Spoilers, everyone!
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I honestly didn't think I'd give a shit, but the death of Sue Dibny was well-handled stuff.
Is this the most emotive moment in recent US comics?
It was better-written and sadder than the death of Supergirl.
Anyone else reading Identity Crisis?
- Trout
Okay: Conexus is the name of a superhero me and my artist brother came up with. It's about this scientist guy who gets impregnated by a symbiote, which gradualy changes him - statring out he becomes all muscular and more intelligent and ends up with pointy eyes (better hearing) large eyes (night vision) and a bald head and blue skin (err, coz it looked cool) He wears a slightly modified blue street camo army uniform, and initialy to protect his identity he wears black contacts and a bandana over his mouth. We never really worked out why he turned vigilanty and apart from the gradual change I think it's just a cheap rip off of Spider man as I look at it now. My brother liked it , but he's a Marvel fan so there's no accounting for taste. Oh yeah he's called Conexus coz that's latin for joined (he and the symbiote are joined, geddit?)
Supergirl's dead???
I thought Identity Crisis #1 was a quality read, and I agree that the murder of Sue Dibny was well-handled. I thought it was a bit cynical; after all, what harm did she ever do anyone? But I was surprised at how quickly I got used to it.
I look forward to finding out what the conspiratorial heroes did that was so bad (and what it all has to do with Dr. Light).
Issue 1 was the most entertaining superhero comic I've read in years. Issue 2's out in five days and I can't wait!
--Grant
Short term shock tactic though. Sue and Ralph were practically unique in comics terms. And now they're gone. Plus the ripple effect has meant that 'I can't believe it's not the Justice League' has been knocked out by 6 months and may be out of continuity. So we lose the return of Ice as well. Buggeration.
Anyway, Doc Lights first appearance seems to be the one referred to. But I reckon it's likely to be Prometheus behind it all. Seems about right to me.
I flicked through this, and ended up buying it but never reading it. I'll hoke it out, but it better not just be 'second string super-hero group unite after a death to expose conspiracy' nonsense again, because Watchmen was good, but having some yank try to top it every two years in one form or another is getting a bit played out.
Sue Dibny?
Steve
It was an excellent opener, I always liked the Dibneys in JLE they had that thin man vibe you don;t get anywhere else, where marriage looked fun. Now -sniff- it's all over.
Still looking forward to the next one,
Jim -who didn;t cry for Jean Grey but had a lip wobble for poor Sue and Ralph
Not read american comics regularly for years, and am genuinely saddened by this, I always liked Sue and Ralph, and they (in the stories I remember) seemed to be a really solid unit.
Hope the death is more than just a cheap shot to get some fan-boy reaction.
Bolt-01
R.I.P Sue :(
The funeral was well handed though and nice seeing some of the major characters from Star-man in the background
Following the last appearance of Prometheus in Morrison's JLA run, I think the chances of him masterminding anything more complicated than going number two are unlikely.
I was disappointed that it was Sue, smacks a little of women-in-refridgerators time to me*.
J-Bo-1
Link: *Women in Refridgerators
and if the rumours are true firehawk is going to be joining sue...
Prometheus has turned up again recently in Batman: Gotham Nights. Even in that, he seemed a bit crap, and comes over more as a hired hand than as a potential criminal mastermind. Presumably he hadn't downloaded any data on how to deal with Green Arrow.
Poor Sue. By rights I should be disgusted, but like I said, I got over it very quickly.
I haven't I liked the dibneys
What about Identity Crisis #2, then? Was that all justified, or was it cynical and exploitative to the max?
I'm not best pleased with #2.
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Sue Dibny gets put through a rape ordeal in flashback.
There was no real need for that, IMO. All it would have taken would have been an obvious threat to her.
I'd say the treatment of such an issue is left in the shade by the same idea in Starman, where....
Hmmm.
Another spoiler space needed.
... Starman senior (Ted Knight), Green Lantern and the Golden Age Flash all find their loved ones threatened by the Rag Doll.
When the villain tries to escape, they act to stop him and someone - it's unclear who, in the parts I've read - kills him.
The superhero's fear for his loved ones' safety is clearly demonstrated and, despite the we-don't-know-who-killed-him cop-out, it's a tale well-told.
I'll keep on with Identity Crisis, if only for the whodunnit aspect, but introducing a rape on the Justice League Satellite was a step too far, I say.
- Trout
Complete misfit with her character to date, too.
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I actually thought Identity Crisis #2 was rather good, but I think both Sue Dibny and the readers deserved better than that. I think where this series wins me over is in the little things, the small details that show Brad Meltzer knows his way around the DCU, and where the heroes wander into those grey areas as those costumed vigilantes are so prone to doing. My favourite bit was that little snippet that gave so much away:
SPOILERS
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said something about it having gone wrong the one time the senior Justice Leaguers had done something like this, and promptly found himself contradicted.
