2000 AD Online Forum

So Far:

Dredd has made me laugh out loud and I was right about the new character. He looks a bit different than the sketch Boo did for me in Brighton.

More later...

Bolt-01

Bolt-01

Funny Dredd, good new story from Sir Pie Suppers & Boo C, Bit of an eh? for last ep. of Synammon, 10 seconders continues well, fab bit of bullet time shenanigans in new ABCs as well as some nice humorous bits.
That was quick.
Is it really a whole week till next prog?

and Special Variant Cover!! Double cover for me!!!

striaght to ebay!!

Nice covers..but ABC left me a bit non plussed, and the page layout was atrocious..it was like a preview..is Steelhorn turning into The Mess again?..I was really looking forward to this returning as its been the best thing in the prog for the last 3 years but the storytelling style of this prog didnt sit right

And the alt:



It's a good prog, this one, starting as it does with a couple of corking covers.  Of course, I'm going to have to out and buy the two seperate variants, so Tharg - the plastic cups are on me.

Judge Dredd: PF
Laughed my ass off at this (pun intended).  *WHIRRRR* "Unnnh!"  (The Judge could have been anyone, but it wasn't about him.)

Synnamon
This is the first time I've seen a story crawl out of the prog on it's belly.  Synnamon is not a character.  There is no story arc.  Three pages of solid exposition doth not a thrill make.  

The "nnnnaaaghhh!" panel is supposed to be showing me what, exactly?  She's climbing up the wall?  What's the point of the Justice Department iconography anyway?  Saving grace:  Cromwell's codpiece raises a titter.

ABC Warriors: The Shadow Warriors
I'm going to need to dig out the back progs as I have no idea who any of the shadow warriors are, except for Doc Maniacus, who killed some people in a hospital once.

This is generally great fun, if a bit abstract at times.  The bit with the sledgehammer shells eating up Steelhorn just doesn't look good, and the bottom of the last two pages seems over-layered.

I love how the first six bullets are explained in great detail and then it just says "Warmonger uses bunker busters" and let's the art do the talking.

Tharg missed an obvious trick here, though.  Swap the order of things around a bit, and it would have been possible to have the 5-bullet spread sitting in the centre pages.  C'mon, Tharg - play the game.

The Ten Seconders: The American Dream
I thought Jen was a young girl, from the first few episodes - but now she appears to be a young woman - how long did that Atlantic crossing take, anyway?

"I love everyone here...yes...I think I'm a bit pissed".  Another quote of the prog.

Am I right in thinking that Mr Stretch has a crush on Jen, and is about to become insanely jealous?

Harry Kipling (Deceased)
Woohoo!  Fun, imaginative, about as far removed from Bix Bloody Barton as you can get, but still awfully British - this is wonderful.  Give them extra oil rations, Tharg, me olde mucker, or ye're an atomic ponce!

Is there any chance this will be the last we see of Synnamon? It's now had three shots, it's gotten progressively worse & now doesn't even have the saving grace of Laurence Campbell's artwork.

Experimentation is great, and giving a strip room to grow is admirable, but I really don't think this deserves another appearance.

Synnamon:  can someone tell me the point of this strip?  I  mean, an actual point?  It  features a generic non-character who's only attempt at back story is a cliched brainwipe thing.  She gets up to space larks, because she's a secret agent.  Some kind of spy anyway.  Except people know her.  Maybe she's some kind of troubleshooter.  Or general friend of the galaxy.  Or something.  Please, for the love of God, no more Synnamon!  

I can understand that Tharg might be drawn to commissioning 'reliable' stuff - but this even fails at the most basic making sense level -  Those last two panels are possibly the worst thing to appear in the prog this century - "Naaaargh" indeed.  After some scrutiny, shes pulling down the thing behind Cromwell - but hweres he gone?  He dismissed her, not himself.  And bringing it crashing down on the poor dead guy is just adding insult to (fatal) injury - very, very poor

Wasn't very taken by the Kipling thing - A Devlin Waugh as zombie rather than vampire lead, with a mass of clunksome expositionary flashback stuff going on.  The turnaround of the "family" was a nice idea, but it didnt work for me - whether the art or the script blunted it, I'm not sure.  I find Si's stuff increasingly overwritten or convuluted to be honest, where a bit if simplicity would sell the ideas better.  

