I hate to have a strong opinion of something before actually reading it but...I mean...this premise was slightly suspect even in one of the Halloween films! (well, actually I quite liked it). And since when was the term "occult detective" acceptible?
Ironically, you would have thought the idea of bringing a grown-up book author would be to bring a touch of credibility and realism into the strip. Who's next, Ben Elton?
"Occult detective John Constantine has seen his share of strange things in his career, but nothing could prepare him for the horrors of...reality television. "Haunted Mansion" is currently the hottest show on tv, but when the macabre house actually starts attacking the contestants, Constantine is hired to be the ultimate mole. Locked inside with a cast of wannabe-celebrities, his every move being monitored by a deadly figure from his past, Constantine must figure out who (or what) is pulling the strings before he gets cancelled—permanently.
DARK ENTRIES is a classic locked-room mystery starring HELLBLAZER's John Constantine from Ian Rankin, the #1 international best-selling crime writer best known for his "Inspector Rebus" novels. Rankin has won numerous awards, including the Edgar Award in 2004 and is joined in this graphic novel by Italian artist Werther Dell'Edera, the illustrator of a number of American comics – mostly notably Vertigo's LOVELESS."
(http://www.dccomics.com/media/product/1/1/11952_180x270.jpg)
http://www.dccomics.com/vertigo/graphic_novels/?gn=11952
It doesn't look good when the author's name is absolutely enormous compared to the actual book's title.
I know what you mean - it may be awesome and it's pointless to pre-judge....but I think I'll be giving this a wide berth.
I imagine it will be a brilliant and exciting new departure for Rankin fans, but an annoying disappointment to Hellblazer fans.
Reading Rich Johnston's review over on Bleeding Cool the main problem seems to be a shortfall between what it is being advertised as what it is:
www.bleedingcool.com/2009/08/22/review-dark-entries-1-by-ian-rankin-and-from-vertigo-crime/
I've been following developments and it was originally planned to be part of Hellblazer and I assume Vertigo at some point thought it'd be better to rework it and use it as part of the launch of their Vertigo Crime line. However, I've always assumed it'd be a Hellblazer story and from what I've read it seems to be a good, classic John Constantine tale, so personally I'll be giving it a spin at some point, without any preconceptions.
Quote from: Adrian Bamforth on 29 August, 2009, 09:38:06 PMAnd since when was the term "occult detective" acceptible?
I'm not sure if I'm being too literal here but the answer is: Since the late 19th century:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occult_detective_fiction
I'd assume that Alan Moore was aware of these stories when he created John Constantine and he has gone on to include Carnacki in his
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (Warren Ellis also draws on Carnacki in
Gravel).
Quote from: Emperor on 29 August, 2009, 10:53:49 PMAlan Moore was aware of these stories when he created John Constantine
I had completely forgotten that he invented Constantine. He's one of my favourite comic characters ever, especially as he appears in the Swamp Thing books, but also in his own right, especially the the Jamie Delano stories.
Isn't one goddawful movie enough to convince people to just leave it as it is?
A blockbuster adaptation was always going to be... problematic. I like the way it has been dealt with - as a peculiar alternate version of the character.
Personally what I'd like to see is the BBC getting the option for a TV series (possibly in a co-production with one of the quality US TV stations), you could do a grim and grimy, properly British interpretation drawing on the great stories that Delano wrote. Given the way he has aged in real time you can give the early stories a proper period setting which would work very nicely.
Quote from: garageman on 29 August, 2009, 09:57:29 PM
It doesn't look good when the author's name is absolutely enormous compared to the actual book's title.
Like this:
(http://www.2000adonline.com/books/assets/covers/alan_moore_future_shocks.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_jNFMBZMTBvA/SPTclw_hksI/AAAAAAAAAR4/81OvfrVAF4M/s400/DCU+Alan+Moore.jpg)
Sorry, but that's a load of fucking bollocks right there.
Books, for the most part, are sold on their author, it's like complaining that it says Stephen King or Arthur C Clarke in too big lettering.
