances, with the possible exception of Anderson
I liked the Strontium Dog strip, with that tale of the young Alpha. But what's really caught my imagination is the fully new stuff. I imagine all of this is tough. Rebellion has a ton of expertise but has spent a very long time primarily catering to old gits. There's quite a bit of recalibration to make publications for younglings. And then there's the market having shifted so radically since even the 1990s, let alone the 1970s. Then add to that Regened being forced to work in slow motion, with four issues per year rather than, ideally, 12–13 or, more ideally, 49–52.
Well I really enjoyed this one. My main beef was Cadet Dredd, both on the cover - soooo close to good, but that background colour meant the wonderful main image didn't POP the way it otherwise might... I have idea what colour would have worked cos I'm not a good artist but damn that was frustratingly close to a GREAT cover.
Much like the Cadet Dredd strip itself. It just didn't pop. Was at least two (probably three) pages too long and the whole Johnny Alpha thing was needlessly cute (as was Prints Jubliee off of the X-men right?!?). If I'm honest as well the art didn't fizz or have any zip either. Shame as there was a good story somewhere in here.
Mayflies also suffered from too many pages I think. I really enjoyed it but felt it was padded a bit. loved the beginning - the way they got past security was brilliant. The end had punch and fizz (missing above) and set up things to come beautifully. It just sagged in the middle... something I relate to alas these days. Still very good thrill overall.
'Splorers was WAY to cute to be acceptible in the Prog ... but I LOVED IT... I mean it was utterly out of place - it would work a treat in The Phoenix as would Neil Googe's stupendous art... but damn when its this much fun its hard to deny it its place here. It was so funny and ... well lovely and fun.... just should 2000ad be lovely and fun... we'll give it this one.
I'll admit I never like Steve Roberts art on Bec and Kawl back in the day and hated it on Sinister Dexter, but here I thought it really worked on the Future Shock. Story was simple and fun too.
This prog saved the best until last. I thought Chopper was brilliant. I really like the way it used the breaking the fourth wall, character talkign you through the story. It was brisk and joyous. That ending with the monies past along the line was brilliant. I loved the use of Marlon's family. I think Chopper is perfect for the Regened. The fact that he fights authority gives him a bit an edge these stories need. More of this please.
Other all another success for me. Not perfect, but more new strips I'd welcome back and if the Dredd had been as strong as some of the others, I think he needs to play off Rico, in the Regened this would have been an absolute winner.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 23 August, 2021, 09:07:26 PM
that background colour meant the wonderful main image didn't POP the way it otherwise might... I have idea what colour would have worked cos I'm not a good artist but damn that was frustratingly close to a GREAT cover.
With the monster being chartreuse, you could've done a complimentary scheme (those tend to pop) and used magenta as the background - but they've already used that for the eyeballs as an accent color. Anything you do with purples in the back is going to drag the eyeballs away from the foreground, so it's a sticky wicket. Seems like they figured the smoke being driven up by the beastie could harmonize by drifting into yellow-ish tones.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 23 August, 2021, 07:00:26 PM
Shouldn't Regened be a separate publication, though? :-\
We've been around this more times than Johnson on a simple policy decision. ::) Possibly long term it will spin off into its own but right now the likelihood of it succeeding on its own is potentially quite slim all things considered.
Whilst I am, like you, ambivalent about it impacting our regular schedule, I like the experimental nature of the RP. Arguably it also keeps in with the trend over the years to try things a little off the wall to see how they work out. Some do ... some don't [Mark Millar on Robo-hunter for instance ...] :o
Quote from: Funt Solo on 23 August, 2021, 07:00:26 PM
Shouldn't Regened be a separate publication, though? :-\
I'm not sure if this meant to be humorous, or if you're
really expecting me to paste in the same explanation of the costs/risks of launching a new title into the high street, and the additional massive problems the pandemic has added in on top
again...?
(For what it's worth, there's as good a version as any of my multiple posts on this subject here (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=47376.msg1057248#msg1057248) with useful additional commentary from IP in the posts that follow on the same page.)
