As you were - which is a very good thing.
Dredd see more revelations and horrors. This is utterly gripping and wonderfully realised.
Defoe ... well it has words and pictures so it has a place here I guess... just none of them have an impact on me in any cohesive or emotional way.
Brink is just the opposite, everything about this is about the quiet and sometimes less than quiet impact. Just so well excecuted. The transition between pages 1 and 2 just needs to be used as a lesson to all storytellers.
Hope is brilliant and dark and tense and fantastic.
Fall of Deadworld is over the top meladrama of the very best kind.
So as I say almost exactly as we were. 4 for 5 and those 4 make it feel like a five for... reviewing the Prog these days is getting a bit samey, but what a good samey.
(https://i.imgur.com/ON0AWVN.jpg)
Clint Langley cover
I have to agree with you Colin, this series of Defoe isn't doing anything for me. It suffers from the same problem as anything Langley tends to do on the art front, bombard the reader with detail. For me this is the main reason why I have pretty much given up on Slaine and Warriors. I'm sure there are some good ideas in there somewhere but I'm past caring.
As for the rest of the prog, again we are in complete agreement. Where Defoe lingers too long, Brink is too soon over for another week. As for Dredd, I'm still trying to get my head around the inferences in this weeks episode with regards to the individuals Beeny encounters. Perhaps I am misreading some of the 'family way' references there. Looks like Wagner is about to drop another revelation on us.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 19 October, 2019, 06:00:55 PM
So as I say almost exactly as we were. 4 for 5 and those 4 make it feel like a five for... reviewing the Prog these days is getting a bit samey, but what a good samey.
I agree exactly. It's a testament to how good the rest of the prog is that I'm enjoying it immensely even though I'm skipping one story entirely (and I literally
never skip stories).
A shame that Pg1/Pg2 transition in Brink couldn't have come on a page turn, but I'm sure that would have occurred to TMO — sometimes the pagination just won't play ball.
(https://i.imgur.com/2siKJqr.png?2)
(https://i.imgur.com/0nElOcL.png?2)
In the case of The Simpsons (https://youtu.be/jFD8RfQ7E6Q), The Hate Box is a reverse-whimsical play on the phrase hat box. There's also Rudebox (https://youtu.be/1l52QZmN1Gs), even if I wish there wasn't.
Where's my prog? (Calhab)
Quote from: Southstreeter on 22 October, 2019, 04:44:08 PM
Where's my prog? (Calhab)
Ditto...Progmuda Triangle strikes again!
Well well well, Dredd, didn't see that coming :o - amazing, just keeps delivering & building, wowzers! :)
There's always a [spoiler]clone[/spoiler]! Of all the speculation I've read about Dying Hershey's last request, this wasn't one of them, so typically unexpected of John Wagner, then.
That misdirection continued right up to the reveal, for me, since America Jara's daughter encountering a silhouetted Latinx woman with long, dark hair suggested a different identity.
SOMETHING HAPPENED IN BRINK! Four series in and still breaking new ground*. Not sure I can say the same of Hope - the character's been through the mill, we've learnt about his past and met the villain, but this doesn't feel like the halfway point of a story.
That sense of stasis seems to be a distinguishing characteristic of Guy Adams' work. I didn't not-like Max Normal or Hope S1, but they offered more running time than incident.
Ironically, Deadworld and Defoe, strips about the undead, kick the comic into life with much munching and bang-bang.
I can't remember if this week's zombie orgy is the first time El Millsio has explored the idea that any new development will inevitably be co-opted by the sex industry (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2002/mar/03/internetnews.observerfocus), but**, the idea of using the undead to power inverse orgone accumulators (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich#Orgonomy)*** is droll.
* I'm being hilarious and Brink's very good, but Abnett's taken a deliberate decision to pace the strip significantly slower than his other work and most other 2000ad stories. In terms of plot, but especially with regard to action and incident.
** leaving aside the question of how the genitals of creatures with no circulation function
*** Zombone accumulators? Zomboners?
Not sure if it's just me, but I am now totally lost by Deadworld. I am still reading it, mainly because I never skip anything.
When did Sydney become more dead?
When did Fairfax become a dark judge? And how come he seems able to resist acting full on dark judge?
Has Psiren swapped sides?
Probably need to pull out the back Progs.
Dredd has so interesting twists and the mechanism angle was just a distraction.
Moore's art on Defoe is continuing to improve.
