we use everything but the soul!

[Max Kon]

Combine the two, and put poop in the coffins!

Well if you place the body in a coffin imediately after death you'd get that!

I know too much about what happens after death....

[TordelBack]

Who makes the distinction between grave robbers and archaeology? Do it in ten years - the jail, wait 500 years fat research grant.

If you only saw the mountains of paper wasted on that debate... I would personally be happy if I never saw another dead body of any type, never mind dug one up.  The ability to double-think and the utter lack of respect for other peoples' beliefs in the archaeological community is actually profoundly depressing, even with regard to bodies of one's "own culture", never mind the dead of others.  

Just one example, of many:   Last year i had attend a site where a Children's Burial Ground (okay, a ditch outside a convent wall  for unbaptised or still-born kids, in use up to the 1960's, I'd guess) had been disturbed during levelling for an extension to a school carpark.  The situation hadn't been helped by the arrival of the cops, who further mangled things and carried off a random assortment of bones for what reason I can't imagine.

It was a heart-breaking scene, with little egg-thin skulls and twiglike ribs everywhere, parts of little unfused pelvises looking like tiny bone ears.  I tidied things up as best I could, fenced the area off, and told the contractors to piss off home (they were supposed to have had an archaeologist (me) present because we had suspected there might be something like this so close to a convent, but had decided to go ahead regardless - so fuck them).

I contacted the school and told them they'd have to leave that bit of the carpark out (about five spaces), and got an earful from the Principal demanding that I hoof out all the bodies and let them get on with it.  A Catholic school, I might add, and the bodies almost certainly belong to the brothers and sisters or uncles and aunts of living local residents, maybe even their children.  Dig 'em out for a few car parking spaces.  At least I held that line, by explaining how unbelievably expensive that would be - money at least has power to shock.

I then rang the National Museum, as I'm legally required to, and told them that as the site was of no scientific interest, I was going to  get the ground reinstated, and I would gather all the disturbed bones up (apart from the ones the cops had nicked, that is) and re-inter them as best I could.  No dice.  These were important archaeological objects, apparently, and had to be examined by a specialist osteo-archaeologist and permanently stored in the Museum.  Further, the cops needed a forensic analysis carried out of the bones they'd recovered.  Of some randomly selected 19th/20th century bones that their roving plods had scooped up.

I ended up very, very angry.  The human misery that these short lives had been at the centre of, denied even a burial place in consecrated ground beside their relatives, buried in hole scooped in a ditch probably at night by their shattered parents in the belief that their limbo-bound souls would have some peace because they were at least close to the holiness of the nuns within the convent, and no-one could see their way to preventing yet more indignities being heaped on their tiny remains.  Disgusting.

I have no religious beliefs whatsoever, but I like to think I can respect those of others.  

[Buttonman]

Troubling tale Tordelbank - thanks for sharing. Not like the Catholic Church to be a bunch of bastards!

You wonder how many importants sites have been hurriedly bulldozed by a contractor who has had experience of this kind of thing in the past. 'Looks like a pre-magnon man flint head boss' - 'Quick get the cement in here comes Tony Robinson' (or that guy off the 2000ad message board).

[Bolt-01]

Ouch. Scary story there Tord, At leat you can say you did something.

Bolt-01

[TordelBack]

You wonder how many importants sites have been hurriedly bulldozed by a contractor who has had experience of this kind of thing in the past.

Lots.  And they're not shy about sharing the fact when they find out your profession.

[Peter Wolf]

"You wonder how many importants sites have been hurriedly bulldozed by a contractor who has had experience of this kind of thing in the past. 'Looks like a pre-magnon man flint head boss' - 'Quick get the cement in here comes Tony Robinson' (or that guy off the 2000ad message board)."


 Lots and lots have and not always burial sites.


 It happened here recently with a victorian landfill site that contained household rubbish.It may predate the victorians but thats unknown at this stage.


 The council are building an incinerator on a site that has been the corporation depot/tip since victorian times.

 digging the footings exposed the deposits and there was some beautiful stuff coming out.Shame most of it was smashed by the builders.


 The council neglected to have the statutory protocols included in the builders contract concerning the excavation of the site.By this i mean in the event of a discovery the builders have to stop work to allow archeologists to inspect the site and find out what it was.

 I/we tried to negotiate with the builders but they wouldnt have it and since the protocols werent in place they had no legal obligation to let me/us into the site.


 The upshot of it after us banging our heads on the wall is that the entire site is now registered as an archeological site so the above cant happen again.Its a bit like securing mineral rights and there are some goodies under there i can tell you especially if the deposits are early 19th century.I/we contacted 2 archeological societies in Sussex and also University College London  as they have a very good archeological dept but they werent that interested because for them its not old enough to be of interest.

 The part of the site was plundered by private individuals for personal gain and very few finds recorded.


 Never dug up a dead body but lots of other things.Victorian tips are not tecnically Archeological but anything prior to that is.

 Seen a few skeletons that had been disturbed in various cemeterys.The best being Highgate Cemetery.I used to go for night walks in there and if you went round the catacombs you would see a skeleton sitting upright in a coffin ! and there were skulls that had been seperated from the bodies that someone had placed around the area.

[Peter Wolf]

 spare a thought for those poor unfortunates who had to tunnel or dig through Plague Pits when tunneling for London Underground.Imagine what that was like.


 Here is a link for various delict and neglected cemeterys in London.All in a terrible state.


 The most interesting being crossbones cemetery/ burial pit in Southwark. 148 bodies recovered from this site.Less than 1% of its total.


 Its inevitable that all of these sites in the not too distant future will be redeveloped.

Link: http://www.derelictlondon.com/cemetery.htm" target="_blank">http://www.derelictlondon.com/cemetery.htm

[vzzbux]

Christ some of those angels are straight out of that Dr Who episode.



V

[Peter Wolf]

http://s189.photobucket.com/albums/z122/peterwolf_album/?action=view¤t=Picture9-2.png" target="_blank">http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z122/peterwolf_album/Picture9-2.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket">

 This what shows up after a geophysical survey of a burial site that contains 15,000 bodies buried en masse.


  Its the large area of black within the white space on the poster.



 Its interesting that science hasnt found a way to recycle dead bodies yet.This is something that doesnt seem to have been touched on yet.


 In Judge Dredd you had Resyk.

 The recycling vats in Meltdown Man.I have no idea if that is possible in principle or not.Can bodies be dissolved to obtain resources that can be used again ?


 I would say its spurious science rather like the assembling of the Superpredators.


 I am sure there was a mention of recycling vats in another 2000ad strip fairly early on.I cant remember what the strip was and IIRC was mentioned  only once , but it seemed like a deliberate reference to another strip.

 It may have been in Judge Dredd somewhere.

[LARF]

What's the carbon footprint for a cremation?

[TordelBack]

carbon footprint

Cor, it didn't take long for that phrase to get irritating!