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Author Topic: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread  (Read 183113 times)

broodblik

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1065 on: 16 January, 2021, 06:36:54 PM »
The problem with the current Sin/Dex series is mostly not its own making but rather a scheduling issue. The main problem with this is that it does not read 100% coherent and a few episodes we had was almost a recap rather than pushing the story forward. For me Sin/Dex is Abnett’s weakest entry I would rather him focus on more The Out and Brink. I also would like to see the return of both Kingdom and Grey Area. So yes, I understand the love of a long running series but sometimes you have to put something to bed. Sin/Dex is not a bad strip and I always find a readable, but I would really like Abnett to give the story a proper send-off (one which such a long running strip deserves).
Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.

Dark Jimbo

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1066 on: 17 January, 2021, 12:26:17 PM »
For me Sin/Dex is Abnett’s weakest entry I would rather him focus on more The Out and Brink. I also would like to see the return of both Kingdom and Grey Area. So yes, I understand the love of a long running series but sometimes you have to put something to bed. Sin/Dex is not a bad strip and I always find a readable, but I would really like Abnett to give the story a proper send-off (one which such a long running strip deserves).

Yep - at this point Sin/Dex is by far Abnett's weakest still-running creation (a testament to his evolution as a writer). As you say, I'd happily take a new series of The Out, Brink, Lawless, Kingdom or Grey Area - literally any of them - over yet more Sin/Dex, which feels a bit written-for-the-sake-of-it these days.

Sorry Colin!

broodblik

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1067 on: 17 January, 2021, 12:33:53 PM »
One of the biggest problems a writer faced is how to end a story (especially when it has been ongoing for more than 25 years). Abnett has involved into one of the best comic-book writers out there. He creates interesting worlds with interesting characters. I see that we will get more of Feral and Foe after the current batch of stories. This is another one of those interesting new editions to Abnett's already  strong resume.
Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1068 on: 17 January, 2021, 01:00:08 PM »
I've long held onto this video where Dan Abnett talks about his favourite things (writing wise) and sure its almost 12 years old and sure he's developed so many important and wonderful strips since then but in my head he still holds to what he says around the 2 minute mark, which gives me faith much as many disagree I'll always have it and you folks are alas stuck with it.

https://youtu.be/91bn5VLYlEM

TordelBack

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1069 on: 17 January, 2021, 01:03:45 PM »
Personally I don't see how or why Sinister Dexter 'needs' an end. The 4 or 5 long-running story arcs it's had aside (Eurocrash/Downlode Tales, ...Dumb Minions/Malone, War of the Moses, Generican Dream, The AIs Have It*), its real strength is as a vehicle for stylish, witty tales. It's not like it's ever been a grand narrative, or even a character journey - its just amusing violent situations, two charming psychopaths & their associates, and excruciating puns.

If people really have had enough of that (I haven't) then it can just wrap up current plot lines and stop. For a while, or forever, whichever way Dan sees fit. Killing off a strip that's never aspired to be one overall story seems... wasteful

There's no need, or really even a place, for a grand finale, or even a conclusion. A conclusion to what? We wouldn't ask it of Dennis the Menace, we didn't ask it of Calvin & Hobbes.

Personally I just want to see the strip given a good long run, but I accept that may not be a majority position.


*NB: may not be actual name, but I mean everything after the boys returned from Generica/another reality.

TordelBack

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1070 on: 17 January, 2021, 01:06:14 PM »
EDIT: Oops, just watched Colin's link. Well, most of my ramble is unaffected...

broodblik

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1071 on: 17 January, 2021, 01:23:39 PM »
I've long held onto this video where Dan Abnett talks about his favourite things (writing wise) and sure its almost 12 years old and sure he's developed so many important and wonderful strips since then but in my head he still holds to what he says around the 2 minute mark, which gives me faith much as many disagree I'll always have it and you folks are alas stuck with it.

https://youtu.be/91bn5VLYlEM

Quite an interesting interview. I rather have him still scripting for AD than not even if he continues Sin/Dex for the next 25 years.
Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1072 on: 17 January, 2021, 05:25:47 PM »


Into Prog - 1850 Part 1 - Dredd

There's a lot going on with the line -up running up to Prog 1850. We get the third and final stories of both Age of the Wolf and Ten-seconders, we get The books of Scars, we get Defoe. I'm going to talk about a few of these as I take one of my traditional breaks - this time to read more Grendel and some old(ish) Shadow comics. The first thing i want to talk about though is something I almost over looked...

... see sometimes I'm guilty of taking Dredd for granted. Its there, its normally good, its often great and at times its exceptional. When you get great Dredd I'm guilty of not commenting on it much, cos you know its Dredd, its often great. For some reason the run of thrills up between 1837 and 1849 - which is all great (not exceptional) has struck a cord though. There are three very different stories

Wasteland - By Wagner and Dave Taylor in which a billionaire believes he can out fox the judges using a web of contacts to mask his murderous attempts to better a property deal - the property being block isolated in the post Day of Chaos wasteland (of the title).

