From 2Thou:
"And some of them are stars".
The Ratwar revelation
Souster at Dan Tanna.
"Because I hate you".
The end of Killing Time.
Non 2Thou:
"I already did it 35 minutes ago".
From GM's Arkham Asylum: "And the dollhouse LOOKS AT ME" (ages since I read it).
Alec reuniting with Abby in Swamp Thing.
Maricela getting shot in "Human Disatrophism".
final image of Zsasz's with chiller smile in Batman: The Last Arkham
Judge Dredd and Johnny Alpha's final image "Who the hell's gonna mess with us?"
Griffin's rape by Mr Hyde in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Volume II
Arrives of The Governor's army in Walking Dead
V for Vendetta - 'Welcome home, Evey.'
Top Ten - 'Hello. I'm the Rumour.'
LOEG I - The first time we see Moriarty's airship break through the clouds.
BPRD Black Flame - When the Black Flame stares despondently down at an injured Abe, and says, '...I think I made a mistake.' Cue double-page spread of city-sized Lovecraftian beastie roaring out of the cave toward civilisation.
Kingdom - 'Hello Stars. Gene was named after one of you.'
Dredd: Bloodline - And he knows. And he smiles. And he says 'I am the future.'
And most of those already said by Godders.
"Because I hate you." is the absolute number one ever.
"My parents taught me a different lesson" from DKR (and that panel with that punch)
"Just to feel something" from Arkham Asylum- seriously disturbing scene.
"I did it 35 minutes ago."
"This is what Superman feels like all the time" (paraphrasing a bit I think) from JLA World War III.
From All-Star Superman: "You're much stronger than you think you are" and the entire fight with Luthor at the end.
Quote from: Roger Godpleton on 11 September, 2009, 04:03:08 PM
From All-Star Superman: "You're much stronger than you think you are" and the entire fight with Luthor at the end.
YES! I forgot about that- what an utterly
great line! As Morrison did time and again in that series, he nailed what Superman is with a few choice words. Good call.
That bit in Zenith..."get me out of this Eddie." Or something like that. It exposed Zen for what he was...all about the image and laking balls!
A stupid one, but just thinking about it's got me welling up. When Chopper turns back to pick up Yakamoto. Now that's surfing!
"You don't understand. I'm not locked up in here with you."
"I am hope."
About the third last panel of Akira where they're driving off through the tunnel.
Deaths Head 2-"Hi, Honey. I'm homicidal!"
Dredds CAP box speech in the last page of "America".
The ending of the pirate sub-plot in "Watchmen".
"Gaze into the fist of Dredd."
"When someone calls on the law for help, be they alien, human, mutie or cyborg, the law cannot turn a blind eye...and I AM THE LAW!"
and (shamefully) - where is "because I hate you" from? (I'm sure I know, I'm just a little drunk right now).
Strontium Dog - Rage.
You are a terrible person.
My FIRST one (i.e. the one I can remember right now, not necessarily the biggest or best) is oddly enough a Garth Ennis penned Dredd line, from Helter Skelter. Apologies if I mis-quote.
QuoteDREDD: "You called us Judges a privileged elite, Ms Kenzie. You're right. We are an elite. There is a privilege. I've told you what it is twice now."
KENZIE: "You're a citizen of Mega-City One...."
DREDD: "...and I'm sworn to protect you."
Whatever you feel about the man's writing, sometime he really COULD make the hairs stand up on your neck.
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 11 September, 2009, 10:00:13 PM
My FIRST one (i.e. the one I can remember right now, not necessarily the biggest or best) is oddly enough a Garth Ennis penned Dredd line, from Helter Skelter. Apologies if I mis-quote.
QuoteDREDD: "You called us Judges a privileged elite, Ms Kenzie. You're right. We are an elite. There is a privilege. I've told you what it is twice now."
KENZIE: "You're a citizen of Mega-City One...."
DREDD: "...and I'm sworn to protect you."
Whatever you feel about the man's writing, sometime he really COULD make the hairs stand up on your neck.
Agreed. Who says only Wagner understands Dredd? That's a great line that sums up Dredd perfectly.
Quote from: Roger Godpleton on 11 September, 2009, 09:48:35 PM
Strontium Dog - Rage.
You are a terrible person.
Thanks, and yes I am - I'll go and punish myself straight away.
Swamp Thing: several moments from the climax of American Gothic stand out, but right now the bit where the Spectre, Heaven's big hitter. gets spat out of the Dark like a rag doll is doing it for me,
That and "Where is evil in all the wood?".
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c118/button71/dyingampersand.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c118/button71/bornagain.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c118/button71/batman.jpg)
All of the Love & Rockets stories where Izzy talks to the Devil (or whoever it is). They really cast a pall over the whole strip as every event is called into question.
Staying with Los Bros, after reading Beto's Speak of the Devil it was about 6 months before I read anything else by my favourite cartoonist because it was that disturbing.
Quote from: Buttonman on 11 September, 2009, 10:32:50 PM
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c118/button71/dyingampersand.jpg)
Arh man that scene is just amazing. I've never read any 'Y' mainly cos it started when I was all but out of comics and never caught up with it. 'Comics should be good' ran this entire scene as one of it 'Cool moments' and even without the context and attachment developed over the previous 59 issues that bit alone in isolation almost made me blub like a child at my office desk when I read it. So moving.
The last two or three pages of Transmetropolitan. Particularly Spider's last words. Cried like a baby, grinned like a moron.
Konstantin: "The only way you'll have a chance against me is if you shoot me in the back and we both know the Hero of the Romanovs hasn't got the stomach for that."
Dante: "Heroes be damned,"
"Because I hate you."
Quote from: Gavin_Leahy on 12 September, 2009, 09:49:41 AM
Konstantin: "The only way you'll have a chance against me is if you shoot me in the back and we both know the Hero of the Romanovs hasn't got the stomach for that."
Dante: "Heroes be damned,"
And after at Konstantin's funeral when Dmitri says that Konstantin showed them what it took to be a true Romanov and that horrible, terrifyingly smug grin on Dante's face. I was really worried he'd been completely corrupted by them.
Saint of killers: Preacher-'There's no meaner in hell-go look'
Dredd's 'Showbusiness' speech in America
'And it's never over.' from Horror by Kieren Gillan and Paul J holden.
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 12 September, 2009, 10:39:11 AM
Quote from: Gavin_Leahy on 12 September, 2009, 09:49:41 AM
Konstantin: "The only way you'll have a chance against me is if you shoot me in the back and we both know the Hero of the Romanovs hasn't got the stomach for that."
