2000 AD Online Forum

After a breif discussion in the chatroom (unusually not about giant, gay, robotic, space otters) we started wondering about whether or not a Manga style strip would work in 2000AD.  Well, do you guys think it would be any good?  Would a manga Dredd still invoke fear, or would it all be about wondering why the female judges's eyes were bigger than their feet?  Is there a character that would work well in Manga style, or would an existing Manga strip work in 2000AD, if so which one?  Over to you guys.  

Hmm...giving a manga look to exsisting chracters would be fun but it's never worked to well on western characters. Katsuhiro Otomo (Akira) did a Batan strip in Japan which failed and Ryuichi Ikegemi drew a short lived Spiderman series on the 70's.

The problem is design principle, you'd have the same trouble changing characters from alot of manga serials into a western style. You could do it but it'd feel unnattural. This leaves you with 2 choices.

1.Do a home grown strips by manga/anime fans in that style of art and writing (and non genuine fans doesn't help as they often cock it all up) and try that in tooth.

2. Put an exsisting series in the Meg. Some classics are kinda out the window though. Akira is 2000+ pages which'd be a night mare to serialise and something like Blade of the Immortal (superir to lone wolf and club to me) hasn't stopped being serialised yet meaning it'd be on going. Thats a problem, very few manga series work in chunks like western titles. It's on going all the time.

The best bet is Appleseed by Masamune Shirow. Not only would it fit in well to 2000AD style stories but each book is fairly self contained time line wise (each book set a few months ahead from the last one ) so you could do a few chapters from book 1, see what people think and if it's a goer do the other 3 books (note a new series is being serialised by Dark Horse from september/october) or try something else.

Thats it I guess. Theres plenty more great titles out there with great genre variations but those are just a few of my suggestions. The thing i'm doin for J-Mek has manga style art just out of interest.

Finnigan Sinister

I agree, I think either 'Appleseed' or 'Ghost In The Shell' manga, both by Masamune Shirow would be great in the Meg.

HiEx

Much as I love manga, I've got to vote no on this one.

IMO, if reprints are necessary, the following should be a good rule of thumb:

First in line should be existing 2000AD material. Not only is this possibly the cheapest option, but there are dozens of classic stories that have yet to be reprinted.

If 2000AD material is unavailable for whatever reason, then I'd suggest that the next in line should be reprints from other UK comics. From classics like Charley's War through strips from Deadline, Crisis & Revolver all the way to modern independent comics, there's a wealth of great Brit comics that the Meg could reprint.

If both of the above aren't an option, then go for European comics. Less heavily reprinted in the UK than manga & US titles, and there's plenty of opportunity for reprinting Euro strips from 2000AD creators (Pat Mills & Robbie Morrison spring to mind, but there's lots more)

Bottom of the list, IMO, should be US reprints. I love Hellboy & Preacher, but they're easily available in TPB form, as are most of the other strips I've seen suggested for reprint.

Defuinitely reprints over existing characters done in the manga style, as whenevr the yanks try to do it it just comes off as silly-see the cover of every other marvel comic at the moment.
 Aside from Lone Wolf And Cub and Akira I'm not much of a manga fan, but I think it'd have to be a reprint of a *classic* like Appleseed rather than an obscure title to get the ball rolling.


And big robots rather than big eyes.

mat

Dredd's been done in *so* many different styles over the years that the occasional manga art would work okay I reckon & it's not really that different from 'regular' comic art.

Look at the last 4 Dredd stories: Kev Walker, Colin MacNeil, Siku & Ian Gibson - each one a VERY different style and if manga should come next week no one'd probably even notice.  People even accepted McMahon's Picasso Dredd for Howler.

"Bottom of the list, IMO, should be US reprints."

Damn right! They should be reprinting 2000ad stuff, not the other way round.

Hellboy seems to be dragging on a bit, how much longer will we have to skip the last 20 pages of the Meg?

"Damn right! They should be reprinting 2000ad stuff, not the other way round.

Hellboy seems to be dragging on a bit, how much longer will we have to skip the last 20 pages of the Meg?"

I dunno, I'm really enjoying hellboy, and if they don't chuck in all the good 2000ad shit at once, doesn't it mean it'll last longer?

Are you not into hellboy because you've already read it, or just because you don't like the non-2000ad reprints?

mat

I'm starting to get really bored by hellboy.  How can anyone make nazi devilworshippers and demons dull?  Perhaps if there had been a nuclear explosion in it somewhere (think about it).

I'd like to see mills/o'neills death race 2000 as well as other US comics by AD Alumni, like the Last American.  

But really, what in the holy name of the celestial ostrich is worth reprinting from Crisis and Revolver?  This maggoty, weevil infested barrel of festering fungus ridden ship's biscuits should be left well alone.  Don't even stand downwind of it.

Finni, seems to have the manga arguement pretty well sussed.

or just because you don't like the non-2000ad reprints?

For me; I don't like it because it SUCKS.

