Gotta say, were it not for the branding, I would've mistaken this for a normal prog. I think it's the first time we haven't had kid characters (other than Joe and Rico but they are both older than their years).
Cadet Dredd: A fun tale with Cadets' Dredd, Rico and Vella in Cursed Earth with muties and dinosaurs and mech suits. What's not to like?
Abelard Snazz: Fun colourful Futureshocky weirdness
Venus Bluegenes: Venus emancipates some enslaved Southers and destroys a big weapon. Loved the art in this and the action rollocked along. My only complaint was the robot guards lacked a bit of character.
Futureshock: Timey wimey paradoxy fun. Felt like a classic shock of auld.
Anderson Psi Division: Highlight of the prog for me. Loved the art and colours and the story had plenty action and punch. Much prefer these Anderson stories to the ones on the regular prog.
Another great Regened. I just with Pandora Perfect had made a return.
The cover by Alex Ronald:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElkgaikXYAAfipr?format=jpg&name=large)
The cover and logo:
(https://i0.wp.com/www.comicon.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/2000-ad-2206-8.jpg?resize=768%2C999&ssl=1)
Quote from: JimmyNailz on 03 November, 2020, 09:10:21 AMI just with Pandora Perfect had made a return.
Ooh, that seems like a misstep. Would be great to see successful strips like this, and Full Tilt Boogie for that matter, stick around to give the Regened progs a more consistent identity as an anthology. I'd enthusiastically buy a comic that offered FTB, Pandora Perfect and Finder & Keeper as anchors, mixed in with different stories.
Not that I'm not looking forward to reading the actual issue tomorrow!
I guess they're still figuring out what works and commissioning way in advance. I'd like to see more Pandora Perfect and Department K over and above reworked existing characters. (Abelard Snazz is a very odd choice, given that the entire original run was pure Alan Moore.)
I going to read the regen like I will read any special. I will judge the issue on the content and stories displayed. If you decide before-hand that you will not like it you are 100% correct.
Still mulling over it but I'd have to give it a cautious welcome. Having two future shocks (let's face it, that's Snazz all over ...) wasn't the worst that could have happened. Snazz captured the old ineptitude well.
Cadet Dredd continues to work nicely and walk its way towards Rico's fall from grace. Nods towards Origins as well. Not a bad effort.
Venus Bluegenes? Well, it worked better than the previous Rogue offering we've had. Would have worked just as well in the prog in general.
Anderson ... yep, I'd agree with this as one of the highlights too. Also with the comment comparing it favourably with some of the Anderson strips we've had of late.
More of an 'all ages' offering this time round. Building up to some consistency and we've definitely had some winners from the different offerings so far. Department K could do with a longer outing in the meg for my money.
Pandora Perfect may well turn out to be harder to strike gold twice but I'd like to see it try. Full Tilt has shown its potential even if it takes a bit of getting used to compared to other modern strips.
Still not a massive fan but this is slowly winning me over.
I rolled my eyes at the thought of yet ANOTHER regened prog, but d'you know what? I enjoyed every single story in this prog, and got a feeling of a "classic" prog from it (you know, those ones you read as a kid, between, say prog 180 - 370 or so), and that's not something I can say for my usual weekly prog.
Even Anderson was a straight read, mercifully bullshit free.
Cheers, Joko. I'm actually looking forward to the next one.
A very enjoyable regen prog with a very "classic" feel to it.
Cadet Dredd: This is the one I like the most from all the previous Cadet stories. A good solid story with refreshing art by Assirelli.
Abelard Snazz: An interesting choice to bring back from the year of 83 (the time when nuclear holocaust was looming over our heads). This felt and read like a Future Shock, readable but not the best
Venus Bluegenes: To put it bluntly this was a much better Rogue-verse story than the previous Rogue stories in the regen. I enjoyed this and the art was quite good.
Future Shock: As we all know Future Shocks can be a hit-and-miss scenario. This was one for me was a hit and would fit into the regular prog quite easily. A good build-up with a nice twist at the end.
Anderson: The highlight of the regen prog. A good Anderson story with some good visuals by Davidson. [spoiler]The story ends in a way that implies to us that we will see more regen progs.[/spoiler]
As others have said, bar baby Dredd this felt like a normal Prog for the most part. Dredd was the best one of these so far for me. Coherent art and storytelling, nicely executed, and using its extra space well. Snazz was, I'll admit, a nice surprise. The script did feel very in keeping with the Moore stories.