I'll also add a final thought from my recent repition of all that on the 2000AD FB groups: Personally, I'm happy to pay for four progs a year that aren't targetted at me, if it improves the financial health of the product as a whole and makes it more likely that we'll continue to get the other 40-odd progs for the rest of the year.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 24 August, 2021, 08:17:24 AM
I'll also add a final thought from my recent repition of all that on the 2000AD FB groups: Personally, I'm happy to pay for four progs a year that aren't targetted at me, if it improves the financial health of the product as a whole and makes it more likely that we'll continue to get the other 40-odd progs for the rest of the year.
I'm always surprised when fans of 2000ad don't embrace something different. I mean its absolutely fine if something doesn't work for you, but surely one of 2000ad's key strengths is its ability to make you try different things by its very anthology nature.
There may be a through line in tone, but its constantly flexed and pushed the boundaries of that with varying degrees of success. I never quite understand why folks who read a comic about variety, which has embraced change can be so (small c) conservative at times...
...mind as I always also say its that very diversity in the comic that allows for such a diverse fanbase so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 24 August, 2021, 08:17:24 AM
I'll also add a final thought from my recent repition of all that on the 2000AD FB groups: Personally, I'm happy to pay for four progs a year that aren't targetted at me, if it improves the financial health of the product as a whole and makes it more likely that we'll continue to get the other 40-odd progs for the rest of the year.
This is also how I feel. I do not mind 4 regen issues if this means that I will still be able to read the regular prog. I can say that even if I am not the demo group the regen prog is aimed at it is definitely growing on me and I am enjoying it more and more (I still need to read the last one)
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 24 August, 2021, 08:17:24 AM
I'll also add a final thought from my recent repition of all that on the 2000AD FB groups: Personally, I'm happy to pay for four progs a year that aren't targetted at me, if it improves the financial health of the product as a whole and makes it more likely that we'll continue to get the other 40-odd progs for the rest of the year.
This perfectly sums up my thoughts on it too. Even if I don't enjoy a single thing in them (which sometimes I have, but not usually) it's still a worthwhile price for what we get the rest of the year. I'd like to think we all recognise it's an experiment, too.
I've been thinking about the idea of having a Dreddworld 'baddie' strip instead of Cadet Dredd and I think my choice would be Captain Skank, written and drawn by Lew Stringer.
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 24 August, 2021, 09:45:53 AM
I've been thinking about the idea of having a Dreddworld 'baddie' strip instead of Cadet Dredd and I think my choice would be Captain Skank, written and drawn by Lew Stringer.
Young Otto by Jamie Smart - then every comic should have a strip by Jamie Smart!
Alas, he's apparently too busy. (At least he said he was when I nagged Rebellion about why there's been no Jamie Smart in the Treasury comedy comics.)
QuoteCaptain Skank
Nah, I'd rather they came up with new characters rather than harking back to stories from the '80s which the target audience won't have read.
Quote from: Richard on 24 August, 2021, 11:10:34 AM
QuoteCaptain Skank
Nah, I'd rather they came up with new characters rather than harking back to stories from the '80s which the target audience won't have read.
Oh I definitely feel the same, but if we're were going to use existing characters then this is my pick for a Dreddworld character instead of Chopper.
I'm inventing wildly at this point of course.
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 24 August, 2021, 09:45:53 AM
Even if I don't enjoy a single thing in them
TBH, that's the thing that
really bugs me about this whole debate — the kind of 'fan' who dismisses every Regened issue out of hand as "kiddie crap" when, I'm sure, if they read it with a slightly more open mind they might find at least
one strip they enjoy.
I mean, God knows, there've been enough runs of the regular prog over the years where there have been multiple strips that weren't doing anything for me. And, yes, I may have griped about that (which any paying punter is entitled to do) but I've also accepted that it's an anthology and this will happen every once in a while.
Quote from: broodblik on 24 August, 2021, 08:52:30 AM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 24 August, 2021, 08:17:24 AM
I'll also add a final thought from my recent repition of all that on the 2000AD FB groups: Personally, I'm happy to pay for four progs a year that aren't targetted at me, if it improves the financial health of the product as a whole and makes it more likely that we'll continue to get the other 40-odd progs for the rest of the year.