---But really, what in the holy name of the celestial ostrich is worth reprinting from Crisis and Revolver? This maggoty, weevil infested barrel of festering fungus ridden ship's biscuits should be left well alone. Don't even stand downwind of it---

Don't hold back there, PVS :-)

Lessee... worth reprinting from Crisis:

The New Statesmen
Troubled Souls + True Faith
The New Adventures of Hitler
Insiders
Bible John

There were other good strips, but IMO, these were some of the best. The New Statesmen should be fairly Meg-friendly, but I have my doubts about some of the others ;-)

...And from Revolver:

Rogan Gosh
Dare

Again, there were others, but I enjoyed these two the most. Rian Hughes art on Dare is fantastic, and it's far better suited to the character than his Robo-Hunter work ever was.

There was plenty of shite printed in both Crisis and Revolver, and the overtly political stance of Crisis is definitely off-putting, but there were some damn fine stories printed in both. Of course, the beauty of reprinting is that you can take the good without the bad (Third World War, please stand up...) Take Blast!, for example - we got reprints of the superb Lazarus Churchyard, without having to suffer bloody Bertha... :-)

Rian Hughes art on Dare is fantastic, and it's far better suited to the character than his Robo-Hunter work ever was

I'm sorry (No I'm not) but Rian Hughes deserves a fate worse than death for his Crimes Against Robo-Hunting.  There is no excuse.  There is no parole.  Nothing can save him.

Anyone any ideas for possible fates worse than death for this ****er..?

All cack, trust me.

Actually, I really want to read the new statesmen again, being a born again John Smith fan and I've always liked Baikie's stuff.

Dan Dare would have been okay if it was just Dan Dare vs Thatcher, but Grant Morrison had to have the Mekon buggering Dan Dare didn't he?  The one handed comics wizard (i.e. prick).  I agree on the dan dare artwork, ryan hughs did a truly gorgeous job on it, really caught the spirit.  

Burn the rest, do not inhale the smoke.  Don't spare the jimi hendrix biography.

The Mekon *actually* buggered Dan Dare??
I take it that it was rape, or was Dan consorting with the enemy?

I thought this was just a sick rumour, I didn't realise it had seen print!

O-well-live-n-learn.

---The Mekon *actually* buggered Dan Dare??
I take it that it was rape, or was Dan consorting with the enemy?

I thought this was just a sick rumour, I didn't realise it had seen print!---

Rape, and strictly speaking, it didn't see print. It was implied in the strip, but never actually depicted. Poor Dan also met the same fate at the hands of a randy copper shortly after his encounter with the Mekon.

It's the one part of the strip that really divides people. If you can read with an open mind, you'll find that the strip itself is a superb reinvention of Dan Dare - IMO, it's up alongside Zenith as one of the best things Grant Morrison wrote for Brit comics.

Anyway, ignore grumpy PVS (;-)) & check out a few issues of both mags - you should be able to find them pretty cheaply, and you can always flog them again if you're really not impressed.

I did get the first few issues of Crisis when it was first published, but stopped after 3 or 4.  I think it was too political for my young brain at the time (or perhaps it *was* just crap).  I don't remember what I did with them but I definitly don't have them anymore.  There's plenty of other stuff higher up on the wish list at the moment anyway.

PVs just reminded me of Mills/O'Neills 'Death Race 2020(?)'. Brilliantly funny strip - lasted maybe 5 or 6 issues ??
I hope to christ I didnt throw them out years ago during one of my irregular comic purges. Will have to check the archives in the dank cellars here at Marbles Mansion tnt.
Anyway that w/be an excellent reprint in the Meg.
As for manga, I've never really tried it on a consistent basis and to be introduced to it in bite sized chunks via the Meg w/be cool.
The current 'Lone Wolf 2100' mini series is a US style manga series that is excellent and another potential reprint.
Personally (sorry I know I've said this before) I think Rebellion could be in a good position to launch a UK reprint anthology title to capitalise on the captive 2k market. Call it 'Beyond 2000 Monthly' or somesuch. Reprint best of Manga, European, US and old British strips that Dredd fans would like. (Sort of like a UK 'Metal Hurlant').And obviously as a compliment to and not instead of all new 2k stuff.
Anyway I suggested this before and we all agreed it was a dumb idea so I won't go on....

I thought we all agreed that it would be a superb idea but that Rebellion wouldn't do it?

If you can get the rights to Hellboy, why not other stuff?  I'm sure a Megazine style/size/price monthly anthology filled with non-2k strips would be cost-efficient.

The first 14-20 issues of Crisis were a bad place to start. From around #30 onward, the content improved greatly, both in quality & variety, and by the time you reached issues #40-50, it was at its best.

I wouldn't recommend the early issues of Crisis to anyone but a completist - or a fan of Pat Mills' really political work. Third World War takes up around half of each issue, and while the art is (mostly) fantastic, the story is... hard-going, to say the least ;-)

If you're a fan of Garth Ennis, then I'd definitely recommend the later issues, as some of his earliest published work features (Troubled Souls being a particularly good one) regularly. Paul Grist fans might also want to check it out for Insiders - lovely art, and a surprisingly good script from Mark Millar.

