2000 AD Online Forum

Spacewarp (https://www.millsverse.com/spacewarp/)

Opening paragraph of the blog post...

DO NOT ADJUST YOUR REALITY...
SPACE WARP IS COMING!

If you've ever wondered what it was like to create a comic like 2000 AD, now is your chance to find out. To experience the highs, the lows, the creative jamming with artists, the excitement of breakthroughs and the disappointments when things go wrong. Then the satisfaction of solving those problems, getting the art right, the stories right, the thrill of seeing amazing new artwork, and the knowledge that we are facilitating great new talent who, otherwise, might be stuck in some boring job. And finally, the thrill of viewing the finished awesome comic.

So pull up a ringside seat, because that's what I'm intending to do with SPACE WARP.

Sounds interesting (and it should as it is pretty much FutureQuake he's describing) and with Pat at the helm this is bound to be a solid read.

I'm in!

Thought it was going to be the next in the Read 'Em and Weep or Be Pure... series until I followed the link.

Looks interesting, will have to compare and contrast with the all-ages FCBD offering last year.

Looks very interesting, and I'm interested in getting this.

Curious about this though: "Introduced by alien robot editor Schlock" . Pat Mills has said that he came to disagree with 2000AD having a fictional Editor in Tharg, so I wonder why he decided to do this. Then again, part of the reason for this project is to test if a similar comic to the original 2000AD would work, again, so maybe that's why, I.e have all components present and see how they work in the current world.

Also Schlock also seems to be the name of an alien freedom fighter fighting against a human empire* in one of the strips (as it's a work I'm progress, maybe that will change) and while I think Future Shock type tales are always a good idea in an anthology,  calling them Future Schlocks....? Really?

Overall a good idea, and interesting that they're presenting the background and production stuff publicly.

Despite the description of certain tales being a bit too similar to stuff that's been in the Prog, there is variety, and they may do different things with the stuff that seems similar. One bloke vs dinosaurs does seem different to a whole bunch of cowboys, for example.

Anyway, we'll see.

*Sound familiar?

Why male-oriented? :/

I'm not really a fan of segregating comics by the sexes either. Girls like sci-fi and they certainly like horror. And girls comics of the past have shown that their stories go down well with a male audience too . Some of them. Those of a less mushy romance bent😉

Girls' comics show they're  certainly partial to their horror and they had their share of dystopian sci-fi too.

Again, I think maybe Pat Mills wants to mirror 200ad again for a modern audience.

This kinda feels like Pat wants to have his cake and eat it.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 06 April, 2019, 05:08:25 PM
Why male-oriented? :/

It's all a bit 1977. 

To be honest, I was sceptical about the quality of artist Mills would be able to attract for this project. If Gareth Sleightholme (https://www.artstation.com/hesir) isn't soon following the path Dan Cornwell trod, from founding father's self-published project to Galaxy's Greatest, it'll be because a US publisher got to him first.

All images © Gareth Sleightholme 2019, from The Executioners, the fictional analogue of Judge Dredd in Mills's 2000ad parody comic, Space Warp:

(https://i.imgur.com/Qr0CwhA.png?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/OWwcTYY.png?2)


Mills has obviously read that the richest Youtube personality is an 8-year-old who does unboxing videos. You can watch him reacting like a kid with a new toy when he sees Sleightholme's art, here (https://youtu.be/yi5w5jKu9hw). Listening to Pat Mills at 0.25 speed, to screencap those images, was a big thrill for a fan of Chris Morris's Blue Ja-aa-aaa-mmmm (https://youtu.be/BUePblNU860).

It's lovely stuff, though I wonder if Pat is letting his understandable excitement get the better here  - great concepts for characters, but can he draw the world - the retro-futuristic city - can he pull off sequential strip art?  Now there's every chance he can, but if he struggles with some of the other aspects, Pat has kind of thrown his lot in here?  Maybe there are samples of that kind of stuff from the artist that arent of these characters, what do I know!

Not trying to be a downer here, but I'm glad I didnt start doing anything for this strip! I'm sure it will be fine!

Quote from: Leigh S on 11 May, 2019, 10:58:51 PM
... great concepts for characters, but can he draw the world - the retro-futuristic city - can he pull off sequential strip art?

There are some sequentials and cityscapes on the Artstation (https://www.artstation.com/hesir/albums/23857) account I linked to above, bud.

Aha, cheers Frank - my eyesight isnt what it was!  Some interesting stuff there - some of this stuff looks like Brendan McCarthy, some like Robin Smith, some like John Blanche - even with the page or two of sequential art  there I'm not sure I have a clear idea what a finished page might look like - all very good stuff though.

I suppose Pat might argue we wouldnt see this artist in 2000AD because he is drawing out people who would be put off by work for hire, though I also wonder if this is the project to prove that theory - I can't see there being a huge profit in this for anyone - seems more like a labour of love than a concerted assault on the status quo, but who knows, maybe it could prove both given enough of the former

I hope it is a success. The more options we have the better.

The art looks good, Frank.

This looks smashing, wil definitely look out for it.

Another pleasant surprise on the art front. Mike Donaldson's Futant work is like Karl Richardson trying to show someone how Simon Coleby's art looks.

Donaldson seems stronger on action than character, but I like everything about this page 100% more than I like the name Futant. That'd be the first thing I changed, but the whole point of Space Warp seems to be doing things the Pat Mills Way.


(https://i.imgur.com/Osd5VQl.png?1)

That artwork is amazing.

It's nice to see MikeD back in action. Think the last time I saw his work was back in Omnivistascope.

Surprised no-one here has mentioned that two more of the artists for Spacewarp are both forum members - Bruno Stahl and James Newell have both frequented this board for many years and I know James in particular has worked hard to get here. Congrats to them both.

<pimp>And of course they've both done work for me over at FQP - so remember folk - if you want to see who's going to be drawing the comics of tomorrow, check out FQP Today!</pimp>

Congratulations are most surely in order. Well done, guys!

Necro-post!

News from the mighty Down the Tubes (https://downthetubes.net/) regarding Spacewarp (https://downthetubes.net/?p=117785)

image nicked from DTT

The 11 year old in me is very exited by the looks of this.

(Though the DC Lawyer in me is probably eyeing up Hellbreaker and thinking ... hang on ...)

Very retro and very exciting!

QuoteSpacewarp is aimed at a mainstream audience, age group 14 – 40, with female and male heroes from a wide range of backgrounds and ethnicities without falling into the 'woke' trap.

That's... a really weird line. It'll be interesting if the publication has pivoted from the original stance, which was very much "a comic about men", being heavily influenced by "boys comics" from the 1970s. But quite what "the 'woke' trap" means, I have no idea.

That looks incredible, though " "woke" trap"?... sigh.... great Anti-Virtue Signalling there.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 01 May, 2020, 04:32:39 PMBut quite what "the 'woke' trap" means, I have no idea.

"We will still offend some people, but they are wrong."

I have to admit, though, I still like the look of it.

Regards,

Robin

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 01 May, 2020, 04:32:39 PM

QuoteSpacewarp is aimed at a mainstream audience, age group 14 – 40, with female and male heroes from a wide range of backgrounds and ethnicities without falling into the 'woke' trap.

That's... a really weird line.

Yes, why 40? I don't think my tastes suddenly changed when I hit 41 (or even now 5 years later). There was me kind of interested in this, but alas I'm a few years too old now.  :D

Mind you 14 is an odd starting age too.

Cover for the first issue and article:

http://www.comicon.com/2020/05/15/pat-mills-reveals-the-cover-to-his-new-sci-fi-anthology-spacewarp/ (http://www.comicon.com/2020/05/15/pat-mills-reveals-the-cover-to-his-new-sci-fi-anthology-spacewarp/)

(https://i2.wp.com/www.comicon.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/mail-8-scaled.jpeg?resize=768%2C994)

Quote from: Bolt-01 on 27 September, 2019, 08:11:27 AM
Surprised no-one here has mentioned that two more of the artists for Spacewarp are both forum members - Bruno Stahl and James Newell have both frequented this board for many years and I know James in particular has worked hard to get here. Congrats to them both.

<pimp>And of course they've both done work for me over at FQP - so remember folk - if you want to see who's going to be drawing the comics of tomorrow, check out FQP Today!</pimp>

Thanks, Dave, that means a lot! I do have fond memories working for FutureQuake. Sadly, the daily grind prevented me from doing more work  :'(

I read the whole thing over the weekend and I am confident it will live up to the hype. But then, I am biased and it'll be up to you fellows to decide.

The website is live and it's filled with extras and two free stories drawn by Gareth Sleighthome and Cliff Cumber. Pretty cool stuff :thumbsup:

https://www.spacewarpcomic.com/ (https://www.spacewarpcomic.com/)

The preorder link on the site connects to Amazon.com, and it disallows those of us located in UK (and probably elsewhere outside USA) from preordering.

I successfully preordered it via the Amazon app connected to UK site however.

Yes I saw that you can pre-order it on Kindle but it is quite expense if you compare it with Rebellion's Specials $11 vs $4.

Here is an article and preview as well: https://downthetubes.net/?p=119600 (https://downthetubes.net/?p=119600)


I am quite disappointed in his latest comments related to 2000AD

What's he saying about 2000 AD now? or do you just mean in that quote, which infers publishers stopped listening to readers a long time ago?

Amazon/Kindle specifically seems a weird choice considering Millsverse stuff is already on Comixology.

Doesn't Kindle stuff go across into the Comixology app at least? It'll be interesting to see if a non-DRM form of the comic exists at any point. (I only rarely buy anything of value I can't read in an app I can use without getting sick. Kindle is not one of them.)

Not always Indigo. There is some stuff only available on Kindle but not on Comixology like the Camealot 3000 collection (the single issues are availble on Comixology)

It's a bit steep for digital too. I appreciate that Pat is trying to determine a sustainable financial model but 6.99 for a kindle locked pdf? I'd expect that for print.

If you compare FutureQuake that is also available on Comixology for either 99c or $1.99 then the current price tag is way over top

Yeah, but FQ isn't out to make money - we are a Small Press comic with a focus on helping new talent to gain experience and develop. Hence why so many of the artists and writers we work with go on to become professionals.

If I was to even try to work out how much an issue cost to make at minimum wage I wouldn't be able to carry on.

There are no economies of scale for what Mills is doing. On that basis, I'm not against the price per se, but I do hope DRM-locked isn't the only model being used here. If it is, that instantly eradicates my interest in it, on the basis I won't be able to safely read the comic.

Hmmm, I can't even get onto the website - neither Chrome nor Firefox will let me past the Terms & Conditions box. If I do eventually succeed, what are my options for buying it? I don't have an Amazon comics app, and the only Kindle in the house is my daughter's bog-standard one which reduces colour comics to a graphite sludge.

I would like to support Uncle Pat though, and I'm delighted to see Bruno and James Newell on board too - their art contributions here and in FQ were always great.

Tordel you can get a Kindle app for both Android and iOS (Apple)

Cheers Broodblik, I did not know this! (so verrrry old)

It looks great - there's some terrific art in there and I've always enjoyed Pat's writing.
However, how often is it going to come out? It's really, really hard to get people to like new stuff enough to buy it and if you somehow manage to grab their imagination unless you have more content ready to go interest can tail off very quickly. I think there should have been four issues with defined arcs for each story maybe produced bi monthly. Unless I'm missing something of course

For people interested here is a review:

https://downthetubes.net/?p=119934 (https://downthetubes.net/?p=119934)

I will be purchasing this just as soon as it goes to print. Not digital I'm afraid, and I really hope it's at least a bi-monthly: that way the stated intended audience (which both my sons are) won't get impatient in between, and wont forget about it. Of course this means I'm down for at least two copies. Sigh.

