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Author Topic: Prog 2265: Worlds at War  (Read 1991 times)

Barrington Boots

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Re: Prog 2265: Worlds at War
« Reply #15 on: 19 January, 2022, 02:54:10 PM »
Just read three progs back to back and I am enjoying the start to this year.

Dredd This story is excellent. I like Dredd as the antagonist here and a threat rather than a chump.  Patrick Goddard draw's an incredible city and in a story that's moving at breakneck speed the action feels very kinetic. Superb stuff and whilst I feel Mona will survive there's a chance it will all end badly for her, looking forward to how this turns out.

Proteus Vex There is a lot happening here. The world building feels very intense and I don't really know where the story is going but that's not an issue. Vex and Ko are not as engaging as Vex and Midnight but that's kind of the point and having her back (assuming that's where we'll end up) will be a good thing. All the alien designs in this are awesome.

The Order Not much to add beyond what I wrote upthread. This episode started to feel more like the story coming together for me but sludgy Gideon is horrible.

Kingmaker Big fan of Kingmaker. I feel like this time the story has gone in an unexpected direction with Ablard and Ichnar ending up where they are now and again I'm not really sure where it's going next, other than that it is all kicking off. Visually stunning from Leigh Gallagher although I found the glowing armour effects in the previous episode made it tricky for me to follow everything.

Finally I'm glad to see Saphir back for a longer run. Looks incredible. I like the concept of the dream baby - the bad guy popping up at the end did seem a bit suddenly jammed on, but the last run seemed very compressed so we'll see where this leads.

You're a dark horse, Boots.

The Corinthian

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Re: Prog 2265: Worlds at War
« Reply #16 on: 19 January, 2022, 10:21:33 PM »
I'm going to defend sludgy Gideon on the grounds that it's bringing him obviously closer to the golem of Jewish folklore.

I don't tend to have much time for the "The Order is too confusing" crowd but it can be a bit exasperating having different sets of disparate characters chasing around in different locations and often dropping out of sight for weeks on end. Inquisitor Brown showing up this week reminds me that the last time we saw him or even heard him mentioned was as a surprise cliffhanger partway through the previous story... that hasn't been followed up until now.

norton canes

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Re: Prog 2265: Worlds at War
« Reply #17 on: 20 January, 2022, 03:10:43 PM »
The good news is I'm over my inexplicable thrill-slump of last week. The even better news is that 'Working Girl' continues to ramp up the tension and excitement to almost unbearable levels. This is genuinely a top-tier Dredd that I'd include in any single volume featuring the lawman's very best stories. That panel with the Lawmasters dropping out of the Manta tank is absolutely epic - must've stared in awe at it for at least five minutes.

Have to say I'm on board with the consensus that some of the ongoing strips are rumbling on with no signs of conclusion. If I were Tharg I'd strongly consider imposing a blanket five or six chapter limit on every thrill. A possible exception might be Brink, as it looks like we're going to have chapters told from the perspective of other characters, addng variety and extending its shelf life. I feel that the Kek-W strips Deadworld and The Order particuarly are starting to get a bit directionless - the former has at least gained a new lease of life (or death) with the 'Visions' one-shot format, but the latter doesn't look like it's building to anything and the roster of characters with whom we're expected to be familiar grows longer (and our familiarity lessens with their absence). The first three chapters were some of my favourite thrills ever so it would be nice to regain a sense of momentum. I understand of course that constantly demanding new thrills from the script droids puts them under pressure but surely, it also allows them to fire up their square-one creative curcuits more frequently.

So while The Order withers a little this prog (and that full-length panel of the Gideon golem is awful, sorry), Proteus Vex and Kingmaker hit a sweet spot in their third chapters (they are their third chapters, yes?). PV remains a particular delight, Jake Lynch's slyly humourous art complementing Mike Caroll's baroque script. An intriguing return for Saphir - it looks like this is one strip geared up to deliver its thrills in serial format.

Excellent cover from the Roach Droid. Along with Cliff Robinson he's one of the prog's longer-standing artists whose work I didn't click with for ages, but who've now evolved seriously impressive styles.