I cannot believe that people are complaining that, I dunno, there's some kind of marketing that might just sell a book to a non-comic buying public.
Sorry, but this whole 'I'm not prejudging it, but it looks shit' thing is stupid, unimaginative, moronic in the extreme and speaks of a lack of imagination.
I'll be quite happy to take it on it's own merits.
Which are, to even the casual observer (that cover lettering thing has it's uses), pretty impressive: Constantine, check. Rankin, check.
Looks pretty GOOD from where I'm standing.
Rankin's name was ALWAYS going to be huge, because his long-term fans, many of whom might never have ventured into the "graphic novel" section of the bookshop, will want to find it.
If enough of them do find it and buy it they might start a trend (or said newcomers might decide their prejudices are outdated and stick around in the funny books section). We might be lucky and have a few other quality "proper" writers come and play in the comics sandbox. While it's true that a lot of that sort of thing COULD suck, I'd still be prepared to keep an open mind.
Quote from: Emperor on 29 August, 2009, 10:53:49 PM
I'm not sure if I'm being too literal here but the answer is: Since the late 19th century:
I didn't express myself well enough there: I mean when did John Constantine become an "occult detective"? It reminds me of the blurb for Crocodile Dundee III which read: "Mick Dundee solves crimes in his own inimitable way"...as if we wouldn't notice!
Against my expectations, Constantine is one of my favourite films, despite the changes they made. For me they just got John's role and attitude right, even if some of the specifics were different. However, I wouldn't trust any TV adaptation - I think they would make him something like an occult detective for the casual audience, and it's just not the way to get the best out of a creatives/directors to tie them into an established continuity from the start. Better that people come up with somethng new.
I don't see the problem really. An "occult detective" is sort of what he is, his look and persona are built from guys like Marlowe and Spade and the writer of this normally produces detective stories.
As Roy Walker would have it: "Say what you see."
"Occult Detective" DOES rather describe John Constantine.
It's not his JOB (more of a habit, addiction or pastime) but then being a non-occult detective wasn't Miss Marple's either, and nobody objects to the tag "detective" being applied to her.
To drag in Hellblazer fans I think it needs said logo on the cover. I am sure there are thousands of fans that will be blissfully unaware of this, unless it is documented in the comic that is, then my statement is total bollox.
V
Quote from: His Lordship rac on 30 August, 2009, 09:50:31 AM
Sorry, but that's a load of fucking bollocks right there.
Books, for the most part, are sold on their author, it's like complaining that it says Stephen King or Arthur C Clarke in too big lettering.
I cannot believe that people are complaining that, I dunno, there's some kind of marketing that might just sell a book to a non-comic buying public.
Sorry, but this whole 'I'm not prejudging it, but it looks shit' thing is stupid, unimaginative, moronic in the extreme and speaks of a lack of imagination.
I think it's a different case when it's a long running comic like Hellblazer/Constantine, that has it's own separate identity for some time now. To the average comic audience Rankin doesn't have a big name, unlike Moore, whereas the Constantine brand is well known and the main problem is Hellblazer or John Constantine is nowhere to be seen on that poster/cover:
(http://www.dccomics.com/media/product/1/1/11952_400x600.jpg)
Most people especially the International audience have never heard of "Future Shocks" but at least it was on the cover.
My first trawl of books from the local library included several Hellblazer trade paperbacks (or are they John Constantine trade paperbacks now, as a result of post-Keanu rebranding?). One I picked up was vol. 2: The Devil You Know. I remembered enjoying them as individual issues first time around, but 20 years later I'm pleasantly surprised at just how damn good they are and how well they would stand up to, even surpass, a good deal of the Mature Readers product on the market now.
Can anyone think of examples of writers in other media taking on comics?
The only that immediately springs to mind is Michael Moorcock (yes, I know his connections to comics go way back, but bear with me) writing Tom Strong.
Reading it, I could see all sorts of good ideas but the format didn't work for the writing. The pace was all wrong and there was too much information coming through too quickly. In short, he wasn't writing a comic - it was a short story that had been converted into one.