Savengers - By Rob Williams and Carl Critchlow in which a squad of judges dive in to the submerged ruins of Luna City 2. The crashed God City from Trifecta, as confliciting sides try to take control of its aresenl and a  sensitive klegg comes to Dredd's aid.

Bender by Wagner and Willsher - a cross over with Futrama in which crew from Planet Express nose dive into Mega City One and... alas no - that's a crossover I would pay to see. In this case Bender is a hard judge pushed over the edge and his straight and true new partner back from injury. The of course come into messy conflicit with each other.

Okay so there's a lot of Wagner, but that's not the only reason these stories stood out to me. I think one of the key things is that these tales all deal with sold Dredd tropes, but do it very well. Wasteland returning to the ways the Justice Department and particularly Dredd, use their wily ways to crack organised crime. Often helped by the simple arrogrance of the crimelords

Second in Savengers we get a crack squad influtraing and combat situation, meeting and interesting charater lost in the middle and Dredd comes out.

Finally Bender - the classic bent cop going to far and becoming an over violent law unto themselves.

All these tropes are given fresh life by their respective creators. Particularly the ending of Bender which plays with the more vulernable Dredd we've seen from DoC forward. The ability of the series to support exciting stories, even when immersed in old ideas, is testament to its brilliant thrilling concept and world that's been created over the years. The fact that each of these well trodden roads is testament to the creators that work with him. The fact that William's story is as successful as Wagners' testament to the folly of the idea that no one but Wagner should write the character - not that Wagner's take is brilliant and consummate. The fact that three great Dredd stories is something I'm in danger of taking for granted is testament to how much wonderful stuff we've had over the years and how many wonderful thrill Tharg has in his locker these days.

I should also make reference to the wonderfully diverse art. Taylor, Critchlow and Willsher are all on top of their form. What's more impressive is how each strip seems hand picked for the strip they do. Taylor all cityscapes and lurid charatcers. Critchlow a crocked broken, world hidden beneath other world depth full of monsters. Willsher anger, agression and violent energy. Its almost as if the editor's been doing this for years and knows his stuff perfectly!

The other sign of the embarrassment of richs we have playing in Tharg's kingdom is this is just great Dredd not exceptional Dredd!

SmallBlueThing(Reborn)

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1073 on: 17 January, 2021, 05:40:06 PM »
Can I just add my name to the people who would find it very displeasing were SiniDex to end. And further, with the probable upcoming (or already seen) end to Slaine, The ABC Warriors, Savage, Defoe, Flesh, etc, I would suggest 2000AD needs SiniDex more than ever. For continuity at the very least.

Would I prefer more The Out, Kingdom, Feral & Foe, Grey Area over SiniDex? No- I want them all. Someone needs to arrange for Dabnett to have a 'leaky superglue in his back pocket accident'* while sitting in his cubicle.

SBT

*at least that's what I told my wife it was after we bumped into Mr Abnett last time.
 

Funt Solo

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1074 on: 17 January, 2021, 05:42:32 PM »
It really is about time we get some of the 3rillers collected, isn't it?

Did I dream that had happened? Was it in one of the floppies?

Not a dream, the floppy with Meg 403 collected:
  • In Seconds Flat
  • Station To Station
  • Apocalypse Anonymous
  • Mindmines

I keep wondering if a book of these in the Ultimate Collection might be a thing. They seem like a perfect candidate.

And Meg 371 had:

  • Six Brothers
  • 15
  • The Ghostship Mathematica
  • Gunheadz

And Meg 382 had:

  • Wolves
  • 1947
  • Rewind
  • Colony

And Meg 383 had Voodoo Planet.
++ map ++ thrills ++ coma ++

Funt Solo

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1075 on: 17 January, 2021, 05:47:37 PM »
And Sinister Dexter did end, in 2011:




Then they did find their way back. So, if you want to know what the ending was like, it was already written.
++ map ++ thrills ++ coma ++

broodblik

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1076 on: 17 January, 2021, 05:57:20 PM »
Book of Scars Path three was this the last time that Mike did art duties in prog and I am not talking about covers (he did a cover in 2018 for prog 2079)?
Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.

broodblik

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1077 on: 17 January, 2021, 06:02:17 PM »
And Sinister Dexter did end, in 2011:




Then they did find their way back. So, if you want to know what the ending was like, it was already written.

For the 25 year celebration it was a bit different (so if you have not read up until this part do not scroll down):








Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1078 on: 19 January, 2021, 09:12:39 PM »


Book 3 is the magic number

As we run into 1850 two books with checked pasts (for different reasons) hit there third and final books. Both of which are by far the best of the series to date. Age of the Wolf III - Wolfworld is solid. Its not great, but its continues well what this series has done of flipping to completely different points of the tale. In fact its structured like Ghostship Mathematica. Each element feels fresh and its own. Just each book of Age of the Wolf hasn't felt entirely successful. I'm not quite sure why, there's nothing wrong with it persay it just feels a little loose and uninspiring. Which given its ingrediants of a post apocolyptic werewolve horror is pretty surprising. I have to be honest while John Davis-Hunt art is the best its been, but it doesn't sell things to me. It doesn't feel whole and convincing. I do worry that detracts from the story.