I am really enjoying this season of Hope. I like the way as the story progress that more are revealed about Hope's pass and who he is (this was maybe one thing that was missing from everyone's favorite Skip Tracer)
Brink is on the move after the long introduction sequence. A joy to read as always.
5/5 again for me
Quote from: Magnetica on 23 October, 2019, 02:23:10 PM
Not sure if it's just me, but I am now totally lost by Deadworld. I am still reading it, mainly because I never skip anything.
When did Sydney become more dead?
When did Fairfax become a dark judge? And how come he seems able to resist acting full on dark judge?
Has Psiren swapped sides?
Probably need to pull out the back Progs.
Not a bad idea, you'll only need to go back to the previous book
Damned from 2018 (Prog 2081-2092), and maybe the 2018 and 2019 Christmas progs. it's really very good.
Quoting myself from a few weeks back aboput Death's death:
QuoteNasty little Tek scrote Casey conspired with the Sisters, who felt Sssidney was getting too big for his bones. Death was chopped up by the Elena-Kurakin-like Martinez, one of Jes' allies, and some of Casey's zombie-golems, and then Casey blasted him with a big gun. I think this is Sidney's first 'death' since he decayed into the role, but have no Fear, he'll work out how to possessss a new host shortly.
Fairfax was captured and dosed with the dead fluidssss, but it's clear he hasn't fully succumbed. That's what Jess and the gang are doing in Sector 13, rescuing him.
Sister Psiren had her head shaken up by a mindmeld with the Resistance psi Agatha Proudwater, and has recovered some of her old self. The mysterious Third Sister incarnated in Byke probably had a hand too.
OK, I'm gonna have to call in back-up to help with the Elinora Garcia page.
1. Is there some backstory I should know about? (apart from Hershey's enigmatic death-bed comment)
2. 'Another mother' - confusing phrase. Is the implication Elinora's a clone?
3. Am I missing a wider plot point - why did Uno take Beeny to see her? Simply as an example of how the robot regime treats humans? And of so, why a clone of Hershey? If she is cloned from Hershey, do the robots know this?
4. Uno's comment about the entrance being too narrow for his robots seems a bit pat. Was it a clumsy invention by John Wagner in order to allow Beeny and Elinora to have a conversation on their own? Or did Uno leave them alone for a reason?
Bit lost, sorry.
Quote from: norton canes on 25 October, 2019, 11:30:40 AM
Bit lost, sorry.
Dredd makes an as-yet unexplained reference to finding "the grandchildren" in the preceding episode, so I'm assuming that this is Hershey's daughter (clone or natural, we don't know) and the grandchildren are the ones stolen by the robot regime... but none of this has been made explicit yet, so patience is in order!
Understood. Entering stealth mode.
I'm kind of glad that I have this forum to fill me in on bits that I've either forgotten or not understood. I'd forgotten about the grandchildren remark, and indeed that Byke was possessed.
Really, really enjoying Guatemala. It has the potential to be a classic on the level of Mandroid or Sin City (the Dredd one, obviously, not the one that steered Frank Miller to becoming a lecherous old racist).
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 25 October, 2019, 11:35:32 AM
none of this has been made explicit yet, so patience is in order!
Potentially spoilery speculation: [spoiler]My money is on Hershey having had a child the old-fashioned way and the 'other mother' reference is because she had the child adopted by someone in the (pre-robot takeover) safer environs of Guatemala, beyond the reach of those who might try to attack her as Chief Judge by targetting her child.
This would explain Dredd's uncharacteristically equivocal response to being propositioned. The realisation that everyone he respected or thought of as a friend (Fargo, Giant, now Hershey) thought the celibacy rule was bloody stupid and basically ignored it might give him pause, in the later stage of his life, to ponder a very different life that might have been his.[/spoiler]
And if any of that turns out to be correct, that's some heavyweight shit
I certainly wasn't expecting from this story.
Just called by to say how excellent I think the prog is right now.
Having Brink would be enough for me, but add in Hope, the current Dredd and by crikey it's hitting the very top. I'm enjoying Deadworld a lot and Defoe is going grand but they can't compete with that triumvir of Thrills.
Regarding Dredd - my jaw actually dropped a bit. And that would be my thoughts too Jim. Hard to not draw the inference from 'I can't do that'.
I assumed this mini-Hershey and CJ Hershey were clones of the same old lady (also called Hershey), but Wagner does love a bit of the old U-J, too.