It was always going to be tough to follow Alan Moore, but others did it well enough, notably Hogan.
Anyway, I'm not a Rankin fan, particularly, but I may have a look at this Hellblazer book. I get the monthly comic and quite enjoy it, although I haven't enthused about it lately. Must do a re-read.
- Trout
J.Michael Straczynski he of Babylon 5 fame wrote for DC -Teen titans,Rising Stars (was that Image?) and several Marvel titles I believe. Indeed Red 5 comics are now only interested in writers with a TV/film background. I think pretty much the same is beginning to happen at the big two and Dark Horse whatever they may say on their web sites.
Josh Whedon creator of Buffy and Serenity also wrote comic books of both those series and stuff for Marvel.
"Pure" comic book writers seem to be less in demand.
Greg Rucka, crime novelist, on Batman.
Quote from: Adrian Bamforth on 30 August, 2009, 11:15:00 AM
Quote from: Emperor on 29 August, 2009, 10:53:49 PM
I'm not sure if I'm being too literal here but the answer is: Since the late 19th century:
I didn't express myself well enough there: I mean when did John Constantine become an "occult detective"?
He always has been. He is more than that of course (he is very much a conman - using confidence tricks at least as much as he uses magic) but he has always been in that literary tradition.
Quote from: King Trout on 30 August, 2009, 01:33:13 PM
Can anyone think of examples of writers in other media taking on comics?
There have been quite a few recently, mostly through D.C.
You have the John Cleese scripted Superman Elseworld that got buggered up, allegedgly, by the artist. I'd mention him but he's been discussed at length elsewhere...
Popular yankee novelist Jodi Picoult was a decent choice for writer on Wonder Woman. Nick liked her story, at any rate. She at least made the trains run on time, unlike her predecessor Allen Heinburg.
He's a telly writer with a list of credits liek Sex and the City, Greys Anatomy and general chick friendly telly. He was so late completing the relaunch story for Wonder Woman they had to skip the conclusion, carry on with the next story, and publish the last part as an annual months later. Ooops.
Kevin Smith is an obvious one. Spiderman, Batman, Green Arrow, the list goes on. He's been prone to delays, as has Lost co-creator Damon Lindelof with the muy, muy delayed Ultimate Hulk vs Wolverine.
Gene Simmons, of Kiss fame, has written some comics but for real Rock to funny books success you'd have to mention My Chemical Romance's Gerard Way, who created the Umbrelle Acadamy, which has had various mini-series so far. They're astonishingly good.
Micheal J. Stracvynski, or however that is spelled, has written plenty of comics since completing Babylon 5. They tend to be solid, dense, slightly old fashioned reads rather than anything spectacularly astonishing but that doesn't mean they're not worth checking out.
Brad Meltzer was a best selling novelist before he started writing big continuity affecting stories for D.C. He's now one of their big guns but, you know, I'm not really sure why.
Bringing it back full circle...Patton Oswald, stand up comic and King of Queens star, wrote an eccentric JLA special that showed the team from the perspective of an everyman watcher. It was funny, clever and he earned extra points for claiming, in publicity interviews, to have been inspired by John Smiths Constantine does the laundry issue of Hellblazer.
And there's the Shaun of the Dead tie in from 2k, years ago. It surprises me that Simon Pegg hasn't been offered, or if he's been offered, not taken more comic scripting work.
Oh, and whilst I was checking the issues of Wonder Woman that Picoult wrote I found this article...
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/article3209943.ece
To get back on track -it's a pretty good tale. I bought Hellblazer for years and have a few of the more recent trades, and this fits in quite well with them. I actually haven't read any other Rankin but he seems to have made a decent fist of Constantine. The only thing thats lets the book down is some of the art - I don't know the artists work from elsewhere but I do feel it's a bit too cartoony at times and in some frames it's difficult to work out what he's depicting - which is annoying.