Dante: "Heroes be damned,"
And after at Konstantin's funeral when Dmitri says that Konstantin showed them what it took to be a true Romanov and that horrible, terrifyingly smug grin on Dante's face. I was really worried he'd been completely corrupted by them.
the start of Tsars War, first time you saw Dante in battlefield!
When Dredd killed Chief Judge Griffin. :'(
Goosebumps of a sort (and ties in with the scary comic thread too), but in Something Wicked (#3 I think...could be #2) there's a nasty little story about a rambler who stumbles up on something...the last panel in that one actually made me pause!
From what I remember, this was the first ever comic book moment to give me actual goosebumps:
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p147/the_legendary_shark/dredd_alone.jpg)
Even though I wasn't actually a fan of the series, the page turn reveal in Sandman #7, after Destiny has destroyed Morpheus' ruby, is breath-taking. I was alone in my room in a hall of residence when I read that issue, and I actually remember exclaiming aloud "Fuck me" and putting the comic down for a minute before continuing.
Cheers!
Jim
Sandman, (once it gets into gear) is possibly the best comic you're ever going to read
So many "goosebump" moments
It's been criticized an awful lot for being pretentious, in a nerdy goth way ,
But,as comics go.... i...deep breath,,, think it's better than Watchmen
there.. i said it
caveat--2nd Favorite is Love and Rockets
Sandman got me reading American comics. I'd loved Preacher of course but that was as far as it went with me until I got hold of the first Sandman arc. From reading Sandman I moved on to Lucifer and became fascinated with the Vertigo magic/horror titles. Swamp Thing, Hellblazer, House Of Mystery, Madame Xanadu, Books of Magic. I'm picking them all up in trades but I'm holding off on reading some of the later ones. I'm kind of interested in reading them in roughly chronological order. I realise that inter-title continuty is looser in these books than the more mainstream superhero titles but I like the idea of seeing the range evolve over the years. The rather erratic system DC has for releasing these things is slowing down the plan somewhat though.
But yes, Sandman. More goosebumps than you can shake a stick at. My particular favourite is the issue set in a cafe where the staff and diners all go completely insane over the course of about a day, and all pretence of civilization is stripped from them. The series explored much wider and more epic themes as it developed but that story, run very early on in the comcs life, was the one where Gaiman really showed what the title was capable of.
Quote from: johnnystress on 13 September, 2009, 02:12:24 AM
Sandman, (once it gets into gear) is possibly the best comic you're ever going to read
Really? I stuck it for about thirty issues before concluding that the Emperor was most definitely naked.
Cheers
Jim
Ace Garp taking the Night Light Flight. It was one of my first progs (if not THE first) and i didn't know the characters, but it still had a massive impact.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 13 September, 2009, 10:53:08 AM
Quote from: johnnystress on 13 September, 2009, 02:12:24 AM
Sandman, (once it gets into gear) is possibly the best comic you're ever going to read
Really? I stuck it for about thirty issues before concluding that the Emperor was most definitely naked.
There are definitely bits where it meanders and your goth-whimsy threshold has to be reasonably high but I'd definitely recommend giving the whole lot another shot. My own favourite is the Brief Lives storyline which ended around #50.
Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it yet, but the Megazine Dredd one-off "My Beatiful Career" never fails to send a chill up my spine. The sight of a guy who's been beaten up by Judge Cadets for years sobbing in the shadows and asking, "who's going to employ me now?" is right up there with "because I hate you" as a truly classic 2000ad moment. There's even a little bit of humanity from Dredd at the end, too.
Quote from: The Cosh on 13 September, 2009, 12:40:28 PM
There are definitely bits where it meanders and your goth-whimsy threshold has to be reasonably high but I'd definitely recommend giving the whole lot another shot. My own favourite is the Brief Lives storyline which ended around #50.
Agreed. You kind of have to be able to NOT want to stab a goth on sight, but if you're one of those rare creatures it's full of goosebumps and they only get more common, more goosey and more bumpy as the series continues.
The final storyline, "The Wake" was chock full of goosey goodness. My favourite bit being a very understated DC universe line - Superman and Batman are present, in their dreams naturally. Batman is in his costume, mask on - Supes however is Clark Kent - a nice simple, almost throwaway reference to Bruce Wayne being the mask and Batman being the real man. One panel, not overstated and almost instantly deflated by John Constantine remarking to some shadowy Men-In-Black types I should probably have recognised - "Nice coats".
Quotesome shadowy Men-In-Black types I should probably have recognised - "Nice coats".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trenchcoat_Brigade
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 13 September, 2009, 10:00:57 PM
Agreed. You kind of have to be able to NOT want to stab a goth on sight, but if you're one of those rare creatures it's full of goosebumps and they only get more common, more goosey and more bumpy as the series continues.
Given that I am, officially, as Goth As Fuck, and at the time was a university-attending, literature-studying comic reader, I was, presumably, as close to Sandman's ideal demographic as it was humanly possible to get. I still think 30 issues is long enough to give a series to 'get going', don't you?
Cheers
Jim
Off the top of my head:
"For freedom! For justice! For Mega-City One!"
"Hello, Hannah. We haven't been introduced yet, but I'm Jenny's special new friend."
"Because I hate you." (Which, to my great shame, I only read for the first time this afternoon.)
"I owe you pissant cocksucking white trash sons of bitches all the hurt in the goddamn world."
And that bit at the end of Sandman book 8, where the funeral procession goes by and a wave of nausea goes over you. In Jim's case, that would probably be because he's just had to read 8 books of a comic he doesn't like.
The Judges executing Sov collaborators in the Apocalypse War. Such a shockingly cold moment it sent shivers down my spine.
Toy not quite managing to tell Halo how she really feels. "Sure. Best friends. That's what I meant."
Dante stabbing the Tsar.
mentioned it onother threads but the bit in total war ...a tiny panel with a mother cradling her dead infant "they killed my baby" wagner and flint you scarred me...in a good way...
oh and billy kincaid's final frame in spawn when he was strung up he screamed and screamed and screamed.... comics really grew up then for me
The Krazy Kat strip where Ignatz's wife(?) becomes pregnant and the three main characters all share a celebratory smoke. Just a beautiful scene.
[spoiler]Zenith apparently sacrificing himself but only to be dashed later when revealed it was Vertex[/spoiler]
V
Charlie's War book one, where they go over the top. Ginger's quote stands out for me: "If hell is worse than this I'd better start mending me ways!"