This is also how I feel. I do not mind 4 regen issues if this means that I will still be able to read the regular prog.
Unapologetically no fan of the Regened publication method or the majority of the content, even if I can appreciate the rational.
As an aside - was there any actual talk regarding the inclusion of Regened being relevant to the continued publication of 2000AD?
Quote from: Funt Solo on 23 August, 2021, 07:00:26 PM
Shouldn't Regened be a separate publication, though? :-\
You had to go and say that didn't you! ::)
... can .... open .... worms .... everywhere .....
Quote from: Link Prime on 24 August, 2021, 11:54:24 AM
As an aside - was there any actual talk regarding the inclusion of Regened being relevant to the continued publication of 2000AD?
No. But simple logic suggests if that you rely on a 'core readership' that ain't getting any younger, you're looking at a slow but inevitable trajectory to cancellation. We're told that the Regened issues are the best sellers each year, which is probably enough reason alone to do them, before considering that they're a beachhead into the insanely lucrative all-age/YA TPB/OGN market, which is by far the healthiest segment of the (western) comic industry.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 24 August, 2021, 10:53:24 AM
Alas, he's apparently too busy. (At least he said he was when I nagged Rebellion about why there's been no Jamie Smart in the Treasury comedy comics.)
Well he should bloody well work harder. I mean we're only getting two strips by him in The Phoenix every week at the moment!... and he's probably writing another Flember book... and doing other things... what's he doing with the rest of his time - THAT'S THE QUESTION HERE...
Quote from: Funt Solo on 23 August, 2021, 07:00:26 PM
Shouldn't Regened be a separate publication, though? :-\
I thought it would be obvious I was 'aving a laugh, what with the smiley and that we've been over this quarterly for a while now . Reckon the group must still need to process, so it's all good.
While we're at it, why can't FCBD be sold online?
;)
Right, and then I wouldn't have to make that terribly inconvenient journey to the comic shop. Every time I go there I get distracted by some other thing I want to buy and before you know it I've spent money there that I wouldn't otherwise have spent.
Launching Regened should be fairly simple for Rebellion, anyway - because they built a film studio and that Jason Kingsley fella is a real King (https://youtu.be/WeVcey0Ng-w), with a horse and armour and everything.
While we're discussing obvious common sense stuff - perhaps someone can explain to me why some stories are still in black and white when colour is better!
Quote from: Funt Solo on 24 August, 2021, 04:04:24 PM
While we're discussing obvious common sense stuff - perhaps someone can explain to me why some stories are still in black and white when colour is better!
Oh that's easy ... the license is cheaper ...
Really enjoyed this.
Not sure about Dredd not looking like Dredd for most of the story though. That was a strange idea. Art is great.
Really enjoyed 'Splorers which was just masterful and I love how it follows on from Survival Geeks, it's actually quite moving. Looks brilliant but that's a given of course.
Mayflies is good and the art is great.
Enjoyed the Future Shock, it worked well, art suited it perfectly.
Chopper was good but the character doesn't act much like the original. Seems a bit too fluffy. Again the art here is great.
I'd like to see Finder and Keeper again, I thought those stories really worked.
As always, I love the Regened concept and look forward to it every quarter.
A good fun enjoyable regen issue. The regen progs are growing in stature, and this was one of the best so far.
Cadet Dredd - The Cadet Dredd was not bad but just felt it is missing "something". I feel if this concept is to be continued do, we need Cadet Dredd as the main course? I would rather see something new as the main feature of the regen prog.
Mayflies – If the first episode was an introduction, then the second one is the setup about what our team of blue youths will be doing. I enjoyed everything about this and can not wait for more.
Splorers – Great fun introduction and this was a brilliant "sequel" of the Survival Geeks storyline. I can see that this will work in sort bursts 2,3 episodes stories in the prog. I just love all those references to the geek-world and let's not forget the gorgeous art of Googe.