IndigoPrime

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Re: Prog 2265: Worlds at War
« Reply #18 on: 20 January, 2022, 03:48:43 PM »
I think, for me, it comes down to whether strips work well when they hit breakpoints. Kingdom, for example, is one overarching narrative, but each chunk of it was really satisfying on its own. There have been a couple of natural end points, but Abnett then set off from those again. Proteus Vex looks like it might exist in a similar space.

With Brass Sun, I’d say the individual bits were satisfying, but the threaded narrative was strong to the point it’s deeply frustrating if we don’t get any more. The Order, though, has more of a tendency to meander.

I certainly wouldn’t want a Diggle-style upper limit on chapters. Stories need however long they need. We’ve seen plenty of strips compressed into an arbitrary length to their detriment. Also, inspiration strikes when it strikes and many writers are busy. Others might have little interest in revisiting a past strip but a great idea for a new one. But there does come a point where the number of things being seemingly abandoned starts to mount up.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Prog 2265: Worlds at War
« Reply #19 on: 20 January, 2022, 03:57:28 PM »
I certainly wouldn’t want a Diggle-style upper limit on chapters.

Contractually obliged correction: the "shot glass of rocket fuel" memo from Andy, and the ten-episode (?) limit on stories were two separate things. The episode cap was imposed due to a re-print deal in the offing with a European publisher who insisted on a very strict page count for re-packaging purposes. The deal never came off, and the episode cap was duly lifted.
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broodblik

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Re: Prog 2265: Worlds at War
« Reply #20 on: 20 January, 2022, 04:00:35 PM »
A strip for me can run forever basically but keeping that up will always be difficult part.  We have some strips that has been out of circulation for long time which I believe needs to be brought back asap: Brass Sun (clone Culbard Tharg if you have too), Deadworld (not Vision but the main arc) and even Jaegir (the cameo did not count). The Order is an interesting one in which it has such a big cast and keeping track of it can be very taxing and some people will stop reading it. I still enjoyed it but yes I also feel like my mind is being questioned.
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

The Monarch

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Re: Prog 2265: Worlds at War
« Reply #21 on: 20 January, 2022, 04:03:04 PM »
i love the order

that is all

Southstreeter

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Re: Prog 2265: Worlds at War
« Reply #22 on: 20 January, 2022, 06:11:36 PM »
I love The Order as well. I admit I was a bit confused a while ago, so I reread it in the Ultimate Collection (first 4 series) plus series 5 in the progs, and it pretty much makes sense. I liked this week’s episode as it brought back a few characters I thought we’d lost, and I’m happy to spend a couple of episodes with them before we go back to the folks on the ship. I think we need Ritterstahl back though!

sammorgan11@hotmail.com

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Re: Prog 2265: Worlds at War
« Reply #23 on: 21 January, 2022, 06:43:33 PM »
Check out my full spoilers review of prog 2265 here -
https://youtu.be/HfbyjdrcLeE

Colin YNWA

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Re: Prog 2265: Worlds at War
« Reply #24 on: 21 January, 2022, 06:58:46 PM »
Check out my full spoilers review of prog 2265 here -
https://youtu.be/HfbyjdrcLeE

Ohhhh its Comicbook Sam - welcome aboard. Been enjoying the Flusb (spelling???) for some time now. Though would ya read Proteus Vex already its GREAT! Lovely to see you here.

Swerty

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Re: Prog 2265: Worlds at War
« Reply #25 on: 23 January, 2022, 11:18:02 PM »
I like the new feature on the back page detailing each year from 1977 to presumably this year come December.1979 was in my opinion probably the best run of Progs

broodblik

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Re: Prog 2265: Worlds at War
« Reply #26 on: 24 January, 2022, 10:13:41 AM »
Here is a good interview with Kek-W and David Roach on the return of Saphir:

https://2000ad.com/news/interview-kek-w-david-roach-on-saphir-liaisons-dangereuses/
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

Leigh S

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Re: Prog 2265: Worlds at War
« Reply #27 on: 24 January, 2022, 07:10:30 PM »
The Order I cannot comment on as it lost me some time back

I've tried to avoid the same fate for Proteus Vex and attempted to read it closely, including a reread of the first story.  Despite that and the general landscape of it being something that should catch me in a Nemesis/Shakara way, it just slips off my brain. 