[spoiler]and the other bit where one of Charlie's unit gets caught in the barbed wire and is screaming "They Lied!" before being ripped to bits by a machine gun. Have I remembered that correctly?[/spoiler]
Quote from: Roger Godpleton on 11 September, 2009, 03:17:41 PM"I already did it 35 minutes ago".
For Stevie it's gotta be Oymandias' triumphant reiteration of, "I DID IT!"
It feels as if you're in the very same room.
Quote from: Dandontdare on 11 September, 2009, 10:08:49 PM
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 11 September, 2009, 10:00:13 PM
My FIRST one (i.e. the one I can remember right now, not necessarily the biggest or best) is oddly enough a Garth Ennis penned Dredd line, from Helter Skelter...
Agreed. Who says only Wagner understands Dredd? That's a great line that sums up Dredd perfectly.
Snap. The line that does it for me, that succinctly encapsulates how spot on Ennis gets the character is at the end of the first episode:"Citizen Darien Kenzie -- take my hand if you want to live."
Others moments immediately springing to mind:
Howler quite literally wiping the floor with Dredd. Got to be the most brutally-realised smack down I've ever seen in a comic. You can feel
every bruise form. Hear
each bone snap."I am such a one as thou didst formerly know as the Lord Protector Oliver Cromwell. It is my mission to abase the flesh of others and herein I will have some exercise!"
"We defeated the Zhind. They were a species."
"Bird watchers are a rugged & hardy breed, Cane. Like stamp collectors & comic book fans, they crave excitement & danger."
"The bear's pullin' off my pants! I- I don't believe it -- this can't be happenin' to me..."
"- i guess y'all could say I got my partner right here!"
Where it's cold-sensitive bio-plastic epidermis grew & grew until the pretty thing was the size of a happy moon...
"Look up there! LOOK AT IT! There's NOTHING as important as that! Not even PIPE-FITTING!" (the dizzy vaults of imagination & 2000ad's working classs ethos, the infinite & the intimate, distilled together in a single panel)
Many if the engines are old robots, especially adapted for seige warefare... like this beffroy or mobile battle tower...
BIG JOBS!"I SEE A SHIP! A BIG SHIP!"
"Take me home! Feed me! Look after me! Take me h"
The humans would pay for killing his mother... Oh, they'd suffer... ALL humans would SUFFER!
Have you ever had your brain turned inside out..? ...IT HURTS!
Firekind part 6
"I could hear His footsteps getting louder & louder. Then He leaned over the rooftops to look down at me... & He had no face. There was just a terrible Light.
"A Light that filled the whole world."
D.D's K-craft fighter crossed the path the Odyssey had carved through the Solar System... "Monday! No, he's gone, there's nothing left... Only the debris from the battle falling into the Sun..."
A sequence so chilling because it is so innately, primally the apposite of all experience: [spoiler]"I wish the Sun would only rise
"& then I realise that it has risen
"And the Sun is black" [/spoiler]
The most perfect conclusion one could ever ask for: "...& then I was out.
"Just out."
QuoteSnap. The line that does it for me, that succinctly encapsulates how spot on Ennis gets the character is at the end of the first episode:
"Citizen Darien Kenzie -- take my hand if you want to live."
Heh, how's that for different strokes: that'd be the line I'd pick to show how
badly Ennis can write Dredd. It's just an Arnie line with the word 'Citizen' attached to show it's being said by a Judge. To be followed by "I'll be back - creep" and "hasta la vista, mutie".
Right there with the rest of your scenes, though!
Yeah, I groaned when Dredd delivered that sub-Terminator line too. Yawn. There were moments in that story that cringed a little like that, but the ones that stick in my brain are those last lines. Brilliant.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 12 September, 2009, 11:53:15 PM
Even though I wasn't actually a fan of the series, the page turn reveal in Sandman #7, after Destiny has destroyed Morpheus' ruby, is breath-taking. I was alone in my room in a hall of residence when I read that issue, and I actually remember exclaiming aloud "Fuck me" and putting the comic down for a minute before continuing.
Cheers!
Jim
That'll be the comics
"You don't get it boy. This isn't a mudhole..it's an operating table.
CRACK!
And I'm the surgeon"
Walking Dead- [spoiler]death of Tyreese[/spoiler]. Where I sat up and paid attention and thought, finally, that Robert Kirkman is the most "dangerous" writer in comics. Also in Walking Dead and more recently, when the voice on the phone is revealed to be none other than [spoiler]Rick's dead wife, Lori[/spoiler]. I think that single page is just about the most goosebumpy thing I've ever read.
As for Sandman- again, despite being Goth as Buggering Fuck, I gave it two and a half trades worth before stanmping it into the mud. Never has anything been so overrated, I think (other than Neil Gaiman's entire career, obviously. This is a man who thinks he's fucking Bono and hangs around with Terry Pratchett, that arch-purveyor of shite). It's the comics-equivilent of Eartha Kitt for me- guaranteed to make me run screaming from the room. But other people seem to like it, so hey-ho.
SBT
Loads of those already mentioned and.
Frank Miller Daredevil - "Gimme a red"
Stinky shooting himself in Hate.
Top Ten - "And I'm done"
And in 2000ad, still got to be "Gaze into the fist of Dredd!"
My most emotional comics moment was the day I walked into the comic book store and picked up Conan the Barbarian 275 only to find out it was the final issue.
This was the first comic I ever collected.
I stayed with it through some really awful years towards the end of its run.
Then Roy Thomas came back and the quality immediately found its way back into the series.
It was cancelled suddenly, without warning. No mention of its impending doom in issue 274. I felt as though I'd lost a friend.
Shortly thereafter the Savage Sword of Conan was cancelled as well, also with little notice :'(.
The death of Ginger in Charley's War.
'You! Private! What have you got in that bag?'
'My mate, Sir. My mate Ginger.'
Beautifully understated and Colloquhon really knocks it out of the park. Best three panels in comicdom.
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 15 September, 2009, 03:43:05 PM
Walking Dead- [spoiler]death of Tyreese[/spoiler]. Where I sat up and paid attention and thought, finally, that Robert Kirkman is the most "dangerous" writer in comics. Also in Walking Dead and more recently, when the voice on the phone is revealed to be none other than [spoiler]Rick's dead wife, Lori[/spoiler].
Absolutely. Walking Dead is chock full of moments like that and is one of the best reads out there today.
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 15 September, 2009, 03:43:05 PM
Terry Pratchett, that arch-purveyor of shite).
I beg your pardon.
Quote from: faplad on 15 September, 2009, 06:49:43 PM
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 15 September, 2009, 03:43:05 PM
Terry Pratchett, that arch-purveyor of shite).