Venus Bluegenes was a bit knowingly right-on, but worked well enough, and I was happy to see the dismissal of the "doll" tag by the protagonist. The references to very old events will likely have baffled new readers, mind.
The FS was solid. Anderson... yep, this works. Better than Anderson elsewhere in 2000 AD/Meg of late too. The gaps between episodes might prove trying for younglings Rebellion's trying to snare, mind.
In all, a good Prog for me regardless of the Regened branding. That said, last time there were two outstanding strips and I missed both of them this time.
Best thing this time out undoubtedly Ronald's superb cover.
Cadet Dredd was one of the stronger outings for this strip, with an interesting first-person story from Carroll and assured dino art from Assirello. I was wrongfooted by Vella being a mutant, however - that browridge was a bit too subtle when we had no baseline character faces to compare it with. I also couldn't help missing the more hard-hitting dinosaur/mecha carnage of strips past. It's definitely a good call to have
the current main scribe of Dredd prehistory writing the Cadet strips.
I didn't care much for the Snazz story, it felt like the pastiche it was, and even the comedy science didn't make any internal sense (a normal finger squashing a sub-molecular civilisation - surely a tiny finger on a stick would be better? Edwin asking what "we" are breathing?). I'd expect better from Cornell. The art started out well with an appropriately Bradbury feel but became uneven, and colours were unnecessarily dark.
Venus was a decent story, with a bit of riff on Riddick. I'd personally have preferred to see the title page held back until after the reveal for a bit of twist-value. I don't remember GIs or Dolls having superior intellects, seems like a bad design decision by the Genies. Enjoyed the nod to both the unloved Karvanu era, and War Machine. Aneke's art is really nice and clean, but for some reason the Norts appeared to be the Time Bandits in cunning disguises. Probably the better of the Regened Rogueverses.
The Future Shock was fine, lots of strong designs from Newell, and it did its predictable thing very neatly in 5 pages.
Anderson was the best of the strips for me, Scott and Davidson deliver an eventful and progworthy story that feels like its set in MC-1. Even if the Lawlords Jnr don't fill me with excitement, I like that an ongoing story is being developed.
As expected, I sorely missed any of Regened's "own" strips, even with largely better outings for the usual suspects thus time, it would be a shame if the experiment reverted to using mainly duller versions of 2000AD characters. Even accepting that FTB has jumped ship, autochthonous strips like Finder & Keeper, Department K and Pandora Perfect need to be in regular rotation alongside more new contenders if this is going to work (for me)
Still, reckon I got more than my €2.28's worth.
Finally my sub copy arrive and once again this is what we come for in the Regened Prog. A second triumphant issue, which after the first two is a real relief. All packed behind a lovely cover.
While I get the desire to have more Pandora Perfect and Department K - I'd have welcomed both - I assume there wasn't time to commission more for this one and after all these seem to be a lot about experimentation and seeing what works. After the last two and some of the content in other specials I think Joko and co are getting a pretty good idea and hopefully, hopefully they are building towards something.
I'm also not sure why folks feel this reads like a regular Prog - there were all sorts of playful moments in all the stories. Though maybe they where after a feeling of interchangability. To stop folks who get ratty about these things being so annoyed? Who knows? But while I accept that any one of these stories would have worked in a regular Prog - some moments aside - I think all together it does read wonderfully playful and all ages.
Anyway enough blather and onto the content.
Cadet Dredd - Judges, mutants, Dinosaurs and action. I mean this just ticks the boxes doen't it and builds nicely on difference between Rico and Dredd. Nicolo Assirella knocks it out the park on art as well.
Abelard Snazz - I didn't know I needed or wanted more Snazz but this really worked, caught the tone of the old stories perfectly, which work perfectly in an all ages comics and this one nailed it. Genuinely good fun. Art took a little getting used to but served the story fine by the end.
Venus Bluegenes - Well it wasn't subtle in its gammon baiting was it. But this one did a really good job of mixing action with a message targeted precisely at a younger audience - that us older folks could do well the remind ourselves of - and a certain playfulness that made the violence okay - especially the Nort surrender, which I felt was perfectly paced.
Love the Future Shock, great fun, except the end could have been better. The breaking gun blowing up time was fine(ish) if a little clumsy, but would it not have been better if the T-gun was designed to remove the Prof from the time stream, thus remove his application of Charles Smart's discovery and hence paradox time collapse back on itself... or something? Still enjoyed this one. And more lovely art.
