The Political Thread

[The Legendary Shark]

When I first started this thread I did so with a deal of trepidation. I mean, politics is hard work. Wars have been fought over it. I was not the only one who feared that this thread would end in bitter recriminations, fire, brimstone and general destruction.
.
We've come close a time or two but so far we've done a fine job of avoiding all that and I think we've had some cracking discussions. I have had my perspectives broadened and my opinions challenged, amended or even abandoned because of the discussions I've read and participated in on this thread - and Great Kudos to the mods and to Rebellion for putting up with it.

.
I'm not criticising anyone here (for me to do so would not only be thoroughly inappropriate but also completely hypocritical), I simply offer the observation that this thread is at its best when we pick at the politics and not each other.

.
Now to start "The Religious Thread"... :-D

[Professor Bear]

UP YOU'RS BUMFACE

[Jim_Campbell]

NO! YUOR MUM !!1!!

[The Legendary Shark]

I love this thread.

[TordelBack]

Faggit.

[Old Tankie]

So, exactly where on the link you supplied, are the words "poor single mums"?  As I said, you're having a laugh

If don't know the difference between context and direct quotation that's unfortunate.

For you to criticise me for my lack of knowledge of the English language with the above sentence is taking the biscuit!  Are you sure we didn't go to the same school?!   

[Eric Plumrose]

Faggit.

Toff.

[The Legendary Shark]

So, it seems that 40% of English schools are fingerprinting their pupils with almost a third of them not asking for the required parental consent.

.
Now, I get that biometrics, when used properly and honestly, can be a great time-saver and a boon to the efficiency of school libraries, canteens and registers but - as with any technology - the opportunity for abuse (especially post-Snowden) is huge.

.
My greatest worry with this is the "Indoctrination Factor". Linked with other worrying things I have heard about from friends with children at school, such as random bag searches and 'isolation', fingerprinting seems just another form of conditioning. How will one defend or enjoy freedom and privacy when taught from an early age that there is no such thing?
.
The most important part of the fingerprinting process, the CHOICE of whether to consent or not, is trivialised, obscured or flatly ignored - reinforcing the myth that The System is your Ruler and eroding the truth that The System is your Servant.
.
We can teach our children to comply and raise a whole generation of good little consumers or we can teach them to think and call them human.

.
As an aside, one idea I love is to give schoolchildren a fractional vote as part of their education. Each person gets, for example, a full vote at the age of 18. Before that age, you get a fraction of a vote according to age: 17/18ths at 17, 8/9ths at 16, 15/18ths at 15 and so on right back to primary school. A whole "Modern Society" syllabus could be built around it, indoctrinating our future generations into the democratic process whilst also involving them in it and (bonus!) taking their views into account come election or referendum time.

.
Sorry, went off-topic a bit there. Anyhoo, here's a linkie for the fingerprinting in schools story:   www.bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/home/2014/01/one-million-pupils-fingerprinted-school.html#more-5794

[Hawkmumbler]

Faggit.

Toff.

[The Legendary Shark]

That's not how you take a fingerprint...

[Professor Bear]

As an aside, one idea I love is to give schoolchildren a fractional vote as part of their education. Each person gets, for example, a full vote at the age of 18. Before that age, you get a fraction of a vote according to age: 17/18ths at 17, 8/9ths at 16, 15/18ths at 15 and so on right back to primary school. A whole "Modern Society" syllabus could be built around it, indoctrinating our future generations into the democratic process whilst also involving them in it and (bonus!) taking their views into account come election or referendum time.

The problem with trying to indoctrinate someone at a young age is that they're just as likely to become vociferous and intransigent opponents of the practice as adults - not an equal chance of this happening, I grant you, more like one in ten, but it's still there.