Overall - worth picking up and reading. Is it worth the £15 asking price? Maybe not. Borrow a friends or get it from the library. Try buying it from Amazon or somewhere cheaper if you must own a copy, or wait for a softback version
Quote from: DavidXBrunt on 30 August, 2009, 04:00:15 PMYou have the John Cleese scripted Superman Elseworld that got buggered up, allegedgly, by the artist. I'd mention him but he's been discussed at length elsewhere...
I've previously mentioned that this (Superman: Truer Brit) is truly pants, but I hadn't heard this - I had no problems with the art, just the inappropriately humorous' script!
Guy Ritchie (The mockney formerly known as Mr Madonna) co-wrote a pretty poor revenge thriller called the Gamekeeper with Andy Diggle. Mr Diggle made a decent fist of a rather thin idea, but it still came across as a GN version of a straight-to-video movie.
Quote from: Daveycandlish on 30 August, 2009, 04:24:17 PM
To get back on track -it's a pretty good tale. I bought Hellblazer for years and have a few of the more recent trades, and this fits in quite well with them. I actually haven't read any other Rankin but he seems to have made a decent fist of Constantine. The only thing thats lets the book down is some of the art - I don't know the artists work from elsewhere but I do feel it's a bit too cartoony at times and in some frames it's difficult to work out what he's depicting - which is annoying.
Overall - worth picking up and reading. Is it worth the £15 asking price? Maybe not. Borrow a friends or get it from the library. Try buying it from Amazon or somewhere cheaper if you must own a copy, or wait for a softback version
I got the wrong end of the stick - I thought this was a Constantine NOVEL.
Quote from: DavidXBrunt on 30 August, 2009, 04:00:15 PM
Quote from: King Trout on 30 August, 2009, 01:33:13 PM
Can anyone think of examples of writers in other media taking on comics?
There have been quite a few recently, mostly through D.C.
Indeed - one of the big current trends in comics is getting screenwriters in to work on their titles (at Marvel and DC). So many I'd struggle to come up with a comprehensive list but it includes writers from Lost, Fringe, Smallville, etc.
This has gone on for a while as Michael Moorcock had a lot of comics out back in the day and it runs all the way up to China Mieville having a story in the Hellblaser Xmas special (he actually has a comic story in in his small story anthology, illustrated by Liam Sharpe, who introduced him to DC).
Quote from: Emperor on 30 August, 2009, 04:34:12 PM
This has gone on for a while as Michael Moorcock had a lot of comics out back in the day and it runs all the way up to China Mieville having a story in the Hellblaser Xmas special (he actually has a comic story in in his small story anthology, illustrated by Liam Sharpe, who introduced him to DC).
God forbid anyone being talented at more than one thing, the jammy bastards.
Both Lydia Lunch & Nick Cave* have also written comics.
*yeah, Stevie knows that Mr Cave hasn't recorded a decent album in nigh 20 years, but that doesn't invalidate the argument
Quote from: steven lenfant terrible on 31 August, 2009, 08:10:03 AM
*yeah, Stevie knows that Mr Cave hasn't recorded a decent album in nigh 20 years, but that doesn't invalidate the argument
Noooooooooooooooooooooo! I quite liked all the Grinderman stuff, plus bits of various recent albums.
- Trout
Quote from: King Trout on 31 August, 2009, 08:30:56 AM
Quote from: steven lenfant terrible on 31 August, 2009, 08:10:03 AM
*yeah, Stevie knows that Mr Cave hasn't recorded a decent album in nigh 20 years, but that doesn't invalidate the argument
Noooooooooooooooooooooo! I quite liked all the Grinderman stuff, plus bits of various recent albums.
- Trout
How long ago were Boatman's Call and Murder Ballads? I've been deeply dissappointed by everything he's done since. I used to be a major admirer of Mr Cave- but recent efforts and interviews have revealed that he's actually a bit of a twat.