As to that all-too common phenomenon of the (male) hero's (female) nearest-and-dearest being made a victim for the sake of punctuating a series with some grittiness and emotional drama, I really thought the 1980s Green Arrow had had the last word on this with Black Canary, but then I hadn't reckoned on Jade in 1990s Green Lantern having been sexually assaulted by a pervert in a Santa Claus outfit. Merry Christmas, gentle readers. For some reason, I didn't think Green Lantern merited purchasing that month.
I've felt that way about all sorts of issues of Green Lantern.
"Complete misfit with her character to date, too"
I almost said something like that, but didn't.
Who's to say a woman who's been a victim of such an act can't be a cheerful person years later?
But I take your point, Jamie.
It just seems like a very horrible thing for a writer to do to a character.
I also agree with Usher.
The superhero details are very good. I especially enjoyed seeing the villains meet up, although I can never identify too many, when such things happen.
- Trout
"Who's to say a woman who's been a victim of such an act can't be a cheerful person years later?"
Yeah, I can see that, but you could pretty easily write rape scenes into the backstories for, say, the SCOOBY DOO gang girls using that argument. But what would be the point? Here, presumably, it's a hamfisted rape / mind-rape contrast; the JLA do to the villains what Dr. Light does to Sue. Er... not the same thing, folks!
Also: from the portrayal of Ralph / Sue's relationship - and jesus, I picked this up from FORMERLY KNOWN AS... - Ralph *would* have known, and *would* have killed Dr. Light. That simple.
Unless, of course, there's going to be a revelation that R & S were mind-blanked too.
GREEN LANTERN is, of course, the original girlfriend-in-a-fridge comic. I've never read THE LONGBOW HUNTERS - which I assume is what people are referring to re: Canary - but I'm given to understand that it's pretty unpleasant.
J-Bo-1
Sorry to be a drag, Jamie. Can you explain the origins of 'girlfriend-in-a-fridge' for me; or is it just a catch-all phrase for this type of thing?
Major Force murdered Kyle Rayner's girlfriend and stuffed her corpse in a fridge.
She was only in it for a couple of months and clearly only existed for her refridgerated exit.
- Trout
...and it led to this site:
Link: Women in Regridgerators
Major Force, the old Captain Atom villain? Sheesh, comics aren't for kids anymore are they.
Jade.....
Firehawk might be getting killed too..?
Blimey, sounds grim to me,
Bolt-01
I don't wanna go there right now. Doesn't sound 'work safe' to me. Texas Chainsaw Massacre springs to mind (obviously), but I couldn't hazard a guess at the rest of the content. Mostly comics related, or film too?
Current Green Lantern spoilers
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Major Force has just been "revealed" as the current main villain. Again.
It was obvious who he was last month, too.
I had high hopes for Ron Marz' return to GL, but now it's not great.
And they're bringing back Hal chuffin' Jordan again.
Arses.
- Trout
That is seriously weak.
Usher - it is work safe.
It's really just references to how a long list of female characters have died.
So, unless your work computer picks up on the use of words like "raped," "dead" and "turned into a love slave for a super-villain," it should be okay.
I'm not joking.
- Trout
It's plenty worksafe - it's just a listing by female author (and genius, IMO) Gail Simone of female comics characters / SOs of characters who have been slaughtered. Which, basically, is all of them. Note carefully that *male* heroes usually come back...
J-Bo-1
Oh - if it's just comics and not photographic, fine then. 'Course, some female characters come back. But no-one's pleased when they do! For goodness sake, they've just brought back Rita Farr! What the bloody hell for? I liked her, but it completely undoes everything I've ever known about the Doom Patrol.
Oh, and Supergirl usually comes back.
Batgirl not so fortunate.
"it completely undoes everything I've ever known about the Doom Patrol"
...I forgot to add "and therefore I'm choosing to ignore Rita Farr's return, and the new Doom Patrol comic too."
All DOOM PATROL continuity (*spit*) prior to the current series has been chucked out, not that I care, as they're reprinting the stuff worth reading - i.e. Morrison's run.
J-Bo-1
But don't you have all that already anyway, Boardman-droid?
Certainly enjoyed Morrison's run on the title, although it did suffer from getting a bit samey and up it's own arse-itis near the end of his run. Also suffered from too disperate a group of artists, although Richard Case, Stan Woch, Steve Yeowell Sean Phillips, Jamie Hewlett and Phillip Bond stand out, ably abetted by Simon Bisley's excellent covers (some of the best work he's done in my humble opinion).
I might sell all my issues if DC decide to keep up collecting the series after the first two tpb's. Can't be bothered with the John Byrne one, though.
I also used to enjoy John Workman's lettering and Daniel Vozzo's colouring on the Grant Morrison-written Doom Patrol.
I've looked at that women in refrigerators site now. It's a commendable exercise. Note that the author jumped for the 'cut up and stuck in the refrigerator' line on scant evidence, when the truth is more like 'folded and crammed in' (Surely if the body had been cut up, there'd have been some evidence of blood).
Gail Simone admits she's missed a few, and the site only seems to go up to 1999, but what's there is excellent.
