2000 AD Online Forum

Okay, you all remember the comic versions of Harry Harrison's "The Stainless Steel Rat" novels, published in the hallowed pages of 2000AD in the 100-500 era?  I mention these as a precedent.

Well, how about comic versions of some of Iain M. Banks books?  Specifically, I'm thinking about his 'Culture' novels, although he has written other sci-fi books that aren't set in that particular universe.

That's it:  that's my suggestion.

And it's not an entirely awful one. Though I think I'd prefer 'The Adventures of Lucifer Box' adapted from the novels of Mark Gatiss.

I certainly think Consider Phelbus and Look to Windward would make excellent comic books - would need some pretty heavy editing and revision to squeeze them into regular episodes (assuming you'd go for something like the Meg). Although a TPB would give it space to breath, I actually like the idea of authors returning to the work alongside a comics writers to adapt it to the genre and turn it into regular episodes ... but you're right, Banks has the kind of imagination and writing style that would be rather epic comics!

Yes, I think "Consider Phlebus" would work well:  it has an episodic format already.  Plus, a lot of the imagery is on a grand scale, less to do with what people are thinking and more to do with what is physically happening to them.

That would lend itself well to a comic format.

Bloody excellent idea.

2 questions: would Banks agree to this, and can 2000AD afford it?

I reckon Iain would think it a laugh. He doesn't seem to be too precious about his work.

Affording him though, would be another matter entirely.

Funny to be talking of Consider Phlebus,here and to have spoken of it recently when I dont get much chance to talk on this sort of subject.

Can it be cleared up that the Orbitals are actually Discs with an extensive amount of water in them floating in space with their own inbuilt gravities?Please.

Hairy Wummain too.

The orbitals in Phlebas and in Look to Windward are not discs, but huge rings, with the inhabitants living on the 'inside' surface of the ring.
There may well be disc shaped orbitals, but off the top of my head, I can't think of one. But if you want, I could ask over on the Banks forum for you?

AFAIK they're massive rings, in the style of Larry Niven's Ringworld. Not spotted any discs or owt ...

To varify it Rac,if you could.

Yes they are rings.A bit like Halo's hoop.But doesn't it ring a massive ocean of water too?

What they said:  rings, which don't need a solid core for gravity, because they're spinning.

The one in "Look To Winward" is described in some pretty exacting detail, and we even get a glimpse inside the senses of the Mind that caretakes the whole thing.

(I'm halfway through "The Algebraist", by the by, and it's wonderful.)

woh thas preddy figgin intriguin.

Yes they are rings.A bit like Halo's hoop.But doesn't it ring a massive ocean of water too?
Indeed, and the whole Halo set-up owes more than a nod to the Culture novels.

Like Fate said, check out Windward for loads of stuff on the orbitals.

I'm halfway through "The Algebraist", by the by, and it's wonderful.

Yes it is.

As I understand it, Halo's "Hoop" was a structure placed in the ocean of Earth and tethered just off Manhatten.

Halo Jones was first published in 1984, three years before Iain M Banks first sci-fi novel, "Consider Phlebus".

phlebas people are we taking note?

are we f

Halo Jones was first published in 1984, three years before Iain M Banks first sci-fi novel, "Consider Phlebus".

Oh yeah, but the orbital wasn't a new idea then either:

That's the best pic so far:  gives a better idea of how it all works.

(For further graphical reference see the computer game "Halo", which is mostly set on the surface of a ring-structure, and has the added bonus of allowing you to exterminate swathes of aliens as you appreciate the scenery.)

God, I'm such a tit:  I thought Rac was talking about Halo Jones, when he was talking about Halo the game.

Actually, that's an insult to tits.  I'm a dweeb.

Nah, you're a tit, I like tits.

I think Niven's Ringworld differs from Banks' Orbitals in that the Orbitals, as thier name suggests, orbit their star, rather than being construcuted around them.

In Arthur C Clarke?s 3001 .....
S

P

O

I

L

E

R

mankind has built a massive ring structure around the Earth, connected to the ground by four massive ?towers?, which was made from the diamond core of Jupiter after it exploded at the end of 2010. Although the towers had inertia-less lifts, I can?t remember whether gravity in the ring was maintained through its spin or by technology.

If it was connected to the Earth, then the Earth's spin would provide the inner surface with gravity whilst the Earth's mass would provide the outer surface with gravity.  Bonus!