I beg your pardon.
I know! The SmallBlueThing Steev's new boardname alludes to must be his frozen heart! No Disney, no Pratchett, it's a hard place in there, softened only by copious hot wife.
Quote from: TordelBack on 15 September, 2009, 06:54:38 PM
softened only by copious hot wife.
That just made her laugh like a drain- and she sends "big winks to Tordleback".
But Pratchett- no, really, horrible, horrible writer. And I fucking hate his hat and stupid beard.
SBT
Is it me, or is very warm in here all of a sudden?
Whole swathes of "V for Vendetta"... especially the "Valerie" letter... (It even worked in the film!)
The bit near the end of "Watchmen" (Ep. 11?) where the 'alien' is teleported and the news vendor puts his arms around the little kid to protect him as the panel bleeds to whiteness...
That early "Sandman" story set in the diner...
Chopper 'dying' at the finishing line in "Song of the Surfer"...
"The Coyote Gospel" in "Animal Man"...
Mike Moran's 'suicide' in "Marvelman" - one silent page, brilliantly done - and the reveal of 'Marveldog'/'Miracledog'...
Quote from: john_s on 15 September, 2009, 08:02:55 PM
Whole swathes of "V for Vendetta"... especially the "Valerie" letter... (It even worked in the film!)
Am I the only person who thought it actually worked better in the film? In fact, am I the only person who preferred the film to the comic?
SBT
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 15 September, 2009, 08:09:43 PM
In fact, am I the only person who preferred the film to the comic?
Yes. Yes, you are.
And I say that as someone who has taken a bit of a bruising as a defender of the film here and elsewhere!
Cheers
Jim
"The Coyote Gospel" in "Animal Man"...
Christ yes. "I'm sorry, I can't understand it" (or something close) is utterly fucking heartbreaking.
I'd also cite The Death of the Red Mask.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 15 September, 2009, 08:18:30 PM
Yes. Yes, you are.
And I say that as someone who has taken a bit of a bruising as a defender of the film here and elsewhere!
Heh. Well, bollocks to that. The film is nowhere near as politically naiive as the comic- which is very much the work of a writer just starting out, and being a bit radical. The changes they made were absolutely fundamental to it working as a piece of science fiction in (what was it, 2006?) rather than an eighties anachronism.
It's still a very good comic- but it doesn't make me actually want to go out and topple governments, as the film does. It's utterly wonderful in every single way. There are precious few adaptations of anything that are as good as the source material, but this really is.
So there!
SBT
QuoteThere are precious few adaptations of anything that are as good as the source material, but this really is.
You know, Marge, in some ways you and I are very different people.
Never, reading this forum, have I ever gone from big smile to a huge neon WTF?!?! faster than I did when I read
Quote from: brendan1 on 15 September, 2009, 02:54:19 PM
"You don't get it boy. This isn't a mudhole..it's an operating table.
CRACK!
And I'm the surgeon"
followed by
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 15 September, 2009, 03:43:05 PMNever has anything been so overrated, I think (other than Neil Gaiman's entire career, obviously)
- Say it ain't so, Steev! Say it ain't so! :'(
IMHO V for Vendetta was centred on Anarchy v faschism and they altered it too much to have the full impact which Moore created. Still I enjoyed the film as I watched it before the reading the book, and I think would still have enjoyed it if it was vice versa.
V
Quote from: TordelBack on 15 September, 2009, 06:54:38 PM
The SmallBlueThing Steev's new boardname alludes to must be his frozen heart! No Disney, no Pratchett, it's a hard place in there, softened only by copious hot wife.
I'm with Steev all the way on both Pratchett and Disney. Yawnx10
267And I also agree about the excellent V for Vendetta movie beating the book, for precisely the same reason - political naivete. The movie made me want to tear down the Houses of Parliament myself, brick by brick - the book (which I read much earlier in life) was hugely entertaining and made me think, but not to the same degree and without the same emotional punch. Proof that Alan Moore's moviephobia is sometimes misplaced.
QuoteSay it ain't so, Steev! Say it ain't so!
You are allowed to have different opinions about things you know. In fact, it's positively to be encouraged.
Except you should all agree with me.
Yet for me it was the movie that had zero emotional punch and provoked no real response; graphic novel beats it hands down in almost all respects, IMO.
Goosebump moments...
I think the bit in Miracleman where the line is something like "People say I checked the first car I threw to see if it was occupied... that just wasn't true". A great line putting "them" and "us" in context.
The first four panels and eight words of ALL-STAR SUPERMAN. The Superman myth summed up perfectly where art, words and colours fuse together beautifully.
THE DAY OF THE EAGLE in BATTLE. But he's the hero. He can't die.
D-DAY DAWSON in BATTLE. But he's the hero. He can't die.
I really loved THE TEAM THAT WENT TO WAR in BATTLE as well. I genuinely never knew whether they would live or die.
Ezquerra drawing Tigers and Panthers with guns roaring in MAJOR EAZY and RAT PACK. And the oh so cool (why has nobody done it in a movie?) bit where RAT PACK are inside a petrol tanker in diving gear.
I was a huge fan of Ennis' PRIVELEGED ELITE line.
More Ezquerra - this time on RAGE. Just the solid art over such a long story. Perfectly managing that western in space feel. (And THE INCIDENT ON MAYGER MINOR)
TWO TON TONY TUBBS - grin on face from beginning to end (two weeks later)
And a very personal one: reading "SPERM COUNT" for the first time and seeing Adrian Bamforth's brillint pictures making the words seem a million times better than they were.
QuoteThe movie made me want to tear down the Houses of Parliament myself, brick by brick - the book (which I read much earlier in life) was hugely entertaining and made me think, but not to the same degree and without the same emotional punch.
Okay, I really have to watch that film again. I'd long marveled at Buttonman's championing of it, but hey, at least I could reassure myself that BM is stark staring insane. Jim's said nice things about it too, but hey, he's a contrary bastard. Now Steev and Mike as well? I couldn't
stand the bloody thing. While I thought some of the set pieces were well handled (Valerie particularly), I just felt almost everything about it was horribly heavy handed and cringeworthy.
As a side issue, do we think that Alan Moore's intention in the book was to actually champion anarchy, or just to tell a good story about resisting a fascist regime?
I always felt Alan Moore was personally championing anarchy * (and making a perfect case against it) in the writing of V, but I didn't get that from it (and I don't know many people who did) - I got the message of resistance to opression.