Speaking of lovely art Paul Davidson does possibly the best work I've seen from him with a great Anderson story. Again the aliens aren't all bad ending is a well served all ages theme which sets the tone and removes the cynical edge from the regular Prog and it leaves the door open for a continuation...
...which I hope we get in some for of regular Regened product. Tharg's played with this enough now and there's surely enough potential to think about what to do with this. I hope he has plans and the trades coming next year are a success and we see this project go places.
My only real beef with this week's comic isn't so much that PP, F&K and DeptK aren't present, it's more that what is there are all just spins on established properties.
As Colin observes, the present crop are definitely more successful at filing down the cynical, violent, nihilist edges, while still being entertaining stories, than when we started out. However, being purely selfish, I still find that approach a bit boring, especially the L'il Joe/L'il Johnny type (even while conceding that this week's Cadet Dredd strip is not at all bad). It doesn't help that Anderson is the best strip this time, and the version that has the most potential as a regular fixture, even as my enthusiasm for new Anderson stories is at an all-time low.
I'm happy to support Regened as an important project regardless, but I get my own personal thrills out of the new strips - both here and in Misty etc. There's now enough of these to almost fill an issue, so I'd prefer to see at least half of each comic taken up with the successes. I hope that we haven't fallen into the trap (again) of compulsory Dredd and compulsory '80s nostalgia strip taking up the slots.
Given that there are good-sized gaps between issues, I'd have hoped commissioning single episodes of what has been shown to work would create identity and momentum, and wouldn't have been a big logistical problem - but I suppose given the state of the outside world I should really just continue to be grateful that Tharg hasn't missed a beat this whole long, awful year.
ADDENDUM: Re-reading it this afternoon, I find I was unduly hard on the Snazz story earlier: it's actually a decent bit of fun, and it was a bit rich calling a plausible continuation of what was always a thematically-repetitive strip a pastiche. I didn't manage any sleep last night, and my humour-circuits may have been depleted for several not unrelated reasons.
The lack of Regened-specific strips like F&K, Pandora Perfect and Dept K was a big plus for me because to be honest, I'm not keen on any of 'em. In their place we got a crop of stories where, mercifully, the level of writing was above that tailored for younger-age juves. The Dredd story would have made a decent two-parter in the regular prog and Anderson was, by virtue of its directness and clarity, a great improvement on her recent 'mainstream' escapade. OK so Venus Bluegenes was so painfully on-the-nose it gave me a nosebleed but it was a solid story and I did love the sly premise of it being based around a huge cannon pointing upright into a... yes, well. The two Future Shocks were OK and ensured the strike rate remained above average.
Sadly I don't think I'll ever be fully on board with the Regened progs and I still hope Tharg manages to hive off his cousin's project into its own publication but this time round it was far more bearable than usual.
In the nerve centre the last statement was "I'll be back in 2021". In what form still needs to be revealed. I still believe that most of us that post here would rather have a regen publication than having the regular prog interrupted.
No sign of my copy of this yet :(
Anyone know the best email address (or other way of getting in touch) to use for missing subs copies these days?
Ta
A nice different mix on Regened for me as the experiment continues to bear fruit in my view. Basically this was all pretty strong, especially the future shock. It's the ongoing balance and frequency that's going to be interesting now. I'm definitely eyeing up the collected volumes for the kids next year, which has got to be a good sign!
Quote from: moldovangerbil on 06 November, 2020, 01:16:37 PM
No sign of my copy of this yet :(
Anyone know the best email address (or other way of getting in touch) to use for missing subs copies these days?
Ta
Yeah my copy hasn't shown up either. Best bet is to check out the help section on the 2000AD shop site, scroll to the bottom and fill out the form on the contact us page.
Quote from: broodblik on 06 November, 2020, 11:32:28 AM
In the nerve centre the last statement was "I'll be back in 2021". In what form still needs to be revealed. I still believe that most of us that post here would rather have a regen publication than having the regular prog interrupted.
Right. Or at least move away from the rigid every-13-weeks model. Surely it makes more sense to do them the week before a jumping-on Prog? You don't interrupt ongoing stories, and any new readers they attract have an easier ride if they go on to buy the next one.
The counter-argument is the risk that it becomes a jumping-off point instead - all the stories you're following have (theoretically) wrapped up, there's a week of stuff you don't want at all, maybe take a break...