Steev
Quote from: King Trout on 31 August, 2009, 08:30:56 AM
Quote from: steven lenfant terrible on 31 August, 2009, 08:10:03 AM
*yeah, Stevie knows that Mr Cave hasn't recorded a decent album in nigh 20 years, but that doesn't invalidate the argument
Noooooooooooooooooooooo! I quite liked all the Grinderman stuff, plus bits of various recent albums.
- Trout
The Abbatoir Blues half of that double set is brilliant and every other album has a clutch of great songs on it.
Regarding other writers trying their hand at comics, DC's short-lived Helix imprint had another Michael Moorcock title and Vermillion by sci-fi/horror writer Lucius Shepard. It was far too wordy, as if Shepard didn't really believe the pictures could fill in enough of the story, but zombie fans would still be well advised to pick up a copy of his novel Green Eyes.
And I've just read that Scott Ian (of Anthrax and, thus, "I Am The Law" fame) is writing a Lobo series!
Am I the only one who is actively turned off by writers from other media suddenly trying their hand at comics? Like Alan Moore "writing songs", it's a red-headed stepchild at best.
I have little time for Ian Rankin- my elderly mum reads him and says he's "lovely", which tells me all I need to know really. Constantine has had his day- the most recent stuff I've read has been pure pastiche- and not even good pastiche at that. Everything you need to read was published by the time Ennis left.
What next? Dan Brown writing Swamp Thing?
Or maybe I'm just SPECTACULARLY grumpy today...
Steev
Quote from: steven lenfant terrible on 31 August, 2009, 08:10:03 AM
*yeah, Stevie knows that Mr Cave hasn't recorded a decent album in nigh 20 years
Poppycock! What about
No More Shall We Part? That was 2001. Highlights include:
Fifteen Feet of Pure White Snow
As I Sat Sadly By Her Side
God Is In The House
Oh My Lord
:o What more do you want??
Just giving it another listen now. I'll add The Sorrowful Wife to that list.
What comics did Nick Cave write?
Quote from: SpookyTheCat on 31 August, 2009, 11:49:05 AM
Am I the only one who is actively turned off by writers from other media suddenly trying their hand at comics?
I suppose it depends on how well they do. As long as they've got a great story to tell and make sure they right for the medium then I can't really see a problem. I am unsure why this is a big thing at the moment - it might be a general feeling that fans writing for fans gets insular and continuity heavy (when writing for existing properties). However, they often don't have a very solid grounding and want to return to some storyline they loved when they were reading it as kids (as opposed to following the developments up to the current day) and I know Whedon got some heat for that in his early comics.
What really concerns me are "celebrities" writing comics as they are such big fans but they'd not get near a comic on talent alone. Of course, those Virgin Comics were a celebrity would come up with an idea a writer would have to thrash into shape was a little wince-worthy. However, I'm really thinking of people like Jesse Snider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Blaze_Snider) or Nick Simmons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Simmons) whose fame seems to be via their Dad's and the reality TV shows they signed up for. The samples for the latter's
Incarnate are depressing (and embarrassing - you kind of want to pretend they didn't exist), partly because they are clearly the kind of early work a lot of people come up with (over-written and derivative art) that they never ever show to anyone ever.
I see Jonathan Ross is also writing a comic and that could be interesting, as he is no fly-by-night fan and he is creating his own story all by himself. I expect the missus will also get a film option sorted for it around the time it appears but you know he is doing it because he wants to write a comic.
Johnathan shouldn't have any trouble running it past all his talented showbiz/author/comic book/geekdom chums for a bit of help - isn't Mrs Johnathan a writer? He's also a long-term comic reader so he SHOULD have a reasonable grasp of what works and what doesn't. That might not actually be as dreadful as it ought to be.
Fair enough, each to their own on Nick Cave.
Quote from: SpookyTheCat on 31 August, 2009, 11:49:05 AM
Am I the only one who is actively turned off by writers from other media suddenly trying their hand at comics? /quote]
Stevie guesses that physicist, mathematician, astronomer, natural philospher, theologian, alchemist, Chancellor of the Exchequer & lyncanthrope trouncer extraordinaire Sir Isaac Newton must royally get your gander up then, huh?