ABC Warriors is just great - I can see why people have trouble with Slaine (though the letter writers "new age crap" rant suggests he gave up on the strip sometime before the latest run, given its change of direction away from all the Goddess stuff), but ABC was just plain bonkers - The ingenious bullets and Bootlegs "motivation" were pure Mills, and it had  some funny lines and a sense of fun that is either missing (Synnamon) or seemed forced (Kipling)

 

Variant covers don?t rock my boat, and Henry Flint?s always seem particularly poor (compare and contrast with the variant Judge Death Meg covers a while back ? now that was worth having!).  So funny to see the Shadow Warriors gathered together and understand how widely the designs vary between the ones designed by Flint and the ones designed by Ezquerra.
The little Nerve Centre note seems blue? cheer up, Robo-Keef!

Best to? not the best:
1. The Shadow Warriors take on the ABC Warriors in fine fashion.  I remember playting this game with my toy soldiers as a kid ? take seven of them, give each one special powers, send them out against armies.  When you get bored of that, invent seven really powerful baddies to stand against ?em.  That?ll keep the game going for a bit.  It?s all awfully silly, in a good way.
2. Wagner, Ranson, Judge Dredd.  Even when it seems a little stretched (wouldn?t this have been a much better 3-pager?), that team-up?s still class in a glass.  This is them coasting on their talents a fair bit, mind.
3. Well, we?re in New York, and it?s quite clear that Mark Harrison didn?t pay much attention to the latter half of the script when he was designing the young female character.  Either that or this is really quite pervy.  Or some weird game is being played with time.  All the way round, The Ten-Seconders isn?t quite living up to its initial promise.  I assume that this is Book I of a planned long-running arc, and hope that Book II lays some of the grumbles to rest as the writer and artist bed in.  Please, please, Mr Williams, can you set all scenes outside in a desert at midday, so Mr Harrison can?t get away with drawing all these black cats in a coal mine?
4. A new character from my two favourite ?new? creators: gotta be genius, right?  Well, um, not on the basis of a shockingly tired preview episode that reminded me of nothing so much as Dinosty, and didn?t engage my interest at all.  Hopefully this is a teething problem ? certainly Tharg seems to think it?ll be genius, and he tends to be right.  
5. I?ve defended Synnamon many times before, but this story was cack from beginning to end.  Why?  The set-up is so full of promise, the character has a good balance of light and dark, the tech is like nothing in any other 2000AD story.  It?s a great premise all the way round.  Why ruin it with rubbish, clich?d, pointless, boring, overly complicated, plain silly, information over-heavy crap like this?

Overall, not the greatest prog, with only the ABC Warriors rising above a ?5? on the Thrillpowerometer.  Hopefully next prog?s 2 new stories will prove a bit more enjoyable.

DIdn't Tharg's intro suggest that Synnamon was a reboot? If so, perhaps it's a last throw of the dice, to see if the character could work.

Frankly, I didn't find it all that bad (although I still wonder why a new character was needed when Rose O'Rion is still in the vaults), just somewhat "meh". I wouldn't start gnashing if it returned, but I'm also not excited about the prospect either.

Oh, and Watcher, I think what?s happening in the final 2 panels of Synammon is that she?s attacking Cromwell, forgetting that he?s a hologram, and thus going straight through him, hitting the bulkhead behind him, and pulling it down onto the prone body of the duplicate captain.

Arthur Ranson said in the interview he did for 2000adreview a while back ? ?Angus Allen, John Wagner and Alan Grant. 99.99% of my work has been with these writers. Inventive, professional, prolific, original, idiosyncratic and inventive writers who know how comic strip works. I once had a script that started ?Frame 1: He comes into the room, takes off his coat, kisses his wife and sits down at the table where he opens a newspaper?. But these guys understand frame by frame narrative.?  I can guess what he?d say about the Syn writers.  

forgetting that he?s a hologram,

He's not a hologram, or else he couldn't have shot the Captain. Nah - it was a symbolic gesture - Synnamon throwing a strop and signifying the death of justice. Deep, huh?

M@

I don't understand the negativity being levelled at Harry Kipling (Deceased) - but then when do we ever all agree on something?

The art is gorgeous and beautifully detailed and imaginative - from throwaway Belardinelli-isms such as the eye-stalk triplets to that amazing scene of the steam-tech british army with it's dali elephants.  

The script has gorgeous twists and turns, lulling us into initially thinking that the aliens are cutesy beings and then blind-siding us with the hume-munching, which reveals not only the true nature of the gods, but also the scale of things.

I call it a stunning, bravuro new thrill, right up there with the excitement generated for me by the opening episodes of Ace Trucking, Rogue, Slaine and Nemesis.

---

I like the ABC Warriors - but that's not really got a story - it's just an excuse to show us some beautifully drawn toy soldiers going head to head.