Resistance is not only the noble thing to do or the right thing to do, it's the only thing to do. I reckon Moore'd be happy with either interpretation really, regardless of what was going on in his (very messy and hairy) head at the time.
* I base that assumption on nothing more than 1. gut feeling and 2. Moore's reputation.
I thought the V film was one of the best comedies I've ever seen.
I should point out that David Lloyd said he thought it was fantastic. I WAS THERE WHEN HE SAID IT.
I thought the V for Vendetta movie sucked.
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 15 September, 2009, 10:25:51 PM
I always felt Alan Moore was personally championing anarchy * (and making a perfect case against it) in the writing of V, but I didn't get that from it (and I don't know many people who did) - I got the message of resistance to opression.
Resistance is not only the noble thing to do or the right thing to do, it's the only thing to do. I reckon Moore'd be happy with either interpretation really, regardless of what was going on in his (very messy and hairy) head at the time.
* I base that assumption on nothing more than 1. gut feeling and 2. Moore's reputation.
Thats the message i got from it as well.I watched a short interview with AM regarding the message behind V for Vendetta.I didnt necessarily agree with everything that he said though however anarchy was not mentioned at any point in that interview.
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 15 September, 2009, 09:21:11 PM
And I also agree about the excellent V for Vendetta movie beating the book, for precisely the same reason - political naivete.
That was exactly the reason I disliked the film! It was about as politically savvy as Bill Hicks, which is to say, politically spot-on for a sixth-former and just really amusing to the rest of us. The book was certainly naive on the subject of how a nuclear war would go down, but it was hardly politically so - it portrayed a devastated country on its knees being taken over by the first organised bunch of Bad Men to come along, which is pretty much what happens in devastated countries the world over. What it didn't portray was John Hurt faking a terrorist attack and then magicking a fascist government out of nowhere, changing the entire political structure of Britain on the way. Also changing his name from Susan to Sutler for no very good reason other than a missed point.
Quote from: TordelBack on 15 September, 2009, 10:04:35 PM
Okay, I really have to watch that film again. I'd long marveled at Buttonman's championing of it, but hey, at least I could reassure myself that BM is stark staring insane. Jim's said nice things about it too, but hey, he's a contrary bastard. Now Steev and Mike as well? I couldn't stand the bloody thing. While I thought some of the set pieces were well handled (Valerie particularly), I just felt almost everything about it was horribly heavy handed and cringeworthy.
I saw the film before reading the book and, while I wouldn't go as far as turning that last comment round, I thought the film actually worked far better. The bits of the film which I did find cringeworthy actually turned out to be those which were most faithful to the comic (primarily dialogue and I'll accept that that's something which works differently in different media.) The decision to excise the embarassing subplot about the leader being in love with the computer or whatever was certainly a good one.
Also agree with SmallBlueSteev and his copious wife about Pratchett. I'm always worried, in Waterstones, that the weight of the smug self-satisfaction oozing from the pages is going to cause his shelf to collapse and bury me under a pile of wyrd sisters dross. I found the first couple quite amusing with their straight parodies but the others I've read have left me bemused at their popularity. They slip down easily enough, but it's clear that he thinks he's being tremendously original and insightful with his utterly pedestrian observations.
And thanks to Tips for reminding me of a classic 2000AD moment:
"Gimme the pie!"
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 15 September, 2009, 11:41:05 AM
Yeah, I groaned when Dredd delivered that sub-Terminator line too. Yawn.
Ahhhh well, I guess that saves Stevie from having to see any of those Terminator fillums then.
Another earth-shattering revelation from me then:
The first Terminator movie is a reasonably fun flick - I can't cope with the rest of it though. I hate the sequels. All of them.
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 16 September, 2009, 09:48:38 AM
Another earth-shattering revelation from me then:
The first Terminator movie is a reasonably fun flick - I can't cope with the rest of it though. I hate the sequels. All of them. Except for Terminator 2, which was more awesome than the first one.
You had a bit of a typo there, but I've fixed it for you.
No. Terminator 2 sucked the big one through a thirty metre length of hose like the god of all hoovers. The end.
Aaaaanyhooooo...
What's "Because I hate you" actually from?
EDIT: Nevermind, I've just seen the answer on my second pass....
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 16 September, 2009, 11:20:49 AM
No. Terminator 2 sucked the big one through a thirty metre length of hose like the god of all hoovers. The end.
You're so right. Utterly reprehensible shite. A pox on James Cameron, I say.
SBT
Not really sure if I have an actual 'goosebumps' moment in a comic but there is a story by Phillip Bond in one of the A1 books called Endless Summer.
It's a crackin wee story from one of my fave comic artists and when I read it, it makes me feel kinda sad... but in a good way.
I was once available on Bonds website to read but I've just checked and the website has been redone since then and it's no longer available.
Track it down if you can.. A1 Book 3.
Preacher- The fight between Cassidy and Jesse. In fact, drokk it, the entire last TPB of Preacher. So many tragic ends to brilliant characters. Herr Starrs speach about becoming a monster 'I certainly look the part' Am I the only one who likes Herr Starr?! Cant but help love the bald git! Preacher is without a shadow of a doubt the best comic ever written.
It really ISN'T actually - there are HUNDREDS of better comics out there than Preacher. But it is reasonably good fun.
Starr is about the only likeable character in the whole thing, he's beautifully pantomime and over the top.
You fail to mention any. To me it really is the best comic. The artworks unmatchable and the writing top notch. It contains so many themes, Friendship, Love, a thorough examination of religion, violence, comedy tragedy.. the list could go on) Have not yet read a better comic, and doubt I will, but would be chuffed if I ever did.
I must have missed the meeting telling me all about how good Preacher is 'cause I don't rate it at all.
You mention Dillons art, I found it more Dillon lite.
Steve Dillon has done some brilliant comic art (just about every Dredd he did was top drawer stuff) but Preacher isn't one of them. I'm convinced he cut back on the detail to meet the monthly deadlines.
A better comic with better art... I'd rate The Dark Knight Returns, Peter Bagges HATE, Sterenko on Nick Fury, Alan Moores Swamp Thing, Love and Rockets, Born Again among others above Preacher.
But I understand it's all subjective and each to their own.
QuoteHave not yet read a better comic, and doubt I will, but would be chuffed if I ever did.
That's a good attitude! Just to pick one, have you read Beto Hernandez's
Palomar stories? Honestly, go do that (three volume lovely cheap edition currently available). I'd be very impresssed if you said Preacher was better than that because, well, it isn't. In my opinion, obviously.
