2000 AD Online Forum

...Welcome to TORCHWOOD...

Really looking forward to this, if only in the hope that it lets the second series go out on a high, erasing the memory of the last two duff episodes.

Some interesting SPOILERS...






















SPOILER SPACE

















...more pics showing the episode have been cropping up, and along with the return of Alternate Pete Tyler and Mickey, there are more shots of a black Dalek.

The previews are all making mention of the sphere - apparently dubbed a "Void Ship" - being featured in the cliffhanger, opening to reveal... something? It doesn't seem to be the case that the Cybermen are travelling in the Void Ship, but who else could be using it?

DAVROS!!!!!!













Or maybe not!

Heh, not bad at all.

A far more old-school approach to this episode, and for me it worked wonders. I'm not at all sure that Daleks vs Cybermen is going to work all that well, but I must admit to a little fanboy shiver seeing the Daleks - led by a Supreme Dalek? - emerging from the Void Ship.

Roll on next week!

Yeah, liked that. Tennant impressed in the quiet moments.

That bit at the start with all the tv shows with ghosts was embarrassing to watch.  Someone wrote that, sent it to the actors, who practiced it, while set-builders built sets and the director went about making plans for the scenes - AND AT NO POINT DID SOMEONE SAY "THAT'S A LOAD OF SHIT".  Frightening, and everything that gets my goat about the Americanised Buffy clone that Who has become.
Got better after that, but then it'd be hard not to.  Maybe that was the writer's cunning plan all along.

...which is why he - or the director/producer? - would keep his performance keyed down a notch or two. He makes for a far more commanding figure when he's not pulling faces and doing daft things with his voice.

I must admit to a little fanboy shiver seeing the Daleks

Heh. Whereas that moment garnered an "Oh. Fuck. Off" from me.

I thought the episode was pretty cringeworthy in the most part with bit-part actors obviously appearing courtesy of the British Forestry Commission along with some *really* embarassing bits from Tennant ("Ghostbusters!"). Cybermen vs Daleks is in very dire danger of being just like the abortion that was Aliens vs Predator...with mankind trapped in the middle!

Didn't the producers of the original Who series say they'd never, ever do a Daleks vs Cybermen story on the basis that it might be too expensive, and the day they did, it would be the day they officially ran out of ideas?

Ah, well. As I say, I remain to be convinced that RTD & Co. can make Cybermen vs Daleks work - assuming that's the plan, given the pre-finale hype about "two mighty armies battling across Earth" - and the delight at seeing the Daleks comes more from me being a massive fan of the creatures.

Not really too fussed about the daft telly shows at the beginning - the only one that I thought was badly misjudged was the Eastenders skit - as they made sense within the story.

Some pretty good performances from the main characters - though as Wils says, some of the bit part actors were pretty ropey - and I particularly liked the gruesome new earpod the Cybermen were installing.

Could all go to shit next week, but until then...

"I thought the episode was pretty cringeworthy in the most part "

Not as bad as the snippet from next week:

"Daleks plus Cybermen ... we could upgrade the UNIVERSE!"

Oh ... Mr Tennant ... would you mind jumping over this shark one more time? I don't think everyone got it the last time ...

Bah!

Jim

Oh, and mind the spoilers for next week, please. I think there are quite a few people who switch off before the trailer - me included.

:-)

"That bit at the start with all the tv shows with ghosts was embarrassing to watch"

That's what RTD does with every Earth invasion episode - convey it via TV clips.

Lazy.

ADE

S P O I L E R S

P

O

I

L

E

R

S

Doctor Who
"Doomsday"

The end of an epic journey, as two mighty armies wage war across the Earth, with the human race caught in the middle. But as an unstoppable terror emerges from beneath Torchwood, the Doctor faces an even greater dilemma - does saving the world mean the death of Rose Tyler?

Guest stars: Tracy-Ann Oberman and Henry Winkler

That was so good I almost forgot the football...

Losts of nice things in that (like the mummy at the edge of frame) to make up for the usual crap bits (Ghostbusters... dear oh dear) and mega-obvious forshadowing...

Still hopefully it will all finish with a bang, Torch Wood! (you see what I did there!)