Shock – Well this was more a straightforward story than a real Future Shock. Not bad at all. I was never a fan of Steve Roberts work in the prog but here his art worked much better.
Chopper – A very enjoyable story and good supporting art by Nick Roche. This is how you do a classic character story, top-notch stuff.
splorers got me it genuinly did i did not realise it was a survival geeks spinoff until howard showed up :lol:
solid regened prog i enjoyed everything in it
I also do not get why a child or young reader would want a Cadet Dredd story - he's simply too straight. Also the art does not work - Dredd looks like he's 50 in most of the panel.
It's a comic of two 'alves, although that's just an incongruous football reference. It's really three fifths good, two fifths less good. You'll see what I mean if you read my reviews, in order of most to least thrilling:
'Splorers
An absolutely kick-ass sequel to Survival Geeks, and perfectly pitched for Regened. I'm curious as to how this would play out for someone who isn't geeked up enough to get the references, and/or a fresh reader who isn't aware of the precursor series. I'll try it out on mini-Solo later and see what she thinks to it.
The art is a joy, and there are great moments throughout - the switch from imaginary play to reality - the escape flight panel and the "going to weep while explaining to parents" face. If there's a criticism, it's that the denouement doesn't have the same energy, although it does set us up for a potential sequel.
(https://i.imgur.com/HGjjslG.png)
Mayflies: The Way Forward
A six-way ensemble is a tough thing to manage: as a reader it's a lot to take in and sift, especially when the palette is merging them all together. Compare this to any other story in this issue: none of the others have a problem where the reader can't easily identify the speaking protagonist. So, completely lost, I had to look out the previous episode (prog 2220) to get a handle on who's who:
Squad Leader - Zuli - Long hair
Ground Trooper - Wrecks - Skinhead
Tactician - Otto - Lanky mohawk, can't walk
Hardware Tech - Artie - Short hair
Infiltrator - Slink - Hood
Scout - Rose - Pigmentation Flaw, short hair
Now, I only *think* I have Otto and Artie the right way around here. Also, was Otto wounded in the crash so can't walk? Or couldn't walk in the original either? I don't know: it seems like you would need more space to make sure the reader could tell the six apart, and allow them each to demonstrate their character. I'm not sure it's possible to do this well, so I'm thinking that six was a bad idea in the first place, or that they should be split up into sub-missions.
That aside: the art is great (caveat as above for difficultly in identifying folk) and the plot moves us along, but it does seem odd how stupid the Security detail are at the beginning. Also: that space truck is too much like a truck.
(https://i.imgur.com/eis4Zp0.png)
Future Shocks: Trash Culture
Fun, breezy and perhaps an homage to Waterworld - this even sets itself up for a sequel. Pretty good for a Future Shock.
(https://i.imgur.com/4uYrhJo.png)
Cadet Dredd: The Block With No Name
The panel I've chosen below really sums up my feelings for this one: so Dredd's a dick, then? I don't know what magic Wagner weaves to have made Dredd such a great character and Mega-City One such a compelling locale (surfing that fine line between fascist and hero), but having Dredd grass up some urchins surely wasn't it. The fact that the final bit sets up a lovely "fix the kids" block to lock them up in anew when they get out of the cubes just sort of cements the betrayal. In place of freedom, you get conformity.
This is Dredd written as Tory Party Manifesto and that just sucks. Down with this sort of thing.
(https://i.imgur.com/HV0Kca4.png)
Chopper: Chopper Don't Surf!
Rebooting the disenfranchised, zit-ridden, ennui-filled teenager that was Chopper as a ZIPPITY-KOW JUMPIN' JACK FLASH clean-cut jape-ster that quotes Shakespeare through the fourth wall is ... not nice. Please stop it. Why not invent a new sky-surfing character rather than borrow the name, some of the facts and none of the character. It would be far more honest. And why re-write it so that he has a completely different relationship with his parents? It's TOO NICE! Regened surely doesn't mean squeaky clean, does it? Shouldn't it still be 2000 AD? Does All Ages mean pandering to the most conservative parent?