I would hope Pat has the frequency firmly in hand from the off. If anyone could master that, it's him. Such a shame it's not available in newsagents though. A long while ago Jim gave a guesstimate (if memory serves) quote of half a million (was it?) to launch a new weekly on the high street. Wonder what it is now...

SBT

I will most likely will get this (digital is my only option). If this is going to work at least this must be running once a month otherwise as you stated we will forget about it

Quote from: broodblik on 24 July, 2020, 03:52:24 PM
If this is going to work at least this must be running once a month otherwise as you stated we will forget about it

I'd be very surprised if the artists could hit a monthly frequency turning out pages for a back-end payment. That's not a criticism — I understand the model (although I think the suggested payout on Pat's site is wildly optimistic) and paying upfront for 70-ish pages of B&W art would be no small chunk of change.

However, you're talking about the artists turning out maybe a couple of pages a week (and Pat's art notes, I believe, can be... extensive) to hit that schedule and that's a pretty big ask with no guaranteed page rate.

Yes I agree the reality of things are completely different from my expectations.  Hopefully this can be more frequent than just once a year or every 6 months.

I bought Spacewarp digitally and it is available on Comixology as well and not only Kindle:

https://www.comixology.com/Spacewarp-Vol-1-Phase-1/digital-comic/878265?ref=c2VhcmNoL2luZGV4L2Rlc2t0b3Avc2xpZGVyTGlzdC9pdGVtU2xpZGVy (https://www.comixology.com/Spacewarp-Vol-1-Phase-1/digital-comic/878265?ref=c2VhcmNoL2luZGV4L2Rlc2t0b3Avc2xpZGVyTGlzdC9pdGVtU2xpZGVy)

Creator's rights is the sort of ( civilized ) debate I do enjoy to be part of and I believe there's a strong case to be made in favour of a more creator-friendly industry. The endless cases of harassment ( as demonstrated by that excellent The Daily Beast exposé ) are intrinsically linked to a rotten to the core, work-for-hire system that not only empowers that kind of sociopath but also encourages them.

I am more than happy to invest my time into a project whose founding principles are in total alignment with mine. Plus,  I learned more about comics in 10 months working with Pat than from 10 years as a work-for-hire jobber. So love or hate him, the man knows his craft  :thumbsup:

Anyway, here's an opening page for one of the strips. Hope you guys will consider supporting the book. Ian, Gareth, Mike, James, myself and Ade have given our all and I think it shows.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/778313f4afb6ccf8a4ddb04367b82c80/66f1d6aeadfdeb4d-d0/s640x960/56e32be5cf761d89b5dcf036eca7550fdd360492.png)

That's a mighty fine first page there, Mensch.

Thank you, Bolt-01! Much appreciated  :)

Is this going to print, or only available digitally?

Judging from Comixology, it has that all-important download button, and so I might well try this now. (I didn't hear back from Pat about this. DRM-free is a must for me these days, for anything I don't consider 'throwaway'.)

Quote from: Link Prime on 29 July, 2020, 02:00:56 PM
Is this going to print, or only available digitally?

It is only available now digitally with a print release coming soon (I think its is sometime in October but I might be wrong)

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 29 July, 2020, 02:06:18 PM
Judging from Comixology, it has that all-important download button, and so I might well try this now. (I didn't hear back from Pat about this. DRM-free is a must for me these days, for anything I don't consider 'throwaway'.)

It is DRM free on Comixology either pdf or cbz

Quote from: broodblik on 29 July, 2020, 02:19:39 PM

Quote from: Link Prime on 29 July, 2020, 02:00:56 PM
Is this going to print, or only available digitally?

It is only available now digitally with a print release coming soon (I think its is sometime in October but I might be wrong)

Cheers BB.

Purchased, downloaded and devoured-- well, Jurassic Man anyway.

First thoughts - Classic Pat Mills. Lots of 'quoteable' dialogue and 'very' high concept. Really enjoyed it, though my eyes were assaulted by the inconsistent lettering by Mike D. The package feels like Toxic, which for me is a good thing.

On ComiXology this was £7.19, which is rather steep for 68 pages of digital content. I'm going to ration this over the next few days.

USD: 2000 AD [digital] is 6.21 cpp (cents-per-page). Spacewarp is 13.22 cpp.

(So 2000 AD costs 47% of Spacewarp in US prices.)

Still: I've got to buy the first issue.

Here's the link to buy Spacewarp at Comixology (https://m.comixology.com/Spacewarp-Vol-1-Phase-1/digital-comic/878265).

Seven quid is some way from the pocket-money pricing Mills originally mooted. That said, 68 pages is summer special level, and mini-IP's Beano was, IIRC, a fiver. So it's not heavily OTT.

Mensch - are you able to offer any word on frequency? Is Pat waiting to see how issue 01 sells before committing to 02 or is there a plan for the future?

The back of the comic says "at least six months" before a second issue phase.

Quote from: Bolt-01 on 29 July, 2020, 04:51:34 PM
Mensch - are you able to offer any word on frequency? Is Pat waiting to see how issue 01 sells before committing to 02 or is there a plan for the future?

6 months till the second. But that is an estimation based on the time taken working on the first phase. The second should be more straight forward as the characters and their world have already been established. Obviously it'll depend on whether it'll be a hit or not and the feedback we'll get from readers.
That is pretty much in line with the French model that Pat mentioned. My friend working for Dargaud is contractually obliged to deliver two albums a year, roughly 60 something pages each.

Spacewarp is basically an album in terms of content.

Quote from: MenschMaschine on 29 July, 2020, 05:26:30 PM

Quote from: Bolt-01 on 29 July, 2020, 04:51:34 PM
Mensch - are you able to offer any word on frequency? Is Pat waiting to see how issue 01 sells before committing to 02 or is there a plan for the future?

6 months till the second. But that is an estimation based on the time taken working on the first phase. The second should be more straight forward as the characters and their world have already been established. Obviously it'll depend on whether it'll be a hit or not and the feedback we'll get from readers.
That is pretty much in line with the French model that Pat mentioned. My friend working for Dargaud is contractually obliged to deliver two albums a year, roughly 60 something pages each.

Spacewarp is basically an album in terms of content.

This is not a model I'm familiar with but I love the idea - refining and polishing an album of content over time in the same way as a record or something. The extra time lets you add all the bits and bobs in between the stories and curate it all carefully.

I really enjoyed issue #1, it was absolutely bursting with ideas and the art was tremendous throughout!

Well, I'm finding that difficult to plow through, to be honest. It's a bit like a comic got possessed by David Icke. One of the core conceits is that all seven stories are inter-linked by the over-arching theme of humanity being toyed with by evil aliens akin to gods. That's an idea that (when I first read it in Slaine decades ago) seemed fresh and outlandish, but I've since come to learn is actually the foundation of a few real, sub-cultural belief systems (or conspiracy theories).

So, there's no escape in the comic from that central conceit, which is coupled with the well-worn idea that the solution to the ruling classes is to execute them. This has been explored ad infinitum in Slaine, Finn, Greysuit, Nemesis, Marshal Law, American Reaper, Ro-Busters, The A.B.C. Warriors, modern Flesh, Defoe & Dinosty. A lot of those are very good, of course, but in many cases they were better in the past and then became too polemical. Another point is that they were tempered by appearing in an anthology that gave you a break from that particular view of the world.

Interestingly, early Nemesis had the very strong idea that humanity was subjugating aliens. This has switched here (in many cases) into the idea that the only good alien is a dead alien. Whether the aliens are responsible for all your woes, or evil but disguised as humans, or infecting your own body, or pulling the strings of your society: the solution is nearly always to stamp on their head until they're dead. Very Starship Troopers.

This comic could be improved if more writers were involved, and the stories were de-shackled from the over-arching thread that forces them to be connected. In most cases the art is very good. In most cases, I had to force myself to continue reading, shouldering aside the rhetoric in an attempt to enjoy the inventive ideas.

I was looking forward of reading this in one go but at the end I struggled through this. I was hoping this would be as stated classic 2000AD but this was not the case. What makes anthologies what they are is the diversity of the stories and here we do not have them since everything is built around the same universe. The overall premise is my mine gripe I just did not like the concept.

All valid criticism and I appreciate the insight. If I may point something out ...

Spacewarp was never intended to be an exercise in nostalgia, it was not meant to be fanservice. Aesthetically - and I'm speaking for myself here - I never looked back on 2000AD as a source of inspiration. I still ignoring Flesh to this day.
Had I read it, something would have inevitably snuck into my system, and then translated in those pages. All of sudden, you find yourself with a "homage" in your hands, and that's a death sentence as a creator.

If anything, Pat and I discussed EC Comics at length during the creative process. But zero 2000AD artists, nowt!

Pat set the tone on those early progs, that is his style, some 2000AD element is already there, Spacewarp wouldn't benefit from an artist bringing more of that into the mixture.

I can state that I did enjoy the art and I do not mind the B/W at all. The art that stood out for me was Jurassic Punx (the best strip of them as well) and Slayer (the Nemesis wanna been, even the main antagonist felt like Torquemada).

What I should have added is that this was sold on the premises that each story will be a self-contained story. It never read like this and everyone of these stories ended abruptly.  All of them felt like only the beginning with some pages missing. Maybe in hindsight doing less strips with more page count could have remedied this.

I will give the second warp a whirl since this is only the first issue and I have learned that you should not judge a story only on its first episode.

Anyone got a view on whether to get this via Comixology or Kindle?

I have never used either and have an iPad, so I would need the Kindle app. Is it DRM free on Kindle?

The Comixology iPad app is pretty good, but this comic can also be downloaded in CBZ for use in Chunky. No idea if Kindle is a cross-purchase that's also DRM-free.

No idea - I purchased from comiXology and downloaded the book to read in my reader. I like that the digital edition had the wraparound as an extra at the end.

The package overall was pretty solid Mills through and through. Some stories worked better than others - I like Jurassic Man and Fu-Tant most but I would have liked more stories to have a resolution. From my (admittedly limited) experience of 'albums' I'd expected some resolutions to stories.

Some of the artists have issues with leaving enough space for lettering, and some of the font choices were baffling to me. However, this is a first issue-- possibly Pat's first 'first' issue since Toxic-- and would have been produced in a very different manner to that title.

I purchased it on Kindle and when you buy comics on Kindle it is available on Comixology as well for you. For this to work you must use the same account on both Amazon's site and Comixology site. You can login to Comixology  using your Amazon account.

Quote from: broodblik on 30 July, 2020, 01:10:32 PM
I can state that I did enjoy the art and I do not mind the B/W at all. The art that stood out for me was Jurassic Punx (the best strip of them as well) and Slayer (the Nemesis wanna been, even the main antagonist felt like Torquemada).

What I should have added is that this was sold on the premises that each story will be a self-contained story. It never read like this and everyone of these stories ended abruptly.  All of them felt like only the beginning with some pages missing. Maybe in hindsight doing less strips with more page count could have remedied this.

I will give the second warp a whirl since this is only the first issue and I have learned that you should not judge a story only on its first episode.