Now, I love me a bit of 'Preacher'- I can happily grab a trade down from the shelf and spend an evening chortling away at some classic Garth Ennis excess and enjoying Steve Dillon's (yes, I think) deadline-inspired more simplistic artwork. I've never read the series from start to stop, only own selected trades and have no real interest in ever plugging the gaps, to be honest. But- yes, it's great fun in a violent, sweary, funny, irreligious kind of way. Part of the fun for me is that it's drawn by Dillon- an artist I've followed since the late seventies and always admired, and so feels consequently like picking up an issue of Teen Titans, drawn by George Perez and finding he's drawn massive cocks on all the characters. A bit naughty.
But I know a lot of people (especially non-comic readers) rate it very highly indeed- and it's often called "the best comic ever done". I have a sneaking suspicion this may be said entirely to wind up fans of Sandman (and to a lesser degree Mr Moore) and to make them jump up and down huffing that how can the rough boys across the road possibly prefer that profane garbage to their esoteric retellings of ancient myths and marvellous use of Jungian Archetypes, strop strop.
A bit like the reaction of Beatles fans (and hairy people in general) to Punk at the end of the seventies.
Actually, the more I talk about 'Preacher', the more I DO want to get the missing trades and read it all the way through. It's that kind of series- like a lot of Ennis's work, it's an overexcited puppy of a comic that you can't help but like, even when it shits in the corner. Which it does, quite a lot.
SBT
I'm not sure if this is a 'goosebumps' moment as it is a 'holy fecea!' moment - but I gotta mention the astonishing events that finish off volume 3 of Akira.
We're talking APOCALYPSE WRIT LARGE! I remember reading that sequence and catching myself reading with my mouth agape. It's made all the more striking for the fact that the characters we've grown to enjoy through the preceding two-and-a-bit books are caught smack dab in the middle, right in the midst of the depiction of all hell breaking loose. And of course, it all ends with a full page illustration that really looks like it could be an image from a motion picture.
Utterly, utterly incredible stuff. It was an awesome way for Otomo to visually demonstrate that the series was heading in a different direction from that point on.
I've never read Akira- though I was dragged to see the film once while very, very ill and consequently remember nothing about it. I think I may actually read this- comics are better than films anyway and while I have an allergic reaction to both anime and manga normally, something says I MAY, just may, be able to tolerate it.
SBT
Quote from: HdE on 17 September, 2009, 06:25:00 PM
Utterly, utterly incredible stuff. It was an awesome way for Otomo to visually demonstrate that the series was heading in a different direction from that point on.
I read Akira in the old Epic editions and one of my favourite things in comics ever is the way the issue containing that sequence was differentiated from the rest so you knew even before getting it home and reading it that there was something special about it.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3424/3255433665_f7514905ea.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3468/3256262918_098b827029.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3529/3256262516_8be2228840.jpg?v=0)
(it's #16, incidentally)
Oh yes... and Akira.
It hurts my head just thinking about the amount of work that went into the artwork!
Worth a re-read soon I think.
The double page spread of all the heroes in The New Frontier. It's corny as hell viewed in isolation but Cooke's spiel about the best of humanity coming together is some stirring stuff. From the same book, I love the scene where Hal Jordan finally has enough of Carol (& others) questioning his integrity of his pacifism. Simple but incredibly effective.
Also from Grant Morrison's JLA: Rock of Ages, Batman punches out Metron and IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE.
I may as well just confess that Morrison is my favourite comic writer ever. There, I said it.
Especially Spector's death in The Filth (she rapidly ages six months and so does her cancer). He almost always manages to inject just the right amount of pathos into some of the most bizarre settings and he's never afraid that he might lapse into melodrama.
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 17 September, 2009, 06:21:05 PM
Now, I love me a bit of 'Preacher'
I know a lot of people (especially non-comic readers) rate it very highly indeed- and it's often called "the best comic ever done". I have a sneaking suspicion this may be said entirely to wind up fans of Sandman (and to a lesser degree Mr Moore) and to make them jump up and down huffing that how can the rough boys across the road possibly prefer that profane garbage to their esoteric retellings of ancient myths and marvellous use of Jungian Archetypes, strop strop.
A bit like the reaction of Beatles fans (and hairy people in general) to Punk at the end of the seventies.
Heres the thing. I love Sandman, I think it's a fantastic comic that changed the way I looked at the medium. The exact same comment could be applied to Swamp Thing. And yet I would still say that Preacher is indeed the best comic ever written.
The reason is this. If I gave a copy of Alan Moores Swamp Thing to a typical non comic reader they would likely give up on it after a couple of issues. Likewise Sandman. Give them Preacher and they'll laugh themselves silly at the nob gags and bestiality jokes and copious useage of the word fuck. They'll keep reading. And before long they'll be hooked on the characters, they'll be willing Jesse and Tulip to stay together, they'll be willing Cass to overcome his demons and stay on the 'good side', they'll be cheering on Arseface as he rises from the ashes of his crappy childhood.
Eniss uses the gore and toilet humour to hook people but uses heart, soul, and some of the best characters you'll ever read about to keep them hooked.Sandman and Swamp Thing are intelligent character pieces. Preacher is an intelligent character piece with mass market crossover appeal.
QuoteGive them Preacher and they'll laugh themselves silly at the nob gags and bestiality jokes and copious useage of the word fuck. They'll keep reading. And before long they'll be hooked on the characters, they'll be willing Jesse and Tulip to stay together, they'll be willing Cass to overcome his demons and stay on the 'good side', they'll be cheering on Arseface as he rises from the ashes of his crappy childhood.
Or they'll find overbearingly crude, sentimental and condescending.
If you want a good "gateway" comic I'd say DK Returns is still the best bet. Everyone knows Batman right? Well in this one he's mental.
The Akira comics are astonishing. One thing I've never worked out - Otomo didn't draw the whole thing himself did he? It seems impossible that one guy could have drawn it all - he must have had a whole team just doing the speed lines, surely?
Quote from: faplad on 18 September, 2009, 12:11:52 AM
And yet I would still say that Preacher is indeed the best comic ever written.
The reason is this. If I gave a copy of Alan Moores Swamp Thing to a typical non comic reader they would likely give up on it after a couple of issues. Likewise Sandman.
At work today an otherwise perfectly normal chap suddenly opined that Preacher is a far better meditation on man's relationship with the divine than The Da Vinci Code. I couldn't argue.
I don't think your argument holds much water though. Irrespective of the quality, wasn't Sandman's impact and popularity largely down to the extent to which it drew in a non comics reading audience?
My surefire path for gettin a non-reader into comics would be: Asterix -> DR & Quinch's Guide to Life -> Leviathan -> The Mighty Kev -> Everything else.