Personally I'd be happy with the same arrangement as this year, I think it's been a refreshing and worthwhile project, and sometimes genuinely great. I'd happily list Pandora Perfect, Finder & Keeper, Department K and (tangentially) Full Tilt Boogie as some of my favourite thrills of the year. If it gives the House of Tharg access to the pockets of a less near-death readership, that's a double win.
But obviously others don't feel the same, so it's a financial call for Rebellion how to proceed.
I will rather have 46 regular progs a year than none. So, if this is the way forward then this is how it is. I also enjoyed the new thrills Department K and Pandora Perfect.
Its a well worn debate but I'll weather bumps (though I actually love these as a concept) in knowing it allows Rebellion to experiment and push it boundaries of what they offer. I'd like to think there was a plan and this had an end game in mind - but maybe not, who knows.
I will say again they do need to blend that into the ongoing stories though. Finding natural breaks or points when it doesn't overtly affect flow of ongoing stories. So before jumping Progs is ideal when possible, from my perspective. However I imagine that won't always be possible and maybe they just wanted to space them out evenly who knows. When it does bump a regular ongoing story it does invite criticism.
Maybe dropping them in actually minimises risk of drop off as TordelBack, as ever, wisely says.
Last we knew, these issues were selling more than standard ones. That has to be balanced against the 'toys from pram' brigade, angry at Rebellion's audacity in wanting to survive for the long term by bringing in new and younger readers.
I'm not thrilled about the schedule, but it doesn't annoy me to a great extent. And I'd happily see a six-part run of Dept. K and Pandora Perfect in the Prog—although that then kind of defeats the object of Regened if stories are just going to transfer to the regular issues. (On that basis, Matt, please commission more of those strips!)
Selling well? Great news. I guess if it does increase the life of the prog then that is to be welcomed. At the end of the day I would have bought it either way. Maybe that does mean a small loss since as a subscriber that's an extra copy that hasn't sold over and above the regular prog. Then again, does that matter that much?
At the end of the day the prog is always changing and evolving. What we're seeing in the Regened is an exploration of how different generations view the prog. A lot of us grew up with it and to an extent it feels like it has grown up with us. There is a different sensibility though to other generations. I think we sometimes tend to forget that it has an "all ages" tag to it. That is a hell of challenge squaring that circle.
Rebellion is certainly to be applauded for the experiment and to date it does seem to be going well. How long it will be though before it escapes the lab?
Quote from: moldovangerbil on 06 November, 2020, 01:16:37 PM
No sign of my copy of this yet :(
Anyone know the best email address (or other way of getting in touch) to use for missing subs copies these days?
Ta
I'm also prog 2206 less. There appear to have been quite a few people that haven't been sent theirs so they can't all have been lost in the post (as appears to be the standard answer!) I've been in touch with Rebellion about this missing prog amongst other items not despatched and one should now be on its way. So if anybody else is still waiting for theirs to arrive I'd suggest you contact them and get them to resolve.
Quote from: Andy B on 07 November, 2020, 05:41:57 AM
Quote from: broodblik on 06 November, 2020, 11:32:28 AM
Right. Or at least move away from the rigid every-13-weeks model. Surely it makes more sense to do them the week before a jumping-on Prog? You don't interrupt ongoing stories, and any new readers they attract have an easier ride if they go on to buy the next one.
That's been a recurring and rather obvious point that so far has fallen on deaf ears. The interruptions don't bother some*, so ok, but as a model it does seem rather nonsensical when there are clear and sensible opportunities for the regened progs to release a week before the jumping on progs.
*I'm not one, it's not really annoying, rather just frustraiting when I know it can be managed a different way really...
I must admit that I blow hot and cold on the Regened progs- on the one hand I like the idea and the impetus to create something that maximises the brand for the younger reader is something I can firmly support. However, the continued reliance on manga-esque art and shallow storytelling makes me weep.
This one was particularly guilty of this, and I could really have done without Paul Cornell's Abelard Snazz. An ersatz Halo Jones Book 4 just got one step nearer, to my mind.
I think Pat's Spacewarp did it a lot better- and I'd feel happier with my offspring reading that than a Regened. As it happens, my eldest offspring is a regular reader anyway- and at 17, has been for five or six years. He's not overly impressed with the Regened issues either.
All that said, its Rebellion's call. If it increases sales, then fair play. I dont really care whether the Regened appear as they have been, or more sporadically- perhaps as suggested in the issue before a jump-on prog. Makes no odds to me, as I'm going to buy it anyway. I just wish that when one did appear, it was more like the 2000AD I know and grew up with, rather than a slightly cringeworthy "what we think the kids want" by committee.
