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Spoilers => Prog => : Thread Zero 31 May, 2002, 02:10:44 AM

: I just saw Star Wars 2!!!
: Thread Zero 31 May, 2002, 02:10:44 AM
Yeah, just seen it.

Well it is not bad at all!

The effects are amazing. The battle at the end between the clone armies is well, words can't describe it! Astonishing detail. Imagine your favourite war movie action sequence, set in the future. Thousands of clones killing each other. Worth seeing the film for that battle. Well done ILM! They deserve an Oscar.

The film is much darker then Phantom. I think someone told George to make it a little more mature and he listened! Hayden whats his name is good as Anakin. The acting and dialogue isn't that bad. The romance is not that bad either. Hayden does show Anakin's torment. As I say, a much darker tone is most welcome. Obi Wan is also the star of the film. Loads of action from him . That fight with Jango Fett on the rainy platform is very good. Who would have thought Bobba Fett's dad was Australian.:)

Not to sure about Anakin's father suddenly reappearing. Where was he in the first film? And why did George go for that silly virign birth plot device in ep 1? No mention of mitochloridians thingys and hardly any Jar Jar though! Hooray!

What else?

Hmm well the first action sequence is a bit like the first action sequence from my Dredd Reckoning. Ho hum.

The plot?

Well not that important really? The usual battles and battle for the force/senate stuff.

Of course deep down Lucas can't write a coherent plot to save his life! Why you ask?


Well at the end of both episodes, Darth Sidious has lost and yet he still seems victorious.
In Ep 1 he failed to get Queen Amidala to sign that treaty thingy and his army were forced off Naboo but he was smiling at the end, and in episode 2 his clone army are defeated and yet he says all is going to plan!


Geroge your plots don't make any sense. All this Count Dukoo really working for Darth Sidious twist lark. Don't make any sense. If Dukoo was working for Sidious all along, why are they pleased that their clone army was destroyed in the final scene but everything is going to plan?

Complete nonsense. Drivel.

Anyway I think it's the best Star Wars episode so far. Great fun, not bad acting, amazing visuals, and old muppet man Yoda does the light saber dance too! Funny that!

The blue screen effect still doesn't work. We all know the actors are not in front of the cgi backdrops and motion capture characters. Something to do with ILM not getting the focus and lighting right I guess.

Oh yeah one last thing...did you know that George Lucas is more or less making the same film over and over again.

Clever is George. None of the audience have sussed it out. But I have George....:)

I rate it the best Star Wars episode thus far. Meaningless plot but great fun. However take way ILM's magic and it may not be quite as good.

8.5 out of 10.

: Re: I just saw Star Wars 2!!!...
: Thread Zero 31 May, 2002, 02:22:41 AM
By the way.....

If you haven't seen it yet and you always wondered what The Apocalypse War invasion would be like...go see it and wait for the final clone battle.

It really is something to behold.

scojo now bored with star wars for 3 more years!
: Re: I just saw Star Wars 2!!!...
: Something Fishy 31 May, 2002, 03:17:40 AM

Where does Anakin meet his Dad?  He meets his Mums new Husband , his Step-dad.  Not the same thing, no blood ties and doesn't ruin the "virgin birth" thing.

I think there are lots of plots and sub-plots.  Of course Sidous wins.  In the first he gets to become Chancellor (his pawns losing the battle was part of the plan surely).  In the second he draws the Jedi into a war and gets them to us HIS clone army.  They don't even get that he is forming the empire.  Big win as far as i can see.
: Re: I just saw Star Wars 2!!!......
: Thread Zero 31 May, 2002, 03:57:54 AM
Fair point I guess about his Dad. I didn't know he was his step dad!

Hmmm I think the new SW storylines are completely illogical.

The whole point of episode 1 was Amidala signing the trade treaty and thus make Palpatine (forgive the spelling) more powerful. Yet he failed. So what did he gain at the end of episode 1?
One minute he is helping the Queen by removing Terance Stamp (see senate scene) thus increasing his powerbase ,yet at the end of the movie HE FAILED IN HIS PLANS. Naboo didn't sign the treaty nor side with the trade fed. It was a meaningless plot. So what did he achieve apart from destroying laods of robots and keeping queen Ami on the throne. Darth Sid/Pal wanted her dead anyway!