Quote from: Roger Godpleton on 17 September, 2009, 10:49:14 PM
Also from Grant Morrison's JLA: Rock of Ages, Batman punches out Metron and IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE.
I love the bit in the first Morrison JLA story where the three super-hard heroes have Batman surrounded and he's not remotely scared...
Quote from: The Cosh on 18 September, 2009, 12:35:08 AM
I don't think your argument holds much water though. Irrespective of the quality, wasn't Sandman's impact and popularity largely down to the extent to which it drew in a non comics reading audience?
My surefire path for gettin a non-reader into comics would be: Asterix -> DR & Quinch's Guide to Life -> Leviathan -> The Mighty Kev -> Everything else.
Ypu may be right about sandman. I can only speak from my own experience. I spent many years trying to subtly influence my colleagues into reading comics. Truth is, they wouldn't touch Sandman. Threw all the cliched 'pretentious' insults at it. Got a good few with Preacher though. This may speak more to the kind of people I was working with than the merits of the books, I don't know.
All that aside, Preacher/Sandman isn't an either/or for me. I enjoyed them both immensely.
Quote from: BoJirch on 16 September, 2009, 09:16:27 PMPreacher- The fight between Cassidy and Jesse. In fact, drokk it, the entire last TPB of Preacher. ... Preacher is without a shadow of a doubt the best comic ever written.
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 17 September, 2009, 10:37:34 AM...there are HUNDREDS of better comics out there than Preacher. But it is reasonably good fun.
I'm glad you inserted the "to me" in that comment, BoJirch - that's what set me off in the first place. I only originally commented to perhaps question your UNQUESTIONING placement of Preacher at the top of the comic book tree. Although in my eagerness to point that out, I failed to insert the appropriate modifier myself - ah hubris!
Quote from: BoJirch on 17 September, 2009, 04:26:22 PMYou fail to mention any. To me it really is the best comic.
Oh, lists? We're doing LISTS now? ;-p
Well mine would include, off the top of my head: V for Vendetta, Batman: The Killing Joke, Lone Wolf & Cub, Sandman, Akira, Transmetropolitan, Maus, Alice in Sunderland, Tale of One Bad Rat, Batman: The Long Halloween, Miller's Daredevil, Stan Lee & Steve Ditko's Spider-Man, Watchmen, FreakAngels, Love & Rockets and large swathes of Twoth (specifically Dredd, Nemesis, Strontium Dog, Nikolai Dante, Slaine, Leviathan, Caballistics Inc., The Ballad of Halo Jones and Button Man). That list could be twice as long.
I know there are a few superhero books there and I have said a lot about my dislike of the genre - these books are just so good that they got around me. That little lot, and Preacher for that matter, have tons of goosebumpage for your enjoyment (if I could be bothered I'd get a link to the Ennis written tribute to Twoth where he just lists TONS of excellent moments).
Like I say, it's all personal taste. Nice chatting with you BoJirch.
Quote from: faplad on 18 September, 2009, 01:05:28 AM
Quote from: The Cosh on 18 September, 2009, 12:35:08 AM
I don't think your argument holds much water though. Irrespective of the quality, wasn't Sandman's impact and popularity largely down to the extent to which it drew in a non comics reading audience?
My surefire path for gettin a non-reader into comics would be: Asterix -> DR & Quinch's Guide to Life -> Leviathan -> The Mighty Kev -> Everything else.
Ypu may be right about sandman. I can only speak from my own experience. I spent many years trying to subtly influence my colleagues into reading comics. Truth is, they wouldn't touch Sandman. Threw all the cliched 'pretentious' insults at it. Got a good few with Preacher though. This may speak more to the kind of people I was working with than the merits of the books, I don't know.
All that aside, Preacher/Sandman isn't an either/or for me. I enjoyed them both immensely.
I've found a couple of times now that Hate has worked batter than Watchmen as the gateway comic of choice. The people I gave Watchmen too struggled a little with the Superhero thing while trying to work out how to read comics. Were as Hate was something storywise they related to much easier and so they could concentrate more on relearning how to read comcis.
I think Mr Godpleton talks great sense above. it was DK returns that's responsible for me buying ANY further DC comics - known character suddenly revealed as cool and interesting! And Morrison has produced some amazing stuff - I still can't decide if The Filth is genius, or has tipped over into madness!
Just to jump in on this point (when I really should be sleeping...)
Quote from: radiator on 18 September, 2009, 12:31:44 AM
The Akira comics are astonishing. One thing I've never worked out - Otomo didn't draw the whole thing himself did he? It seems impossible that one guy could have drawn it all - he must have had a whole team just doing the speed lines, surely?
Yes indeedy-doodly-doo. He did indeed do it all by himself.
Mind you, the guy was by that point a qualified architechtural draughtsman. If you look at the amount of environmental art in that book, I'd say it was a pretty safe wager that he'd learned to do that stuff QUICKLY. I don't know to what extent computers were being used in manga back in 1982 - there's a lot of tone in those books.
And didn't Steve Oliff do a magnificent job on the Marvel editions? An awesome colour job indeed. Really services the story well.
QuoteI still can't decide if The Filth is genius, or has tipped over into madness!
Can't it be both?
Alrite,
My lack of reply is due to my work taking away the internet! assholes.
To the response below (Save Ferris shirt guy... Weird- as I also used to listen to this ska band many moons ago), I have read plenty of comics thank you very much, and assure you that I genuinely enjoy Preacher. Whilst a lot of 'new' comics readers may as well, surely that speaks volumes about the overall greatness of the comic as it can appeal to both genre fans and newcomers alike? I agree with you on Dillon's Dredd work (the werewolf story is 110% badass) but I feel the preacher artwork suited the punky style of preacher, as it lends itself to the trashy style of the comic, which disguises several complex themes. I much prefer this style of art to the increasingly ICT based coloring approach seen in modern comics.
I also enjoy DKR, and also its sequel as I love Miller's artwork. In particular his trippy visuals as exemplified in the TPB vol 7 of Sin City. Is his other output any good? Obviously DD is a laugh but I have seen some weird robot based story's and am undecided whether to buy that, rogue trooper or get into Charley's war(I feel that one purchase in this series will lead to many!?)
Anyway, no hard feelings, I genuinely love Preacher, and as I say am always on the look out for decent comics. Unfortunatley my new uni course is eating into valuable reading time.
Peace out
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 18 September, 2009, 12:28:38 PM
so they could concentrate more on relearning how to read comcis.