SBT
Quote from: blixab on 07 November, 2020, 12:22:13 PM
Quote from: moldovangerbil on 06 November, 2020, 01:16:37 PM
No sign of my copy of this yet :(
Anyone know the best email address (or other way of getting in touch) to use for missing subs copies these days?
Ta
I'm also prog 2206 less. There appear to have been quite a few people that haven't been sent theirs so they can't all have been lost in the post (as appears to be the standard answer!) I've been in touch with Rebellion about this missing prog amongst other items not despatched and one should now be on its way. So if anybody else is still waiting for theirs to arrive I'd suggest you contact them and get them to resolve.
Who did you get in touch with? I've emailed and sent a facebook message but not even had an acknowledgement. Thanks.
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 07 November, 2020, 01:25:06 PMI just wish that when one did appear, it was more like the 2000AD I know and grew up with, rather than a slightly cringeworthy "what we think the kids want" by committee.
Do bear in mind that's like a parent in 2000 AD's early days saying "I wish this comic was like what I grew up with in the 1940s. Things change. Tastes change. Sure, there's less grit in modern comics for kids, but, judging by The Phoenix, the storytelling is often a lot richer, varied and more diverse.
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 07 November, 2020, 01:25:06 PM
An ersatz Halo Jones Book 4 just got one step nearer, to my mind.
Putting down a marker here and now: I would not buy a comic that contains such a thing. Indigo Prime nearly did for me, and that was by one of my favourite current writers. Some lines should never be crossed.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 07 November, 2020, 02:43:17 PM
Do bear in mind that's like a parent in 2000 AD's early days saying "I wish this comic was like what I grew up with in the 1940s. Things change. Tastes change.
Ironically enough there is a historian of comics that makes that charge against the tooth in his book (wish I could remember his name and I'm sure it'll come to me or someone here will fill in the blanks). He is incredibly disparaging of Mills' creation and what he sees as an abomination in the Dare reboot.
I'm currently working my way through the original Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers newspaper strip collections from Titan and Hermes. If anything these show how far things have come in the 3/4 of a century or so of regular / high profile science fiction comic strips. We comment on the racial insensitivity of early tooth at times but Buck Rogers takes it to a different level. Some of the female figures in Gordon would have incensed Mary Whitehouse (and quite possibly did).
It's worth remembering the impetus behind Eagle, to create something to combat the tide of those 'horrible American things' polluting our children (just wait 'til you see what Kevin O'Neill can do with a pen!). Dare is often the only strip remembered despite the fact that it was often just the front page.
The only thing I do find baffling is why Rebellion isn't doing more with Tammy/Jinty, Cor/Buster and much of the stable of material they've now got access to. How many of us have kids that lapped up the meagre output so far and clamour for more? Surely that's your 'entry drug'? Not to mention the 'county lines' of aged comic officiando's ready and willing to push the product and then some ("you like that? Get a load of ...").
Money is the main reason. Launching a new comic is colossally expensive. Rebellion is clearly testing the water to see what works, in an extremely challenging environment. And which comic do you go for? Cor/Buster? Tammy/Jinty? A mix of them all? Then you're up against The Phoenix and The Beano. And as much as I liked Cor/Buster, it felt quite rough and ready against those publications. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it was much more uneven.
FWIW, mini-IP (6; Phoenix and Beano fanatic) now 'owns' both my Cor/Buster specials. She adores Gums and Sweeny Toddler and likes some of the other bits. I'm sure she'd lap up a monthly along those lines. (As I've said elsewhere, I really wish the Sweeny Toddler HC didn't have all the slipper smacking stuff. Without that, I'd have bought it for my kid for Christmas. But we've already had a couple of discussions about how things 'used to be', and she's really not thrilled about the notion of adults beating children, as you can imagine. So I don't want to turn her off of a strip she currently loves.)
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 07 November, 2020, 01:25:06 PM
However, the continued reliance on manga-esque art and shallow storytelling makes me weep.
One thing to bear in mind is despite kids and YA book sales being overall down in bookshops, graphic novels and manga sales in that demographic have dramatically risen over the past couple of years. That artstyle is what the target audience wants. Honestly I believe that if Rebellion put out OGNs of stuff like Finder and Keeper and Pandora Perfect they could do massive numbers.