(https://i.imgur.com/MHTf3kB.png)
Quote from: Funt Solo on 26 August, 2021, 12:57:42 AM
'Splorers ... I'm curious as to how this would play out for someone who isn't geeked up enough to get the references, and/or a fresh reader who isn't aware of the precursor series. I'll try it out on mini-Solo later and see what she thinks to it.
Ah - she loved it - got a few chortles - loudest for the vomit.
I see Splorers very much like the original Shrek where we have jokes for adults and jokes for the younglings. The movie worked for all viewing audiences and I believe Splorers will work for all reading audiences.
I've really enjoyed the Prog thread this week. I always like reading the thoughts of others on the Prog, but some good actual discussion going on this week.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 26 August, 2021, 12:57:42 AM
It's TOO NICE! Regened surely doesn't mean squeaky clean, does it? Shouldn't it still be 2000 AD? Does All Ages mean pandering to the most conservative parent?
Great observation I think Funt, and something that applies to a lot of the 'haven't worked so well' strips in Regened imo. A lot of them have been very straightforward and lacking in anything anarchic or subversive.
I'd still challenge the idea that these comics are all-ages, but I think the sweet spot to be pitched for is a childrens comic that an adult can still read and enjoy. For that I think we need a dose of craziness or carnage - which can be done without excessive violence or gore - and less 'nice'.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 26 August, 2021, 12:57:42 AMso Dredd's a dick, then?
Dredd was always a dick in early 2000 AD too. But the context was different in two key ways. First, back then most heroes with white men in their 20s and 30s. Kids today mostly want to read about characters their age. Secondly, Dredd is now depicted as in that age group—a contemporary. And he's a dick. So there's no distance.
But I'm not sure how you deal with that. If Cadet Dredd is supposed to exist within continuity, you can't have a personality transplant. In a strip ultimately about a fascist lawman—and centred on that character—where does any subversive element come from? Also, does it matter? It would be really interesting to discover what feedback has come more widely about this character/strip/approach among the target market.
From a personal standpoint, I find it curious that, on average, Dredd has been the weakest ongoing strip in Regened, and yet is frequently almost the most consistently successful strips in 2000 AD's modern history. But then even Chopper lacked that rebellious and anarchic edge. So that points at wider issues with the strips that sit within the Dredd continuity. (If, indeed, Rebellion considers them issues. Perhaps it wants a children's comic that is less anarchic than even The Phoenix's adventure tales—despite that being at odds with the comic's roots.)
QuoteIt's TOO NICE! Regened surely doesn't mean squeaky clean, does it? Shouldn't it still be 2000 AD? Does All Ages mean pandering to the most conservative parent?
As a parent, the only moment in Regened that's gave me pause was that one almost-swear. And that's because 'profanity = bad' has been drummed
so heavily into children at local schools; mini-IP would have a hell of a time if she let one slip at school. (Consequently, she now tells her parents off when we swear, or asks for explanations as to why we did, in context.) But it feels like certain aspects of Regened are playing it very safe, with no edge. Oddly, the Treasury specials also aimed at this age group didn't have that problem.
Mostly, it feels like the Dreddworld stuff still needs to find a voice that isn't a bit dull. If we look at 'Splorers, that's safe too—but it's also zany, bright and anarchic. Mayflies is safe, but gritty and with deep ideas about overcoming oppression. Full Tilt Boogie felt otherworldly and weird, despite ultimately being quite safe. Cadet Dredd is safe, but the overriding theme is to obey the law, be oppressed, conform and behave. It's Judge Walter, when kids would surely be more aligned with Judge Dennis.
(Also, as Barrington Boots said, it's good to see such constructive discussion about Regened going on here.)
I think this episode of Cadet Dredd could have worked if he'd sentenced the urchins (who had been misled by a charismatic Fagin character) to community service - perhaps delivering groceries for senior cits using their jet-boots. Or something: something where Dredd can still dish out punishments, but in a way where they fit the crime. You could do that and still hold true to the core spirit of the character.
I've not really found the earlier episodes problematic in terms of Judgement calls, mostly because they wisely play him as the hero against long odds. Having him punch down has hardly ever been part of the core character - with notable exceptions being complex stories like Democracy (which occur within a carefully constructed context).
