The Political Thread

[Buttonman]

I used to love Paladin, Rusty the dog and Glen's floating 'space head'. No wait it was a pile o shite and they just showed the same crappy Disney trailers every week.

I can't wait for the Scottish Parliament to get more power - first it was no booze sold before 10am and now a 50p a unit minimum price for booze. Anyone would think they have a one track mind. What next lager to be renamed 'Gayboy Juice'to deter purchase? (thank you Frankie Boyle.)

[M.I.K.]

(Cartoon Cavalcade wasn't shown across all of Scotland, by the way.)

Aye it wis, just not every series. It was on STV and Grampian when I was watching it in the early '80s.

Oh and Cartoon Cavalcade was shite, cheap cartoons and a creepy lamp? Worse than the poll tax!

Pfft... No taste, some folk. How could anyone find fault with animation such as this?

[Beaky Smoochies]

England - Arrogant Racists who still think they have an empire
Irish - Thick
Scots - Violent penny pinching Alcoholics
Welsh - Good at singing about Leeks and in dire need of vowels

What about the Northern Irish, where do we fit in?

I'm all for Scottish independence me, five million less whingers in the U.K., and once yer gone (and not missed either), the Conservative/Unionist/UKIP bloc at Westminster will have an unreachable majority from then 'til the Second Coming... roll on the United Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland!

I can't wait for the Scottish Parliament to get more power - first it was no booze sold before 10am and now a 50p a unit minimum price for booze. Anyone would think they have a one track mind. What next lager to be renamed 'Gayboy Juice'to deter purchase? (thank you Frankie Boyle.)

... and then some dude!

[Trout]

I'm all for Scottish independence me, five million less whingers in the U.K., and once yer gone (and not missed either), the Conservative/Unionist/UKIP bloc at Westminster will have an unreachable majority from then 'til the Second Coming... roll on the United Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland!

I wish there was some sort of award that we could nominate posters for. This one's a real prize-winner.

[Roger Godpleton]

Frankly I would much rather keep Scotland over that ridiculous joke of a colony.

[Satanist]

What about the Northern Irish, where do we fit in?

Oh alright then...

Northern Irish - neither fish nor fowl, where do we fit in?

[Mikey]

What about the Northern Irish, where do we fit in?

The simple answer is we don't! The rest of the world sees us as Irish, whether you feel you are or not. (Doesn't bother me much as it happens. And I've got a UK passport). Or alternatively, a quick fixed! gives us;

Northern Irish - Thick, violent penny pinching alcoholic, arrogant racists who still think they're part of an empire or a republic. Good at singing and marching about opression or old battles and mangling of vowels. Some want to be Scottish, English or Irish and can easily find blame in the others perspective.

Incidently, Mrs Mikey researches representations of the Irish on stage, screen and in the media in the late 19th & early 20th Century. Some mental stuff that has the capacity to be at turns hilarious and blood boiling! It's all down to Gerald of Wales. He wants his teeth kicked in, that one.

To comment on the wider debate regarding idependence of the countries of the north east Atlantic Archipelago, I'd say we're all the same so why bother getting worked up about it? Fuck borders! We're all people, people!

I hereby promise to not add further to a debate about nationalism.

M.

[Roger Godpleton]

And we all have terrible food.

[Satanist]

To comment on the wider debate regarding idependence of the countries of the north east Atlantic Archipelago, I'd say we're all the same so why bother getting worked up about it? Fuck borders! We're all people, people!

THIS!

[Noisybast]

It is a *very* small group of islands...

[Hoagy]

I've just watched that programme where Arch Bishop Lang and the Old Gang conspire to oust King Edward VIII. There's a lot of people trying to hold onto history, disallowing history itself from happening, creating unnatural histories. I'd call it misguided but it should be a perfect excuse for calling it treason.

The King himself was a king that the 20th century needed. His trench warfare, his need for a fairer society and the respectful relationship (rather than the pandering Colony guilt one we've got) with America, all appeal to an imagined, better modernity. All twisted to being something gauche and naive by rhetoric clerics. What a shame Edward was too reasonable.

[Frank]

I'm all for Scottish independence me, five million less whingers in the U.K., and once yer gone (and not missed either), the Conservative/Unionist/UKIP bloc at Westminster will have an unreachable majority from then 'til the Second Coming... roll on the United Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland!

I wish there was some sort of award that we could nominate posters for. This one's a real prize-winner

Roger's name has already been engraved on the trophy you have in mind. Beaky; advice on the successful division of an island from an NI man? The Brits don't have a great track record on separation: whether it's the partition of India/Pakistan, Palestine/Israel, or our exit from the African continent, we've made the Koreans and Sudanese look like they possess the wisdom of Solomon.

Linda Colley's highly readable Britons: Forging the Nation 1707-1837 describes how until fairly recently (in historical terms) local and regional identities (village or county) were far more important to peoples' sense of who they were. The long project of creating a unifying British identity, she argues, was made possible by uniting and defining ourselves in opposition to 'others' through war (chiefly with France), religion (persecution of Catholics), and through Empire (economic opportunities and sense of shared pride in punching above our weight).

You could argue that Wales and Scotland were the first English colonies, and that domestic independence movements are just the last stages in the dismantling of the English Empire, but I think that if there's any value at all in the weird creation that is British national identity it's in allowing us to think beyond things like village, county, regional and national borders and see that mutual interest is a stronger tie than geographical proximity.

It seems to me that I've got more shared interests with 'others' working in a poorly paid job- or who like reading and music- in Aberdeen, London, New York or Tokyo than the arbitrary drawing of lines on a map would suggest. Precisely where and by whom decisions that affect our social, political and economic interests are taken seems less important than our ability to influence the people we elect to make those decisions on our behalf and keep the fuckers honest.

P.S. MacNeil, thanks for the reply; but when I tell you you're a legend, you'll accept that you're a legend and fucking-well like it!

[Old Tankie]

How is it an English Empire?  Perhaps I mis-read my history books about the thin red line of Highlanders and about the Irish regiments serving under Wellington at Waterloo and other places.  Of course, the great man himself was born in Ireland.  But, hey yeah, let's just blame the English for everything.  Don't know why anyone's surprised about the breakup of the United Kingdom, it started nearly a hundred years ago.

[Frank]

How is it an English Empire?  Perhaps I mis-read my history books about the thin red line of Highlanders and about the Irish regiments serving under Wellington at Waterloo and other places.  Of course, the great man himself was born in Ireland.  But, hey yeah, let's just blame the English for everything.  Don't know why anyone's surprised about the breakup of the United Kingdom, it started nearly a hundred years ago.

I didn't realise I was making an accusation, Tankie. The Scots, Welsh and Irish were among the most enthusiastic participants in the Imperial project. Not just militarily (as you point out), but economically, industrially, politically and intellectually, they were often the force behind the drive to turn the world's map pink. Whether you think that makes them culpable, or to "blame" as you put it, for anything depends on your opinion concerning the legacy of Empire.

The only reason to characterise it as the English Empire would be if you take the point of view I referred to in my post, that the English military conquest of Ireland and Wales- and the political integration of a bankrupt Scotland- allows them to be figured as the first colonies of an Empire that revolved around the twin hubs of the Square Mile of the City of London and the court of King James.

As my post indicated, I was referencing- rather than endorsing- that point of view.

[Old Tankie]

Yep, sorry, Mate, bit a bit too quickly there.  I take your point.