Quote from: blixab on 07 November, 2020, 12:22:13 PM
Quote from: moldovangerbil on 06 November, 2020, 01:16:37 PM
No sign of my copy of this yet :(
Anyone know the best email address (or other way of getting in touch) to use for missing subs copies these days?
Ta
I'm also prog 2206 less. There appear to have been quite a few people that haven't been sent theirs so they can't all have been lost in the post (as appears to be the standard answer!) I've been in touch with Rebellion about this missing prog amongst other items not despatched and one should now be on its way. So if anybody else is still waiting for theirs to arrive I'd suggest you contact them and get them to resolve.
I've not had this week's or the previous two. Ended up buying them in Tesco.
I'll fire off an email I think. There's no way all three were lost in the post.
I am all in favour of the re-gened progs.
They are a nice break from the 'norm', even though the current norm is astonishingly good.
I enjoy them in their own right, they work for me just like any 2000AD strip does, and there have been some real gems in the re-geneds this year.
If it is working for Revellion then keep it up, I say. We have to capture new, younger readers somehow.
1) I loathe these stupid breaks - why not either start up a new comic in parallel or sell them as holiday specials instead?
2) is that a typo on the Roy of the Rovers ad?
Quote from: Fenscape on 07 November, 2020, 10:23:38 PM1) I loathe these stupid breaks - why not either start up a new comic in parallel
Because that would cost many hundreds of thousands of pounds during a time when publishing is having a nightmare.
Quoteor sell them as holiday specials instead?
And then people would gripe we're losing the other specials.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 07 November, 2020, 11:19:50 PM
Quote from: Fenscape on 07 November, 2020, 10:23:38 PM1) I loathe these stupid breaks - why not either start up a new comic in parallel
Because that would cost many hundreds of thousands of pounds during a time when publishing is having a nightmare.
Low budget option — and I mean the absolute rock-bottom minimum — is half a million quid. Doing it properly? £1M - £1.5M
minimum.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 07 November, 2020, 11:49:33 PM
Low budget option — and I mean the absolute rock-bottom minimum — is half a million quid. Doing it
properly? £1M - £1.5M minimum.
This is a lot of money to start a new publication. I am sure that Rebellion would not like to do it half-baked. The problem is that if your new publication "fails" it can potentially drag-down your whole business.
I find these Cadet Dredds so flat and dry. Situation arises, hubris from Rico, Joe and others save the day, the end. Not much exploration of their relationship, no real arc to their final bust-up. For me always the worst thing in the Regened progs and unfortunately the first thing to read.
Really hope 2021 has a different approach to these Regened progs rather than replacing 4 of the 50 annual progs. To be honest I can live with it as it is, and if it's bring in new readers then that's great as I don't know where 2000 AD will be in 10 or 20 years' time if it's currently being read predominantly by middle aged men like me.
I just think that All Ages shouldn't mean Dumbed Down and Cadet Dredd is running close to that, stripped of most of the nuance, humour and social commentary of regular Dredd.
Quote from: broodblik on 08 November, 2020, 05:43:14 AMThis is a lot of money to start a new publication. I am sure that Rebellion would not like to do it half-baked. The problem is that if your new publication "fails" it can potentially drag-down your whole business.
Exactly. This is also why even new launches tend to be assigned to existing slots. So you'll see a 'new' Lego magazine that will coincidentally launch the month another one of its stablemates was cancelled.
I suspect sales of the Regened books might provide an indication of what happens next. We see a BIG rise in children's GNs and manga. Indies are doing quite well. Traditional superhero fare... not so much. So there are opportunities in the books market. Whether Regened can stake a claim to a chunk of that, who knows?
So keep the Regened progs, all four of them throughout the year, but don't land them in the middle of a run!
If they are placed just before the jumping on prog, there is no interruption and those who buy the Regened progs might just buy the jumping on prog and then boom, your into a fresh set of stories...
...but then that's logical
Quote from: Jacqusie on 08 November, 2020, 05:28:48 PM
If they are placed just before the jumping on prog, there is no interruption and those who buy the Regened progs might just buy the jumping on prog and then boom, [you're] into a fresh set of stories...
... erm, which are not aimed at the same age group.
The logic only works if we have at least one Regened-level strip running permanently in regular progs. Best option would be carrying one strip forward in a separate story starting in the jumping-on prog. That way they can keep the youngsters reading
and wean them onto the harder stuff over time.