A quick run-down of the previous Cadet Dredd outings:
Crowd Control had him take down an armed perp and punch out a velociraptor. (He also arrested both teams and the entire crowd, but it was very much part of a jokey punchline frame, rather than being personal.)
Cadet Dredd vs. Grudzilla had him take down a preening artiste who just so happened to also be a rampaging monster. Plus, Rico got pooped out of the perp. Nothing to criticize here.
School Trip had him up against anus-faced alien invaders.
Combat Ready wasn't very good - riffing too much on established continuity (where it's probably best to leave a classic like The Shooting Match alone). Dredd vs. mad droid.
Bad Seeds - Dredd vs. gang of dangerous psychos.
Tooth and Claw - it's Rico who's the dick (playing well to his character arc) and Dredd the peacemaker.
Coming to America - the perps are comic dealers - they deserve everything they get.
Suboptimal - Dredd vs. insane AI shopperama.
Lawbreaker - Dredd foams up some rioters, but this is really more about Rico bending the law.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 26 August, 2021, 04:19:56 PM
Tooth and Claw - it's Rico who's the dick (playing well to his character arc) and Dredd the peacemaker.
Lawbreaker - Dredd foams up some rioters, but this is really more about Rico bending the law.
These to are prime examples of what I mean about 'Cadet Dredd' working best when Rico and his development is used. It takes the edge off the fact that Dredd is a twat by having a bigger twat, in these examples Rico.
Now clearly this will wear thin quickly (I've never read Green's Grudge War but Conrad's musings on it seemed to show that as a prime example) but the principle can be used in lots of ways by folks more talented than me in such matters:
- A tutor out to get Dredd
Cadet Dredd on a Hot Dog run against any number of horrors and terrors out there
Heck just about any criminal that's a bigger monster than the Justice System
Come to my addled mind, but folks will be able to do better than that I'm sure. I think the key is to not play Dredd off against citizen's too much as that leaves him exposed and not fun for folks looking for someone to root for?
Which is effectively how Dredd is best played in the comics: that whole "when you're being mugged, who do you want riding up—me or your elected representative?" thing. So you can root for him when there's a bigger danger, or love to hate him when there isn't. The problem with young Dredd is the latter of those things is heavily eroded and he just becomes a spoilsport.
I think it's also worth reflecting on the fact that this is 'Cadet' Dredd. So it's his early days and he is learning. The idea that the challenge is the training system he is being put through, the fact that he and Rico are clones and that there were issues with the other cadets (IIRC from one of the earlier Dredd strips that reflected on his experiences ...) could perhaps do with being drawn out more.
Perhaps by shifting the focus to Dredd's experiences as a student is something worth exploring? Thinking about it from the point of view of the target audience, there may well be more scope for stories that resonate better.
At the moment the focus in the stories is on how 'perfect' Dredd is at times when we know that is far from the case. Given that he has had doubts in the past and even given up the badge, perhaps experiences that show him grappling with what at this time (in the narrative, taking Origins as the basis for the conclusion) is a very formative Justice Dept.
If you think adult Dredd isn't a dick, read the early Democracy stories, or any of the Daily Dredds.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 26 August, 2021, 04:19:56 PM
Having him punch down has hardly ever been part of the core character - with notable exceptions being complex stories like Democracy (which occur within a carefully constructed context).
Quote from: Richard on 26 August, 2021, 10:39:09 PM
If you think adult Dredd isn't a dick, read the early Democracy stories, or any of the Daily Dredds.
Clearly something we're both aware of.
B/W Cover:
(https://2000ad.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/04-800x1024.jpg)
Probably as well they got rid of the tongue. It looks like... no, never mind.
Even as a self-confessed curmudgeon who hasn't been getting much joy from the Regened issues I have to say this one finally nailed five out of five well-written and entertaining stories, at least on their own terms.