Oh, absolutely! Appreciate the feedback. It's something we all need to keep in mind for future issues. I'm sure the book will be fine-tuned until it finally comes out in print.
  I'm also aware that 2000AD comparisons are inevitable and I do not think it is a problem per se I thought in pointing out that Spacewarp should swim or sink on its own merits, and might not be your thing ( I hope you'll stick around ), but let's say Pat is cooking a different dish using similar ingredients and that's as far as nostalgia goes.

Quote from: broodblik on 30 July, 2020, 02:04:05 PM
I purchased it on Kindle and when you buy comics on Kindle it is available on Comixology as well for you. For this to work you must use the same account on both Amazon's site and Comixology site. You can login to Comixology  using your Amazon account.

Huh. I preordered the kindle version understanding I'd be able to download it on ComiXology, but on release, I could only find the kindle version. Wondering now if the comiXology version was released later.

Anyway, I've been reading it bit by bit on the kindle app. Yet to finish, so this is based on what I've read so far.

Gorgeous artwork. I'm struggling a bit with the stories though. No criticism intended, I think it's largely me. It's difficult to put my finger on exactly  why. It's not that I completely misunderstand them, and the artists tell the stories fine. I find myself thinking "eh, what?" when I finish a strip (not every strip). It feels jagged, somehow.

Mardriod it should now be available on comiXology (so you should be able to download it DRM free) . I read it on my iPad using the comiXology app and not the Kindle app. I like my non-AD stuff all to be in one place.

Quote from: broodblik on 30 July, 2020, 02:44:54 PM
Mardriod it should now be available on comiXology (so you should be able to download it DRM free) . I read it on my iPad using the comiXology app and not the Kindle app. I like my non-AD stuff all to be in one place.

Thanks Broodlik, yes I see it now. It seems to be classing it as a separate purchase to the Kindle version (wondering now If I've got two accounts) so I guess I'll just stick with what I have for now.

If you use your Amazon account on comiXology then you should have all your comic purchases on Kindle available on comiXology. If you have  a separate comiXology account then I do not think you will get your Kindle purchases

Quote from: broodblik on 30 July, 2020, 05:09:12 PM
If you use your Amazon account on comiXology then you should have all your comic purchases on Kindle available on comiXology. If you have  a separate comiXology account then I do not think you will get your Kindle purchases

I originally had them separately as I created a ComiXology account before the company was bought by Amazon. When it was bought I had them combined, so I'm not sure what's going on.

This isn't the only comic to do this, though. I recently bought the Rise of Kylo Ren* on Kindle, and I was unable to download it on ComiXology either.

Come to think of it, that was a preorder too. Maybe it's a software thing concerning preorders?

Maybe I just shouldn't bother with preorders, where digital comics are concerned. It's not as if they'll run out or I'm saving money.

*Off topic, but since I mentioned it, it's not brilliant but it's not bad. A bit predictable, but it at least expands on the Knights of Ren stuff which didn't get much explanation in the movies.

I've got issues with some of the writing but I kinda love it anyway. The art is brilliant, the bonus introductory text pages are great and it's just impressive that Mills was able to pull the whole thing off.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 30 July, 2020, 01:42:49 PM
The Comixology iPad app is pretty good, but this comic can also be downloaded in CBZ for use in Chunky. No idea if Kindle is a cross-purchase that's also DRM-free.

Dumb question - how do you download it in CBZ format?

I purchased the Kindle version and as broodblik advises it appears in ComiXology.

But I don't see how you export it into Chunky.

Not sure if this is helpful, but I had to go to the "backups" tab in order to download a copy.

Quote from: Funt Solo on 30 July, 2020, 11:37:27 PM
Not sure if this is helpful, but I had to go to the "backups" tab in order to download a copy.

I'm new to all this, so please bear with me-  where is the "backups" tab?

No worries - I found it a hassle to navigate as well:

(https://i.imgur.com/EuDQX0R.png)

Thanks - so from your screen shot it looks like I have to do it from the website not the app. Will give it a try later.

Quote from: broodblik on 30 July, 2020, 04:11:04 AM
I was looking forward of reading this in one go but at the end I struggled through this. I was hoping this would be as stated classic 2000AD but this was not the case. What makes anthologies what they are is the diversity of the stories and here we do not have them since everything is built around the same universe. The overall premise is my mine gripe I just did not like the concept.

I seem to recall there was an idea that all the original line-up of 2000AD would take place at various points in the same universe - thus Invasion took place in 1999, Harlem Heroes in 2050, Dredd in 2099, Dare in 2177 and Flesh in um, 23rd century* I think?












* as well as the Cretaceous.

The print version is due late October/ early November and Get My Comics are pre-ordering it for £9.99, with a signed bookplate for £11.49 and a limited edition personalised signed bookplate for £12.99

https://getmycomics.com/Release/Indie

There's a teen-friendly price point that'll really bring in those young readers this is apparently aimed at.

Not the cheapest comic out there (especially with a fiver delivery charge to ROI), but what 2000AD fan is gonna pass up the personalized signed bookplate edition?

NB - The same website is also selling 'Shift' issue 1. Decided to give it a look too.

I am not sure that today's teens like B/W comics.

Well, no, but then the people behind this long argued it wasn't just an exercise in nostalgia and was an attempt to dig into a market that wasn't currently well-served by existing titles. I recall Mills more than once referring to pocket money prices, such as when he stated (https://www.millsverse.com/sw2monetisation/) that although the print price would be eight quid (now ten, judging by the above), the digital one would

Quotebe priced much lower, so it falls within a kid's pocket money range

The current lowest price I can find is seven quid, on Kindle. For a 68-page book, that's not dreadful (mini-IP's beans specials are around a fiver), but that doesn't sound like "much lower" than print, nor "a kid's pocket money range".

Other than Pat's increasingly weird insistences to the contrary, there's not a single thing about this that suggests it's of the remotest interest to modern younger teens.

Its audience is solidly 40 and 50-something nostalgics.

Quote from: Link Prime on 12 October, 2020, 12:49:53 PM
what 2000AD fan is gonna pass up the personalized signed bookplate edition?

*raises hand*

I don't know why folk think this appeals to 2000 AD fans, apart from the author's name. And he's been David Icke-ing me away from being a fan of his for years now. All kudos for helping put the comic together in the first place, and I'm a huge fan of his early thrills, but not so much the modern rinse-repeat conspiracy-fueled diatribe schtick. It's less like reading stories and more like being beaten up gently by a rabid octogenarian.

I bought the digital edition out of curiosity. Only the completest in me would purchase a second issue.

Will there even be an issue 2 one wonders? Pat Mills' idea is admirable, create a contemporary equivalent of 2000AD in its early days for a young audience. But the product itself doesn't seem to live up to that. Time for Uncle Pat to take the long walk away from comics?

What I find a bit weird is that it's a Mills-only show from a writing standpoint. Everything else coming out right now that's broadly equivalent to 2000 AD has a range of creators. Here, it's one creative force writing and a bunch of artists.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 12 October, 2020, 03:57:57 PM
What I find a bit weird is that it's a Mills-only show from a writing standpoint. Everything else coming out right now that's broadly equivalent to 2000 AD has a range of creators. Here, it's one creative force writing and a bunch of artists.

If there were other writers, he would have to split the (very generous...) 50% of the writer's share of the profits with them.

If you think this isn't about a payday for Pat, then you've not been paying attention.

Quote from: Funt Solo on 12 October, 2020, 03:20:17 PM
I don't know why folk think this appeals to 2000 AD fans, apart from the author's name.

You don't know why a fast-paced sci-fi comic with smashing art, visually-exciting characters, and a variety of action-heavy stories might potentially appeal to 2000AD readers? Fair enough if it doesn't grab you, but working out why some of us might be interested isn't exactly a conundrum.

Quote from: judgeurko on 12 October, 2020, 03:50:37 PM
Time for Uncle Pat to take the long walk away from comics?

Why would he do that when he still has an audience for his output? Again, you may no longer be part of that audience, and that's fine, but if Pat ever chooses to walk away from comics, I'm sure it will be on his own terms.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 12 October, 2020, 03:57:57 PM
What I find a bit weird is that it's a Mills-only show from a writing standpoint. Everything else coming out right now that's broadly equivalent to 2000 AD has a range of creators. Here, it's one creative force writing and a bunch of artists.

Pat has said that it's his longer-term intention to bring other writers on-board as well.

Quote from: Greg M. on 12 October, 2020, 04:10:17 PM
Why would he do that when he still has an audience for his output? Again, you may no longer be part of that audience, and that's fine, but if Pat ever chooses to walk away from comics, I'm sure it will be on his own terms.

Did I say he should? There was a question mark at the end of that comment of mine you quoted. This means it was a question, not a statement of fact.

And kids familiar with Bill Savage I recall from the example feedback he shared.. so that must be a market of erm....

Well, to be fair, my son is familiar with early 2000AD, enjoyed reading the Best ofs, so maybe he is in that small niche of kids indoctrinated by their parents or who stumbled onto 2000AD through a love of comics in general... wouldn't find my (now 15 year old) Joe being interested in this at all, even with the indoctrination - he might glance at my copy, might even enjoy it, possibly (more of a Rogue Trooper fan, how did that happen?!) but pay for it? Nope.

Me, I am up for it, I admit I'll forgive a lot from Uncle Pat, even if he claims he doesn't want me reading it....

Quote from: GordonR on 12 October, 2020, 02:54:17 PM
Other than Pat's increasingly weird insistences to the contrary, there's not a single thing about this that suggests it's of the remotest interest to modern younger teens.

Its audience is solidly 40 and 50-something nostalgics.

Quote from: judgeurko on 12 October, 2020, 04:35:07 PM
There was a question mark at the end of that comment of mine you quoted. This means it was a question, not a statement of fact.

Rhetorical questions end in question marks too.

Quote from: Greg M. on 12 October, 2020, 04:48:23 PM

Quote from: judgeurko on 12 October, 2020, 04:35:07 PM
There was a question mark at the end of that comment of mine you quoted. This means it was a question, not a statement of fact.

Rhetorical questions end in question marks too.

Do they?

Quote from: Mister Pops on 12 October, 2020, 04:55:39 PM
Do they?

What do you think I am, an English teacher?

Oh, hold on...

(This is turning into one of the rounds from Whose Line Is It Anyway?)

Probably won't be getting this, pat's stuff doesn't do it for me anymore and would be quite happy if he doesn't write for 2000ad anymore

Quote from: Greg M. on 12 October, 2020, 04:10:17 PM

Quote from: Funt Solo on 12 October, 2020, 03:20:17 PM
I don't know why folk think this appeals to 2000 AD fans, apart from the author's name.

You don't know why a fast-paced sci-fi comic with smashing art, visually-exciting characters, and a variety of action-heavy stories might potentially appeal to 2000AD readers? Fair enough if it doesn't grab you, but working out why some of us might be interested isn't exactly a conundrum.

You make a good point.

I could argue that it's not fast-paced, it's not a (writers') anthology, the characters aren't visually exciting and the stories lack variety because they're hamstrung by an over-arching plot that limits their scope. And, it's in black and white. It just doesn't compare well (at all) with modern 2000 AD, so I don't see much of a direct crossover.

Still, you do make a good point. Of course there is a general crossover of big themes like "sci-fi" and "comic". (And it's Mills.)