And if that story is something like the quality of
Pandora Perfect then I can't see the older readers complaining. (Heck, I didn't understand or enjoy
Full Tilt Boogie but it's clear that lots of other old fogies did. :D)
I'm not a fan of these regened progs, but they're not written for me so my thoughts are not especially relevant and I can give up four progs a year if it's going to bring new readers in and keep things going for longer. It's mildy annoying when they break up a story but I'm an adult and can wait 2 weeks for continuation.
For what it's worth my niece has skimmed over them and she liked the stories where a new character was used (such as Pandora Perfect, Finder / Keeper) and didn't like the 'young versions of an existing character' much (Dredd, Rogue etc) and preferred it if the strips were light hearted.
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 09 November, 2020, 02:49:02 PM
I'm not a fan of these regened progs, but they're not written for me
Actually, they are written for 'everyone'. There should be no talking down here, no treating the reader as anything other than articulate. All ages should be exactly that -- ALL ages.
Personally I've quite enjoyed these little breaks in my regularly scheduled mayhem, and would have no issue with TMO moving to this model from now on.
Apart from some nudity and the occasional 'real-world' swear there is little in the regular prog that needs to be censored.
If a team want to do something deliberately extreme - put it in the Meg - it worked for Realm of the Damned.
That's the thing: well-written content should be enjoyable for everyone. Usagi Yojimbo remains one of my favourite comics of all-time, and yet it's talking animals and PG violence. Lumberjanes also.
Interesting points but I'm not sure I agree. Reading a lot of comics I enjoyed as a kid - Battle, Eagle and so on - even some early 2000ad stuff - they're definitely pitched at a younger reader. That's not to say they're rubbish, but there's nuances that aren't there. Not every strip, but as a whole. Look at original Hookjaw vs current Hookjaw.
Going back to the regened progs, I find most of the stories far too straightforward which in turn makes them boring. A big part of this is probably because they're all little one shots, but I find they lack any kind of cleverness, emotional punch or visceral excitement. A lot of people said the last Regend issue felt like a proper prog, but if any of those strips appeared in the regular prog I'd be disappointed.
I agree that well-written content should appeal to everyone, but I stuff with that level of appeal has to be exceptionally well written. Asterix is the first that comes to mind. Definitely Usagi Yojimobo.
The stuff that hooked me on 2000 AD as a ten year old were things like the bag of human hands in the Graveyard Shift, and Alpha's deeply misguided but well meaning attempts to resurrect a young boy he'd accidentally killed. Citizen Snork - "I've got the biggest nose in Megacity 1!" - I knew at some level this was about ordinary people trying to create meaning in a world that had stripped them of that. Deeply wanting Nemesis to be hero we wanted him to be, but knowing that the point was that he wasn't, just your enemy's enemy.
These stories stretched me and made me think of the world in a different way. I can't see why the Regened progs can't strive to do the same. To be fair, a lot of it has been very decent - but some of it - particularly the Cadet Dredds have just elicited no more than a Gallic shrug.
They primarily have a problem of frequency. It's one thing to present arcs over a period of many weeks. It's another to do the same quarterly.
It occurs to me that "back in the day" parents used to buy comics for their offspring primarily as timewasters- something to entertain on a rainy day, etc. Little did they know that some comics, 2000AD among them, were doing far more than simply entertaining us, and were subtly influencing our entire outlooks. And when those parents did eventually take a look at what we were reading, that's when the prog got its rep as the comic that parents most disapproved of.
The biggest problem with Regened for me, is that they seem to be just entertaining. There very little in the way of subtext- political, social, or otherwise. They seem to be entirely "trimewasters".
It needs meat. It needs an attitude. It needs a Pat Mills figure, kicking against the pricks. Tharg, in his current incarnation, is many things- all of them tremendous- but he is definitely not that.
SBT
Not aimed at anyone in particular, but as a general point: I think it bears repeating that 2021's 'yoof' audience is a very different beast to 1977's. Simply recreating the vibe of 2000AD's early years may press the nostalgia buttons of the existing readers, but is of little benefit if the intention is to engage younger readers today.
As Gordon has noted in a previous thread, there is a huge body of market research that says today's younger readers overwhelmingly prefer protagonists with ages closer to their own over adult protagonists. (Related: all the Who fans bemoaning the lack of multi-part storylines in the modern incarnation of the show, when, again, 'the kids'* hate that.)
I think we may, as a group, underestimate the attention that Rebellion's droids have paid to the likes and dislikes of the target demographic.