I can't see he gained anything. Please explain Treb. It didn't make any sense at all.

Same can be said for episode 2. Okay Palpatine wants the senate to splinter and then he takes over. So why does Dukoo pretend to be in league with the confederates? All Dukoo does, is lead the rebellion to his lair and they wipe out most if not all of his robot army. So again, what has Darth Sidious achieved? I assume this robot army would be used in the future against the senate. So what has Darth Sidious achieved by allowing it to get destroyed? Please explain.

Lucas just realises at the end he needs to tie the movies in with episode 4, so introduces the death star plan gimmick.

I think his plotting is very very poor indeed. Good visuals though.



: Re: I just saw Star Wars 2!!!........
: Something Fishy 31 May, 2002, 04:09:47 AM
But i think his control of the senate at the end of part one is a win in itself.  So what if she did not die, he was still voted in and she thinks hi is a friend.

The trade fed are being used as pawns from what i can see.  It is the Clones that will be the army for Palpatine and he has been given them by the Jedi of all people!!

: Re: I just saw Star Wars 2!!!........
: Thread Zero 31 May, 2002, 04:18:53 AM
I still think it's awful writing on Lucas' part to have Palpatine helping and wanting Amidala captured at the same time!

I always felt that about ep 1. It seemed so obvious too.

As for ep  2, I gave up understand it. One minute the clone robots seemed as if they were made to attack the senate, on the orders of some corrupt senator guy who we never saw, then at the end they are used to attack the robot army instead!

I didn't get that at all. Weren't the Jango Fett clones originally meant to be used by Darth Sidious against the senate?

I dunno it's all beyond my comprehension....

scojo confused

: Re: I just saw Star Wars 2!!!........
: Thread Zero 31 May, 2002, 04:25:00 AM
I dunno it's all beyond my comprehension....

Bit like my recent inarticulate posts!

: Re: I just saw Star Wars 2!!!........
: Thread Zero 31 May, 2002, 04:45:55 AM
You know what bugs me about films?

And writers in general?

They try to be too clever. Take Star Wars 1 and 2. I still don't get the plots. Why all this senate duplicity, clones this, twist that. The original trilogy never relied on all this senate stuff. No it was clear good versus evil. Darth against Luke. Now we get stupid twists at the end and clones changing sides.

I mean take Sin City. No disrespect John, but this "Finding Yankee" scene. Eh? Talk about vague and confusing.

I dunno. One thing about my scripts - they make sense.

Trust me folks, keep it simple.  

Oh well rant is over.

Back to the shrink for me.

: Re: I just saw Star Wars 2!!!...
: malkymac 31 May, 2002, 05:47:57 AM
It seemed quite simple to my 10 year old son:-Palpatine engineers a crisis in the republic to justify having an army at his disposal. Defeating the confederates in the process strengthens his hand in the process. A seemingly good senator suddnely has a masive army of stormtroopers and no jedi opposition.

As I said my son explained this and it seems to make sense to me. Where is the complexity?
: Re: I just saw Star Wars 2!!!......
: Thread Zero 31 May, 2002, 06:36:01 AM
I still think episode 1 is fundamentally flawed.  The whole Palpatine wants to save and kill queen storyline was ludicrous. Insultingly so.

Re  EP 2

What you say may be true but...

I thought the clone jango fett army was originally to be used against the senate. This is true cos Obi Wan warns the jedi council of this. Just before he fights Jango.

Then later own, oh look the senate now have the clones on their side! Eh? That don't make no sense to me!

It was meant to be used by Darth Sidious against the senate but the plan went wrong. (Or was it against the confederate?)God knows!

So then we get the confederate led by Dukoo, with their own robot army. They are against the senate - only to find that this robot army is in fact fighting against the very clones which Sidious wanted to use against the senate in the first place!