Tchh! Now you've gone and ruined the surprise, Wils!

Heeeey-exterminate!

Excellent.

My Davros guess can still hold though. That tin box thing the daleks were trailing about could well be him.

Must confess to only seeing the last 15 mins of this as I was caught up in the europhia of England getting put out of the World Cup (you know, the one everyone was banging on about 'this is our (your) year' and 'best England team since 1966, going to win it' etc.... I'll watch repeat tomorrow.

Anyway, now the episode has aired, anyone want to have a guess at where these Daleks come from?

The bronze models are the same as the ones from last series, but the black Dalek is far more like the classic series Dalek Supreme. They don't appear to be alternate universe versions of the Daleks - unlike the Cybus Industries Cybermen.

Are they perhaps an exploratory group sent out into the Void? Or are they another batch of escapees from the Time War?

BTW - anyone else wondering whether Rose will die, but be "regenerated" by some convenient quirk of having looked into the heart of the TARDIS in the finale of series one?

That swine Russel T. Davis STOLE MY IDEA!

I wrote the story of the Darlecks and the Cibermen teaming up to fight Doctor Who!  I DID!

It was three pages long and it had drawings and everything.

If next week has Doctor Who teaming up with Strontium Dog, Amtrak from 'Return to Armegeddon' and Adam Ant and ends in a big battle outside the shops at the end of my road, I SHALL SUE!

Dalkes v Cybermen is all they can think of to end a series.  Oh dear.

The Doctor is now irretrievably in my mind, a complete cock.  Ghostbusters indeed you time travelling twat.

Don't like Rose, don't like her mum, don't care what happens to them as long as I never have to see them ever again.  Hopefully they'll fuck off to a rather crap parrallel world to Buffy, because that's where they belong.

I got a bit of a buzz out of seeing the Daleks zoom out, but then, I know that that's all I'm probably going to get out of it.

Tha Abzorbaloff was an episode I quite enjoyed, but it showed me that what I dislike about Doctor Who is at the very heart of the show.  

The Olympics episode was the point where I stopped trying to convince myself this wasn't anything but a load of crap.

Russel T Davies is an absolute nob, and every time I see Doctor Who confidential, I want to punch him.  While he sits around clapping and smarming and backslapping at the script meetings, someone should really stand up and point out it's a load of toss.  Just like Second Coming was.

This stuff is coasting on a brand image that people have a lot of good will invested in.  I stick by what I said early on in series 2, that that's going to be pretty much gone by the end of series 3. At the moment it should be moved to 5pm weekdays to it's spiritual home on CBBC.  Maybe see if Timmy Mallet is available for the next regeneration.

Anyway, got that out of my system.

"Oh, and mind the spoilers for next week, please."

My apologies ... I didn't think spoilers mattered when it was a dreadful load of old shite!

But the apology is genuine: sorry, chap!

Cheers

Jim

I never thought I'd say this...

'I agree with bumsex'

Actually I don't think this episode jumped the shark as such, I think more that it's had the same problems since the start, but the guy in charge thinks they are vitues instead of flaws.  He's the boss, so fair enough.

I'm going to watch the TV Movie with McGann tomorrow and see if I enjoy it more than I enjoyed tonights show.

Jim --

Heh, no worries.

It does sound like a pretty awful line, but I'm hoping that whatever they do with the showdown next week will justify putting the Daleks & the Cybermen together for the first time. I have a horrible feeling all it will do is cheapen both, and if it all degenerates into an Aliens Vs Predator style mess, then I'll be joining Paul on the "Fuck RTD" picketline...

Some things that particularly annoyed me...

The fucking great levers on the floor, god how crap were they.

The East Enders bit... because it made no fucking sense (I won't nerd out and explain why because I can't be bothered) and I've just realised it reminded me of the Noel House Party ep...

The levers were particularly unnecessary, weren't they? And at least the other TV shows made sense within the context of the story - even though they were a bit daft, the "ghost forecast", news segments and Trisha show were plausible given what had been going on in the world.

I had to admit the bloke dressed head to foot in Burberry in the Trisha audience made me laugh (I felt guilty as that bit was sooo nicked from Shaun of the Dead)

And I sooo hated the 'let's explain this particular gadget in great detail as it's going to turn up later' bit... that was so cloth-eared.