Ten-seconders - Godsend on the other hand is an almost perfect ending. After a decent start, a very rocky middle the ending - with the stakes in this superheroes as impossibly powerful and violent alien invaders, somehow raised up and then some. It feels like an entirely superlative, meladramatic, hyper-reality ending to it all. Rob Williams manages to do what Jack Kirby did so very well in the work he wrote himself. He blasts your imagination apart with his ultra-reality mindbending concepts. Yet manages to ground it all with down to earth with gritty and seemingly real characters who make all the God spinning cosmicness feel important and human.

The real star though is Edmund Bagwell in what I think tragically is his last work for Tharg. He managers to convey all that. All the mindbending Kirbyesque Hyper-reality uberwonder and he grounds it with real, tight, earthed characters. Rob Williams might give him the stuff to draw in the script, but I simply can't imagine almost any, if any artist who could deliver it quite as well as Bagwell. Its one of 2000ad's most astonishing art jobs. Yet we don't talk about it. I'm not sure why. We talk about Cradlegrave and the brilliance of his world there - quite rightly. We talk about Indigo Prime and the brilliance of his inter-dimenions there - quite rightly. We really should, absolutely talk about this strip where he, to my absolute amazement, manages to perfectly combine his brillance on both those very different strips here.

Oh of course this is Ten-Seconders so there are artistic hiccups - see you book 2 - as Ben Wilsher does a solid job of keeping the train moving for two episodes towards the end. But Edmund Bagwell's work here - even given that - is some of the best ever to grace the Prog.

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1079 on: 27 January, 2021, 09:34:58 AM »


BUMP smmmooothhhhh BUMP smmooothhhh BUMP

The title tries to capture what reading the last run of thrill of 2013 is like. The nuGolden Age hits some bumps in the road.

ITS THE END! THE PROG HAS BEEN IN DECLINE SINCE DANTE ENDED!

I hear some commentators cry - and POPPYCOCK is my response. Well of course everyone is entitled to hold that view. Anyone can genuinely mean it and feel that is the case... but I can still cry POPPYCOCK!!!

Lets examine the evidence of why this is poppycock. The tail end of 2013 is one of the weakest line-ups since I declared NuGolden Age.

Dredd - there's some decent Dredd, but its not mind blowing as Mike Carroll and Paul Davidson bring Joyce Jr along for a trip to the Underworld to fight the Goblin King and T C Eglington and Karl Richardson take us to some monstrous goings on in a relief camp. Its fine. Dredd can so often be so much more than that though.

Flesh - Badlanders - I've long defended this latter day Flesh. I mean its cowboys vs dinosaurs you have to try to make that not work for me. But everyone seems pretty much like they are running out of steam here. James McKay starts to get art assists as I believe he's being run off the strip - which is a shame as I love this art. Uncle Pat is slipping increasingly in Millsisms I for one am getting more and more tired of. The script makes its feel increasingly like the dinosaurs and cowboys are getting in the way with Pat's polemics and he's having to lever things into to keep it on track. I track he likes and I don't. Such a shame.

Damnation Station - Now this strip is a problem for me. I don't like it. the trouble is I feel bad for not liking it as I appreciate its a smart, fresh way to tell a tale. I just find it obtuse and it doesn't gell at all. I want to like this. I try to like this but as I read it I drift and its finer points bounce of a shield of lack of engagement. The thing is I know smarter folk than me love this and if that kinda strip is the biggest problem in a lull in the NuGolden Age then the NuGolden Age is in far better shape that the Original Golden Age!

Aquila - Where all roads lead Another one I want to like more. I mean like cowboys and dinosaurs a story set in Empirial Rome is a slam dunk for me and i don't dislike this at all... it just... doesn't engage me the way it should. Its pretty good, its okay... it should be GREAT.

There's a 3riller with Jesus Redondo art - wayhey - and a decent story by Robert Murphy (don't think we see him again?) but nothing compared to some of these short but sweet tales we've had of late.

Then there's Brass Sun magnificent Brass Sun. Wren, Septimus and Ramkin are the perfect atypical 2000ad cast, grumpily avoiding any of the comics tropes. The world's they inhabit are fantastic rich and alive with co-stars of equal quality. This is a simply magnificent thrill and as Wren touchs a soul we get then building blocks of what's to come all in place. Christ I miss this thrill.

So yeah still got three issues to read which I suspect will get increasingly fillered as we run the year down (we'll see). There's nothing terrible here. All the strips have at least redemning features - its just really weak compared to what we've got used to. But as someone said here if this quality of thrill is what we get when we've in a lull we are in magnificent shape overall.

End of the new age Poppycock!