---

Thrill-Order (beast to worchester):

Harry Kipling (Deceased)
The Ten Seconders
Judge Dredd
ABC Warriors
Input
Cover
Nerve Centre
Advert
Staples
Copyright text
Anything I've Missed
Synnamon

I considered that, but Cromwell shoots the guy, so he can hardly be a hologram... can he?  Sadly, I'm not entirely sure! :)

I did quite like the idea behind the family telling one side of the story, for it to be revealed that something else was going on - But it's a bit of a con really - they are cutesy until the script demands they aren't.  Who is the cutesy 'show' for, other than the readers?

I really like Boos colouring, but I'm not too keen overall - still some stodgy figures and sausagey hands. Brendan McCarthy on this could have papered over a lot of the cracks, though whether thats a good thing...

Yeah, for me that?s the problem? it just feels like it was plotted on a graph by someone saying ?Hmmmm, how to best replicate Ace Garp??  Not that there?s anything wrong with graphs and flipcharts and stuff per se, but I just had a very strong feeling of being told what to like (or, even worse, being told to have my mind blown by Si?s cosmic whore-script).  Does anybody else catch a strong whiff of ?What do you get if you cross Shakara with Devlin Waugh??  Also, this felt like unfortunate timing having only just had a deceased character (Darren Dead) pop up in the Meg.

Strangely, I also had a problem with Boo?s art for the first time ever.  There?s something weird about the perspective, and the aliens? constant shape-shifting meant that I didn?t get a very clear grasp on who was who.  

It?s probably just the extremely high expectations that both of these creators have generated in the past, and like I say I hope to come back to this thread at some point in the future and wonder what I was on not have seen Kipling?s brilliance from the beginning.

I don't mind Synnamon, to be honest.  Sure, it was a bit clunky this time around- especially towards the end- and those last few panels were just plain confusing and rushed for me- but I'd still urge Tharg to give it another go.

In retrospect, I think that the first story was played out too early and would've worked better later on.  Either way, give it another go- I'd rather give this a chance to pick up than flick through yet another tired Slaine yawn-a-thon.

And get Campbell back on the art chores- you know it makes sense (with apologies to David Roach).  At least if the story fails to deliver, we'll have something nice to look at...

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but "cosmic whore-script"?

wtf?

:: I don't understand the negativity being levelled at Harry Kipling

Likewise. Just about the only thing that annoyed me about it was that it's not back next week. Sure, it's a little derivative, but so have plenty of decent thrills in the past, so I'm very prepared to give this one a shot.

The only other niggle was the colouring, which was pretty murky. I'd love to see someone with much cleaner colouring/inking get their hands on the work (or for Boo to perhaps simplify it and add a little more saturation).

Elsewhere, it was an enjoyable prog, overall: a really nice one-off Dredd, a decent Ten-Seconders episode, and some throwaway shooty action from the ABC Warriors (which, it has to be said, very much read like a Pixar version of a comic).

: Everyone's entitled to their opinion,
: but "cosmic whore-script"? wtf?

Lighthearted pun, intended to show that none of this is terribly serious.

Oh, okay :)

I still don't get it, but okay.

I'm with Fate - Loved Harry Kipling. It was certaintly much more fun than the ABC Warriors and Synnamon, which I just haven't physicaly been able to bring myself to read since the second episode. It's confusing, with far too much exposition for it's own good.

Dredd was genius, but then I'm a sucker for these fun little stories about the oddities of Meg-life. Followed closely by Harry Kipling, Ten-Seconders, ABC Warriors - Which was good, but over far too quickly. I feel if this had opened with a double length episode, I'd have appricated it more... But then no Kipling, so not worth it! And Synnamon tailing in behind.

I'd love to see the script for that last part of Synammon.

PAGE 2, PANEL 1: Synnamon and Cromwell talking.

PAGE 2, PANEL 2: Synnamon and Cromwell talking.

PAGE 3, PANEL 3: Synnamon and Cromwell talking.

etc.

Four pages of exposition and I still don't get it. What was the significance of the kids at the start? It was a lovely beginning anyway, and there was plenty of imagination on show in the first series. There was also some pseudo Robin Hood stuff along the way which hinted at something bigger.

But, come on, it took two people to write this?

-So what do think of this, Col? "Come in. The door's open."

-Genius, Chris. In fact, let's use two panels for that.

-Great idea!

Jeez - at least it's an incentive to get my arse in gear and write that Future Shock. I'll stop there - this is turning into a rant.

M@

Jeez - at least it's an incentive to get my arse in gear and write that Future Shock.

I've got to agree there - it ain't the worst thing I've ever read, but when I know people have submitted some truly (almost)wonderful stuff and still been rejected, it's a little disheartning to see this in the prog time and again.