And then to cap it all off, we find that Duckoo was in league with Sidious all along!

Frankly the storyline has more holes in it than a golf course.


that but wasn't this clone army origianally built to destroy the senate?

How come the senate then use the droids against the confederates?

I am sure it was this ten years ago order  melarky.

: Re: I just saw Star Wars 2!!!........
: Thread Zero 31 May, 2002, 06:41:35 AM
Excuse those last three lines from my last post. Don't know where they came from!


: Re: I just saw Star Wars 2!!!........
: Oddboy 31 May, 2002, 03:28:53 PM
Scojo - Did you actually watch the film?  Or were you just looking at the pretty pictures?

Darth Sidius IS Senator/Chancellor/Emperor Palpatine.

He's being two-faced at the moment in order to rise in *official* power using his "evil" side as an adversary.  There is no legitimate conflict in the (Star Wars) galaxy - he has orchestrated the whole thing to trick the government into giving him power (similar to what Hitler did but much more devious).
Every time the Jedi defeat Darth Sidious, they do so by giving Palpatine more official power.

The first 3 episodes are about the rise of the dark side and the fall of the jedi.
In case you missed that bit.

Also, Luke & Leia are siblings, both the offspring of Darth Vader (AKA Anakin Skywalker).
In case you missed that bit.

: Re: I just saw Star Wars 2!!!........
: Tex Hex 31 May, 2002, 05:48:01 PM
It seemed to me that Dooku's clone army was never meant to fight the republic but was deliberately ordered ten years previously for the republic to seize control of.
Hey presto, the army is conveniently ready for the plotting of the confedirates and the army of the trade federation/guildy types (and bank accounts) are crushed.  Ditto with the Jedi's.
I assume palpatine now turns the attention of his clones to the remaining jedi.
Ramble, ramble, ramble. I do agree that we have to be enlightened about the goings on in episode 1.

Im still not sure about palpatine and sidious though. Its too obvious. They must be clones.
: Re: I just saw Star Wars 2!!!........
: Thread Zero 31 May, 2002, 06:23:48 PM
You see Hex, I really think Mr Lucas is making these new episodes up as he goes along.

I think the original trilogy worked because they were simple stories. Good versus evil. The empire v the rebels. Yet after ROTJ, something happened to George. He started to think he was some great storyteller and he er..isn't.

All this Sidious/Palpatine stuff is unnecessary, but more importantly, it is confusing storytelling. I personally think they are one and the same person but their goals seem contradictory. One minute Sid is wanting to desroy Naboo then he is helping Amidala. One minute the clone army (i think) is built to destroy the senate, then it isn't.

I just find this screenwriting style messy. I also think there are going to be major continuity problems at the end of episode 3.

I never believed Star Wars A New Hope was part of some huge saga. Foe example, the senate will have to be destroyed in ep 3 cos there are no senate scenes in episodes 4,5 and 6.

Plus George Lucas has admitted the droids memory will have to be erased in ep 3 cos they don't recognise Luke's family in ep 4! Somewhat clumsy if you ask me.It kind of proves he is making it up as he goes along!

Anyway I guess the only way to judge the films is to wait until Star War3: The Clones Wars comes out, then watch all the films in order.


: Re: I just saw Star Wars 2!!!........
: Oddboy 31 May, 2002, 06:52:18 PM
Vader & Tarkin (sp? Peter Cushing anyway) talk about the official closing of the imperial senate in A New Hope IIRC.
: Re: I just saw Star Wars 2!!!........
: JTurner 31 May, 2002, 07:04:46 PM
The idea was that Dooku created a droid army to give Sidious the excuse to build his legions of stormtrooper clones. Dooku and Sidious were playing everyone else for their own gains. The droid army was the phantom menace that gave rise to the clone army and imperial rule.
: Re: I just saw Star Wars 2!!!........
: Tiplodocus 31 May, 2002, 07:11:47 PM
There's such a massive amount of irony floating around on some of the posts in this thread that it fair takes your breath away.

I would be most amused if George Lucas posted a response explaining how we missed the point...