The clear stand-out was 'Splorers, shot through with the same magic that pervaded Survival Geeks and performing an effortless balancing act satisfying the tastes of squaxx young and old. Mayflies continued its impressive start though yes, we could have done with a character recap - even just some captions on the panel of the squad in the cockpit on the first page would have helped (and yeah, how crazy was it that the trafficking vehicle on the last page was actually a lorry, like something from Ace Trucking?)
'Trash Culture' was perhaps less Future 'Shock' then Future 'Gentle Surprise' but to be honest, its simplicity was a tonic after recent convoluted Terror Tales.
As for the recruits on attachment from the regular prog... The was a lot to like about Chopper - the fourth wall breaking made it read like a Kenny Niemand strip at times, and the W. Shakespeare angle was inspired - but the tone of the whole thing was just way too light, with the characters beaming throughout and the token bad guy letting out a token "Lawks! That's me done for! Jolly good luck, chum!" as he tumbled towards the tarmac. Top marks for the garbage droid going completely 'Boris' though.
And Cadet Dredd? Agreed, it tried to have its munce and eat it - either the guy's a dick or a hero with a heart, don't try and hedge your bets. Or perhaps start him out with a conscience and show how the Academy chips away at it, leaving him the stone-faced authoritarian we know so well. Just don't throw both those sides at us in the same page.
These things must be successful I guess. But 2000Ad should just bite the bullet & create a separate comic rather than disrupt the regular prog again
Quote from: judgeurko on 27 August, 2021, 03:16:13 PM
These things must be successful I guess. But 2000Ad should just bite the bullet & create a separate comic rather than disrupt the regular prog again
We all completely agree and so does Tharg, who's now going to do just that. :o
I'm sure Jim will pop along shortly to once again patiently explain why it's not just a simple matter of 2000ad deciding to do a new comic. You have to bring your distributors/retailers along with you which is neither easy nor cheap.
Quote from: pauljholden on 27 August, 2021, 07:19:31 PM
I'm sure Jim will pop along shortly to once again patiently explain why it's not just a simple matter of 2000ad deciding to do a new comic. You have to bring your distributors/retailers along with you which is neither easy nor cheap.
Jim?
He means Captain James T. Kirk, also known as Jim to his friends.
Quote from: judgeurko on 27 August, 2021, 03:16:13 PM
These things must be successful I guess. But 2000Ad should just bite the bullet & create a separate comic rather than disrupt the regular prog again
Seriously. Do all you folks have me on ignore, or are you actually just trying to wind me up...?
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 27 August, 2021, 10:03:33 PM
Quote from: judgeurko on 27 August, 2021, 03:16:13 PM
These things must be successful I guess. But 2000Ad should just bite the bullet & create a separate comic rather than disrupt the regular prog again
Seriously. Do all you folks have me on ignore, or are you actually just trying to wind me up...?
I don't come here very often so don't know people here
Quote from: judgeurko on 30 August, 2021, 08:21:56 AM
I don't come here very often so don't know people here
My apologies. Sometimes it feels like I have to post the same thing, replying to pretty much the same people
every time a Regened issue comes out.
Apologies also for the cut and paste from earlier in this very thread, but the quoted text contains a link to one of those explanatory posts plus, as noted, some useful additional comments.
QuoteI'm not sure if this meant to be humorous, or if you're really expecting me to paste in the same explanation of the costs/risks of launching a new title into the high street, and the additional massive problems the pandemic has added in on top again...?
(For what it's worth, there's as good a version as any of my multiple posts on this subject here (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=47376.msg1057248#msg1057248) with useful additional commentary from IP in the posts that follow on the same page.)
I'll also add a final thought from my recent repetition of all that on the 2000AD FB groups: Personally, I'm happy to pay for four progs a year that aren't targetted at me, if it improves the financial health of the product as a whole and makes it more likely that we'll continue to get the other 40-odd progs for the rest of the year.
It's a fair point Jim. At least we've reached a point where the focus of the discussion is more on the merits of the material than endless debates about whether or not it should be a semi-regular prog.
For me the beauty of the approach is that we get to see artists and writers trying out different ideas that might not get an airing otherwise. There are going to be misses as well as hits, especially as the added challenge of trying to find material to grow an audience in a challenging demographic is factored in.
