The Political Thread

[JayzusB.Christ]

Fair point, lads. But it's a huge step forward from the last government (I spit on its grave) and its long-standing tradition of arse-licking and turning a blind eye.

I agree with everything you say, TB, but at least this government (imperfect as it is) has finally seen the RCC for what it is - a megalomaniacal, meddling dictatorship, which despite its many good members is rotten to the core.

And yep, you're right there too, Joe.  Most other superiors who actively conspire to cover up serious crimes within their organisations are treated as criminals too. Bishops on the other hand are given the option of retiring. Throw the fuckers in jail where they can't do any more harm, is the obvious solution.

[The Legendary Shark]

Speaking of the RCC, isn't it strange that three independent states cause so much trouble in the world? Vatican City, the City of London and Washington DC. One there for the Coincidence Theorists!

[JOE SOAP]

Apart from suggesting the idea of a 'conspiracy of city-states' -a rather vague notion- them being city-sates doesn't really mean they are separate or any way more special/different/powerful than untouchable trans-national bodies involved in corruption.

Besides, condemning/criticising the RCC in Ireland is only half the story, it's equally the fault of multiple government's in the Republic since the inception of the state and only have themselves to blame. The bigger enemy in 20th century Ireland was the church in-truck with successive governments. While they abused innocents, dumb militants on all sides preferred to blow them up, the real enemies of the people were always closer and we need to cut the ties forever.

[The Legendary Shark]

...the church in-truck with successive governments. While they abused innocents, dumb militants on all sides preferred to blow them up, the real enemies of the people were always closer and we need to cut the ties forever.

The same could be said of the banks (CoL) and the military industrial complex (WDC), from a certain point of view. Bwa ha ha haa.

[JOE SOAP]

...the church in-truck with successive governments. While they abused innocents, dumb militants on all sides preferred to blow them up, the real enemies of the people were always closer and we need to cut the ties forever.

The same could be said of the banks (CoL) and the military industrial complex (WDC), from a certain point of view. Bwa ha ha haa.

but that could be said of any large business/structure so it's nothing special, corruption/collusion happens in all bureaucracies. Just cos they're old/mystical/ideological/mythical don't mean they're any worse/better.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Got to hand it to Enda Kenny (our head man in Ireland) - his anti-Vatican speech yesterday was absolutely outstanding, highlighting just how much we've let snivelling little lick-arses of politicians allow bishops to walk all over us in the past.  I've never voted for him, but I have a lot more respect for him now and truly believe his speech will be in the history books. i just hope he delivers on it.

[JOE SOAP]

...like when he said he wouldn't close the A & E at Roscommon hospital...? We'll see if it bears any fruit... They're just juggling their promises to suit the moment when all else is in disarray, and the Vatican is an easy target to fire words at, why aren't they so forthright with bankers and frauds?

"LET THE WORDS OF POLITICIANS BE ACCOMPANIED BY GOOD WORKS" not more hyperbole.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Fair point. But to be fair to kenny, he was saying it while helping to pass the law that stops priests keeping confessional secrets relating to child abuse, so whatever else happens, you can't really say he's done nothing at all. 

As for bankers, yes, he ought to condemn them as well, but that's a seperate issue. I'm only talking about the influence of the Catholic Church here, not the economic crisis.  Enda Kenny may not have said what he said if he didn't think he had the people's support, but I'm just glad to finally live in a country where he knows he does.

[JOE SOAP]

As for bankers, yes, he ought to condemn them as well, but that's a seperate issue. I'm only talking about the influence of the Catholic Church here, not the economic crisis.

Ah, but there lies the rub, is it right for government to have separate moralities for different issues? The tactic of separation is how they justify the sociopathic nature of their institution, the subtext of which which indicates government doesn't really mean it in the way it's portrayed. Mixed messages of where the government 'really' stands is not good, never has been in our history. Joined up critical thinking should be used when judging governments. Chase the little bishops in funny hats but not the bankers in bowlers, we're not closing hospitals when we say they're not open?

Will the 'real' Fine Gael please stand up?

Enda Kenny may not have said what he said if he didn't think he had the people's support, but I'm just glad to finally live in a country where he knows he does.

Ok but people shouldn't vote for him just because of that, it's a no-brainer really and he shouldn't be using it as a pretext to bash the last incompetent government when his own incompetent party did fuck all as a weak opposition at the time.

[maryanddavid]

Hardly comparable, Bankers and child abusers?
Im a catholic, I attend the same Church as Kenny,  I was extremely impressed by Kenny for his speech. Forget the subtext, was it made to cover the Roscommon mess, it does'nt matter. So long as a government is seen to be doing something, its doing something.
I remember that little #### Daly on the telly years ago, and Fr. Darcy having a go at him from the audience (the Late Late, I think), snidy remarks in reply. For all the kids that the church in Ireland have absolutly and utterly destroyed, this might be a little chink of light.

David

[JOE SOAP]

Hardly comparable, Bankers and child abusers?

...but I never said they were comparable, it's the government idea of social morality that's the issue and that should apply to any decision they make not when it is poltically convenient for them to do it or after the fact the horse has bolted. The government's moral attitude is different on each issue because they are a weak government. The message it sends is it's ok to let criminals with money get away with fraud and embezzlement, for future generations to live in poverty and for hospitals to be closed. This is one of the main problems with how we judge government in our country and the reason why we get the governments we deserve.

[TordelBack]

All true Joe, particularly the failure of FG in opposition, but taking everything one little positive at a time, it's quite nice to have a Taoiseach that even appears to be putting the boot in on this issue at least.  Particularly coming from the party that gave us Eoin O'Duffy and St. Patrick's Blueshirts, and particularly in preference to some soggy potato muttering despondently into his pint. I thought Kenny was a charisma void, and I'm happy to say I was wrong - having an elected leader who doesn't embarrass every time he appears is a refreshing change.

Yes, it's a splintered kind of morality on show, but I'm still going to chalk this one up on the rather empty-looking 'plus' side.  Still won't be voting for FG if I can help it, but hey.

Now if they'd just hurry up and default and put us out of our misery...

[JOE SOAP]

I'm just hoping they stay true to their word and that if/when they don't follow up, people will be as fervent in their criticism as in their praise.

[TordelBack]

I'm just hoping they stay true to their word and that if/when they don't follow up, people will be as fervent in their criticism as in their praise.

Amen, my son.

[JOE SOAP]

Credo