---If you can get the rights to Hellboy, why not other stuff? I'm sure a Megazine style/size/price monthly anthology filled with non-2k strips would be cost-efficient---

Maybe because the Hellboy strip is around 8 years old? Most of the other stuff suggested was far more recent (LOEG springs to mind) and is still making money for the publishers. Securing reprint rights for the more high-profile stuff would probably be quite a bit more expensive than picking up Laz Churchyard & Hellboy.

Yeh I agree Oddboy, I mean reprints must be cheaper than original material or why did the Meg go in for them a while ago with Preaceher et al when it was in financial trouble ?
If Rebellion did something like this and made some money at it, then they would have more to invest in original 2k stuff, which would be even better.

---If Rebellion did something like this and made some money at it, then they would have more to invest in original 2k stuff, which would be even better---

...But that assumes that people will keep on buying the Meg if it fills up with reprint. I know that I stopped buying the Megazine when it was down to one new Dredd story, with the rest of the mag being filled with Preacher reprints.

NO NO NO NO NO!
We're talking about making the Megazine 100% original material and making a *seperate* reprint mag ("The Best Of Beyond 2000AD" or something) that would be of similar size/price to the Meg.
Money made off the Best Of reprints would/could be used to pay for more *original* Megazine stories.

Gah! My apologies - I thought we were talking about adding more reprint to the Megazine.

Anyway, I'd go for that in principle, but I suspect that it may be more expensive & more complicated securing reprint rights than we think.

Over to the editorial droids, methinks...

Just out of interest, there actually *was* a Dredd manga comic in Japan around the time the film came out, but by all accounts it was rubbish, and was never translated into English.

Never seen a copy personally tho.

While we're on the subject, I noticed in one of the Viz manga reprints (think it was Goku: Midnight Eye), that in one of the stories there are security guards with very familiar-looking shoulderpads and belt-buckles. Dunno where the artist picked up the Dredd influence from though.

I would support the idea of reprints with a 2K link, like The Last American.
But let's not limit it to US stuff.

I liked New Statesmen and have the GNs. I also thought bits and pieces of Revolver were fun, especially Dare (although I never knew how it ended. Rape? Ugh.)

Can I throw some other suggestions into the mix?

How about Deadline stuff like Brett Ewins on Johnny Nemo, or even some of Warrior/A1 etc strips, like the Bojeffries Saga?

"The car alarms are we
"Hark to our rap-so-dee!"

Class.

- Trout

Fuck being grumpy blackblood.  I read it with an open mind you ****, Grant Morrison obviously disliked dan dare and what he was at a fairly deep level.  This was obvious from the story even before Morrison raped him.  

I bought the comic largely on the grounds of him and ryan hughes at the time, as I wasn't a dan dare fan in any huge way (except the seventies version).  So it's not that I'm precious about the character.

He did the same with britney spears in zenith, and you can give me as much 'dark humour' or 'ironic statement' comments as you like, I've heard it all before.

I've read a few Morrison comics where he perpetrates violence against characters or characters who represent ideals he doesn't believe in.  I find it pretty sickening.

It's even worse when you hear him go on about the connection between what he writes and his perception of reality in relation to his strips.

---Fuck being grumpy blackblood. I read it with an open mind you ****, Grant Morrison obviously disliked dan dare and what he was at a fairly deep level. This was obvious from the story even before Morrison raped him---

Uhh... charming.

Sorry if you took the "grumpy" jibe the wrong way - it was meant as a friendly tweak - and the comment about reading with an open mind was meant for potential readers, not as a dig at you.

Anyway, to briefly answer:

I agree with your feelings on the Zenith special one-off. I found it unpleasant and there was a feeling of contempt that seemed to stretch to include the magazine itself. IMO, it should never have seen print, but INTE (I'm Not The Editor - good shorthand for crap editorial decisions ;-))

As for Dare... I didn't think he was tearing into the ideals Dare stood for, or Dare himself. Dare came off as naive, with a misplaced faith in his country and the system he was a part of, but a decent man nonetheless.

>PVs just reminded me of Mills/O'Neills 'Death Race 2020(?)'. Brilliantly funny strip - lasted maybe 5 or 6 issues ??

can't remember the exact number as I can't dig th ebox out without waking the wife up, there's at least 8 issues.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

P.S. apologies for not being able to find a Kev O'Neill cover to use with this message.

Link: Class Of '79 Yahoo Group

I'm really interested in death race 2000 for a few reasons, 1. Pat and Kevin, 2. Death race 2000 3. It seems to me the sort of thing that would slip into the meg quite nicely.

I can't imagine that would have been read by too many readers either.  I'm opposed to Marshal Law appearing (even though I am a fan) because it's already widely available.  But I'm sure there are lots of other gems out there readers would love.  How about reprinting the colour version of Metalzoic?  The GN is putting it mildly, sumptious.

Anyone else think of any AD Alumni forgotten classics?

I believe Cyberosia Publishing in the US presently has reprint rights for Johnny Nemo. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing some more stuff from Deadline reappearing in 2000AD/The Meg; Andi Watson, Nick Abadzis, Jonathan Edwards and several other fairly successful artists got a start there...

...although only a few bits are full-on SF, which might prove problematic.

*J*