I read this and thought nothing of it and then I heard discussion of it in a comics podcast I occasionally listen to that has a segment where they try to convert non readers. It made me think.
Does anyone really have the problem of not knowing how to read comics? With the exception of the Beano and a few old Battles of my Grandads I never read comics as a little kid. Then I discovered 2000ad at about 14/15. The thought of 'how to read it' never entered my head. I just read it.
I mean, as a medium that was ,at least until relatively recently, predominately aimed at kids, just how hard is it to master, do we think?
Not trying to disrespect anyone on this, I'm just genuinely interested. As I said earlier in this thread, I spent a long time trying to convert my friends with vaying success but of the ones who didn't bite the reason they gave was never "I don't get how to follow the story in this form"
Side note, I've just had to hit edit on this cos it posted itself while I was mid sentence. Anyone know why this might have happened?
[posting when he should be sleeping!]
That's an interesting post Faplad, and it raises an equally interesting point.
I actually believe that comics can be difficult to understand at times, in the respect that their communication is sometimes difficult to grasp. There's a definite method of reading the things, which sometimes doesn't jibe with what makes sense.
By example, I recently read a couple of Cowboy Bebop manga. I enjoyed the show and the movie a lot, so I wanted more of the same. Trouble is, these books were REALLY hard to read. The page layouts and reading order of panels frequently didn't make sense to me.
Initially, I wrote that off as bad design and layout. But a little later on, I did a bit of research into the conventions of manga, and realised that it was just down to me not really grasping the way the Japanese approach the flow of their comics.
Sometimes, I'll read a western graphic novel and I'll find that I'm equally as confused as I was with the manga. I think sometimes, when reading a comic book, you have to be on the ball and paying attention to the way things are flowing.
(This post is dedicated to anybody who had to read a double page spread in a graphic novel twice, because they didn't realise they were meant to be 'reading in widescreen!')
Quote from: HdE on 21 September, 2009, 02:27:54 AM
(This post is dedicated to anybody who had to read a double page spread in a graphic novel twice, because they didn't realise they were meant to be 'reading in widescreen!')
This is particularly frustrating when reading digital comics. My laptop's screen is too small to read comics portrait, so I rotate them (and my laptop) by 90 degrees, to make better use of the space. I'll often not notice until the second page of the spread that I missed context for the first page, and then have to rotate, set to double page, read, set to single page, rotate. Grr.
Its worth noting that arguably the most successful 'breakthrough' comic (Watchmen) has a startlingly simple 9-panel layout where it really is impossible to read out of order.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 18 September, 2009, 12:28:38 PM
Quote from: faplad on 18 September, 2009, 01:05:28 AM
Quote from: The Cosh on 18 September, 2009, 12:35:08 AM
I don't think your argument holds much water though. Irrespective of the quality, wasn't Sandman's impact and popularity largely down to the extent to which it drew in a non comics reading audience?
My surefire path for gettin a non-reader into comics would be: Asterix -> DR & Quinch's Guide to Life -> Leviathan -> The Mighty Kev -> Everything else.
Ypu may be right about sandman. I can only speak from my own experience. I spent many years trying to subtly influence my colleagues into reading comics. Truth is, they wouldn't touch Sandman. Threw all the cliched 'pretentious' insults at it. Got a good few with Preacher though. This may speak more to the kind of people I was working with than the merits of the books, I don't know.
All that aside, Preacher/Sandman isn't an either/or for me. I enjoyed them both immensely.
I've found a couple of times now that Hate has worked batter than Watchmen as the gateway comic of choice. The people I gave Watchmen too struggled a little with the Superhero thing while trying to work out how to read comics. Were as Hate was something storywise they related to much easier and so they could concentrate more on relearning how to read comcis.
Agreed.. an old girlfriend of mine absolutly loved HATE but never even hinted at the slightest interest in any other comic... it was if HATE was the only comic ever produced.
Almost every time I seen her her first question to me was 'is there a new HATE out yet?'
If I had have given her Watchmen to read I'm sure she would have given me funny looks wondering why I had a comic that feature a blue guy with his knob out all the time!!
Those blue guys, it's any excuse to get out the tackle. As the censored episodes of Rogue Trooper prove.
Pat Mills has a lot to answer for! Everything was hunky dory for a hundred years, comics were easy to read- with six panels to a page, typed speech balloons and black and white morals, until he came along and "went all European" on our arses!
The bastard! :D
SBT
I have to admit, a dynamic page layout really gets my attention. Frequently I'll see bad attempts at it, where details get squeezed into tiny spaces and there are broad expanses of nothing on the page, but I just love all that adventurous design.
It has to be said, though - easy reading HAS to be the top priority. or even the most alert and switched-on reader can get confused.
What's interesting to me is the way that sometimes, even a simple trick like a double page spread can cause confusion. It's just one big panel, right? But I've seen these so many times where the emphasis has gone on creating a big, striking image, and yet there's little thought given top the placement and reading order of the boxouts and speech bubbles.
If I've already picked up the comic, I reckon the job of grabbing my attention is already done. The primary job of a comic artist is to tell the bleedin' story. The rest must take second place (although obviously we'd like there to be cracking design and all that grooviness too).
I'd say that's a good point!
It's something I'm always considering when I come to doing a page layout. A load of square panels on a page does the job, but to me it's not very exciting. I've subbed a few one page comics for a certain online fan-comic scheme where I've tried to spice things up as much as possible - angled panels, bleed images, funky reading order, that sort of thing. It's surprisingly easy to slip up and create a confusing page.
getting back tot he whole topic of 'goosebump' moments in comics - I really think a dynamic layout can help to achieve that effect. I read Masamune Shirow's Appleseed a while back, and the fourth book has an INSANE fight scene in it, where the heroine takes on a room full of terrorists unarmed. Shirow uses different sized panels to communicate the impact of the blows in the fight. Small panels mark the little slaps and taps, whikle the killing blow gets three quarters of the page as a bled image.
It certainly gets the message across!
I'm currently reading the New X-men TPB by Grant Morrison (& Frank Quitely among others). It's good, but one chapter (ie issue of comic) is presented entirely in landscape format, meaning you have to hold the book up sideways - for some reason, this irritates me probably more than it should!
Nemesis
Bo: "Oh, no! I... I've just cut my hand off!"
Nosedrip: "Are you all right, Bo?"
Bo: "I'm dying, you fool!"
Not strictly a comic but a comic strip but anyhoo the Radio 4 Calvin and Hobbes show reminded me
(http://cabcalvinandhobbes.tripod.com/Albums/last_ch.gif)