Quote from: Funt Solo on 12 October, 2020, 07:26:16 PM
I could argue that it's not fast-paced, it's not a (writers') anthology, the characters aren't visually exciting and the stories lack variety because they're hamstrung by an over-arching plot that limits their scope. And, it's in black and white.

You're right that it's different from modern 2000AD, but it has a fair bit in common with the prog's previous incarnations and that's what I was basing the comparison on. I think the stories are fast-paced - if anything, there are times they maybe need to stop for breath - and I do find the characters visually interesting. I think some modern 2000AD characters suffer from just being some man / some woman - sign me up for the comic with minotaur-headed space-robots any day! The one thing I will partially agree on is that I'm not totally sold on just how intertwined the stories are - when Pat first described the comic, I pictured it simply as 'shared universe', but it's clearly closer-knit than that.

Quote from: Greg M. on 12 October, 2020, 08:09:40 PM
some man / some woman

Is it safe to mention Skip Tracer? I've only read a few episodes but the lead is just dull, action-trope cipher-nothing blandity in a baloney sandwich (minus the sandwich).

Quote from: Greg M. on 12 October, 2020, 04:48:23 PM

Quote from: judgeurko on 12 October, 2020, 04:35:07 PM
There was a question mark at the end of that comment of mine you quoted. This means it was a question, not a statement of fact.

Rhetorical questions end in question marks too.

I know. But it wasn't a rhetorical question.

I bought the digital edition and actually thought it was... pretty good?
I even think it DOES appeal to younger readers than me, it's not a million miles from X-Men in terms of teen angst. And that still sells, like... dozens of copies each month.
My two comics-reading 11 year-olds have no interest, based on casual glances at the cover.

As someone who doesn't especially enjoy comics aimed at children I'm not planning to buy more issues. That said, Pat is showing off that he still knows how to craft characters and settings and even have an entire anthology comic which is all part of a single narrative - I admire all that. It even has that air of 'some parents might think it was dangerously subversive' which is great. And I'm all for more comics that give new artists a chance to work with an editor and get their stuff paid for and published.

But I'm with the crowd on this one - who is going to buy this regularly, and how can they possibly expect to find enough readers to make it remotely profitable? Let alone get it enough press to get it 'banned' by idiot dults.

If you wanna make money making comics for children, I'd have thought the lead to follow is the one set by Raina Telgemaier, Dav Pilkey etc. Make big books, not little pamphlets... 
These sell for a tenner most of the time - not pocket-money prices, but it is Birthday book token from your second-favourite uncle prices.

Got an email from the Getmycomics website recently, seems the "Personalized signed bookplate edition" is legit a chance to get Pat to write a message about pretty much anything (within reason).

Thought about getting an amusing quote from Nemesis or ABC Warriors, but decided against it as this is non-Tharg related.
Will let Uncle P scribble whatever profanity comes to mind.

Might go with a Marshal Law quote.. 

Quote from: Dr Feeley Good on 29 October, 2020, 10:20:17 AM
Might go with a Marshal Law quote..

"If you're the new messiah, I'm going to be the one to drive in the nails."

I cut that page out of Strip back in the day and had it on my wall at university, along with a lot of 2000AD covers.

Regards,

Robin

I know this has been a bit marmite with some people, but I very much liked that. It is *very* Pat Mills- so if you dont like that, you wont like this. But I do- and Pat writes comics I want to read, and which I am incapable of reading without a huge grin and a feeling of being ten again- so this ticked my boxes.

Favourite things were Slayer, Jurassic Punx and Hellbreaker. The art is uniformly great throughout and I would love to be afford two more copies, one for each of my boys. But I cant because it's an expensive comic. Hopefully he'll get a version in newsagents, at some point and in some form. Because there is a ton of potential here.

SBT

I got the printed copy of this the other day, the comic itself is a real good quality print and cover. I felt that the price is a bit high for my liking, but the again it was self published and had no ads to help cover the costs. If he tried to sell it as in the style of the European annual comics this might have help sell it  to a few more people so you're not sat thinking when is the next issue coming out it has been weeks/months since the first issue.
Still I will most likely get the second issue when it comes out

Pat Mills appears to be losing the plot a bit on twitter now.

Yeah its being discussed over at the Forthcoming Thrills - 2021 thread (for some reason?)
https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=46806.0 (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=46806.0)

Lots of folks in agreement with you alas - not alas they agree, alas they thing Uncle Pat isn't coming across well at all. We owe him so much and he's a fine storyteller when on form, but this isn't reflecting well on him.

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 24 November, 2020, 09:27:04 AM
Yeah its being discussed over at the Forthcoming Thrills - 2021 thread (for some reason?)
https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=46806.0 (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=46806.0)

Lots of folks in agreement with you alas - not alas they agree, alas they thing Uncle Pat isn't coming across well at all. We owe him so much and he's a fine storyteller when on form, but this isn't reflecting well on him.

I think Spacewarp hasn't been quite the success he hoped for. What kids are going to buy a £10 b & w comic?

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 24 November, 2020, 09:27:04 AM
Yeah its being discussed over at the Forthcoming Thrills - 2021 thread (for some reason?)

Spun out of the revelation that forthcoming Sláine was also final Mills, I think.

Quote from: TordelBack on 24 November, 2020, 10:30:26 AM

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 24 November, 2020, 09:27:04 AM
Yeah its being discussed over at the Forthcoming Thrills - 2021 thread (for some reason?)

Spun out of the revelation that forthcoming Sláine was also final Mills, I think.

It looks like it will run for 10 episodes

Quote from: judgeurko on 24 November, 2020, 09:53:36 AMI think Spacewarp hasn't been quite the success he hoped for. What kids are going to buy a £10 b & w comic?

I think the basic aim of Spacewarp was fine, but something got lost along the way—mostly due to reality. One of the key problems of modern comics is accessibility, not the actual content. Mills appears wrapped up in this 1970s view of subversive counter-culture, but there are other ways to get ideas across. There's a blog post Mills wrote a while back, talking about his new comic being available for pocket-money prices in digital (https://www.millsverse.com/sw2monetisation/):

QuoteThe print price is likely to be £8, although this is something we're still thinking about, because we want it to be financially viable for the artists. So it may be a little higher, particularly if we end up with more than 36 pages of strip art.

The digital edition will be priced much lower, so it falls within a kid's pocket money range. Feedback from our beta readers agreed that many kids will happily read on their tablet or phone.

Well, that didn't happen, presumably because the comic expanded in size and costs need to be recouped. So now it's seven quid in digital and a tenner in print, for 66 pages. That's not a bad value proposition per se, but it does align the comic with everything else that's currently out there, rather than differentiating it on content AND accessibility. And that leaves the question: who is this for? If you're aiming away from the middle class comics crowd, how does that work when your product costs so much money?

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 24 November, 2020, 11:24:20 AM

Quote from: judgeurko on 24 November, 2020, 09:53:36 AMI think Spacewarp hasn't been quite the success he hoped for. What kids are going to buy a £10 b & w comic?

I think the basic aim of Spacewarp was fine, but something got lost along the way—mostly due to reality. One of the key problems of modern comics is accessibility, not the actual content. Mills appears wrapped up in this 1970s view of subversive counter-culture, but there are other ways to get ideas across. There's a blog post Mills wrote a while back, talking about his new comic being available for pocket-money prices in digital (https://www.millsverse.com/sw2monetisation/):

QuoteThe print price is likely to be £8, although this is something we're still thinking about, because we want it to be financially viable for the artists. So it may be a little higher, particularly if we end up with more than 36 pages of strip art.

The digital edition will be priced much lower, so it falls within a kid's pocket money range. Feedback from our beta readers agreed that many kids will happily read on their tablet or phone.

Well, that didn't happen, presumably because the comic expanded in size and costs need to be recouped. So now it's seven quid in digital and a tenner in print, for 66 pages. That's not a bad value proposition per se, but it does align the comic with everything else that's currently out there, rather than differentiating it on content AND accessibility. And that leaves the question: who is this for? If you're aiming away from the middle class comics crowd, how does that work when your product costs so much money?

A lot has changed since I bought 2000AD regularly but I remember how accessible comics used to be before comic book shops took over. I know Mills has talked a lot about going for the young audience, but maybe it just isn't there. I think kids will run to the latest Marvel movie or play the latest Marvel game but will they buy the comics? I think it is basically a medium mainly for older audiences & even with Mills' best intentions it was never really going to work. Who knows it even exists apart from 2000AD fans, who may buy it for themselves rather than their kids. Mills will never say he is wrong, so maybe all this rage is his frustration at the failure misdirected.

Is it really "rage", though? Isn't it the same Pat that writes all those brilliant forewords to his collections where he turns into a comics version of Henry Sellers (https://fatherted.fandom.com/wiki/Henry_Sellers) at the start of the second column, just this time with a twitter box blinking at him, and people to bait him and egg him on in real time? 

I object to his current targets because I'm very defensive of my beloved comic and the droids that labour in its thrill mines, and I really don't need to see any more false accusations that 2000AD is staggering along like a corporate zombie version of its former self, but I also think it's just Pat being Pat, with more than an eye to drawing the attention of lapsed fans to his own project (a laudable goal, stripped of context).

It's not like he hasn't said mean things about editors and creators before (about professionals on this very forum, even), and it's not like it isn't something that goes on in the wider comics industry, and the public sphere in general. That's not to defend the behaviour, these are real people with real careers getting a public put-down by a bona-fide comics legend, but perhaps it is just business as usual in Pat's head, rather than some moment of crisis.

I think I'd better stop commenting on this stuff from here on, no matter what I write it seems like I'm standing in judgement on  a guy I consider to be one of the greatest comics creators of all time, whose forcefully expressed not-always-fully-informed opinions have always been part of the magic.

Apart from anything else, kids are reading comics. They're just not reading the same kind of comics or in the same format as previous generations. I hope Spacewarp works out, but is it really for kids?

Depends on whether you think the best person to decide what's for kids is someone in their 70s. Mills did some brilliant work in the 1970s. He revolutionised a tired industry. But whether the same approach is relevant today is open to question.

My take isn't that we have an issue of approach or content today, but of accessibility. There just aren't that many traditional comics. Most stuff aimed at kids is plastic tat. If you don't want The Beano, you're basically fucked. (Yes, The Phoenix is often great, but its distribution is scattershot.)

It's just not at the newstand anymore, or in comics shops. Check out kids comics at your local bookstore, that's where they're booming.

Quote from: CalHab on 24 November, 2020, 03:54:26 PM
Apart from anything else, kids are reading comics. They're just not reading the same kind of comics or in the same format as previous generations. I hope Spacewarp works out, but is it really for kids?

But didn't he claim it was for kids? When someone like Pat has been so instrumental & important in the world of British comics it must be frustrating to find that you are no longer relevant. That's what it feels like to me anyway. It happens to most important creative people, it all depends on how you deal with it either with dignity or the way Pat is doing it.

Aye, that's true. Mini-Solo has book shelves full of comics (mostly in GN / book format) and has a web site she consumes vast quantities of comic at. An absolute avid reader of comics at a rate and scale that makes my own experience at that age (8) pale into insignificance.

Our attempt to engage with comics in a weekly anthology format (Phoenix) was subverted by their absolutely atrocious customer service. We tried our best to subscribe for a second year (despite the first year having turned me bald with hair loss stress) but their system defeated us.

