Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 

Author Topic: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread  (Read 196600 times)

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 18096
  • testing testing...
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1125 on: 18 May, 2021, 09:34:36 PM »


Brink

So Prog 1992 brings Brink to an end after 15 episodes. Its kinda hard to sum up why its so good. Arguably the best new thrill in 2000ad since... well since what would be the question. I've already mentioned that its different to what's been in the Prog before, so thats one thing.

Second - the art is magnificent. Tight and claustrophobic. Modern and yet classic. The colours are perfect and scream not just atmosphere but make the environment feel solid and alive. The best of it is the arting INJ Culbard does. The story is all about moments and interactions, the dialogue is sparce when it needs to be, as INJ can carry the load. When its dense his visuals sell the scene so it doesn't feel like you are wading.

Third - Since I've mentioned dialogue there's that as well. Dabnett has always had a fine ear for banter. He though here he nails it. It feels real and in tune with the series. Simon Bowland's lettering sells it as well. Breaking up long exchanges to add emphasis and pacing.

Four - The characters. I mean its Bridget mainly. She feels genuine and utterly refreshing and lacking in cliche. She's not likable as a person particularly, but she's engaging as a character and that's a fine balance to pulled off. The folks around her add depth and weight to the world, but she is such a fantastic, original presense she does all they heavy lifting and what's surprising if some one was to provide a 200 word summary of who and what she is you'd never believe that possible. She grounds a series that's full of mystery and intrigue in a way that makes the mystery all the more mysterious.

Five - Its unexpected. Firstly on the plot level. It twists and turns and genuinely unravels (or starts to) a real puzzle that has you engaged and guessing. Left on edge, never quite sure, driving you along to discover, slightly breathless and off balance. Brinkman gets kills, not in some big dramatic way, but in a way that blindsides you. Hell it ends on 'Mercury just went dark' as in disappeared. Just as you get your feet the rug is pulled from you, time and again. Not to throw you completely to the floor, rather to keep you moving and off balance.

Six - Its unexpected. Secondly on an expectations level. You don't expect this to work. You don't expect it to be thrilling. A series constructed on moments, on individual instances and exchanges shouldn't work this well. Shouldn't feel this coherant. A tale this 'slow' by 2000ad standard should feel painful alongside other thrills, but of course it doesn't. Its pace, fair from glacial when you actually read it, is deceptive. It gives you the impression that its a slow burn, but it actually rattles along with breaks of violence and action just when needed - but no more. The rug pulls perfectly timed as I've said to keep throwing you forward, further and further into the mystery, but always feeling a little out of control.

There are almost certainly a seven, eight, nine and ten, but its getting late so that will have to do for now. Brink is a wonder and as Prog 2000ad approaches kicks the Galaxy's Greatest out of it golden plateau and reminds you that the driving ambition and glorious generation of new and innovative stories is still there, still just as strong and there's more to come to...

Funt Solo

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 8687
  • Research Monkey
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1126 on: 18 May, 2021, 09:50:42 PM »
I love Brink, as well. Oh, and I've yet to read Hate Box. The central mystique (dark gods, or is everyone just really, really high?) is managed very well, and the scene-setting wonderfully believable. I like how it doesn't explain too much as regards how we ended up on the brink in the first place - instead just dropping us into the world and expecting us to deal with it.

I have issues with over-labeling (having gone to all the trouble of providing mystique and allowing us to be grown-ups, I'm not sure of its purpose) and the censored swearing (because it's distracting and upsets the flow of the dialogue), but it's testament to the overall power of the story and the wonderful rendering of the world that it still stands out as a real highlight of the prog in the modern era.

I rather enjoyed Brinkman getting offed (sorry - didn't like him) and the focus switching to Bridget.
++ map ++ thrills ++ coma ++

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 18096
  • testing testing...
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1127 on: 21 May, 2021, 08:38:08 PM »


Tonight we're going to party likes its Prog 1999

Why oh why was that not the tag line... I mean its nothing to do with this post really, but "Move along citizens. Nothing to see here..." doesn't work does it for PROG 19-fuckin'99...

ahem ... anyway ... lets talk about Prog 1998 shall we.... actually no we'll come back to that first we will look at the stories that ended in Prog 1999, which was obviously clearing the decks. I mean what elsewhere you going to do before Prog 2000. Jaegir 'War Child' provides a brutal, vicious ending to this short Jaegir story - its really a masterful horror.