Well, I could have kind of enjoyed this episode - the only really knobbish thing about it was Tennants fucking Ghostbusters chicken walk shite... actually worse than the drunk scene in the Moffatt one - thats some achievement!  

If they could provide a red button option to edit all scenes of knobbishness from the Doctor  out, they could improve the series 10 fold.

I liked it a lot.

The Ghostbusters bit was cringeworthy but mercifully brief, though like a lot of the pop-culture refs thrust into the show, it would have been fine if it had been played a little lower key.

"I'll be joining Paul on the "Fuck RTD" picketline..."

If our worst fears are confirmed, then I, too, will be joining that line.

And I'll be bringing a pick-axe handle with the words "Russell T Davis" carved into it.

"Ahem ... excuse me, Mr Davis ...

"It's called ... Science [THWACK!] Fiction [THWACK!] because it's [THWACK!] Fiction with [THWACK!] science in it! [THWACK!]

"Billie-fiucking-Piper [THWACK!]

"And her fucking mum! [THWACK!]

"Timmy fucking Mallet [1] [THWACK!]

"You [THWACK!] fucking [THWACK!] tosser!" [THWACK!]

Bah! Again!

Jim

[1] Timmmeeeeeeh!

I shall now never be able to think of Timmy Mallet without going "Timmmmeeeeh! Livinalie! Imlivingalie!"

I enjoyed it, even with all the bits that made me think "no - don't do that - do it a bit more subtly than that..."

(even "Gonnae no' do that")

Top marks, minus points deducted for showing off.
8/10, B+

However, top marks for keeping redundant eastenders in work

Something that made me slightly homicidal/hysterical amused was RTD saying that with Doctor Who he had made it a bit Roald Dahl.

Roald Dahl was a master storyteller.  If there was one ghost they did need last night, it might have been his.

Although I know I'm going over the top with my dislike of the show, it's been bubbling since the last series.  If I don't get it out of my system, I might damage myself.

>However, top marks for keeping redundant eastenders in work

Oh yes, full points for her clevage

...even my girlfriend guessed the ghosts were the Cybermen, and she knows nothing about Dr Who, 'nobody likes a smart arse...'

...also, if Rose is really DEAD, how can she narrate the story in the opening sequence???...

Well.... either she is really dead and her narration is just  literary device - see the narrator of Desperate Housewives - or she's not dead but has had to pretend to be dead to everyone, including the Doctor in order to save the universe or something.

That's my guess...

- pj

I'm inclined to agree with just about everything PVS has to say.

Always thought RTD was a bit smug about getting the job of bringing back Dr Who. It's like Dr Who lite really, and yes it does smack of CBBC.

Said it before, get rid of RTD, get rid of Piper (happening, yay!), change the formatt from US style 45min episodes back to the half hour episodes with stories developing over 3, 4, 5 weeks.

The Doctor carrying the Olympic torch did it for me, just dopey!

Russel T Davies is an absolute nob, and every time I see Doctor Who confidential, I want to punch him. While he sits around clapping and smarming and backslapping at the script meetings, someone should really stand up and point out it's a load of toss. Just like Second Coming was.

Indeed, and any optimism I had for Torchwood evaporated with his comments that it would be 'for adults... about action.. and SEXUALITY!'

Mrh.  One track mind, that fellah...

Hey still looking foward to torchwood as captain jack is in it.

Personally, knowing his writing I really think the only reason for the inclusion of Torchwood is that RTD thinks it's clever to have an anagram of Doctor Who.

Not that there's any actual reason plot-wise for the two to have have related names, it's just that it's 'clever'. Ironic that after taking someone else's old series and making it crap, he now plans to do the same with a character introduced by Steven Moffatt - a far better writer than himself. How about he actually come up with a series of his own to mess up before starting on other peoples?

ADE

I jsut ahd a flashback to how RTD would give interviews where he said that the papers were speculating that actors of the calibre of Ken Dodd and Paul Daniels were being touted, and that showed how far the show had fallen.  

So why cast a great actor, then have him play the character in a simialr manner to the way one would suppose Michael Barrimore would do it?