Ah that's a shame, big Jamie Smart fans in this house, though we mainly get his stuff in trade.

if Rebellion ever does anything with Oink they should totally headhunt him to be in charge of it.

Oh, that's a good idea - I can buy the trades of Bunny vs. Monkey - she'll love that.

The boy loves the comic and still devours the trades. The latest reprints books 1 + 2 in a more Dog Man format. Gone down very well with a couple of folks we've bought it for as a present.

Quote from: Funt Solo on 24 November, 2020, 07:06:31 PM
Oh, that's a good idea - I can buy the trades of Bunny vs. Monkey - she'll love that.

They recently published a lovely smaller sized collection.

The thing with comics is not whether a child will read them if they're stuck in their face by an eager dad, but whether they will actually ask for themselves. I got my stepson reading some collections - some 2000AD, some Marvel - and he genuinely loved reading. Gave him a load of my old Marvel comics, and he enjoys reading them to. But it's never something that he actually asks for a present. It just doesn't occur to him.

A Facebook locale, recently:

Mod A Post: Spacewarp is great!
User A: It felt amateurish..
User B: I couldn't finish it.
User C: That's unsupportive!
Mod B: Users A & B are arseholes!

It's not a conversation I was involved in, but I've just seen it and it appears you have misread it. 'Mod B' does not call 'Users A & B' arseholes - he makes reference (in a reply to 'User C') to the well-known aphorism that opinions are like arseholes - everyone's got one. The suggestion is, in fact, that 'User C' accept that others will have different opinions.

Will: that's primarily down to parents. If children don't know they can ask for something, they won't.

Funt: doesn't surprise me. I was temp-banned from one group for breaking the rules, which in reality meant having the audacity to say that someone wasn't being accurate in their regular slagging off of Rebellion.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 25 November, 2020, 07:49:29 AM
Will: that's primarily down to parents. If children don't know they can ask for something, they won't.

Funt: doesn't surprise me. I was temp-banned from one group for breaking the rules, which in reality meant having the audacity to say that someone wasn't being accurate in their regular slagging off of Rebellion.

Yeah this really isn't true. Kids will ask for stuff all the time. Really random stuff, when you go "how do you even know about this?" before you realise they saw a YouTube advert or someone at School is talking about it. The problem is comics aren't the pop culture so there's no positive reinforcement - friends to talk about reading them, friends letting you know about the new ones, etc.

Mini-IP is currently subscribed to The Beano, The Phoenix and the new Lego Explorers. She bloody loves them. She has a pile of trades and graphic novels as well. This clearly comes from me. I wanted her to have that experience. But most parents either never had that or have forgotten about it and so don't investigate. One of mini-IP's best friends has a dad who is big into geek culture, and his daughter gets the Dandy annual. But it doesn't seem to have occurred to them that she could have weekly product.

Perhaps comics on the newsstand are doomed. Maybe we are heading to a future where the only options will be sporadic tat purchases (a plastic bag of shite) or graphic novels. That would be a pity, because the anthology format provides opportunities that otherwise just wouldn't exist for a range of properties. But I've no idea how to get around this. I live in a fairly affluent area, but hardly anyone in mini-G's class gets any comics. (She mentioned one friend's brother gets The Beano, so that's about it.)

My brothers children are subscribed to the Beano and the Phoenix and I've noticed the main bit of fun for them seems to be getting some post of their own every week.
They do love reading them and drawing the characters but collecting and re-reading them again and again seems a bit of an anathema and I suspect this is because of Youtube, Netflix, Spotify and so on where actually having a physical copy of something just isn't done.

It's all driven by my brother though based on his own love of comics. I don't think they'd really care about them otherwise because as you guys say they're not a 'thing' for kids and so fly under the radar for most. I dropped round a big load of old Busters for them but they'd rather watch another kid playing Minecraft on Youtube.

It also depends on how the individual child's passions develop. Mini-IP is 6. She mostly watches (and rewatches) extremely safe TV. This seems to be a thing with girls in her school. They don't like peril. TV is a switch-off-and-relax medium. But with music, she's really getting into proper fare. (She was dancing around to Joy Division the other day. She fires up Kraftwerk, Salad and Wire on her iPod touch.)

Reading, though, is one of her true loves. So unlike your nephews, she'll blaze through her comics and then read them multiple times. Quite often, we'll get up in the morning at the weekend and she'll have been up since 7 reading. There will be comics and books all over the place. Perhaps that will change when she gets into other things; but perhaps it won't. (Minecraft isn't a thing as yet—but she does adore Lego.)

Fair point. The TV is on literally all the time in my brothers house and the children psuedo-watch cartoons and the like almost constantly (they always seem to be watching TV and doing something else at the same time) so I don't think reading is their forte.

To be honest mini-IP sounds a lot cooler!

Yeah the boy child (9 next week gulp!) absolutely devours The Phoenix and he has a collection of back issues now which is almost a complete set (wonder where he got that from...) and he regularly read through them and his Bunny Vs Monkey collections, though Diary of a Wimpy Kid seems to have become choice number 1 of late. He's the same with his Dog Man books and a few other bits I've pimped on him.

I've bought some cheap Best of 2000ad for when I break him - his regular playing of the old Games Workshop Judge Dredd board game seems to be my best hope there as he loves asking questions about the various characters and I keep saying just ask when you want to read the comics. At the moment his favourite comics are still the more humour based Looshkin or Bunny Vs Monkey type.

Interestingly he like his comics safe but watches some quite scarey tv or films relative for his age (I think???).

Anyway IndigoPrime you mention Salad as in Marijne van der Vlugt Salad - no heard them for ages but used to  like them - must check them out again...

@Barrington Boots: She's a good kid—and much of that is on her. But I'm dead happy she enjoys STEM (Lego/science) and dinos as well as cuddly toys/unicorns, because that's a battle these days. The music thing's fun too—pre-lockdown, she was playing The Man-Machine to a bubble friend who dropped by for a playdate. As for comics, you probably won't be shocked to know she's now the proud owner of my two Cor/Buster specials...

@Colin: I suspect there are big variations in how children process different mediums. I have friends who've shown relatively young kids Alien and they don't give the slightest shit. My kid found Paddington too scary because of a few moments of peril. Yet we've read through books beyond her age range and with some scary moments and she's absolutely fine.

And, yes, that Salad. Drink The Elixir is a firm favourite in this household.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 25 November, 2020, 11:46:56 AM

And, yes, that Salad. Drink The Elixir is a firm favourite in this household.

I've got 12 inches of all the first singles that made up the first album and some other singles too. I was quite the fan and have a set list or two I got from jumping on stage at the Leadmill as there was a phase when they (or bloody Sleeper!) seemed to support every band that played there... anyway I digress ...

I tried and failed to get either of mine interested in following weekly/monthly comics beyond the age of about 7 or 8, but both enjoy collections, even ancient B&W stuff like Charley's War and Calvin & Hobbes, and they'll enthusiastically read one-offish Rebellion projects like Tammy and Misty. They just can't seem to be arsed with 6/20 pages of a story and then a wait.

My daughter treats collected volumes much as I did individual comics, being up to Vol 15 or so on things like Lumberjanes, with maybe half a dozen series in her sights at any one time, sharing them with friends and always asking for new ones, so the ongoing serial nature of comics isn't the issue there: just the mode of delivery.  She also makes half-decent comics detailing the in-universe events of online games she plays with her friends, or spinoffs of Ghibli, kawaii or YouTube characters, so it's not even that the huge range of alternative media available to kids is necessarily supplanting interest in the form itself.

Mini-IP has a Peanuts treasury and a Calvin & Hobbes collection as well. She really likes the latter. Lumberjanes: I'll admit to having recently bought the first six or so Max volumes in HC, in the hope mini-IP will like them when old enough. (I suspect she's a little bit young right now.) It was one of the few FCBD comics I gave her that she wanted to keep.

My 6 year old is exactly the same. She loves Peanuts, Calvin & Hobbes, Beano, Dogman, Narwhal & Jellyfish, DC Superhero Girls, My Little Pony, Spidey and Bunny vs Monkey. There are plenty of comics out there selling well for younger readers.

I've also picked up a heap of random stuff from Gosh! when I'm down in that there London. They have the best kids comics selection of any shop I've been to.

Will have to try her on The Lumberjanes, for some reason I thought that was for an older readership.

Quote from: CalHab on 25 November, 2020, 01:43:48 PM
Will have to try her on The Lumberjanes, for some reason I thought that was for an older readership.

A bit older, maybe, but not much if she already enjoys Peanuts. There is a bit of fantasy peril of the scary monster variety, but it gets resolved satisfactorily and often amicably, and there is wordplay and anagram puzzles which may go over the head of a 6 year-old,  but not to any ill effect.

My own daughter has been enjoying them since about 8 (at a guess, I forget), and she still is at 11 (as am I at 49), which is refreshing longevity these days: there are deep lessons about friendship, physical and emotional self-reliance, and some well-integrated gay and transgender themes, all of which reward the older reader and extend the appeal beyond superficial wilderness adventure. There are also chunky prose novel spin-offs, which have gone down well here too. It's just a very fine comic all round.

Quote from: TordelBack on 25 November, 2020, 02:02:40 PM
It's just a very fine comic all round.

I've worked on a few of the OGNs and they're terrific. Glad to hear they go down well with the actual target audience and not just fify-year-old letterers. :-)

I rather enjoyed the series myself when I read it from a Humble Bundle, hence biting the bullet and going for the collected editions. Worst-case, I can always resell. (HCs tend to hold value rather well.)

CalHab: Narwhal & Jellyfish also went down well here, although those strips can be blazed through at terrifying speed compared to Bunny vs Monkey! Have you tried any of Joe Todd-Stanton's stuff? Marcy and the Riddle of the Sphinx was a big hit here, as was Arthur and the Golden Rope. (Kai and the Monkey King didn't get the same response, for whatever reason.) I keep hinting regarding Hilda and the Troll, but she's never agreed to get that out of the library, although the Netflix prose adaptations hit the spot.

Yes, she and I both enjoyed The Secret of Black Rock (which I think I bought at Gosh!). Beautiful artwork with some very clear storytelling.

Hilda is also a big hit with us, but she found one of the later books a bit too scary. I'm glad to see the second series of that will be out on Netflix shortly.

I'm not sure mini-IP's ever read Secret of Black Rock. Hmm. Christmas present! (Leo and the Gorgon's Curse is also out now.)

Quote from: Greg M. on 25 November, 2020, 06:30:01 AM
It's not a conversation I was involved in, but I've just seen it and it appears you have misread it. 'Mod B' does not call 'Users A & B' arseholes - he makes reference (in a reply to 'User C') to the well-known aphorism that opinions are like arseholes - everyone's got one. The suggestion is, in fact, that 'User C' accept that others will have different opinions.

I appreciate we've interpreted it differently. Eye of the beholder, and all that.

---

Quite enjoying all the recommendations for good comics on this thread. Hilda's a big hit here, also. It's one of those mythical stories that somehow magically seems as if it's always existed.

Quote from: Funt Solo on 25 November, 2020, 02:49:14 PM
Quite enjoying all the recommendations for good comics on this thread. Hilda's a big hit here, also. It's one of those mythical stories that somehow magically seems as if it's always existed.

Yeah, I've got a few ideas for the Christmas stocking!