*That's "kids" generic as a demographic, not all kids. Please don't bother telling me that your kids feel differently.
I think also the specific art styles in the regen progs are more inline with what the generation today prefer. I also think that today's generation want something different from the 70/80s generations.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 10 November, 2020, 10:03:09 AM
*That's "kids" generic as a demographic, not all kids. Please don't bother telling me that your kids feel differently.
If I had any,
my kids would feel differently.
I quite enjoyed this Regened comic - Albelard Snazz in particular was a great, old-skool-future-shock bit of nonsense (if very similar to a Rick and Morty episode I saw a while ago).
I wouldn't really like the weekly prog replaced entirely by the all-ages thing, but I'm more than happy to see the occasional one come along. That's just me though. It's interesting to hear that modern-day kids prefer younger characters - sounds like the contemporary 2000ad would have to be altered beyond recognition to successfully sell to that market.
When 'we' were kids, was Dredd a cadet? No.
Was Rogue fresh out of the tube? No.
Was Nemesis the Warlock implied to be the actual devil? Yes.
A n all-ages prog does not need to be a sanitised prog. It needs to have good stories, told well.
If TMO is reading this -- and why would he, when he has droids for this sort of thing -- can we please have a Kingdom story in the re'GENE'd progs next year, and maybe a serial that covers all the parts?
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 10 November, 2020, 10:03:09 AM
Not aimed at anyone in particular, but as a general point: I think it bears repeating that 2021's 'yoof' audience is a very different beast to 1977's. Simply recreating the vibe of 2000AD's early years may press the nostalgia buttons of the existing readers, but is of little benefit if the intention is to engage younger readers today.
I take your general point, Jim, but I think today's kids and young adults are more politically minded than maybe our generation was, and as such a bit of political commentary may resonate. I went to University in the early 90s, a time when having political convictions was deeply unfashionable and the union bar was being renamed from the Nelson Mandela Bar to the Frankie Howerd bar. But today feels more like the 80s than the 90s with Trump/Johnson acting as a cruder echo of Reagan/Thatcher with not much intersection between their priorities and the worries of younger people like climate change, treatment of minorities etc. Of course not all younger people share these values, but then I'm sure that was also true back in the 80s too.
There is certainly scope for 2000 AD to tap into these feelings. Not by being preachy but by doing what 2000 AD is best at - being subversive and making you question the motivations of authority figures. And using the future as a way to hold a prism to the current problems of the day. Of course, that's still present to some degree in the regular prog, and there's no reason at all that it can't be part of Regened too. Well, there is one issue which Indigo Prime has alluded to: they're irregular one-offs at the moment, and it's far easier to tackle this sort of thing in a wider story arc.
Quote from: MumboJimbo on 10 November, 2020, 01:47:07 PMthe union bar was being renamed from the Nelson Mandela Bar to the Frankie Howerd bar.
That's the most Student Grant sentence I've heard in a while... ;)
I can't really remember many political conversations going on either when I was studying in the early to mid 90s. Thatcher and Reagan were gone; Bush hadn't arrived yet, and the Lad generation was on the rise.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 11 November, 2020, 09:58:00 AM
Quote from: MumboJimbo on 10 November, 2020, 01:47:07 PMthe union bar was being renamed from the Nelson Mandela Bar to the Frankie Howerd bar.
That's the most Student Grant sentence I've heard in a while... ;)
I can't really remember many political conversations going on either when I was studying in the early to mid 90s. Thatcher and Reagan were gone; Bush Jnr hadn't arrived yet, and the Lad generation was on the rise.
Quote from: MumboJimbo on 09 November, 2020, 11:06:25 PM
These stories stretched me and made me think of the world in a different way. I can't see why the Regened progs can't strive to do the same.
Like a story in which everybody assumes the weird alien beasty is evil when it's actually just trying to warn people of an approaching danger?
I enjoyed this and so did my 10 year old.
Although Last of the First Ones wasn't as good as I remembered.
I love the regened progs. It's a great idea but they are also great in their own right.
I hope we get them again next year.
I'm far too old to have any idea whether they appeal to today's children or not....I would however agree with others who have stated that it's not valid to compare the regened progs to how 2000AD was when WE were children, it is how well they appeal to CURRENT children, whose tastes could and should be wildly different to ours.
Four Regened Progs already confirmed for 2021: https://2000ad.com/news/all-ages-2000-ad-regened-to-return-in-2021/
Great cover. Really enjoyed this Prog - possibly my favourite so far.