"Spurrier in Divides-The-Readership Shocker"


Hold the front page!

Not read it all yet, but I didn't think Dredd was particularly good.

Just to throw my tuppence in the ring.

Never liked or could get into Synnamon, as I said in another thread, I prefered Rose O'Rion.

ABC Warriors, kinda forgotten what's going on, but I have the back progs to make sense of it.

Dredd - an amusing one-off, but when does Origin start?

Ten Seconders - just great, still not sure where it's heading, but loving it just the same.

Harry Kipling - nearly reads like a Future Shock that Si liked the character from.
Also, have been re-reading the Redwall books recently and can't help but compare Harry to the Hares in those books.  Anyone else think that?

::"PAGE 3, PANEL 3: Synnamon and Cromwell talking."

...in an office.

So, should they have been talking on top of a train? A Conveyor Belt?

DOING A 360 KICKFLIP OFF THE STATUE OF LIBERTY?!

>Dredd - an amusing one-off, but when does Origin start?

It's still being written and a very nice read it is too.

Wasn't the statue of liberty destroyed in their experimental teleportation accident?

Hmm - Me no like alt cover trick so plumped for the ABC one.

Dredd - Simple & funny with cracking art.

H.Kipling - I'm guessing this is meant to get me intrigued as there's really no background info on Kipling. Bad man who likes doing bad things is dead but not really. Oh and he hunts Gods. I wouldn't mind if I saw more of this but then again wouldn't lose any sleep if I didn't.

ABC - I really, really like this. Madcap ideas with lovely art. So what if its just a big slugfest when its this enjoyable.

Synnamon - Oh dear. Generic character climbs the walls in outrage. I really did wonder where she was going on that 2nd panel. Tharg should implement the US 3 strikes and you out rule. No more please...pretty please?

10 Secs - Enjoying this but would like it made clearer in the art whether she's a jailbait Lolita or perfectly alright and totally above board teenage temptress.

Oh and good to see the cut-out coupon back in the prog. Its been a while.

A good prog made great by the end of Synnamon. Amen.

So how much does the dual-cover edition weigh? My subs copy still hasn't arrvied, and that's normally due to weight problems!

Almost 106% the normal weight.

Art-wise, this was an outstanding Prog. You can never have too much Arthur Ranson, spiky-spiky Henry Flint fits perfectly with the ABCs , apart from a couple of dodgy panels I thought Synammon looked gorgeous and the final page of Ten Seconders is one of the best looking things I've seen in a prog for ages. The only fly in the ointment was Boo Cook: I just can't decide if I like his work or not. Things like the Hieronymus Bosch dinner table and the monocle-wearing bionic elephants are brilliant but I have trouble getting past the overall cartoony feel.

The stories all seem pretty good to me as well.

JD - Perfect light-hearted one off.

Harry Kipling - I've pretty much missed all of Devlin Waugh, so I don't have any problems with that. Quirky and amusing, but I like pretty much everything of Spurrier's I've read.

ABC Warriors - What a difference from Slaine! Still features the Mills-patented narrative technique of describing at great length a whole bunch of cool things you've thought up at the expense of plot, but wrapped up in a fun story about giant robots knocking lumps out of each other.

Synammon - Not brilliant, but it really doesn't seem as bad to me as a lot of you think. I like to see a real, honest-to-god, old-fashioned sci-fi story from time to time and I that's exactly what this is (or, at least, has the setting and potential to be.)

Ten Seconders - Continues to be patchily great. I think a lot of this is probably down to uncertainty over whether it's a one-off or an ongoing series. It seemed to me like Jen was supposed to be 17/18 from the outset.


Caveat - I genuinely can't believe people would buy the exact same comic twice to get a different cover.

:: "I genuinely can't believe people would buy the exact same comic twice to get a different cover."

They're called completists.

Empire magazine went up to 4 alternate covers for a single issue!  I nearly went up to 4 on them, the money-grabbing corporate whores.

Got the ABC cover.

Fascist Cop: Entertaining one-off. Great idea and execution plus Ranson art. Ending could of been so bad, but Wagner pulls it off once again. Good Stuff.

Aristocratic Monster hunter: Not too keen on some aspects of the art, as mentioned by others, but I generally like it. I liked the script enough to hope for a proper series, but I am doubtful that Kipling himself could avoid getting stale after too long. OK Stuff.

Mismatched Killer Robot team: A lovely big fight to start off the last book, the script serves its purpose, establishing the danger posed by the Shadows, and I'm interested to see what Bootleg is all about. Hopefully Mills will bring the lunacy next week. Flint's art is dependably lovely. Very Good Stuff.