Captain Jack as a character was handed to Stephen Moffat in his list of things to be included in Empty Child along with the basic plot points of kids in London hunted by a thingy that's created by nanobots. The fact that it all worked so well and Jack was a likeable character has much to do with Moffats immense strength as a script writer (and Barrowmans irritatingly amiable personality) but it's not quite true to say he's going to mess with a character Moffat created. One Moffat defined is perhaps closer.

And no there's no real reason for the programmed to have a name that's an anagram of Doctor Who. I believe the initial reference in Bad Wolf was an in-joke. Torchwood was an anagram used to disguise the content of Who related tapes and files from other people.

I'm quite optomistic about Torchwood but hope season three is better than two. I can't help feel that season one having a longer gestation was a good thing and think it's a shame we couldn't alternate. I'd happily wait a year for season three if that meant a better general quality.

"I jsut ahd a flashback to how RTD would give interviews where he said that the papers were speculating that actors of the calibre of Ken Dodd and Paul Daniels were being touted, and that showed how far the show had fallen."

I thought one of the complaints about the old show was they were giving cameo appearances to the likes of Ken Dodd, a sign of how far the show had fallen. That was before Trinny and Susannah and Anne Robinson.

ADE

Have to say that I thought this was probably the weakest episode of the whole relaunch, and the- frankly rather brilliant- shark jumping pictures above sum it up exactly.

However.

In it's (possible) defence, I will just say that this could well be the first really, really bad episode that is really, really bad in exactly the same way that the really, really bad episodes of original Doctor Who were really, really bad. Shitty fx, lazy over-lit direction, no attempt to build-up suspense, a ludicrous plot that makes no sense to the casual viewer and relies upon things mentioned over a year ago (who was it who said that, in TV, anything that happened more than six months ago is ancient history and should be ignored?), internal logic-breakdowns, blatant fanwank of the most spurty order, terrible performances (esp Tennant) and a bored-looking cast (Coduri and Clarke). If it WAS really, really bad in that way, then hopefully this might also be the first episode that becomes a much-loved classic for those reasons alone- like so many of the originals.

And maybe bloody Dr Who Magazine can go back to be affectionately humorous about the show and ditch the po-faced sincerity that everything is utterly wonderful and all negative comment is purely evidence of sad geek-boys at work/ get a life/ etc- the agenda that it has held since 'Rose'.

If next series is to be the last (which is looking ever-more-likely: just when were we all expecting the BBC to commission series four? I'd've thought by now, definately) I'd be happy in the knowledge that, while there have been some astonishingly good stories over the last year and a bit (Empty Child/ Dr Dances, Impossible Planet/ Satan Pit being just two) that it wasn't afraid to be SPECTACULARLY bad as well. I think I'd love it all the more for that.

Next week: Oh please let it be Davros- or Adam from Dalek/ Long Game, in a Davros chair, with a stick-on third eye. He says, crowbarring in a Biotronic Man reference to get it a little more on topic for this board.

Steev

Well, the second and third series - together with the 2005 and 2006 Christmas specials - were commissioned at the end of series one, so I wouldn't be surprised if an announcement about a fourth series came in the next few weeks. It's still attracting large audiences & great audience share so I'm not seeing any reason why they would ditch it after series 3, rather than persevere with what's becoming a flagship show for them.

 

Er, weren't the xmas special, series 2, xmas special 2 and series 3 all commissioned at the same time in the days following series 1/ep 1's massive impact? I believe they were...

We are now at the very end of series 2 and... nothing. If the BBC are so keen to commission ahead, I would have expected at the very least a series 4 commission- and probably ser4/xmas3/series 5.

Steev

AND- is there anyone here who really believes that the show will still engender the BBC's goodwill, once RTD ups and leaves? It's only here because he wanted to do it, and now Phil Collinson has gone (after losing Mal Young right back at the start of series one), surely it must be somewhat 'up in the air'? And I can't believe that RTD's agent isn't DEMANDING he call it quits after series three...

Steev
Cynical? Pah, I'm far too cynical to be called cynical.

Were they? I must admit I can't remember exactly, but I thought that the new material had been commissioned toward the tail end of series 1. I'd be surprised if a further two series and Xmas specials had been commissioned off the back of the first episode.