I've not talked about Scarlet Traces yet and its opening story 'Cold War' is exciting, inventive and twists and turns... but for some reason I just find it effective. It reads really well, the art is fantastic.. and yet effective... what's that about. Its almost as if it so well crafted it forgot to have a heart to grip me and so its... effective.

Outlier I have talked about and it ending is as good as what's gone before. It too is effective but in a way that I found gripping and exciting. Bold and different. Interestingly I'm not quite sure where the heart of this story is either, but still it did grip me... bloody hell the twists and turns of subjective opinion huh!

The biggest problem in 1999 is found in 1998. In the Prog before the last Prog of the second millenium (oh I'm sure someone will tell me 2001 is the second millenium's start cos no Prog 0 and all that but sod it) sits the BIG story to wrap up and mark such a big occasion. In Prog 1998 Judge Dredd - Ladykiller ends and with it very definitively the tale of PJ Maybe. He has a big death - in that he is shot and plunges a great distance AND explodes - so yah know he's dead. The trouble is this is an effective story... I mean its actually a good story, a very good story, but for a character of the calibre of PJ Maybe it isn't quite of the scale and punch that it seems like it deserves. Its a really good story but it can't live up the scale of the story we expect to mark the end of Dredd's greatest foe (discuss?). The trouble is what could. So in this instance effective will just have to do. But why wasn't it in Prog 1999? Who knows...

...and so that leads us to Prog 2000 another event so momentus that surely there's no way it can live up to the scale of expectation? Well join me next time and we can findout together.

Funt Solo

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 8687
  • Research Monkey
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1128 on: 21 May, 2021, 09:11:19 PM »
You recall, of course, that's there's also a guy in the psycho cubes (Warren Gillo, prog 1954) who *thinks* he's PJ Maybe.

I have no idea if Wagner did that as a throwaway, or as a way of bringing him back, in at least some form.

Wagner pulled off so many of these PJ-in-disguise and mind control drug stories that I'm not even sure that really IS PJ Maybe at the end of Ladykiller.
++ map ++ thrills ++ coma ++

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 18096
  • testing testing...
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1129 on: 21 May, 2021, 09:50:54 PM »
Wagner pulled off so many of these PJ-in-disguise and mind control drug stories that I'm not even sure that really IS PJ Maybe at the end of Ladykiller.

There was also the theory about the voice in his head relating to his time with the Dark Judges and he'd become some sort of new one of them.

I still liked to believe that John Wagner did what he did at the end of 'Ladykiller' just to underline how dead and done PJ was....

I have a track record of getting this sort of thing wrong!

TordelBack

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 27641
  • Droning on and on relentlessly since the 70s
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1130 on: 22 May, 2021, 06:55:40 AM »
Wagner pulled off so many of these PJ-in-disguise and mind control drug stories that I'm not even sure that really IS PJ Maybe at the end of Ladykiller.

There was also the theory about the voice in his head relating to his time with the Dark Judges and he'd become some sort of new one of them.

I still liked to believe that John Wagner did what he did at the end of 'Ladykiller' just to underline how dead and done PJ was....

I have a track record of getting this sort of thing wrong!

Moi aussi.

My take on this has been split two ways. First, the end emphasises that's there's no glamour in being a serial killer,  PJ has always been a lucky psychopath, not some admirable rebel genius (unlike Chimpsky!), and here he runs out of road and is simply disposed of as the creep he is. No blaze of glory,  no final scheme.   

Second, the unresolved oddness of it all gives John (and everyone else else) an escape hatch should one every prove desirable.

I also can't shake the idea that John of that period had a notion to do something with dark inner voices, but he couldn't quite find what it was - I'm obviously thinking of Life & Death of...  here, where Johnny's voice similarly goes essentially nowhere.




Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 18096
  • testing testing...
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1131 on: 22 May, 2021, 07:30:27 AM »
I also can't shake the idea that John of that period had a notion to do something with dark inner voices, but he couldn't quite find what it was - I'm obviously thinking of Life & Death of...  here, where Johnny's voice similarly goes essentially nowhere.

Yeah the echos are interesting and in the end still unexplored. Mind if we start to see Dredd get some black inner voice we're in trouble!