If mini-Hershey was the product of a night of passion, I'm not sure why there'd be another lady (Hershey's age or older) in Guatemala.
Beeny says CJ Hershey was* also mini-Hershey's mother. I took that to mean in the clone-mother sense, but I suppose a naturally conceived mini-Hershey could have been left with a relative she thought of as her mother.
(https://i.imgur.com/9KnuvTf.png?2)
Either way, it's pretty exciting - when's the last time you can remember us all having one of these conversations, where we're so excited to find out what happens next we take to the internet to spout fan theories, like all those Youtubers who were convinced Rey=English=Kenobi?
MAIN CHARACTERS WHO TURNED OUT TO HAVE SECRET KIDS (Wagner)
Rico, Giant, Mean Angel, Fink Angel, Chopper (turned out not to be), Kimble (adopted)
CHARACTERS WHO TURNED OUT TO HAVE SECRET CLONES (Wagner)
Dredd, Owen Krysler, Sinfield
Can't mention secret clones without crediting The Internet's Ian Hollingsworth** who points out Megazine readers have already been treated to a story about Hershey's secret clone - Nurture (https://i.imgur.com/a3foWfa.jpg), by Williams & Holden (Meg 339). I'd never read that story before.
* Actually, Beeny uses the present tense - "there is another woman called Hershey". Gentlemen, start your theories.
** Surely the supreme authority on all things 2000ad (including tat and editorial content)
Maybe she's Dredd and Hershey 's child!
The sly old dog!!!! :o
I'm betting clone - Beeny remarks something to the effect that she looks like she could be Hershey's double.
Intriguing - didn't see this development coming at all, but it does make Hershey's deathbed request of putting down the robot rebellion make a lot more sense given that there's clearly more going on here.
Although reading Jim's speculation makes me think he may be on to something...
Quote from: dweezil2 on 25 October, 2019, 07:42:03 PM
Maybe she's Dredd and Hershey 's child! The sly old dog!!!! :o
Or maybe Dredd's
"I can't do that" was a literal statement of the truth. Get your prostate checked, guys.
Quote from: Frank on 25 October, 2019, 07:58:46 PM
Quote from: dweezil2 on 25 October, 2019, 07:42:03 PM
Maybe she's Dredd and Hershey 's child! The sly old dog!!!! :o
Or maybe Dredd's "I can't do that" was a literal statement of the truth. Get your prostate checked, guys.
Dredd doing an impotence commercial would be quite something!!!! :o :lol:
"These days it's not just my daystick that stays hard or my lawgiver that fires straight and true!"
No ED for JD
I'd like to think this is simpler than we're making out - any scandal involving children would surely have come to light during one of the three Chief Judge elections she contested. The 'other Hershey' is either a twin sister, or Hershey herself is one of a number of clones (seems unlikely, I seem to recall reference to her parents), or a clone of Hershey started when she herself was still at the Academy.
By my reckoning Hershey was around 60 at the time of her death in 2141, having been a recent Academy graduate in 2102(?), during the Judge Child mission. We know that Justice Dept had taken samples of he DNA for cloning, as they did with many exemplary judges (and Sinfield) - she actually ends up executing one of her own clones grown from one such stolen sample in the Rob Williams story referenced in Franks post.
So let's say Elionara is early 30s at the very youngest, born around 2110, having kids around 2127-2129 (12-14). If she's the child of a Justice Dept Hershey clone (born 2090s) of Barbara Hershey, that clone would have to have been started while Barbs was still in the academy, accelerated, and possibly washed out of the Academy young (maybe a UJ pregnancy?).
This all seems a bit too unlikely: the simplest answer has to be that the 'other Hershey' is either a twin sister, or Hershey herself was one of a number of clones.
Or time travel. There's always time travel.
Quote from: TordelBack on 25 October, 2019, 08:54:50 PM
... the simplest answer has to be that the 'other Hershey' is either a twin sister, or Hershey herself was one of a number of clones
Star Wars fan reckons it's all about twins! When I said 'clone-
mother' (above), I meant in the same sense that Dredd's Vienna's clone-father. Or maybe the sense that Rico and Dredd* could be described as Rico II's clone-fathers.
CJ Hershey could have been cloned from the old lady called Hershey, who gave natural birth to mini-Hershey (the Dredd>Vienna relationship)
Or they could
all be clones (the Rico/Dredd>RicoII relationship) and Beeny only used the word
mother to refer to the emotional relationship between mini-Hershey and the old, dead Hershey who raised her.
