The Political Thread

[Grugz]

Apparently, it's been a very hot summer in Poland, so to cool down visitors to Auschwitz instead of offering them each a bottle of water, the camp authorities decided to put up a line of misters to shower their guests as they entered.

please tell me this was a joke!?!?!?!?

[Old Tankie]

No it is true but apparently it was not compulsory so that's all right then!!!

[Tiplodocus]

P.S. The joke was in the choice of words, not the sentiment.

Ah, I see. A bit like one of those chaps that says: "I'm a really nice guy and I respect women. Everybody says so. Even the girls I know. But not one of the whore bitch sluts will sleep with me!"

[Hawkmumbler]

The amazing thing about THOSE chaps is the complete lack of irony. Scum.

[The Legendary Shark]

Yes - like saying, "those bastarding, brainless, gobshitty, perverted morons wouldn't let me join the Diplomatic Corps."

[Tiplodocus]

So the simple reply to all of those Britian Furst/Reclaim Australia posts saying "Why should we help refugees when Saudia Arabia et al are plenty rich and refuse to take any refugees" is "Just because somebody else is being a cockwomble doesn't mean you have to be".

But where do I find a proper measured rebuttal to it?

[Big_Dave]

syria has a rotten goverment
but its a moderate & modern nation

if you had a daughter
would you take her somewhere
shed have to dress like a ninja
wasnt allowed to drive
& could be stoned to death for being raped?

[Spikes]

This hits the nail on the head

[Steven Denton]

If 66.1% of the tribe pray to the Volcano God asking for it to please not erupt and to bestow blessings on the tribe, that does not prove the existence of the Volcano God. Voting is the Statist's equivalent to praying to government asking it not to hurt us and to bestow blessings on the people and does not prove the existence of government.
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Government requires authority otherwise it would not be government - but how do 66.1% of the voting population pass on authorities they do not themselves possess (to take other people's money and push them around) to those they voted for? Even if 100% of eligible voters voted, they cannot delegate rights and authorities they do not possess to anyone else. Government, then, logically has no authority and, without authority, cannot exist.
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Belief in government, therefore, is not proof for the existence of government - just as belief in God is not proof for the existence of God.
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And I can't answer Kev's question, "what would we do first?" That question is rooted in the religion or superstition of Statism; ie, asking someone else for answers. A far better question is "what would I do first?" And nobody can answer that question but the questioner. The first thing I'd probably do is celebrate with a beer.

I know this was a while ago but that's not an argument... well it is it's a really bad one based on false equivalence.

worshiping a volcano god is more similar to wearing a the same hat for luck when you watch your chosen sports team, in that its the illusion of control over events you have no control over.

Voting/protesting/rebelling en-mass is exercising a measure or group control. In may ways participating politically is the exact opposite of your example and there in lays the problem with almost every attempted 'discussion' you have recently been involved in.

[The Legendary Shark]

The point is, Steven, that the "volcano god" and the "government" have exactly the same level of authority - none. The only authority either one has is the authority you imagine them to have over you.

[TordelBack]

Or to put it another way, ni dieu ni maître, eh? Blanqui was a socialist, mind, of a particularly authoritarian stripe.

[Steven Denton]

The point is, Steven, that the "volcano god" and the "government" have exactly the same level of authority - none. The only authority either one has is the authority you imagine them to have over you.

Not really.

quick test:

Does preying to a volcano god effect the eruptions of a volcano?

Does petitioning the government have any effect (like increasing the numbers of refugees we will take or scrapping the poll tax or the Arab spring or the Russian/ Chinese revolution) ?

Governments have the authority of the people. how people deal with that as a group is up to them. If a volcanic island was run by a volcano cult then the cult could have power. the cult could be the government, but the cults authority would be real until the people over turned it. But you didn't use an autocratic religious group (which many governments are formed by) as your example you used a volcano god which is false equivalenceglossed over with a glib dismissiveness. (the intention of making anyone who 'believes' in government look as ridiculous as an island cult based on specific and disprovable superstation)

[TordelBack]

Perhaps a stumbling block here is the notion of authority as absolute. We cede authority in limited wags in almost every interaction - I don't shout instructions at the bus driver; I chop onions the way my missus instructs when she's doing the cooking (even though she is plainly deluded)and vice versa; I keep my voice down in the library (even when I'm the only one doing it). In all cases a limited delegation of authority has taken place. The authority of government is no more absolute - we assign it  as we see fit as individuals and as a group.  There are things government could never make me do, and things it could never make the population do, because its authority is not (or at least no longer) absolute: it is negotiated and assigned, through the democratic process.

Now how that process operates, the level and extent of authority we cede, how that affects personal responsibility and how we deal with situations where individuals and groups are harmed by the authority the majority assign, those are the bastardly tricky bits.

[Grugz]

No it is true but apparently it was not compulsory so that's all right then!!!

dear lord! someone wasn't paying attention in that meeting were they? I'm surprised they bothered setting up the misters when they had some pupose built showers already there! mind.boggled!

[Modern Panther]

Is it legal for politicians to lie to get elected?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34190439