Comixology has a sale on Spacewarp:

https://www.comixology.com/Spacewarp-Vol-1-Phase-1/digital-comic/878265?ref=c2l0ZS9saXN0L2Rlc2t0b3AvZ3JpZExpc3QvMzY3NDY (https://www.comixology.com/Spacewarp-Vol-1-Phase-1/digital-comic/878265?ref=c2l0ZS9saXN0L2Rlc2t0b3AvZ3JpZExpc3QvMzY3NDY)

Quote from: broodblik on 13 January, 2021, 05:51:50 AM
Comixology has a sale on Spacewarp:

https://www.comixology.com/Spacewarp-Vol-1-Phase-1/digital-comic/878265?ref=c2l0ZS9saXN0L2Rlc2t0b3AvZ3JpZExpc3QvMzY3NDY (https://www.comixology.com/Spacewarp-Vol-1-Phase-1/digital-comic/878265?ref=c2l0ZS9saXN0L2Rlc2t0b3AvZ3JpZExpc3QvMzY3NDY)

nice, thanks!

If anyone involved with the production / logistics are reading this - good work.

I received my copies of Spacewarp and Shift just before Christmas - impressed with the content and production values, and I don't think I have ever received comics packed so carefully via the post.

when is Spacewarp #2?

Interesting question.

I was hoping that we'd get an announcement of some sort over the festivities; give the readers something to look forward to and all that.

Maybe, if any of the contributors are about, one of them could share if there is any news from Pat?

In my head I've read that Uncle Pat is trying to work out a model to diversify the writing with appropriate reward structures in place and that's why we've not heard more... I may have dreamt that of course!

Don't know if anyone has asked this already, but what did you all think of Pat Mills' Spacewarp?

Topics merged—IP

This is one of those publications where I continued reading in the hope that it got better and ended by just reading it to get it done.  I was surprised that this was my take on it since I have never read a Pat Mills story which I did not like (even if it felt like a repeat and his obsessive focus on anti-authority story-lines). 

Quote from: broodblik on 08 March, 2021, 06:28:04 PM
This is one of those publications where I continued reading in the hope that it got better and ended by just reading it to get it done.  I was surprised that this was my take on it since I have never read a Pat Mills story which I did not like (even if it felt like a repeat and his obsessive focus on anti-authority story-lines).

That's a shame, man. Can't say I blame you as it is definitely provocative in its themes, but that's why l loved it. I felt it had flare.

Quote from: Wilko10 on 08 March, 2021, 07:13:31 PM
That's a shame, man. Can't say I blame you as it is definitely provocative in its themes, but that's why l loved it. I felt it had flare.

I do not mind it being provocative but I could not get into the world Mills tried to make. I just did not care for any of the characters at all. 

I thought it was pretty decent but very much aimed at teens rather than adults. And while I have plenty of time for teen stuff the sad truth is I only really enjoy it when it has some nostalgic connection for me. So I can still get into Marvel superheroes and indeed some old 2000AD stories but not so much all-new things like Spacewarp (not to mention a bajillion much-loved TV shows aimed at younger people than me!)

Bit late to the party on this one, but I've finished Spacewarp and I was impressed.

I've struggled with a lot of Pat Mills' recent Prog output but this all felt a lot fresher. Pat is one of the all time greats when it comes to ideas and this is bursting with them. Keeping all the stories tied to a central concept is ambitious and as some have said possibly limiting, but I'm impressed with the audacity of it.
Highlights for me were Jurassic Punx and Hellbreaker but I enjoyed the bulk of it.. SF1 I felt was the weak strip within - the latter has a great idea but the ensemble cast seemed lacking, that may just need time.

I'm not sure it achieves a lot of the goals it set when conceived - I can't see the mooted target teen market paying that much for a b&w comic, regardless of the quality - but I'm guessing that this was the only realistic option. Tbh I think for the younger market Regend does it better. But I'd definitely like to see more Spacewarp and I think teenage me would have loved it.

Also late to the party, I found Spacewarp #1 less flashy than the prog, but its content was more objectively interesting.  The biggest hurdle was the shared universe conceit, which I don't think I'm being terribly controversial in saying is getting a bit overdone at the moment, but Pat pulls it off.  I'll risk sounding uncharitable and offer that this seems to be the work of someone more obviously invested in the material than the guy who wrote recent prog offerings, and he's produced some memorable characters - mainly villains.
I don't think the price hurts this as much as some like to think it will, as the comics market has already set a costly precedent, and I think what will most help or hinder this project will probably be its social media footprint, though luckily that seems to be going well.
Looking forward to more, if/when it appears.

Will we get a second issue?

Pat only knows...

Quote from: Professor Bear on 18 March, 2021, 03:41:57 PM
The biggest hurdle was the shared universe conceit, which I don't think I'm being terribly controversial in saying is getting a bit overdone at the moment, but Pat pulls it off.

That is one of the things that did not work for me. I am not a fan off these shared universes where everything a publisher is published is in a this self-contained universe.

Quote from: judgeurko on 18 March, 2021, 04:03:17 PM
Will we get a second issue?

I'll be mildly surprised if there's a #2, and fucking astonished if there's a #3.

To be fair, he's a bit busy right now, slagging people off on Twitter. (Abnett, I'm assuming, who he says "has previous". And griping about a certain Satanus story.)

Pat's complaining about someone ripping off his story "The Return of Rico". That would be this story here, with the original and very precious dialogue by a Mr. P. Mills*:

(https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/dredd_rico.png)


*Not a "hungry hack" borrowing content from hit songs. Or anything like that. No, sir! All original material here, Sam. Yup.

Do as I say not as I do

That's always been the way. Similarly, he's furious when editors rewrite his scripts, yet he rewrote other writers when he was an editor. He even infers on Twitter that Dredd is his strip, albeit one he let go and so he's OK with other writers penning it (unlike anything else he came up with).

I have some sympathy for Mills from a creator standpoint for those strips very closely associated with him. Even with him deciding he's done with 2000 AD, I'm not sure I want to see anyone else tackling Sláine or ABC Warriors (although Moore's one-off was nice) or Savage. But the ongoing slagging off of other writers and the frequent borderline slander that he partakes in really doesn't do him any favours (although seems to go down well with a certain contingent).

It'll also be interesting when I get to his stuff in the big Hachette read-through I'm doing. I hope I still enjoy his early work and that I'll find something new to enjoy when reading some of the other stuff collected. But right now, I'm glad that Greysuit is some way off, I'm not thrilled about trudging through middle-era Sláine, and I really wish Finn hadn't been added to the extension.

QuotePat's complaining about someone ripping off his story "The Return of Rico". That would be this story here, with the original and very precious dialogue by a Mr. P. Mills*:

When you do it it's ripping him off, when he does it it's a homage

I enjoyed the 1st issue well enough to warrant picking up more if it's printed.
Just serendipity that I get to support a creator whose work I admire.

Not on Twitter, and not sure it's too relevant to the discussion either. Not for me anyway.

If I was to consider every comics creator's social media conduct when deciding to purchase their work the oul reading pile would be a lot lighter.

Interesting - Spacewarp has teamed up with Shift (such a great comic check it out) to produce a newstand edition.

https://theshift.store/collections/shift-comic-anthology-issues-1-5/products/shift-presents-two-pack (https://theshift.store/collections/shift-comic-anthology-issues-1-5/products/shift-presents-two-pack)

Its available on it own and as a two pack with Brawler (linked above). No idea about how and why but maybe it suggests the distribution model of Shift have placed it in more hands and Uncle Pat is pushing hard to get his comic out via those channels.

Newstand distribution would help deal with the central problem with Spacewarp- Mills says that its being produced for the mainstream as they are neglected by publishers in favour of fans, but it is inaccessible and invisible to all but a tiny hardcore. Personally, I don't think the content is well tailored to a general audience, but that's a seperate point.

Yeah that always seemed like a gap in the grand scheme and Shift does seem to have a presense on the high street (and in comic shops). The question is of course whether getting it out there translates to getting it in folks hands. The £4.99 price point feels much closer to what's needed so good luck to the folks involved.

if this does help maybe it will move the possiblity of an issue 2 closer to reality - though I've still not heard anything about that yet.

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 11 June, 2021, 06:46:47 AM
Interesting - Spacewarp has teamed up with Shift (such a great comic check it out) to produce a newstand edition.

https://theshift.store/collections/shift-comic-anthology-issues-1-5/products/shift-presents-two-pack (https://theshift.store/collections/shift-comic-anthology-issues-1-5/products/shift-presents-two-pack)

So Major Rakhana has a modest bra cup size, eh?

Quote from: Link Prime on 14 June, 2021, 11:33:19 AM

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 11 June, 2021, 06:46:47 AM
Interesting - Spacewarp has teamed up with Shift (such a great comic check it out) to produce a newstand edition.

https://theshift.store/collections/shift-comic-anthology-issues-1-5/products/shift-presents-two-pack (https://theshift.store/collections/shift-comic-anthology-issues-1-5/products/shift-presents-two-pack)

So Major Rakhana has a modest bra cup size, eh?

what?

But guys someone DID rip Pat Mills off with Return of Rico

now what was this shameless copycats name?

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BXstYA7wXPA/VyF8B4RyFQI/AAAAAAAAPrE/JowAFCpm5ScCzVwgAcQapVhXIx9RsHIbQCCo/s1600/RCO083.jpg)

oh.....ohhhhhhhh

Quote from: judgeurko on 15 June, 2021, 08:17:56 AM

Quote from: Link Prime on 14 June, 2021, 11:33:19 AM

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 11 June, 2021, 06:46:47 AM
Interesting - Spacewarp has teamed up with Shift (such a great comic check it out) to produce a newstand edition.

https://theshift.store/collections/shift-comic-anthology-issues-1-5/products/shift-presents-two-pack (https://theshift.store/collections/shift-comic-anthology-issues-1-5/products/shift-presents-two-pack)

So Major Rakhana has a modest bra cup size, eh?

what?

Try reading her name in an Australian accent.

I dunno lads, I may have to completely re-evaluate everything I thought I knew about the Bazooka Jules comic too.

Quote from: Link Prime on 15 June, 2021, 11:25:37 AM

Quote from: judgeurko on 15 June, 2021, 08:17:56 AM

Quote from: Link Prime on 14 June, 2021, 11:33:19 AM

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 11 June, 2021, 06:46:47 AM
Interesting - Spacewarp has teamed up with Shift (such a great comic check it out) to produce a newstand edition.

https://theshift.store/collections/shift-comic-anthology-issues-1-5/products/shift-presents-two-pack (https://theshift.store/collections/shift-comic-anthology-issues-1-5/products/shift-presents-two-pack)

So Major Rakhana has a modest bra cup size, eh?

what?

Try reading her name in an Australian accent.

I dunno lads, I may have to completely re-evaluate everything I thought I knew about the Bazooka Jules comic too.

oh dear, i guess it is aimed at 13 year old boys?

Ick.

Googled Bazooka Jules and yeah, that's not the sort of comic that does the perception of comic readers any favours.
If that's true about Major Rakhana - what a disappointment. I enjoyed Brawler, but that's dire.

Bazooka Jules was originally published in 2001 when That Sort Of Thing was just fine. Lad culture still riding high. As I recall "Jules" was Googe's partner's name? To me she's a mix of Tank Girl, Sailor Moon & the "Good Girl" pinup.