The Corinthian

  • Member
  • Sentient Tea Bot
  • **
  • Posts: 297
  • Gaze into the Fist of Pob!
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1132 on: 22 May, 2021, 08:19:10 AM »
Yeah the echos are interesting and in the end still unexplored. Mind if we start to see Dredd get some black inner voice we're in trouble!

I dunno, a strip about Dredd arresting his black inner voice for interfering with a Judge's duty would be pretty funny.

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 18096
  • testing testing...
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1133 on: 25 May, 2021, 09:32:01 PM »


2000 Already Down

Wow when you reach a milestone it can make you stop and think - to look back and reflect ... or to just go BLOODY HELL have I really just read 2000 Progs* that's a LOT. It might make you go all analytical and start to try to work out what this has all meant to you, how it has changed you and in turn you have changed it (or your perspection of it at least.). Or maybe you get very drunk have a MASSIVE party and imbibe... well whatevers around - you've made sure to bring plenty of chewie.... actually maybe that was a different 2000ad celebration (true story at the actual 2000ad party I went to, my best friends got off with someone who was dressed as me (it was a fancy dress party) if I hadn't been having such a good time myself that would have been very weird!).

ANYWAY

You might also get a little mushy and huggy and just go for full sentimental chuddlyness. Thats what Prog 2000 goes for. It makes no apologises for having fun and being happy to have hit 2000 progs and it bloody well gives us all a big hug and a kiss. Checks we're having and good time and pupils dilated, chewin' hard, moves onto the next person to tell them how lovely they are and to make sure they're having a good time - maybe a bit of a dance on the way AND wayhey who's this, who cares, hug um and check they're having and good time ... ohh that music.

I mean the stories aren't particularly great - but who cares we've having a bloody good time.

The best thing in it. Well thats looking to the future as Tharg says, even if that futures is now five years old and new thrill Counterfeit Girl is - fittingly - by far the standout. Pete Milligan teaming up with Rufus Dayglo, returns to one of his staple themes of ***identity and who we are, if we're not really ourselves.

Its all actually a bit of a mess but gosh its a lovely enjoyable one and one we'd happily do again - let's hope the come down next  issue ain't too harsh...

*Of course 'just' is a relative term I'm almost exactly (like almost to the day looking back - gosh who knew!) 5 years into this so ya know - this Prog wasn't even out when I started!**

**Oh God NuYNWA is getting all weirded out that current Self-absorbed YNWA wasn't even possible when original Self-absorbed YNWA was born... he's having an identity crisis like***

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 18096
  • testing testing...
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1134 on: 29 May, 2021, 08:02:41 AM »
I'm going to be talking about the post Prog 2000 line up soon as I've nearly finished it, and 2016, BUT just wanted to quickly stop by to mention a little something.

In Prog 2008 in 'Flesh' Pastor Sunday - the murderous priest trapped in the Cretacous, now blackened by meteor debris, is trapped between three being intent on killing him. Claw Carver - Sunday killed his wife and great love. Carver's daughter Vegas, it was her mother Sunday killed and giant dinosaur Gorehead. The episode ends on this glorious cliffhanger. Who will claim him?

The 'Next Prog' tag line = Pastor Bolognese!

Uncle Pat still got it!

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 18096
  • testing testing...
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1135 on: 30 May, 2021, 10:47:54 AM »


Making the most of the last days of your 30s

Obviously turning 40 changes everything - you get old, hair falls out, bellys get rotund and you start cycling/jogging/doing triathons to try to compenstae. So as you head that way, in those dying embers of youth - have a BLAST, smoke tabs, drink booze, take drugs. Live it large and rock that roll (before it heads to your tummy).

Well that seems to be 2000ads take on things - it would have been 39 year old YNWAs as well but ya know he'd just had his second kid and was kinda knackered!

But yeah the final year of 2000ad's 30s ends with a line-up just aching to prove its still got it and is as vital as it was 20 years or more ago.

Hunted reflects back on glories past with a Traitor General focused Rogue Trooper story that is fun, brimming with ideas and insight - I like the way The Traitor General is fleshed out from the cackling caracurite he was. Oh and Helm gets a bit of a staring roll. Oh and that slightly out of place, but all the same great fun pop at 90s Image. Oh and wonderful PJ art... I enjoyed this and it does come across as GRennie at his most playful.