Regarding stuff we know about CJ Hershey's origins, the Admirable
Hollingsworth dimly remembers something about a sister from one of those
Megazine solo stories and the sequence below in
From The Ashes (Meg 3.74)**
(https://i.imgur.com/zz6F9WP.png?2)
* and Fargo and Kraken
** Neither were by John Wagner, and we know how beholden he feels to developments originating with other authors.
Quote from: Frank on 25 October, 2019, 09:56:37 PM
CJ Hershey could have been cloned from the old lady called Hershey, who gave natural birth to mini-Hershey (the Dredd>Vienna relationship)
That doesn't work.
CJ Hershey and the old lady called Hershey (who gave natural birth to mini-Hershey) could have been cloned from the same source (the Dredd>Vienna relationship) apologies for the double-post
Well I'm all up to date now and it's been a pretty good 4/5 for me in this run.
DREDD, BRINK and HOPE press all of my buttons all of the time, yet each is so different. DREDD is especially good at the moment - as the speculation above testifies. But let's shout Colin's art particularly for the emotional heft he gets into it.
I really don't like the art and storytelling in DEFOE. And i have problems with the storytelling in DEFOE (but some of the individual panels are brilliant).
What to add to the above? This is good proggage!
Hope Book One is on sale at the moment... I think I might have to pick up a copy. Largely driven off how well Book 2 is coming along.
As for Dredd and Brink, crikey blimey they're on good form. Defoe and Deadworld too are rather good.
Happy to say every strip is good for me - and so much to read and ponder in every one!
Thought the cover was a bit dull, but i think that's mainly because the distinctive elements (heads on poles, magical symbols) were quite obscured by the wordy bits, so at first glance it's just a near-silhouetted head on a red background. That's about the closest thing to negative I can muster for the whole prog!
Neat segue to Hope itself, the strip I'm probably least excited about, and even so it's a very good read. I get the feeling that if this had run in the prog around 1989-1991 (the years, not the prog) I'd have been obsessed with it - it's like a Revere or a Brigand Doom that actually makes some kind of sense, the alt.history is right up my street, and the art is so very stylish. Coming to it as a jaded fart that mainly likes a good story, I still have no real sense of why I should care about Hope and his demon nun. It doesn't stop me enjoying it week to week, but maybe I should do a re-read.
Deadworld remains one of the most brilliantly sustained premises of recent years, playing its own twisted version of Dredd history against a cast of distinctive characters and a roster of backstabbing villains, all rendered in such a bleak and magnificently disgusting way. Sov invasion force versus the unholy footsloggers of the Dark Judges, I could drink this stuff down every week.
Brink this week is a terrific slice of procedural with such neatly defined characters and believable interactions. Oh Kurtis, may you never tire of chasing homicidal loonies into the grubby bowels of orbitals!
In Defoe Moore and Mills seem to feed off each other in an escalating spiral of madness. So different to the gritty detail of Gallagher's work and the almost period feel of MacNeil's beautifully washed pages, this is as arcane and grotesque as this storyline demands.
I am a little dubious about the Nerve Centre's claim that this is set in 1668 - surely so much has happened since the strip started that we can't still be only 2 years on from the Comet and the Great Fire?
Dredd I've touched on, but suffice to say it continues to be intriguing, gorgeous stuff.
Quote from: TordelBack on 26 October, 2019, 12:17:04 AMd have been obsessed with it - it's like a Revere or a Brigand Doom that actually makes some kind of sense,
Oy! I'm not having that. Revere was an epic, haunting tale of a post-apocalyptic Messiah, and one of the stories that kept me reading through the prog's difficult teens. Brigand Doom was just a poor man's V for Vendetta.
I'll rephrase that - Revere and Brigand Doom made no sense to me.
Quote from: DrJomster on 25 October, 2019, 10:52:36 PM
Hope Book One is on sale at the moment... I think I might have to pick up a copy. Largely driven off how well Book 2 is coming along.
Halfway through yesterday's bargain £5 purchase of Book One and it's holding up very nicely indeed! Reads well collected.
Quote from: TordelBack on 26 October, 2019, 09:58:23 PM
I'll rephrase that - Revere and Brigand Doom made no sense to me.
Fair enough, can't really argue with that. That said, your opinion is wrong and mine is right, so you'd probably best change yours to mine.