Not sure it was ever really fine. But, hey: puns. In 2021, though, it's pathetic and icky. Very disappointing from a Shift publication.

Just to clarify; I never genuinely suggested that it's intended to be read as "Major Rack on her", t'was just that my own puerile mind jumped to that mildly amusing conclusion.

Will keep the innuendo commentaries strictly alluding to demonic dildos for the remainder of '21.

Surely "Major Rakhana"/ "Major Arcana" as in the tarot?

SBT

Pat has been interviewed on John Siuntres' WordBalloon podcast. Not listened yet but link is here (https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/pat-mills-spacewarp-opens-new-sci-fi-possibilities/id207700416?i=1000528254922)

QuoteThe Dean Of British Sci-Fi has started SpaceWarp an incredible Sci-Fi Anthology . WE discuss the features within, and talk about the current British comics scene along with looking back at his 2000AD comics, a healthy look at the twisted "mean girls" history of Girls British comics , plus Pat teases some new projects comic this fall.

If you get the new "pocket money" version via the Shift website or "get my comics" site it will come with a free print of the new cover for £4.99 +P&P

I just got the Shift Presents: Spacewarp special as it's now appeared on the newsstands. And, erm...blimey, that's certainly a thing, isn't it.

I'd kind of had my doubts about this project ever since I heard it would be Mills writing every single story, and having now read it I think that doubt was entirely justified.

I am bemused by Mills' continued insistence that this would be aimed the fabled kids demographic because I even though I'm pushing the big four oh, I can see that there's very little in this a young person is going to be arsed about. Modern kids aren't going to want to read a grim n' gritty black and white comic featuring rehashes of Mills concepts from forty years ago (I can see bits of Nemesis, bits of ABC Warriors, etc in there), and I sincerely doubt the teenage market will buy into it either just because it mentions Instagram occasionally. If Mills thinks that's his audience he's fooling himself, the only people that will have any interest in this are the aging retro comics crowd like ourselves.

Their are wider problems with the broader concept behind the shared universe idea, which is both poorly explained and largely impenetrable. This desperately needed an independent editor to help shape the overall idea into something more coherent, but Mills' arrogance and resistance to anyone else interfering with his glorious vision has clearly precluded that. The fact that Mills in his role as co-editor is not prepared to risk any other writing talent watering down any of his wonderful ideas just makes it feel like a weird vanity project rather than a serious attempt to launch a new comic.

The one real strength is in the art, and there is some really good work in this from artists I'd like to see develop on other projects(Ade Hughes' artwork on the SF1 strip in particular is outstanding, some real John Hicklenton vibes), but I think this one is sadly a complete dead end. Should've called it Pat's Folly.

I pretty much agree. It's looks fantastic, but is nowhere near something that modern kids will want. It's confusing as fuck, too. If we're lucky we'll get an issue every two years.

It's one of those things I really wanted to enjoy more than I actually did. I was astounded at the complexity of it after what was teased by Pat.

The world moves on, but not all of its inhabitants do. Similar vibes in the Regened threads, really, with people baffled that 2000 AD's approach to today's young person demographic isn't identical to the material they themselves enjoyed decades ago.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 04 November, 2021, 11:39:07 AM
The world moves on, but not all of its inhabitants do. Similar vibes in the Regened threads, really, with people baffled that 2000 AD's approach to today's young person demographic isn't identical to the material they themselves enjoyed decades ago.

Exactly, and all credit to Rebellion, who have clearly worked really hard to try and produce the kind of comics kids might actually want to read. I feel like Pat really should really have learnt something from their approach from before launching into this project, instead of just assuming that he knew best, and that what worked in the seventies and eighties would still apply.

I think Spacewarp would have been more interesting if it had been Pat providing the shared universe concept, then letting creative teams do their thing, with perhaps a couple of key strips from him along with editorial input.

As it is, it's an anthology comic with none of the strengths of an anthology comic (different creative teams bringing different tones and approaches etc.) and all the weaknesses of Mills' modern work so you end up with a series of "and now for something *completely* different!" wee episodes of each story that all end up feeling very similar, and no realistic prospect of them going beyond this first issue. I wouldn't be surprised if one or two strips maybe got separate releases, or if we got at least another issue of Spacewarp at some point, but it's clearly not going to be hitting a regular release schedule anytime soon, and certainly not at the pace it would need to to sustain interest in bite-size episodes. 

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 04 November, 2021, 11:39:07 AM
The world moves on, but not all of its inhabitants do. Similar vibes in the Regened threads, really, with people baffled that 2000 AD's approach to today's young person demographic isn't identical to the material they themselves enjoyed decades ago.

& it is equally baffling given that approach that 2000AD expects new young readers to then start reading the standard prog.

Quote from: judgeurko on 04 November, 2021, 01:52:24 PM

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 04 November, 2021, 11:39:07 AM
The world moves on, but not all of its inhabitants do. Similar vibes in the Regened threads, really, with people baffled that 2000 AD's approach to today's young person demographic isn't identical to the material they themselves enjoyed decades ago.

& it is equally baffling given that approach that 2000AD expects new young readers to then start reading the standard prog.

Where exactly has this been stated anywhere?

Quote from: judgeurko on 04 November, 2021, 01:52:24 PM& it is equally baffling given that approach that 2000AD expects new young readers to then start reading the standard prog.

Given that 2000 AD people haven't outright stated what the strategy is, there's no way of knowing for sure. However, from what we can see the company actually doing, it doesn't appear to expect young readers to read the standard Prog: it appears to be using Regened as the equivalent of a quarterly special that acts as an entry point for young readers to then buy collected editions. (Some Regened strips then enter the Prog to more rapidly create content for said collections.)

As those in publishing will be well aware, the newsstand isn't where the money is these days: the trades are. Children's GNs are selling really well in some cases, far beyond 'grown up' comics collections.

Quote from: judgeurko on 04 November, 2021, 01:52:24 PM
& it is equally baffling given that approach that 2000AD expects new young readers to then start reading the standard prog.

Except that's not the approach... as has been explained quite a few times, usually by me.

The modern all-age/YA audience is not particularly enamoured of the weekly anthology format. They do, however, buy OGNs and TPBs in extraordinary numbers. The most recent volume of Dogman shifted something insane like 900,000 copies in its first three months of sale.

So... think of the Regened issues as a quarterly 'sampler' for the target audience. The breakout hits go on to a full series, which then gets bundled up into a TPB under the Regened imprint and flogged to the kids in their vastly preferred format.

I'm not saying that definitely is Rebellion's strategy — I don't have any inside info. However, that's certainly what it looks like, and it makes a lot of sense.

(Edit to add: Gah! Ninja-ed by IP.)

And there was me trying to save you typing all that out again, Jim. ;)

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 04 November, 2021, 02:05:19 PM
And there was me trying to save you typing all that out again, Jim. ;)

The important thing is that the commenter got to turn the conversation into a swipe at Regened, which is a subject that hardly ever comes up for discussion.

Slight confusion - Is 'Shift presents: Spacewarp' the same material as 'Spacewarp 1'? If it is the same contents; what's the deal here? (Also, what happened to 'Spacewarp 2'?)

It's a newsstand format edition, with a better cover, bonus one-page strip and much lower price.

Hopefully enough to cover the cost of paying the artist's twice for pages Mills had them redo because they weren't quite up to his snuff. (I'm assuming he's paying them for this "research", because he's got strong morals on that subject.)

*sad face*

i don't know what spacewarp's frequency is supposed to be but it is certainly going to be considerably less than annual. the target market are probably going to have one episode to enjoy during their childhood - not exactly reeled in by schedule, loyalty or cliffhangers. this is also a problem with the quarterly regened and its self-contained stories.
my child is a fan of phoenix. and she's not alone - it has been going for many years now and keeps up an astonishingly high quality weekly schedule. kids want to know what happens NEXT. she is not at all interested in regened, i am sorry to say. and, personally, for many other reasons, i wouldn't push spacewarp in her direction.

doesn't phoenix and its longevity pretty much show that a significant number of children do still enjoy a weekly anthology comic?

It's hard to say. None of mini-IP's friends (7–8) read The Phoenix. I think one other kid in her class gets The Beano. I've no idea how representative this sample would be, but I live in a fairly well-off area, and so it's not income stopping more parents buying comics for their kids.

From what I can tell, both of the mentioned publications are sustainable and likely profitable. But I can't imagine either is in any way indicative of a broader trend that can be capitalised on. By contrast, trade collections can sometimes sell like hot cakes.

As for Regened, frequency is a problem, but then that's why Rebellion's going down the route it is, and issuing collections. (And I suspect Monster Fun will mostly—like The Beano—be self-contained, so what comes next isn't a concern.) Spacewarp, though: yeah. Quarterly is really pushing it. An annual (or 'less than annual') is not going to be something kids care about.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 04 November, 2021, 08:04:26 PMFrom what I can tell, both of the mentioned publications are sustainable and likely profitable. But I can't imagine either is in any way indicative of a broader trend that can be capitalised on. By contrast, trade collections can sometimes sell like hot cakes.

I'm not very familiar with the model The Phoenix is using, but as far as I can see it's had an absolute fuckload of money sunk into it for a lot of years until it's broadly sustainable on a subscription model, with high street sales being gravy on the top...

Plus the collections. It's notable that the publisher is switching format there too. Risking ire of idiots shopping on Amazon, Bunny vs Monkey has moved to the same size as Dogman. Looshkin is doing the same. WAY more pages. Sturdier books less prone to damage. Nice. (I do wish the Jamie Smart stuff came out in HC though—which Dogman does. I'd happily buy those for my own shelves.)

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 05 November, 2021, 09:17:55 AM
Plus the collections. It's notable that the publisher is switching format there too. Risking ire of idiots shopping on Amazon, Bunny vs Monkey has moved to the same size as Dogman. Looshkin is doing the same. WAY more pages. Sturdier books less prone to damage. Nice. (I do wish the Jamie Smart stuff came out in HC though—which Dogman does. I'd happily buy those for my own shelves.)

The interesting one with the Dogman format is Mega Robo Bros (a personal fav) a more action adventure story is also moving to that format and Mega Robo Bros feels more like a Regened story - its bloody brilliant for those who fancy checking good all ages comics out. I'm also getting a sense that other stories are moving that way.

Strips like 'I hate pixies' have had a 'border' image at the bottom of the page and I wondered (???) is that preparitory formating?

So I'm guessing, given the rate the BvsM volumes have been coming out and different strips moving into that format that they have been a success and this will be something I'm sure Rebellion will be keeping an eye on.

Yeah—that's the format kids really like. It represents great value, it's ideal for smaller hands, and the books are less likely to get damaged than flimsy trades. As I understand it, that's where all the Phoenix stuff is heading.

Even Marvel are switching to that format. I got a recent omnibus of Moon Girl & Devil Dinosaur in that size which collected two of the usual size trades.

On the subject of who buys The Phoenix, in my experience it seems to only be parents who are into comics who are aware of it. Kids love it once they read it, but far too few will ever see a copy.

and yet. and yet. and yet. issue 514 has just come out.

Because it's—currently—still commercially viable to sell floppies that are then compiled into more lucrative collections. But note how Image recently said it wouldn't be taking comics to second prints now. Things are changing. Heck, the UK newsstand alone should be evidence of that. (Still, there has been a sort of revival in comics of late, so perhaps that uptick can continue. But it does feel like the same kind of uptick vinyl fetishists bang on about, which is like that little upward lip at the end of a ski jump.)