Perhaps what we need to do is pin a thread to the top of the prog review thread that contains some of the key comments from the various debates and a ... "read this before commenting on whether 2000ad: Regened should be a stand alone"?
At the end of the day I think it's fair to say it is something we would all love to see happen but for the time being this is a happy medium.
I also see the regen as a point to experiment and trying something completely different. Some will work and other not - we might end up with a new jewel.
Quote from: Tjm86 on 30 August, 2021, 09:29:32 AM
Perhaps what we need to do is pin a thread to the top of the prog review thread that contains some of the key comments from the various debates and a ... "read this before commenting on whether 2000ad: Regened should be a stand alone"?
I'd hesitate to give anything I say that kind of weight, TBH — it's not like I have any inside info on this, and I certainly don't know what Rebellion's actual thoughts are with respect to Regened. I'm just trying to make logical inferences based on having worked in comics (with a fairly heavy emphasis on all-ages/YA titles, thanks to my work with BOOM) for over a decade, and magazine/newspaper production for a lot of years before that.
(And I once contemplated launching a high-street-distributed monthly comic, which got as far as a fully-costed business plan... which is how I know the kind of hoops you have to jump through to get a product on the shelves. Although that was —Christ— twenty years ago, I guarantee that the undertaking hasn't got any
cheaper in the intervening years. I could have actually done it, but the only way I could have raised the money would have involved sacrificing more of a stake in the proposed company than I was prepared to give up.)
It's not so much giving privilege to your perspective Jim although you clearly have a greater understanding than quite a few of us in these parts. It's more that we've, as you said, done the debate to death.
That is not to say that we are not going to get the occasional newcomer inadvertently stepping in. Given the rather off-the-wall humour (remember the old iPod / cheese thread?) that quite a few folks round here tend to exhibit it is a little difficult to tell when people are having a giraffe, being a wind-up merchant or genuinely unclear.
On the plus side the discussion this time round has shown an acceptance, even a more supportive voice for the efforts than with previous editions. Personally I just think it would save a lot of time and effort every couple of months rehashing an old, and generally futile, debate.
Quote from: Tjm86 on 30 August, 2021, 10:55:53 AM
Personally I just think it would save a lot of time and effort every couple of months rehashing an old, and generally futile, debate.
I had thought about typing up a redux version of my various posts on the subject and just saving it as online google doc so I could link to it whenever this comes up. I may well do that, and just post a link whenever have a Regened review thread!
An interesting article related to regen:
https://downthetubes.net/?p=130245 (https://downthetubes.net/?p=130245)
Quote from: broodblik on 31 August, 2021, 11:09:10 AM
An interesting article related to regen:
Thanks for that — I'm managed to miss it. That's very interesting, particularly with reference to my previous thoughts about using 'Regened' as a sub-brand to help differentiate the all-ages fare from the decidedly-
not-all ages material in the regular Prog and Meg.
The use of all-age and YA imprints within their publishing line-up has certainly been a core part of BOOM's push into these markets, so hopefully it'll serve Rebellion well, too.
Mini-IP now only gets one title that has a covermount with plastic—and that's Lego Explorers. I'm OK with that, because Lego—it's something she will keep and play with for ages. And even if she decides she no longer wants Lego, all those pieces will go to some other kid, who'll be able to play with them for years.
But for almost everything else, just no. There are so few publications that can justify covermounts and the sheer waste they spew out on a monthly (or more frequent) basis.
My Top 3 for Prog 2246 Regened
1st - 'Splorers - Top thrill for me by some margin. Art was spot on, story was fun with 'in' jokes for us oldies. Perfect all ages material. I preferred 'Splorers to Survival Geeks actually.
2nd - Mayflies - Gritty future war adjacent story with Coleby and Teague reminding me I should buy the Jaegir trade. Nod to Ace Trucking at the end :)
3rd - Chopper - Was a fun story touching on Chopper's origins etc. Chopper is great for Regened IMO
Also will add that Finder and Keeper is still one of my Regened faves so more Finder and Keeper pls Tharg