Dredd (2012)

[bigjobs67]

Don't be down on Fonky. He's fam' innit.

[JOE SOAP]

It wasn't even the story, casting, or the fact they tried to reach a broad audience (which I completely understand and agree with) I had a problem with, it was the fact that what that movie could have been was severely sabotaged by an egomaniacal, overpampered, and grossly overpaid lead star who refused to serve the material, rather forcing the material to serve him, and instead of giving Danny Cannon the benefit of advice from his long experience and considerable talent as a director himself, he treated the young British filmmaker as a glorified floor manager, cutting him out of the final creative process, and ensuring the final film would be a confused mess and a box-office bomb (effectively sabotaging Cannon's burgeoning film career as a result) and even badmouthing the finished product at the time of it's release, bad form doesn't even come close to describing Stallone's behaviour on that whole project... and that's not even getting started on Steven DeSouza's utter mangling of what I've heard was a pretty darn good first draft of the script written by William Wisher and veteran screenwriter Walon Green (which I'd sure love to read)

If Stallone hadn't signed on there'd be no film -unfortunately there is and it was more or less his production- but the blame should be shared between all involved at that level.


Walon Green is not creditied on Wisher's original draft.


The main beats of the Wisher '93 Dredd script:


First shot is a track moving up from the base of the Statue of Liberty bearing the inscription "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free.." to reveal the Statue of Judgment towering above it. The city is revealed as the shot pans around.


Title: Mega-City-One 2115



The story starts with the block war (block militias) Fergie (under parole) and one member of the League of Fatties. The block war goes on a lot longer and is more fleshed out as Dredd, Hershey and fellow Judges storm the blocks. Fergie is arrested.


A disillusioned Chief Judge Fargo retires early on due to old age and his desponency with the increasing uncontrollability of city crime rather than Dredd's murder conviction. The egotistical Griffin naturally succeeds as Chief Judge rather than from a particularly overt coup using Rico as muscle. Fargo takes the Long Walk in a duster coat and wide-brimmed hat.


As Griffin assumes his chiefdom, the prison warden in Aspen blackmails him to bring him back to the city and give him a seat on the Council of Five by using the threat of the truth of his past and releasing Rico (known as Joe Rico and believed dead) from prison. Griffin agrees as long as he brings Rico's head back to the city with him.


Citizens' representative Vardis Hammond accuses Dredd of heavy-handed tyrannical behaviour at the Block War. Griffin defends Dredd and a harsher regime under Griffin ensues: curfews, stricter laws etc.


Rico in Aspen -now mutated and more muscular from years of working in the Radioactive Ore mines that powers the city- breaks out after the prison warden tries to take his head. Rico declares his mission to take back what he sees is his...the title of Chief Judge. Rico escapes to the city with a gang of other mutant prisoners and makes it back to the city hidden in an Ore train.

Dredd continues to dispense justice on the streets of the Meg.

Back in the Meg, Rico begins threatening Griffin who fears him for what he knows about his past and the "Apollo" project.

Unbeknownst to Dredd, Rico is back and alive. Rico kills Vardis Hammond and Dredd is framed from the DNA at the scene.

Dredd is sent to Aspen on a shuttle with Fergie. Dredd realises he's been wronged and must return to the city. Stages a mutiny with Fergie and turns the ship around. With not enough fuel they crash land in the Cursed Earth. Making their way back to the Meg on foot they reach a village under an old freeway system where they discover the inhabitants are all dead from arrows. The reason for the killings are.....GILA MUNJA not the ANGEL GANG. Dredd and Fergie are attacked by the band of Gila Munja, dispatch a few of them but they are outnumbered. Fargo pops up and saves them before getting a final arrow through the chest.

A dying Fargo tells Dredd the truth about his clone-hood in the "Apollo" project, how it was Griffin's idea to clone Fargo to create the perfect Judge. It is also explained that Griffin secretly cloned Rico as a back-up to Dredd and that the clones had been tweaked to look different to hide this fact from Fargo. Rico performs better than Dredd but runs amok. Dredd arrrests him....you know the rest.

A doubting but soon reborn Dredd returns to the city wearing Fargo's duster coat, hat and badge. He and Fergie gain entrance to the city by Dredd posing as Fargo, returning Fergie as his prisoner from the shuttle crash.

Dredd and Fergie find the city in chaos under Griffin's inept yet still tyrannical regime. Rico and his gang of mutants seize the moment and begin their revolution by inciting a rebellion against Judges in the process of arresting the manager of an "Otto Sump Gungeteria" where a League of Fatties stuff their faces. Rico promises to liberate the citizens from Griffin and calls on all the cits and civillian defence corps to give him their weapons and stockpile them for a new militia.