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 05 November, 2021, 02:17:08 PM
But note how Image recently said it wouldn't be taking comics to second prints now.

Paper shortage. It's really grim in periodical publishing right now.

Paper shortage, yeah, but that means you prioritise. Multiple prints of monthlies don't win out.

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 05 November, 2021, 06:44:37 PM

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 05 November, 2021, 02:17:08 PM
But note how Image recently said it wouldn't be taking comics to second prints now.

Paper shortage. It's really grim in periodical publishing right now.

(forgive me if you're implying this and all I'm doing is restating the same thing with a slightly differen emphasis)

I'm guessing this is much more to do with the rise in paper costs due to shortages than it being a simple matter of there being not as much paper; it's probably lot less economically viable to do the small numbers of a second print run than it used to be.

Pat Mills has said on Twitter that Spacewarp 2 has an ETA of 6 months until it's release, but don't hold your breath on this

All those non-existent 10 year-olds on Twitter will be agog at this news.

Be fair, Gordon: it's perfectly standard between issues of a comic to wait a mere *checks notes* four... years...

Yeah. My 9yo gets antsy when her Phoenix is a day late.

Well, you have to admire his sticktoitiveness, I guess.

Talking of the Phoenix, mini-Solo greatly enjoyed their April Fools issue. 2000 AD's long-running Regened gag usurps it, though, in terms of dedication to the bit.

Shurely there's come mileage to be had blaming the Spacewarp delays on some kind of wormhole fiasco? (And if Pat uses my great idea, I'd also like to be recompensed for the research I did. Ten quid should cover it.)

Ian Ashcroft's artwork for the Hellbreaker story, which he updates regularly on his Patron & Facebook pages is looking really nice. But he is working slowly on this as he has a normal job & only has limited time to work on this

The important question is, will this be available as an NFT?  And with some AI art content?

(https://i.imgur.com/gxHAYcW.png)

Quote from: Funt Solo on 09 April, 2024, 07:06:18 PMTalking of the Phoenix, mini-Solo greatly enjoyed their April Fools issue.

The Spoons issue last year was a masterstroke. Mini-IP was young enough that it did actually catch her out. She was ready for this year's gag, but appreciated their dedication to all things egg. I bloody love that comic. During the rare occasions I get to see it. (Mini-IP sometimes takes pity on me and suggests I read Bunny vs Monkey or something. But I haven't read No Country in weeks now.)

I hadn't heard of that, not having sprogs myself, but I've just looked it up.  Genius!

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 09 April, 2024, 10:17:44 PM

Quote from: Funt Solo on 09 April, 2024, 07:06:18 PMTalking of the Phoenix, mini-Solo greatly enjoyed their April Fools issue.

The Spoons issue last year was a masterstroke. Mini-IP was young enough that it did actually catch her out. She was ready for this year's gag, but appreciated their dedication to all things egg. I bloody love that comic. During the rare occasions I get to see it. (Mini-IP sometimes takes pity on me and suggests I read Bunny vs Monkey or something. But I haven't read No Country in weeks now.)

Yep continues to be a delight. No Country is very much on formand continues to be brilliant. I thought the egg gag was a little too close to Spoons Monthly BUT given that was pure fried comedy good I can forgive them!

The boy is getting to an age where he doesn't read it with quite the same gusto as before. The Girl long since stopped. But when the time comes I'll be carrying on the subscription cos I love it too!

Lets do the spacewarp again, mmm not sure maybe or just no

If nothing else, interesting to see the gulf in a (weekly) comic ten-year-olds are excited about reading (to the degree there's even an annual convention now, along with regular video drawalong sessions with the likes of Jess Bradley and Jamie Smart) and (a very irregular) one that's ostensibly aimed at the same age bracket, but really feels like it's aimed at people who were ten somewhere between 1976 and 1983.

I'm sure Spacewarp has its fans, and I'm all for more comics. But perhaps it's not a great idea to bang on about it being some kind of panacea to the country's shortfall in children's comics, given that it failed to hit an affordable price point and disappeared for four years. (I've no idea whether the content struck a chord with kids. I've no way of knowing that for sure.)

Kids generally want something that's new for there own generation. Isn't that what attracted youngsters to 2000AD and Action back when they came out? They were kicking against the the previous generations stuffy old comics. Or at least that's the narrative as told by Pat Mills and others involved at the time.

With first hand experience of that, why would Pat Mills now think that kids would want to revert back to the older style.

Spacewarp looks like it would have far more appeal to old folk who don't get on with modern comics, are big Pat Mill's fans and are nostalgic for early 2000AD. Not many 10 year olds would fit in this category.

It's like trying to convince your kids that they should be listening to your Jethro Tull records instead of that K-pop noise.

Isn't his argument that comics are now too middle class and that the industry has given up, and that he has the tools and knowledge to unlock comics for a new generation of working-class kids, or something like that?

I mean, he's not wrong in that comics are no longer a mass-market concern. And their circulations have dropped to the point they are out of reach of many families. But then a £10 Spacewarp is hardly fighting against that particular problem. Which leaves, I dunno, attitude? But if people have been reading The Phoenix and even the modern Beano and arguing that it's far too 'safe', I'm not sure they've been paying attention.

Half the time, old men just appear to be rallying against the increased inclusion (and the drop in bullying) in modern comics, and ignoring all the other changes that chime with the current generation. (I even see people arguing that modern cartoons aren't allowed to be rude and anarchic. And my response is: have you read Looshkin?)

"Comics are too middle-class now!" complains man...

...from his ex-pat gated community home in Spain.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 10 April, 2024, 11:31:54 AMHalf the time, old men just appear to be rallying against the increased inclusion (and the drop in bullying) in modern comics, and ignoring all the other changes that chime with the current generation. (I even see people arguing that modern cartoons aren't allowed to be rude and anarchic. And my response is: have you read Looshkin?)

That's a point of view that has alwayed annoys me as well, and though some of it is fairly dated now Horrid Henry is much more of a s**t than Dennis The Menace ever was!

I'm not familiar with Horrid Henry. Mini-IP does have some pre-refresh Dennis books that are fairly horrible though. I much prefer the current take on him and Walter, where Dennis is streetwise and Walter is a fun-killing wannabe authoritarian, rather than Dennis kicking the shit out of anyone who is perceived to be 'girly' and effeminate. The dynamic now feels much smarter and has radically reduced 'othering'. (The comic as a whole has also benefited from getting over its 'girls – URGH' framing.)

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 10 April, 2024, 05:02:19 PMI'm not familiar with Horrid Henry. Mini-IP does have some pre-refresh Dennis books that are fairly horrible though. I much prefer the current take on him and Walter, where Dennis is streetwise and Walter is a fun-killing wannabe authoritarian, rather than Dennis kicking the shit out of anyone who is perceived to be 'girly' and effeminate. The dynamic now feels much smarter and has radically reduced 'othering'. (The comic as a whole has also benefited from getting over its 'girls – URGH' framing.)

Perhaps I'm looking at it through rose tinted glasses, and I don't remember Dennis being that violent towards Walter, but I really fricking hate Horrid Henry, I had to read it to my godchildren and I feel he might be the fictional character I despise the most!*

*Well, when it comes to mainstream kids fare, anyway.

Quote from: BadlyDrawnKano on 10 April, 2024, 05:29:16 PM

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 10 April, 2024, 05:02:19 PMI'm not familiar with Horrid Henry. Mini-IP does have some pre-refresh Dennis books that are fairly horrible though. I much prefer the current take on him and Walter, where Dennis is streetwise and Walter is a fun-killing wannabe authoritarian, rather than Dennis kicking the shit out of anyone who is perceived to be 'girly' and effeminate. The dynamic now feels much smarter and has radically reduced 'othering'. (The comic as a whole has also benefited from getting over its 'girls – URGH' framing.)

Perhaps I'm looking at it through rose tinted glasses, and I don't remember Dennis being that violent towards Walter, but I really fricking hate Horrid Henry, I had to read it to my godchildren and I feel he might be the fictional character I despise the most!*

*Well, when it comes to mainstream kids fare, anyway.

Frustratingly DC Thompson have had all of their comics removed from a popular blog so I was unable to check to see if I was wrong or not, but I did manage to track down the 1980 annual and I do see your point. It's not quite as brutal as I was worried it might be, but Gnasher bites one of Walter's friends and Dennis soaks them in lemonade, and there's some other moments like that which make it a bit more unpleasant than I'd remembered.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 10 April, 2024, 11:31:54 AMI mean, he's not wrong in that comics are no longer a mass-market concern.

Seems to me that -- just like the steam train -- comics have had their time and will never be mainstream again.

When I was a kid, movies and action-packed TV shows were occasional treats -- so we took our in-between hits of cinematic excitement in the form of the printed picture strip.  When VHS tapes and home computer games came along, that all changed.  Replaced by visceral excitement on-demand.

It's no wonder that kids today ignore comics; they can already interact in 3D worlds where the Hulk trashes a city or aliens shoot at them, in a far more immersive way than a sequence of flat images can.

Comic book market size in 2023 USD 16.05 billion. Not as much as video games and movies, but not to be sniffed at.

Quote from: Funt Solo on 21 April, 2024, 02:26:43 AMComic book market size in 2023 USD 16.05 billion. Not as much as video games and movies, but not to be sniffed at.

Wow -- that's more than I was expecting.  Thanks for that info, Funt.

From what I can see, North America is about USD 6 billion (https://www.cognitivemarketresearch.com/comic-book-market-report) of that USD 16 billion figure.  Given a 600 million population (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America) and extrapolating from the (surprising) statistic that 37% of US adults say they read comics at least once a year (https://www.statista.com/statistics/943111/comic-book-reading-frequency-us/#:~:text=This%20statistic%20shows%20the%20frequency,never%20read%20a%20comic%20book.), we're probably looking at a mean average annual spend of USD 27 per reader.  I'd imagine that about 10% of the readership are whales accounting for half the sales, which would lower the mode to probably around USD 15.

(That 37% figure is far higher than I imagined, even for the US.  Nice to see it's not quite as bleak as it seems.)

I should also note that it's not the medium that's in danger of extinction – it's the delivery method. One line, I quite often see old farts moaning about how kids don't read these days. I can only go by mine and her friends, but they read loads. However, almost none of them read comics. And very, very few have a regular order for one of the few newsstand publications remaining for children (be they comics or magazines).

The habits are what's shifted. A generation of parents never themselves had the comics habit and so have not passed it on. Many who pick it up again (most notably through The Phoenix's six for a quid offer) still find it effective with a certain cohort (roughly, 6–10). But mostly, kids are reading collected editions.

The sad thing there is this erodes that very British notion of the comics anthology. So Dog Man is huge. Some Marvel books do well. Manga clicks with teens. And it was wonderful to hear Jamie Smart has now sold more than a MILLION books at his current publisher. What's in danger of winking out of existence is the comic with a whole bunch of different things to discover. But then that's the case in media more widely. People these days head immediately to what they think they want or need. There's little time (bar, perhaps in music streaming) for a mix of things they might discover, based on broader interest.

In other words, it's not just newsstand comics that are heading to oblivion, but also things like newsstand magazines and linear broadcast television. Comics seem to slot into that change as much as anything. (And to wrench that back to the subject, that makes Spacewarp an even tougher sell outside of the nostalgia market.)