Although having said that, I can't walk on the ceiling.

this one as a comic as its my bestest cuture book
and i almost chose my boared name as one of the ships  

bugger this one

bugger! this one

mmmm.  Tits.

++culture ship names++
Frank Exchange Of Views
Reasonable Excuse
Added Value
Tactical Grace
Steely Glint
Serious Callers Only
Shoot Them Later
Ethics Gradient
Limivorous
Full Refund
Different Tan
Star Turn
End In Tears
No Fixed Abode
The Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival
Sleeper Service
Grey Area (aka Meat-Fucker)
Honest Mistake
Fate Amenable To Change
Ethics Gradient
Death And Gravity
Problem Child
Not Invented Here
Quietly Confident
Wisdom Like Silence
Dependency Principle
Uninvited Guest
Jaundiced Outlook
What Is The Answer & Why
Use Psychology
ust Passing Through
Charitable View
Misophist
Highpoint
Zero Gravity
It's Character Forming
Yawning Angel

++war ships++
Attitude Adjuster
Furious Purpose
Kiss The Blade
Xenoclast
Heavy Messing

++'Zentetic Elench'or peaceful ships++
Peace Makes Plenty
Break Even
Within Reason
Appeal To Reason
Sober Counsel
Long View

Excession put me on a downer with Banks that I have yet to recover from.
I thought Consider Phlebas was great (and would make a brilliant film - some very cinematic moments in there), Player of Games was very good - and I even liked Use of Weapons AFTER I had finished it (i thought it was a bit of a struggle at first - but the ending made it worth it).

But Excession.  Oh my god. I also made the mistake of giving it to my wife to read as her first Iain M Banks book BEFORE I had read it.  

Whoops.

Best ship name ever was

 I Said, I've Got A Big Stick

Bit too small, that.  Hope this works better

It was the  I Said, I've Got A Big Stick

hold on wasnt Kiss The Blade an affront ship? and what about (the glorious) Killing Time?

I dunno, I'd rather see the writers doing something new, but in comic form.  

I'd love to see the stainless steel rat reprinted, but not really sure if adaptations of books is a good thing.

I just reread Look to Windward over the weekend, and was thinking about dirigible behemothaurs for a comic.

But what I really want to know is: Inversions - what's it all about? I read it three times, and then gave it to my (non-SF-reading) partner to read to see if he could understand it, but we drew a blank.

Ring habitats are all very well, but what you really want is a Dyson Sphere (best example The Time Ships by Stephen Baxter) Invented by the vaccum cleaner guy don't ya know.

I loved Excession, but found the next one really dull.

If we're going to have Iain Banks who's the best artist to realise his vision?

Kev Walker or Colin MacNeil IMHO

Laurence Campbell would be good.

Yo tweak!

The list isn't comprehensive.  "Kiss The Blade" was indeed an Affronter ship, as was "Xenoclast".

Stephen Baxter

longmanshort becomes irrationally angry ...



;)

feridian - 2000AD had dirigible behemothaurs before Banks (but I have no idea who thought of them first).

In one of the Tyranny Rex stories (art by the god-being Steve Dillon) she has to rescue a famous actor from inside a dirigible behemothaur type creature.

Before I go into a long-winded explanation of Inversions, one question:  did you realise that it was a "Culture" novel?

Each to their own, Si:  I loved Excession because it was the first 'Culture' novel where the main characters (in essence) were all ship Minds.

Feersum Endjiin, I found fairly forgettable.  I never go back to re-read it, put it that way.

I'd start off any new readers with "Consider Phlebas".

Did you realise that the main clue to that is absent from the paperback edition?

Dan

Excession put me on a downer with Banks that I have yet to recover from.
I thought Consider Phlebas was great (and would make a brilliant film - some very cinematic moments in there), Player of Games was very good - and I even liked Use of Weapons AFTER I had finished it (i thought it was a bit of a struggle at first - but the ending made it worth it).

now i had exactly the opposit experiance
Excession: brilliant funny wicked tech couldnt put it down
Consider Phlebas: christ i was bored all the way through apart from the bit at the end documenting the war itself dull dull dull

has anyone tryed reading Use of Weapons reading it backwards the forwards following the chapter numbers? makes more sence that way
;)

Before I go into a long-winded explanation of Inversions, one question: did you realise that it was a "Culture" novel?


I'm even more baffled.

I liked Feersum Endjinn a lot, much more than Consider Phlebas.

yo fate all said and done though bloody good recall for the most part i only remember my faves names

Each to their own - absolutely.