Isn't it possible that any announcement on series 4 could be held up pending negotiations between the Beeb and David Tennant, or whoever is slated to be the Doctor's next assistant? More plausible than the BBC deciding to cancel such a successful series, surely?

A quick check on the news archives at Outpost Gallifrey confirms that series two and The Xmas Invasion were announced on March 30th, 2005- four days after series one started- and that series three and Xmas Special 2; 'The Secret of Boe', were announced at the Bafta screening of 'Parting of the Ways' on June 15th, 2005. So we were both right!

But I'd still have expected series 4 to be commissioned by now.

Steev

I was just being silly about the title of xmas special2, by the way... Heh.

Steev

I enjoyed it a lot.

I liked the Daleks' entrance.

Lots of fun!

- Trout

Indeed, and any optimism I had for Torchwood evaporated with his comments that it would be 'for adults... about action.. and SEXUALITY!'

Mrh. One track mind, that fellah...

I can't wait to see your reaction to the Graham Norton appearance in Series 3:)

Btw, I quite like this week's episode, and the Daleks managed to cheer me up even after the footie.

Bloody hell - why is there always so much whining fanboyness when it comes to a who thread.

I thought it was a superb episode, very funny, very dramatic and a great Who - lots of fun the way it should be.

"Bloody hell - why is there always so much whining fanboyness when it comes to a who thread."

Sadly, that's the coverall argument for people (including it seems RTD) who don't actually have an argument.  You see it in all sorts of discussions, including 2000AD.  And is the equivelent of singing 'tra lal la' loudly with your fingers in your ear.  It's designed to conveniantly disregard a whole lot of people's opinions, usually negative ones, without having to answer them.

Never allowed to apply to football fans for some reason, no matter how stupid or hysterical they are.  'I really thought this was the one...' 'that game wasn't very good, I'm going to cry'.

If you think it's a great Doctor Who episode, then fair enough.

Anyway, roll on Life on Mars.

To be fair, though, a lot of the criticisms are exactly the same thing:  just "it's crap" without any kind of explanation.  It's difficult to deconstruct a vacuous statement.

I'm not sure, for example, why the idea of Daleks and Cybermen in the same episode is considered crap.  They're both cool baddies - why not combine them?  Fair enough if someone thinks the execution of such a concept is poor.

Anyway - it's like the new Star Wars trilogy - nobody over the age of about 20 has an opinion that really counts.  There's a reason that whilst I religeously watched Monkey, Doctor Who and Star Trek as a kid, and would gleefully murder anyone that got in my way, my Dad would do the same with the news.

To be fair, people do usually specify why they don't like it - lazy sci-fi, sloppy characterisation, deus ex machina resolutions, plot holes, overacting, RTD's sledgehammer-subtle propaganda (I love gays, I love Cardiff, Please watch Torchwood), crowbarred-in emotional bits, a tendency to concentrate on character at the expense of plot, empty technobabble, dumbing down for the CBBC crowd, the new shorter episode format, few decent new villians/races, relcutance to commit to anything (the Daleks are TOTALLY dead - but here are some more. And some more. And some more. There is absolutely NO WAY back EVER from the cyberman world - but here's a way back) - these seem to be the main recurring quibbles.

I'd agree with about two thirds of 'em, (and RTD is really the only main offender) but Grud help me, I'm still largely loving this new series.

I'd agree with about two thirds of 'em, (and RTD is really the only main offender) but Grud help me, I'm still largely loving this new series.

Hear, hear - I have been enjoying the new series (with the odd exception) even though I haven't really warmed to Tennant very much and there's still the problems that first appeared last year (always on Earth, deux ex machina endings, over emphasis on the Magic Screwdriver, and so on).

I'm not convinced that the Daleks vs Cybermen is a good idea, but it should be interesting to see.

Although I will be annoyed if the entire plot hangs on someone having to sacrifice themselves pulling those giant Deux Ex Machina levers that Torchwood have in their base for no reason (as it's established that the Ghost wave thingy is run from the computers anyway...)

Apart from the fact that the giant levers were totally unnecessary, it's funny how devices like that can always be worked remotely when needed.