Rico's army grows, taking sector by sector as the citizens overwhelm the Judges. Rico becomes more tyrannical than Griffin and takes over half the city while adorning himself with a new Nazi style Judge uniform. Dredd and Fergie decide to infiltrate Rico's militia by joining up. Meanwhile, within the embattled and cowering Council of Five, Griffin is forced to meet with Rico at an old location outside the Hall of Justice to discuss Rico's future as Chief Judge.

The meet is arranged.

Griffin is escorted by judges to the location (the old derelict cloning lab where the Apollo project took place) where Rico and his Militia arrive while a hit team consisting of Hershey and othe Judges scale the building taking positions to assassinate Rico. Dredd makes his way in. A shoot-out ensues after Rico tells Griffin what he wants and Griffin complies. Dredd, Hershey and Fergie escape during the bullet-fest into the uderground sewers as Rico, his army of perps and cits make their way to the Hall of Justice with Griffin at gunpoint.


In the sewers Dredd, Hershey and Fergie meet Fergie's old gang and a bunch of cadets who've hidden themselves from the chaos above. By burning torch-light they climb from the sewers into the "Museum of Justice" where they raid the old gun collection and Dredd adorns a display uniform; a cadet scratches "Dredd" upon the badge.


Dredd and his cadet/urchin army march with their torches on the Hall of Justice as embittered citizens swell their numbers with tire-irons and guns. They storm the gates battling Rico's army on the steps and make their way in as Rico attains the chains of office with the Council of Five at gun-point. Dredd and his army burst into the chamber, shoot the place up and by blowing a hole in the wall, Rico escapes and acquires a Lawmaster; Dredd follows likewise. They make it to the Statue of Judgement. They both climb it's inner structure, brawl, a hole is blown in the side and they fight on the top of the huge badge. They fall over on to the belt buckle below. Dredd blows Rico away and he falls into the torch of Liberty below where his body burns.


Fergie runs off with his gang and a dispensation. Hershey is made Chief Judge. Dredd returns to the streets.


No kiss but there is a smile.



It is a different script but it still ain't what a Dredd film should be and Dredd is still not Dredd, he's again portrayed as being a bit dumb; not nearly intimidating/authoritarian enough and they do try to humanise him but it is at least better than the complete mess that ended up as the film. Fergie's not wise-cracking as much, there's no Angel Gang, Joan Chen, ABC Warrior or clone army sub-plot either.

[bigjobs67]

But his shoulder pads are like well gold and shit (and his ass is kina cute lookin in thoses tight lycra trousers. Don't pretend you've never noticed)

[IAMTHESYSTEM]

What might have been eh?

Don't care for the pointless GILA MUNJA episode but like the bit about Judge Dredd returning to the city wearing Fargo's Hat and coat ala  Dead man style.

The big climatic battle between Rico and Joe Dredd seems similar to the one in the Stallone [a]version but the citz and muties clashing would have been a Mega city rumble to die for!

[radiator]

That sounds better than what we got, but a bit overblown and still sounds a bit too much like the old dynastic power struggle which was always the wrong tack to take for a Dredd film.

Why should the audience care who's in charge of mega city when they barely know the place?

Like the tip of the hat to Necropolis/Dead Man though, that would have been sweet, and it at least sounds a little closer to the comics with the fatties etc. would have been cool to see a mutated, freaky Rico too.

[JOE SOAP]

That sounds better than what we got, but a bit overblown and still sounds a bit too much like the old dynastic power struggle which was always the wrong tack to take for a Dredd film.

Why should the audience care who's in charge of mega city when they barely know the place?


It was either this or the Briggs brothers Death script, both intended for Arnie. Pressman wanted Death, Lippincott wanted Rico. Arnie was to choose which one he liked best and that would be filmed first. The biggest cock-block was always the desire of the producers for Dredd to have the broadest appeal starting from the youngest upwards. Pressman's desire to do Death was another mistake, as was Lippincott's Rico; the next was hiring Stallone after Arnie's drop-out. It should've died right there.

Like the tip of the hat to Necropolis/Dead Man though, that would have been sweet

...and the kids in the Undercity.

[JOE SOAP]

That sounds better than what we got, but a bit overblown and still sounds a bit too much like the old dynastic power struggle which was always the wrong tack to take for a Dredd film.