Savage - The Marze Murderer - what to do when the way that's driven Bill for years is over. Why send him to Germany and reveal for the psycho we've always known him to be. Uncle Pat, so, so ably abetted by Patrick Goddard keeps his best strip of recent years interesting and exciting by spinning it into new directs. This is the 39 buying a bike to show they've still got energy and strength and can learn new skills.

Dredd - there's some nice Dredd two a Russian repraisal, a Ghosts in the walls and the proof that an architect is a must have in all Justice Department crack teams and a very disturbing solution to a food crisis. Dredd is the 39 years career. You might need to do it week in week out but that doesn't mean you can't find new ways to iinovate and be creative in that job.

Flesh - cos even at 39 when you are losing the plot - well its getting a bit stretched you still know dinosaurs and cowsboy are pretty cool - even if you kinda ignore the sense of it all at this stage.

The best thing in this line-up though is

Counterfeit Girl - grab at old friend (if its Pete Milligan) - maybe bring a new one (Rufus Dayglo doing his best work in 2000ad) and show the kids you can still party like a good un. That you are still at your best discovering and creating something new. And have a damned good time with those psychodelics - even if you are having a struggle with your identity. Milligan returns to old themes - for him - and shows that nobody does it better and 2000ad is at its best when punching out glorious new stories. PAARRRTTTYYYY....

And so there we have it. 2016 is over, a review to come and we charge into a big year. Man I'm so glad we both still got it.


broodblik

  • Member
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 3433
  • watkykjy?
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1136 on: 30 May, 2021, 12:04:49 PM »
I wonder if we will ever see a sequel either Counterfeit Girl or Hunted?
Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 18096
  • testing testing...
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1137 on: 30 May, 2021, 02:55:19 PM »
I wonder if we will ever see a sequel either Counterfeit Girl or Hunted?

I'm not sure Counterfeit Girl needs anymore. For me it was a lovely done in one and gone package.

I thought there was another Traitor General story, though memory is shocking for such things - so I'll have to wait and see.

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 18096
  • testing testing...
    • View Profile
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1138 on: 30 May, 2021, 04:28:26 PM »


2016

As ever let's look to what I said last year... the think is we're getting so close to modern day and as I've said before our YNWA are melding into a MetaYNWA (or is that Mecha... or even Mega???) that these predictions are getting.... well predictably good.

Quote
As for looking ahead, well next year, 2016, could actually be very interesting. We enter a period of extended celebration as we hit issue 2000 and head toward the 40th. There are a couple of key events I'm looking ahead to that could mark this as being a time that the Prog gets right back up to its very, very best. That we all stop, take stock and reflect on the fact of what makes The Galaxy's Greatest just that and the comic responds by upping its game just the little bit more to push it from 10 to 11. Let's find out shall we...

So that's a yes then. I got it spot on.

If we delve a little closer into what I said when discussing 2015 we get into the meat of the matter and why 2016 is a step up. I said...

Quote
I think what marks this period as not quite as good as the Golden Golden is that lack of utter invention. The NuGolden Age kicked off so many wonderful series and here while new stuff is still on a steady stream its not quite as rapid and invigourating. Now having said that The Order starts and that's bloody wonderful. I really like nuBad Company and only really Orlok mis-fires for the new stuff.

And in 2016 the new stories also raise the bar. The Order has a fantastic second series, We get Counterfeit Girl - the almost perfect self contained series. Deadworld starts in earnst. Scarlet Traces might not totally light up my world, but its very good and good enough for me to appreciate that its my problem not Edginton and D'Israeli's.

And of course we get the superlative Brink.

Dredd has some brilliant stories as well. A lot of the new faithful have good outing and all in all we're in fine, fine form. As good as any time between 2009 and 2012. While the time inbetween might not have been quite as good 2016 shows that 2013-2015 was really just a plateau between two magnificent peaks and a very elevated plateau at that.

We are also in an extended period of celebration with Prog 2000 leading nicely the 40th birthday and I think just has 2016 has lived up to the scale of the task building up to this period, so 2017 will be up to the task of taking these new heights forward and sustaining the new higher ground.

We lived in guilded times and frankly we still are... I better go and read some specials and FCBD issues to celebrate...




sheridan

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 6231
    • View Profile
    • Wilde Wood
Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #1139 on: 30 May, 2021, 09:09:49 PM »
I much preferred Counterfeit Girl to any Bad Company we've had this millennium.