----

A sad story this one, that once I gave it a moment's thought just makes me angrier and angrier: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/10/bedroom-tax-exemptions-stephanie-bottrill
You see, I know for a fact from personal experience that benefits office people lie to your face about what you are subject/entitled to - they are under instruction to do so from their employers.  What I don't see in coverage of this story is anyone asking if this elderly woman was lied to about her being exempt from the poll bedroom tax, but I do see an unusually open amount of discussion about the benefits office making the kind of mistake they normally dig their heels in and keep mum about.
In a way the government response is also what Sharky is talking about: conditioning us to accept our place, and that our government can now kill people through neglect or outright deception and there's not a thing we can do about it.

[TordelBack]

As an aside, one idea I love is to give schoolchildren a fractional vote as part of their education. Each person gets, for example, a full vote at the age of 18. Before that age, you get a fraction of a vote according to age: 17/18ths at 17, 8/9ths at 16, 15/18ths at 15 and so on right back to primary school. A whole "Modern Society" syllabus could be built around it, indoctrinating our future generations into the democratic process whilst also involving them in it and (bonus!) taking their views into account come election or referendum time.

Great idea this.  I'm not sure about the specific proportions, but the principle is fantastic.  My immediate reaction was that this disproportionately increases the voting power of domineering people who happen to have large families, but probably no more than is currently the case, and I suspect the benefits of an engaged electorate would outweigh such factors in any event.  I can guarantee that planning laws and tax-breaks for theme parks would be revised toot-sweet, and the election of Prez Rickard is just around the corner.

As to the fingerprint thing, sheesh, how depressing.  Schools spend enough of their time reinforcing systems of control and passive acquiesence without adding fingerprinting (which in itself seems laughably outdated when every kid's phone can be used to track their every move and interaction).  Although that said, at this point it's probably a foregone conclusion that any right to personal privacy is a thing of the past, so maybe delivering that lesson is part of a school's grim remit.  I've certainly taken to assuming that every thing I say and do will be taken down and used against me, maybe it would have been a good thing if I'd thought that way when I was younger and hornier.

[The Legendary Shark]

I too am a victim of the DWP. It has lied to me, bullied and threatened me to such an extent that I have been forced to reject it. I will claim not one more penny from it in its current piratical form.

.
My life's a lot harder now and the council's itching to evict me because I can't pay the rent - but I'm free of their bullshit now. Whatever they do to me must be without my consent and against my will. The indoctrination is already well underway if the attitude of the council official 'dealing' with me is anything to go by: He seems unable to even conceive of answering any question or responding to any point that isn't in the council's rule book. He seems genuinely offended by my questioning of the system and my suggestions for a resolution to our dispute. As if he is incapable of sensing the Real World and can see only rule books and spreadsheets. In the Real World, I don't have any money to speak of. In the Real World, council housing is for people who don't have a lot of money. In the Real World, I live in a council flat. In the spreadsheet world, there are not enough numbers in Cell 1A to balance out the numbers in Cell 1B - therefore I am too poor to live in housing designed for the poor. This is what we're up against, and it begins in school.

.
Be Productive.
.
Be Compliant.
.
Be Paid.

.

[TordelBack]

In the spreadsheet world, there are not enough numbers in Cell 1A to balance out the numbers in Cell 1B - therefore I am too poor to live in housing designed for the poor. This is what we're up against, and it begins in school.

Well put, Sharky.

[The Legendary Shark]

That Grauniad story was interesting.
.
If Mrs Bottrill had only hung on and let The System do its work! If only she'd trusted The System! How subtly this shifts the blame...
.
I note that the 'Under-Occupancy Charge" is referred to as a 'tax' throughout the article. It is not a tax, it is a charge. Herein stands the biggest elephant in the room. Taxes are legally unavoidable but charges are legally voluntary. This being so, anybody who chooses to pay the charge is free to do so and anyone who doesn't want to pay it is also free to do so.
.
But the article focuses on technicalities and nuances of the legislation, implying that the charge is a tax and therefore unavoidable no matter the form it takes or the Legalese from which it is constructed. And by focusing on the minutiae we are distracted from the most important question.
.
What if I say no?
.