It was either this or the Briggs brothers Death script, both intended for Arnie. Pressman wanted Death, Lippincott wanted Rico. Arnie was to choose which one he liked best and that would be filmed first. The biggest cock-block was always the desire of the producers for Dredd to have the broadest appeal starting from the youngest upwards. Pressman's desire to do Death was another mistake, as was Lippincott's Rico; the next was hiring Stallone after Arnie's drop-out. It should've died right there.

Like the tip of the hat to Necropolis/Dead Man though, that would have been sweet

...and the kids in the Undercity.

[Gonk]

If Stallone hadn't signed on there'd be no film -unfortunately there is and it was more or less his production- but the blame should be shared between all involved at that level.


Walon Green is not creditied on Wisher's original draft.


The main beats of the Wisher '93 Dredd script:


First shot is a track moving up from the base of the Statue of Liberty bearing the inscription "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free.." to reveal the Statue of Judgment towering above it. The city is revealed as the shot pans around.


Title: Mega-City-One 2115



The story starts with the block war (block militias) Fergie (under parole) and one member of the League of Fatties. The block war goes on a lot longer and is more fleshed out as Dredd, Hershey and fellow Judges storm the blocks. Fergie is arrested.


A disillusioned Chief Judge Fargo retires early on due to old age and his desponency with the increasing uncontrollability of city crime rather than Dredd's murder conviction. The egotistical Griffin naturally succeeds as Chief Judge rather than from a particularly overt coup using Rico as muscle. Fargo takes the Long Walk in a duster coat and wide-brimmed hat.


As Griffin assumes his chiefdom, the prison warden in Aspen blackmails him to bring him back to the city and give him a seat on the Council of Five by using the threat of the truth of his past and releasing Rico (known as Joe Rico and believed dead) from prison. Griffin agrees as long as he brings Rico's head back to the city with him.


Citizens' representative Vardis Hammond accuses Dredd of heavy-handed tyrannical behaviour at the Block War. Griffin defends Dredd and a harsher regime under Griffin ensues: curfews, stricter laws etc.


Rico in Aspen -now mutated and more muscular from years of working in the Radioactive Ore mines that powers the city- breaks out after the prison warden tries to take his head. Rico declares his mission to take back what he sees is his...the title of Chief Judge. Rico escapes to the city with a gang of other mutant prisoners and makes it back to the city hidden in an Ore train.

Dredd continues to dispense justice on the streets of the Meg.

Back in the Meg, Rico begins threatening Griffin who fears him for what he knows about his past and the "Apollo" project.

Unbeknownst to Dredd, Rico is back and alive. Rico kills Vardis Hammond and Dredd is framed from the DNA at the scene.

Dredd is sent to Aspen on a shuttle with Fergie. Dredd realises he's been wronged and must return to the city. Stages a mutiny with Fergie and turns the ship around. With not enough fuel they crash land in the Cursed Earth. Making their way back to the Meg on foot they reach a village under an old freeway system where they discover the inhabitants are all dead from arrows. The reason for the killings are.....GILA MUNJA not the ANGEL GANG. Dredd and Fergie are attacked by the band of Gila Munja, dispatch a few of them but they are outnumbered. Fargo pops up and saves them before getting a final arrow through the chest.

A dying Fargo tells Dredd the truth about his clone-hood in the "Apollo" project, how it was Griffin's idea to clone Fargo to create the perfect Judge. It is also explained that Griffin secretly cloned Rico as a back-up to Dredd and that the clones had been tweaked to look different to hide this fact from Fargo. Rico performs better than Dredd but runs amok. Dredd arrrests him....you know the rest.

A doubting but soon reborn Dredd returns to the city wearing Fargo's duster coat, hat and badge. He and Fergie gain entrance to the city by Dredd posing as Fargo, returning Fergie as his prisoner from the shuttle crash.

Dredd and Fergie find the city in chaos under Griffin's inept yet still tyrannical regime. Rico and his gang of mutants seize the moment and begin their revolution by inciting a rebellion against Judges in the process of arresting the manager of an "Otto Sump Gungeteria" where a League of Fatties stuff their faces. Rico promises to liberate the citizens from Griffin and calls on all the cits and civillian defence corps to give him their weapons and stockpile them for a new militia.

Rico's army grows, taking sector by sector as the citizens overwhelm the Judges. Rico becomes more tyrannical than Griffin and takes over half the city while adorning himself with a new Nazi style Judge uniform. Dredd and Fergie decide to infiltrate Rico's militia by joining up. Meanwhile, within the embattled and cowering Council of Five, Griffin is forced to meet with Rico at an old location outside the Hall of Justice to discuss Rico's future as Chief Judge.

The meet is arranged.