Kick-ass Space Chick: When I was in Middle school, we had to do a test where we had to write to write a short story in 30 minutes or so. Usually, I ran out of time, and ended up writing something along the lines of:

 "...and then, suddenly, she was hit by a car.
But then she woke up sweating. It had all been a dream".

or:

"... Just as the madman was about to strike, her boyfriend, Chad, showed up and shot him. They gazed at each other and then kissed."

It appears that I can now be paid for doing this as an adult. SSSSOOOOOO DULL. I kinda liked the second serial, but I'm not willing to see if Clayton and Dows only deliver on even-numbers. If this had been the first Syn story, then I would of agreed with it being voted "Worst Thrill" ahead of Dead Men Walking back in '03. Very Bad Stuff.

Post-Apocalyptic resistance group: Better than previous episodes, due to the absence of any God action, apart from right at the end. I've already forgotten who all the other characters are, so the football guy is a good inclusion, as he'll at least stick out. Mad Props Yo. The Jesus talk is a bit cheesy, but nothing too grating. OK Stuff.

Overall: Ok Prog, worth ?1.75 but no more. Synnamon isn't enough to sour the whole prog but still... OK Stuff.

Can someone with handy access to the relevant back progs tell me this, because I swear I haven't gone mad:

Dog-Tag. Back in the first two books, he didn't look like a dog. He didn't. He's turned into a dog for no reason. What the hell's going on?

Perhaps the change from Ezquerra has something to do with it. Dogtag wasn't in Book 2 much, so perhaps you're remembering Carlos's version?

A cheap way out would be to say he's using a different body - something most of the ABCs have done in their time.

I think DogTag was wearing a tri-corner hat and bandana over his face for much of his appearances so far, so perhaps he was dog like beneath the highway robber get out.

Didn't Dogtag get his head blown off? I forget. Anyway, I assumed that, like The Hamster, he'd got himself a brand new head.

Anybody heard 'I Like Mike' by Jay Spears? It's fantastic.

I really liked this week's Dredd.

The Ten Seconders was still good stuff.

Kipling was lots of fun; promising. I look forward to more.

I thought Synnamon was dull but not actually dreadful.

I hated the ABC Warriors. The scripting is clunky and spoils it, although the art was good.
Like Slaine and SinDex, I'll keep skimming it and wait patiently for it to bugger off.

- Trout

Great Prog.  Liked my variant cover (both of them).  Thanks, Green-bonce.

Dredd - I like these kind of stories once in a while, and it's nice to see Mr. Ranson back in the weekly.  When do we get more Button Man.

The ABCs return with style - but isn't this the second Malevolent Seven that has graced the pages of the Galaxy's Greatest?  The Mean Arena, anyone - Steve Dillon art?

Synnamon - over, thankfully.  I tried to like this, I really did.  But couldn't.

Harry Kipling entertained me and I'll be happy to have more.  Certainly far better than other uses of recent pages *cough - Synnamon - cough*.

Ten Seconders is coming along nicely and I wonder where it's going (I missed the start, but will catch up in a week or two when I pick up the Progs from the last three months of 2005 - yay).

Everything I felt about this Prog has already ben said by other people, so I'll just put mine in the order I enjoyed them most.

1. ABC Warriors
2. Judge Dredd
3. Synnamon
4. The Ten-Seconders
5. Harry Kipling (deceased)

ABC Warriors looked great, but "X uses Y bullets" slowed down the action and was a poor narrative device that used to serve very well on educationally improving children's cartoons like Bod. Sorry I didn't hate Synnamon enough this Prog. Maybe I was just grateful that it all got cleared up and explained - much easier than being expected to think for myself: I hate when writers do that - but it didn't offend nearly as much as it usually does. Hooray that it ended so quickly. It was the least good episode of The Ten-Seconders yet. Harry Kipling totally failed to grab my imagination on any level and had me totally not caring. The colouring works against it too, as if the alien gods' only source of lighting is a roaring fire giving off a lot of glare or they live beside a motorway under a whole bank of sodium lighting that's hard on the eyes and not good enough to read by.

Return of the newsagent reservation form. Great!

Feqbarr - I checked the back progs and Dogtag used to look like Dick Turpin.  His gang all had little dog ears, but no obvious snouts.  Joe Pineapples blew up Dogtag's getaway vehicle, thus nearly destroying him (as we're told in a later piece of dialogue).

That would explain why he's opted for a new body and also why he's gunning for Pineapples.

Good memory, btw, as that was almost three years ago.