They're reprinting Morrison's Doom Patrol? Thank christ for that, I've heard good things about his run, but never actually read any of it.
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I am disgusted by the revealation of what dr light did to poor sue during the jlas satellite era...Believe me as a huge dibneys fan (yes a fan of a pretty minor wife and husband team i know) I am appalled that they had to reveal THAT
Oh yeah your troutship in the Star man 80 page giant that came out round about 1998 or thereabouts it was revealed that it was Ted that murdered the ragdoll
Spoilers for issue three
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good bye Jean loering another character who will be missed (Although her death was pretty obvious to predict and it makes you wonder about that wonder woman with her lasso tied as a noose which features on next months cover)
This just sounds so incredibly... boring.
I thought eighties nostalgia was on the way out?
SPOILERS FOR ISSUE #3 (???)
Do they really have to?
I'm not sure I like the look of this...
Really, just who are they doing this for?
It's a quality product, but it hasn't got any soul, has it?
Identity Crisis is rapidly going down in my estimation, but it's still kind of fascinating. I can't take my eyes off it just in case they do away with a character I would really miss while I'm not looking.
Women in refrigerators latest...
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...we've got another one. Check out Captain America #31, written by Robert Kirkman.
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I'm still quite into this series, astonishingly.
I want to find out what happens in the end, although I suspect it'll be an anti-climax.
Anyone else still with me?
- Trout
Not being into DC, apart from Batman, when he`s meeting Dredd, Hitman and Green Lantern (when Hitman is making fun of him), I shouldn`t comment on this thread at all. But I liked the fridge link.
carry on,
Floyd (about to check his fridge just in case)
Cancel that fridge for Jean she survives in issue four unbelievably
Haven't read the last issue, but the killer turning out to be
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the Atom is a bit odd. I'm aware of the character from old JLA stories and that Warren Ellis-written episode of Justice League Unlimited, but I'm still not sold on the twist.
And am I the only one who thinks that the new Captain Boomerang is the son of one of the other Flash characters?
Robin's dad biting the dust outside the Bat-books was a nice touch, though.
Just a bit of space there
I've just read #6. I'm not sold on that twist either, although it was quite shocking. And I thought there were some other quite cool shocks as well. They don't show Batman looking that angry nearly often enough. The autopsy evidence was a bit weird and I found it a bit difficult to get my head round that one.
I thought issues 5 and 6 were so much better than issue 4. In fact, they were as good as issue 1.
Women In Refrigerators latest: cancel that fridge for Diamondback in Captain America. She survived - it was only a stupid android double that bought it.
Meanwhile, the Batman crossover War Games has come up trumps.
I will be standing on all of your brains this evening. You have been warned.
RE Batman: War Games.
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Orpheus - loser.
Spoiler - overused loser.
All the cops hunting Batman from now on - well, it's not like they don't pull THAT trick every fart's end, is it? And how would you justify something like that anyway, if his secret's out and everyone knows he really exists, then they know he's in the Justice League - how do you explain to the press that you're shooting at Superman's best mate? You know - the guy who saved Gotham city all those times, then stayed behind to help earthquake survivors when the government abandoned everyone?
These big Bat-crossovers are getting as bad as the Superman books.
Clarification: in terms of coming up trumps I only meant for torturing a female supporting character to death, as if that's what they're there for, and thereby feeding the stereotype that superhero comics are misogynistic.
War Games was, by and large, pointless rubbish, but there were a few good chapters here and there. I bought about half.
What on Earth was the plot, aside from a big gight involving loads of shooting and death?
SPOILERS FOR BATMAN: WAR GAMES
Well, let's see....
XXXX is a master strategist. He works out a scenario whereby crime in Gotham could be brought under the control of just one crime boss. This would be a good thing, because by controlling this crime boss, XXXX would be able to anticipate the crooks' every move, and before long all the baddies would be behind bars.
One of XXXX's lieutenants gets hold of the plan, and puts it into action to try to win brownie points, but it was only an intellectual exercise never intended to be put into practice.
The plan involves pitting Gotham's gangs against one another, which involves a lot of shooting, arson, property damage, and civilian casulaties. The Bat Family do what they can to stop the crooks from doing too much harm, but it's like there's a war going on out there.
Finally, the wrong crook ends up the boss of all organised crime in Gotham, which could make things worse, because now it's more organised than it was.
SPOILERS OVER.
Ah, I see.
zzzzz.
Sorry, Usher, I thought you meant it came up trumps in terms of characters killed off.
I do wonder how they sold the plot point about killing off Spoiler to their editors.
"We want to have the teenage girl tortured to death with a power drill."
Kids read those books, y'know...
Why was she called "Spoiler"?
Because her Dad was a minor villain called "ClueMaster". He was a sort of Riddler knock-off who would leave clues here and there. "Spoiler" thought it'd be great fun to to become an antidote to her Dad, and 'spoil' all his devious schemes by revealing the answers to his clues to save Batman and the authorities puzzling over them.