I'm not a Ken-Rennie conspiracy nut, but recent Niemand tales have had a bit of a tang of Gordon's and I'm not talking the gin.  Perhaps its' just Niemand reacting to comments that his Dredds were getting too upbeat and his Dredd to "nice", but I don't really recognise a Dredd who would say "Counts as a win" when that surfer unexpectedly exploded.  It's also continuing a trend of more verbose story telling, which I felt Niemand did well to avoid in his early strips.

The inclusion of the one page tear reviews is welcome, but I' not sure it puts the Prog as currently formed in the greatest of lights.  I get all the "The Memory Cheats" stuff about nothing being as good as when you were a kid, but I wasn't a kid reading 2000Ad for those first 3 years, and while I would agree the prog is generally of a "higher" standard than most of the content before Tharg really hits his stride circa prog 178, theres a lot to be said for erratically swingy  inconsistency over competent consistency.

we have the definition of "competent" stories currently for - Kingmaker, Vex, The Order, I don't hate any of them - if I could pay attention long enough or remember previous series well enough, I might be able to appreciate them more...

But I really do feel that the comic needs a shake up - I have no clue what are the 21st Century Yearly reviews are going to include, as the comic feels like it has lost that sense of clearly defined "Eras", with each year washing over the last with little by way of "change". 

Maybe that's how you keep the comic going, probably is - we certainly don't need another "memorable" attempt to mix it up ala the Summer Offensive.  Unlike many, I think the main prog needs more of the Regened energy rather than less - not the same style, obviously, but at least a sense of kicking up some dust.

Funt Solo

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Re: Prog 2265: Worlds at War
« Reply #28 on: 24 January, 2022, 07:22:03 PM »
...the comic feels like it has lost that sense of clearly defined "Eras", with each year washing over the last with little by way of "change". 

Interesting. We could list out some golden age strips: Strontium Dog, Nemesis, Rogue Trooper, Slaine & Dredd. Those five are so definitive that they sometimes appear on the cover even when they're no longer in the prog.

There was a time when Sin Dex and Dante were in the top (or ubiquitous) slots.

So, now: what does define the prog, aside from Dredd? The talking point is often Regened.

Makes me want to restart my stages project, which has been on a sabbatical since I got to 1995 and, like many before me, felt like a break.
++ map ++ thrills ++ coma ++

Leigh S

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Re: Prog 2265: Worlds at War
« Reply #29 on: 24 January, 2022, 07:34:34 PM »
Yeah, it may be the double "mostly" loss of Wagner and Mills, but the prog feels even more Era-less over the last year- at best, I bet the things you could mostly define the 21st C into are big Dredd events such as Day of Chaos, or Slaine Eras.

It isn't like there aren't good stories - Abnett gives us Brink and the Out - the Devlin Waugh over in the Meg is as good as any Devlin Waugh - Neimand, despite my grumblings above, does "good" Dredd.

Not to sound all Pat about it, but you can't help think he has a point that work for hire is never going to encourage a flood of great new stories - Abnett seems the exception, possibly he is so prolific he just has to
get stories out whatever the terms and conditions!  Neimand and Kot's output are using existing IP.

Spurrier, Ewing, Morrison R... the early 2000s seemed to have a lot more potential, even if it didn't fulfill its promise for whatever reason, and you still had some Wagner and Mills to scaffold any experimentation.

I suppose all it would take would be a single writer with a load of great ideas outside of existing IP, willing to give those to Rebellion....   

 


...the comic feels like it has lost that sense of clearly defined "Eras", with each year washing over the last with little by way of "change". 

Interesting. We could list out some golden age strips: Strontium Dog, Nemesis, Rogue Trooper, Slaine & Dredd. Those five are so definitive that they sometimes appear on the cover even when they're no longer in the prog.

There was a time when Sin Dex and Dante were in the top (or ubiquitous) slots.

So, now: what does define the prog, aside from Dredd? The talking point is often Regened.

Makes me want to restart my stages project, which has been on a sabbatical since I got to 1995 and, like many before me, felt like a break.