Griffin is escorted by judges to the location (the old derelict cloning lab where the Apollo project took place) where Rico and his Militia arrive while a hit team consisting of Hershey and othe Judges scale the building taking positions to assassinate Rico. Dredd makes his way in. A shoot-out ensues after Rico tells Griffin what he wants and Griffin complies. Dredd, Hershey and Fergie escape during the bullet-fest into the uderground sewers as Rico, his army of perps and cits make their way to the Hall of Justice with Griffin at gunpoint.


In the sewers Dredd, Hershey and Fergie meet Fergie's old gang and a bunch of cadets who've hidden themselves from the chaos above. By burning torch-light they climb from the sewers into the "Museum of Justice" where they raid the old gun collection and Dredd adorns a display uniform; a cadet scratches "Dredd" upon the badge.


Dredd and his cadet/urchin army march with their torches on the Hall of Justice as embittered citizens swell their numbers with tire-irons and guns. They storm the gates battling Rico's army on the steps and make their way in as Rico attains the chains of office with the Council of Five at gun-point. Dredd and his army burst into the chamber, shoot the place up and by blowing a hole in the wall, Rico escapes and acquires a Lawmaster; Dredd follows likewise. They make it to the Statue of Judgement. They both climb it's inner structure, brawl, a hole is blown in the side and they fight on the top of the huge badge. They fall over on to the belt buckle below. Dredd blows Rico away and he falls into the torch of Liberty below where his body burns.


Fergie runs off with his gang and a dispensation. Hershey is made Chief Judge. Dredd returns to the streets.


No kiss but there is a smile.



It is a different script but it still ain't what a Dredd film should be and Dredd is still not Dredd, he's again portrayed as being a bit dumb; not nearly intimidating/authoritarian enough and they do try to humanise him but it is at least better than the complete mess that ended up as the film. Fergie's not wise-cracking as much, there's no Angel Gang, Joan Chen, ABC Warrior or clone army sub-plot either.

That wouldn't be a too bad a template for a sequel to Dredd.

[Kowalsky (formerly JudgeGumpty)]

I suppose Quality shit and Quantity shit even out.
I mean there is enough Floating around this board. Guilty as charged.





V

Tentatively  holds his hand up.

[Beaky Smoochies]

Fingers crossed then Beaky, that you won't be back in 7 months time saying how bad the next Dredd film is. Or do you already know something? Do you have inside information? Mmmm?

I'm only not commenting further on the 1995 movie, fonky dude, I've been nothing but enthusiastic - not to mention more than a little giddy with excitement - about the upcoming new film, and have stated as such on this forum many times, everything I've read and/or seen about Dredd leads me to believe it's going to be gangbusters...

[Beaky Smoochies]

Walon Green is not creditied on Wisher's original draft.

No, you're right there Joe, but I know for a fact he did work on the revised first draft, he pretty much streamlined Wisher's initial script, tightened it up, and changed some details around (as you can read by the differences between that early script and what ended up onscreen), his name was also credited alongside Wisher's on the revised second draft that DeSouza mangled wrote (the beginning of that project's fatal mistakes, IMHO).  I'll say this though, that Wisher script was clearly the script that Cannon signed up to do, and had they retained the core narrative of that draft (subsequent revisions notwithstanding), it would have been infinitely better than what ended up onscreen, and more than likely could've been better received upon release, it still may not have been the Judge Dredd film we wanted, but alas...

And just before I sign off on that film once and for all (and I mean it this time ), any chance you could mail me Wisher's script Joe, I would be eternally grateful, if you don't mind, that is...

[weehawk]

You know, once Dredd comes out and(hopefully)is recieved much better critically than the '95 film, it's going to be pretty interesting to see what Stallone has to say about it.

[Gonk]

My guess is after 17 years he has more than likely forgotten about it. It's only us obsessives on the forum who are really bothered about the old version, which as films go was pretty unmemorable.

[Goaty]

My guess is after 17 years he has more than likely forgotten about it. It's only us obsessives on the forum who are really bothered about the old version, which as films go was pretty unmemorable.

Just you.

[Gonk]

My guess is after 17 years he has more than likely forgotten about it. It's only us obsessives on the forum who are really bothered about the old version, which as films go was pretty unmemorable.

Just you.

Not at all. Some time ago, a couple of months before Christmas myself and the whole family were together wathcing our new T.V. . I suggested that we watched Stallones Judge Dredd on the DVD player as I thought it would look better on the new large LED tv we had just bought. Needless to say after ten minutes the rest of my family had left the room and found something else to do.

And I'd like to point out to you Goaty that the members of my family are intelligent enough to spot a turkey of a film when they see one.