I'm with Emperor on this point.
In fairness, Ian Rankin might not be the greatest comics writer of all time - although his affection for John Constantine is quite genuine - but Alan Moore and Grant Morrison aren't exactly the greatest prose writer's I've ever read, either.
Quote from: Sefton Disney on 01 September, 2009, 04:35:46 PM
Alan Moore and Grant Morrison aren't exactly the greatest prose writer's I've ever read, either.
Too true. Voice in the Fire was full of cracking ideas but read painfully. Maybe there's a reason he's a (very good for the most part) comics writer?
I read the Superman story apparently co-scripted by John Cleese: Dreadful rubbish - I sincerely hope Cleese's contribution comprised of merely coming up with the premise of having Superman be British. Not only does it taint John's otherwise good name but wastes an otherwise good premise. There are no good insights whatsoever on Britishness...and John Byrne's artwork is crap too.
True Brit: True S**t.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51SS76MW3YL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/Superman-True-Brit-Graphic-Novels/dp/1401200230/ref=sr_1_2/179-1959052-1898539?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251843486&sr=8-2 (http://www.amazon.com/Superman-True-Brit-Graphic-Novels/dp/1401200230/ref=sr_1_2/179-1959052-1898539?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251843486&sr=8-2)
Quote from: Adrian Bamforth on 01 September, 2009, 11:24:38 PMNot only does it taint John's otherwise good name . . .
"Otherwise"? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf0j3Oz6gGY)
Well, it's John Byrne. And I've long felt he was vastly over-rated (that's even BEFORE I found out he was a plum of the highest order).
Rankin will be cosying up with Suzanna and Charlie on BBC Breakfast, tomorrow (Friday, 4th September).
He walked passed us in Edinburgh on Monday morning. Didn't ask him about the book though.
As a fan of Constantine and Rankin, this was a bit of a no brainer. It's a pretty good read, with Rankin getting a good grip of the character, if nothing spectacular. The art by Werther Dell'Edera is not all that great, leaving you guessing what some characters actually look like, with others seeming to similar to tell apart. It's a nice experiment which is still very readable, but I was hoping for better.
Looking forward to this hugely.
Right, this arrived today and i needed cheering up so naturally John Constantine is the man for the job. </irony> My dear mum, being almost blind, was a fan of the Rebus audiobooks (and oddly the Strontium Dog audio plays) as she loved a bit of murder (in fiction). Having seen Ken Stott's fine turn i didn't feel the need to break my lifelong aversion to crime fiction. This, however, was excellent and i'll be checking out his "proper" books. So the experiment worked in ONE direction (on me at least). I wonder how many Rankin devotees will be checking out Constantine's books? The art was a little hard to follow but mostly good. Shame Leonardo Manco or Sean Phillips weren't asked, it'd be amazing then.
Read this yesterday.
Pretty standard Constantine story to be honest and the 'twist' that I read about was hardly that and it comes in the middle of the book.
Still irks me slightly that Constantine is a Liverpudlian and yet nearly every writer out there has him coming over all cockney with the ryhming slang or am I missing something.
The book is ok, no great shakes. I thought the art was poor and the storyline average especially for those that have been buying Helblazer for sometime.
Quote from: Mattofthespurs on 13 October, 2009, 01:08:13 PM
Still irks me slightly that Constantine is a Liverpudlian and yet nearly every writer out there has him coming over all cockney with the ryhming slang or am I missing something.
He was definitely a London wideboy when he appeared in Swamp Thing. Delano added the Liverpool thing when he expanded the character in the early issues of Hellblazer, and I'm sure it was mentioned more than once that you could only hear the Scouse in his accent if you listened carefully ...
Cheers!
Jim
The Gruniarn review seems to reflect the above comments:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/oct/10/dark-entries-ian-rankin-review (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/oct/10/dark-entries-ian-rankin-review)
Not a bad review. It reads better than the review would suggest, but all the negative criticisms are perfectly valid. The artist, however, is woeful.