One thing I'm sure most would agree is that Excession perhaps is not the best Culture novel to start on - its a bit abstract.

I think if you are coming from a background of more conventional novels, the best book to start with would be  the player of games - it feels like a more complete and approachable story (it doesn't suffer from some of the excesses of Excession)

I read Phlebas first and just found some of the descriptions and set pieces quite awe inspiring - such as the orbitals, and the escape through the the giant Culture ship (whose name escapes me).

Still unsure as to the inferences of the final pages of that book though - remember having a big group discussion on this one and no two people could agree.

feridian - I found a good review of Inversions (http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue144/books.html%22%20target=%22_blank) online which may answer some of your questions, whilst also empathising with confused readers.

It does contain what may amount to massive S P O I L E R S for anyone who hasn't read it.

Talking of S P O I L E R S:

One of the key twists of the novel is not (completely) within the book, but relies on the person reading it.  If you are a fan of Banks sci-fi novels that are set in or deal with the galactic civilisation known as The Culture, then you probably hope and pray that each new book is a "Culture novel", and are therefore a little disappointed when he writes either non-sf, or a book about him driving around drinking whisky, or an sf book not set in The Culture.

Given that to be true, Inversions appears (to all intents and purposes) not to have anything to do with The Culture, for about the first 90% of the book.  Only then, it becomes clear (but not to people who are not familiar with the technology prevalent in The Culture novels) that Vosill is an agent of Contact (or possibly Special Circumstances), a Culture organisation, and that her "ceremonial dagger" (or whatever it was) is in fact a knife-missile (think AI death-machine).  I was never clear on whether or not DeWar was also a member of Contact.

That Banks should choose to include a twist that new readers would probably find utterly bemusing is, well, words almost fail me.  Brave?  Indulgent?  Bizarre?  Make up your own mind.  

see agian i did it the opposit
Excession (yay)
Consider Phlebas (yawn)
Use of Weapons (ooooh twisty turny)
Player of games (not bad second time)

There's an intro to the hardback edition of Inversions what points out that Vassil is "not of our Culture" (think it includes the capital).  This was ommitted in the paperback, as it was judged too spoilerly for the Culture readers.

I think that the nice thing about inversions is that you can read it purely as it appears, without knowledge of the Culture, and get a good read.  If/Once you recognise that it as being Culture then there is a seperate level it works on.  

Dan

I've read a few of his "normal" books but the only SF one I've read is (I think) USE OF WEAPONS.

It's got the best "Oh my God!" twist I have EVER read and the way the novel is structured to bring you to this twist in the middle of the actual story is brilliant.  Good work fella.

I'd really quite like to see something like that in 2000AD.

Now, maybe Derren Brown will tell us how he forced him to choose that word from the millions he has written...

"Use Of Weapons" would probably make any list of my flat out favourite SF books.

Spoiler:

I have to admit i read Inversions after reading an interview with Banks in which he said that as a complete change to the huge scale of Excession he wanted to do a novel on the more subtle side of the Culture. Specifically how two different agents from Contact react to one world - one going native and forsaking the Culture and one doing her job then getting the fuck out of Dodge, via an electrical storm. It was still deadly dull, even knowing what was special about the celemonial dagger.

-shrugs-

I loved it, didn't find it slow in the slightest.

Yup, Inversions is an awesome book.

Banks' used Arthur C Clarks' law that any advanced technology is indistinguisable(sp) from magic, as a theme.

Also, I once had a working theory that the Bodyguard from Inversions was, in fact, Cheridinine Zakalwie from Use of Weapons... a theory which was shot down by Banks' himself when I eventually met him.

Use of Weapons does indeed "Rock the Shit" to coin a phrase popular with the kids.

The chair... brrrr!

Banks' used Arthur C Clarks' law that any advanced technology is indistinguisable(sp) from magic, as a theme.

Wasn't that Asimov?

Ah, me wrong. Sorry.

I didn't think it was him, but I definately thought it was someone very like him...

Without spoilering it, I thought the chair bit in Use of Weapons was ludicrous and a bit out of nowhere, and I was wondering who built it, and what he normally did for a living if he was the first person people thought of when asking themselves "how would I go about doing this?"
Mind you, it was the first and only Banks novel I've ever read, perhaps I'm missing something?  I did read some collection of short stories, one of which was where the Culture (although apparantly it isn't the Culture) have a gawk at Earth and watch Dark Star and Star Trek, and not much else.  It was alright, though.