It's a bit like having a windmill that needs a petrol engine to turn the sails.

-------

Daleks vs. Cybermen is a great idea. Except that these Cybermen couldn't possibly harm those energy-shielded unkillable Daleks we saw in the first series. With any luck, these will be a bit more like the weedy, old-fashioned Daleks we were used to from the old Doctor Who. As long as it's properly explained why they're not the same as the unkillable ones we saw last year.

I'm guessing these Daleks survived the Gallifrey/Dalek war in their VoidShip - which would make them the old weedy kind?

- pj

Ah, but they have other skills...

- Steve

A Dalek would have played better than Beckham, Exterminate Ronaldo! Etc...

I suppose there's little danger of them treading on someone's knackers.

- Steve

"To be fair, though, a lot of the criticisms are exactly the same thing: just "it's crap" without any kind of explanation."

Let me count the ways...

ADE

Urgh, can't be bothered, my cathartic rant over, I will save my energy to watch last episode.

Hopefully it won't be a bunch of cut scenes of Daleks V Cybermen, not much story and about 20 minutes of crying.

:: Exterminate Ronaldo! Etc...

EXTERMINATE!

Ronaldo is vaporised. Dalek is shown a red card.

EXTERMINATE!

Referee is vaporised. Linesman's flag stays very obviously down.

"To be fair, though, a lot of the criticisms are exactly the same thing: just "it's crap" without any kind of explanation."

Ahem ... mine haven't been. The writing on large chunks of this series has been dreadful, with (to pick just one aspect that's annoyed me) massive over-reliance on Deus Ex Machina resolutions that make little or no sense.

The laziness and/or complacency that this demonstrates borders on contempt for the audience, and has squandered almost all of the massive goodwill I felt towards this series.

Cheers

Jim

[1] Shall we start with the first episode's "Let's mix half a dozen antidotes together in a bucket and miraculously come up with an cure for everything" and work our way forwards?

On second thoughts, I can't be bothered.

Season 2 should be dedicated to Paul W.S. Anderson, what with:

-- New Earth (viral zombies a la Resident Evil)
-- The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit (a black hole devil a la Event Horizon)
-- Army of Ghosts/Doomsday (popular villains kicking off/teaming-up a la AVP).

I must have missed something 'cos I've absolutely no idea why Jackie thought her ghost was her dead father. I presume it was summat to do with people wanting to have some meaningful connection to the ghosts. Or did it not require an explanation 'cos, hey, it's pitched at 8 year-old kids? (Wanker)

And I'm getting rather pissed off every time the Doctor feels the need to apologize for having to kill some innocent JUST IN CASE THE KIDS DON'T GET IT.

I'll reserve judgement until part 2 although it's already better than last season's finale.

>no idea why Jackie thought her ghost was her dead father

I think it was initially because it smelled like him... then the Doc quickly explained it was wishful thinking and she was remembering how he smelled (or something)..

And yes the 'I'm sooooo sorry' bits when he offs a civilian are getting a bit tedious.

Just to let everyone know that someone's put up the whole of Tomb of the Cybermen on youtube.

If you haven't seen it, do so now!

I like the 1966 mock up of the linesman in the kitkat advert. That gets me chuckling, man.

Its his hair and how it creates the idea that he has made a very definate decision by the way it flaps about a bit?

I haven't really found the need to watch this just yet and I will get the second dvd of this second series. It'll date well and maybe if RTD is not really seen to have a finger in the right pie, he may have something media consultants embrace as a recurring standing with Dr Who, which will create the same docile future sales of these collections. Which is in keeping with solid packaging continuety. The thing is in the sixties there were more Dr Who fans than football fans and less of any media groups involved with broadcasting, so any comment is purely speculative. Or shit.  

Eccleston was always too glitzy and I like Tennant's Patrick Troughton naivity following Big Chris's harsh reality wisdoms even if i agree, he is Malletesque. Patrick Troughton possibly caused the same sort of grievances in his performance in his day but I regard him as one of the creepiest Doctors there is. And the stoopidest. So, shit, maybe Tennants will turn that way in the long run.
Times are changing very quickly and Lil' Dave's gonna have to maybe adapt or die.

"And yes the 'I'm sooooo sorry' bits when he offs a civilian are getting a bit tedious."

I suspect he might be saying that same line to Rose on Saturday...

"if RTD is not really seen to have a finger in the right pie"

I'm saying nothing.

ADE

You know, if I disliked New Who as much as some people here seem to, I'd probably just stop watching it.

Life's too short to spend time immersing yourself in things you find dispeasurable.

Well, for me my hopes and dissapointments have just come to a head over the last few episodes.  Starting with Abzorbaloff which I quite enjoyed, but made me realise how much I disliked the Doctor and Rose, and the olympic one.

I did stop watching the original Doctor Who during the McCoy years, just as I stopped reading 2000AD during the nineties.  And I will stop watching this series when I see it's not going to change.  Which will probably be Christmas or early next series (as I think change is inevitable around this time, and I'm hoping for the better), but I am going to finish this one.

Like many people I suspect, the desire for it to be good, rather than how good it really is, is what has actually been keeping me going.  If this was Andromeda or some lame American show, it would probably have been ditched after a couple of episodes.  

Thanks for the advice though :p  I do agree with you, life is too short, if it wasn't Doctor Who and I wasn't so weak I'd go do something else.

Just watched it now and IT ROCKED!

SPOILER

The Cybermen hiding behind a sheet of plastic and sticking plastic brain snakes into people's ears! Cybermen versus Daleks! ZARJAZ! That's like M.A.C.H. 1 versus Wolfie Smith! It'll be UNIT versus Torchwood next and then I might have to cream on the sofa. The return of Mickey! There was a bit of emo somewhere in there but it got into high gear soon enough. AND THE CYBERMEN HAVE GOT IN THE HOUSE AND ARE AFTER THE KIDS! ALL OVER THE WORLD!! BANG AFTER BANG AFTER BANG! Next week a green ray that turns you into a skellington.

Also, the Eastenders stuff made me laugh a lot.

Good for you, Al!

I also agree with Gordon. If you don't like it, don't watch it. I have huge problems dashing around and making sure I don't miss it, so if I wasn't enjoying Doctor Who, I simply wouldn't make the effort.

My favourite thing about Who is none of the children I know, or the kids of colleagues, friends, etc, have given it a bad review.

They're all terrible excited: boys and girls.

Isn't that great?

- Trout

"You know, if I disliked New Who as much as some people here seem to, I'd probably just stop watching it."

True, and guilty as charged, though I wish he's just come up with something new and not taken something people already have an emotional investment in, and there had been less wall-to-wall hype, then it would be easier to ignore it, like, say, Bugs or something (I don't know if that was any good, I didn't watch it).

ADE

for all the Oz whoers(is that right?) out there it starts this Saturday ABC 7.30, so excited again this show was one of the highlights of last year and I liked every episode(some more than others but each one was a delight to watch and left me wanting more).  I know I cop some spoilers on these threads but never anything that has stopped me enjoying what is a great come back for one of my favorite shows as a kid.
Roll on Blakes 7 re-boot(we'll i can wish)

CU Radbacker

hooray - thanks for telling me, radbacker!

A B7 reboot will happen, don't worry. Everything you've ever enjoyed will be remade at some stage

yours, watching B7 season III on DVD

Watched it with my eldest neice and nephew this morning, it's become a Wednesday morning thing. We're starting on part Doctors the week after next.

Anyway Samantha, who's 12, doesn't want Rose to leave and Matthew just wants to see Daleks fighting Cybermen. Both enjoyed it and despite many guesses (Matthew "The Cyber...boss...in a wheelchair!" Samantha "Please god anyone but that Adam!") didn't guess what was in the sphere but goggled and are now desperate too see how it ended. The fact that I could also watch it, along with my mother makes it a real treat.

Seriously recommend watching it with kids. Steal one from outside Tesco if you have too.

I have a kid! And a wife who'd rather watch Ultraman.  I forsee shuriken-related trouble this saturday night

I'll second that DXB. I only ever watch it with Dan, and even though he is 15 he is enjoying it tremendously. He knows that it is bad in places, and also terribly cheesey, but he in just enjoying the entertainment of it all. As am I.

Bolt-01