Hi all,
I've never been into reading comics and only started reading non-fiction a few years ago. I was looking to mix up my reading with some fictional books and Judge Dredd has got me interested; he seems similar to Clint Eastwood, and that type of character appeals to me over the marvel superhero type stuff.
I've read some book reviews on amazon and a few users mentioned 'The Pit' and 'America' as the two books to best introduce someone to the world of Judge Dredd, so I've ordered those and look forward to reading them. What do you guys think of these two to start with?
Cheers,
Simon
Welcome aboard the Merry ship THRILLPOWER and enjoy your stay.
Hi mate,
Good choices, hope you enjoy them. Some of the impact of those storylines might be a little lost on you as a newcomer with no frame of reference, but there's more than enough good stuff in there to get you hooked, and if you don't like those two classics then it's fair to say that perhaps Dredd isn't for you!
This issue comes up quite a lot, here's a link to a previous thread on the subject you might want to check out....
http://2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,25181.0.html (http://2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,25181.0.html)
Be sure to come back and let us know what you thought, and don't hesitate to ask if you need any further suggestions.
If I were you I would read "The Pit" first which should give you an idea of what the judges are all about. America is great, but it's more about the citizens than the judges.
A fair point, though thinking about it America was one of the first Dredd's I read. I like how you get little glimpses of stuff from Dredd history that make you want to read and learn more.
Welcome! Those are damned fine choices.
- Trout
Welcome to the forum SK1. You'll definately be entertained and educated on all matters twothy here. "America", a good choice for a first go at Judge Dredd, even if I am a bit biased. ;)
An excellent bit of pimping there Colin ;)
If you can't pimp yourself then there's something wrong with this world.
Those two are fine choices for first Dredd and check out that other thread Radiator mentioned. It's very helpful and will give you an idea of where to go AFTER that.
The Apocalypse War got me into Dredd, so I'd say - start with the Apocalypse War!
Ah well, glad you've ssen the light in any case. Welcome aboard!
Thanks for the great replies guys – very helpful. I've just read through the thread that radiator suggested, which sent my head spinning; I was taking quotes just to keep track:
"America with art by Colin Macneil is often cited as being the best Dredd Story - however it gets a lot of it's resonance from what comes before and quite a lot could seem a let down after such a great story." - dankell
I say start with Total War, Brothers of the Blood, and America. They will give you the best indication of what Dredd's world is like.- Ignatzmonster
"I'd start with something self-contained like Mandroid, The Chief Judge's Man or The Pit - these will give you a taste of what Dredd is all about. From there you can move on to other, slightly more involved stories like America, Origins and the Judge Dredd Case Files series (which are big volumes collecting all of the early adventures..." - radiator
"perhaps start with is some of the standalone collections, avoiding those that are heavily tied into continuity... Mandroid is a good, solid Dredd tale that fits into that category. America is also worth a look (many considering it to be the very pinnacle of Dredd stories), since although it follows years of democratic struggle in Mega City One, there's enough backstory and exposition for a new reader to make sense of it. (By comparison, I would initially avoid The Pit—it's a really great story, but the sheer magnitude of Dredd taking a desk job will be lost on someone who's reading for the first time. Origins is also probably not worth going for until you've read a bunch of Dredd.)" - IndigoPrime
"Mandroid or Brothers of the Blood. Both feature some very good stories and are as likely as any others to hook you. I also agree you should not start with Case Files 1-3. Any of the later books will have several wonderful stories to give you a good sampling of what to expect, but book one features a fairly dated approach to comic storytelling, one you kind of need to be familiar with already to enjoy. Book two features two epic-length stories, also a little bit dated, but more importantly you won't get the wild variety of lots of classic Dredd. I'd discount book three with its lower page count and start with one of the others." - Grant Goggans
"Surprised to see so many people recommend Origins and Brothers, both of which would baffle the crap out of me if I was a newcomer." -IndigoPrime
"America... Mandroid... Total War... perhaps AFTER these three would be Brothers of The Blood... Origins..." -Mike Gloady
Ok, let me see if I've got this right:
If starting with America, the older ones may seem disappointing after that (is that the Case Files?).
The Pit storyline (Dredd taking a desk job) may be best saved for later (impact may be wasted on a newbie).
Origins and Brothers may be best saved for later (may confuse a newbie).
Mandroid and Total War (and possibly The Chief Judge's Man), all self-contained and – as far as I can see – have none of the aforementioned newbie disadvantages (or at least, none that have been mentioned... yet :)).
It seems to be a very opinionated matter, but I'm just wondering if it can be broken down into a logical order that most would say "Yeah, you can't go wrong with that".
p.s. Colin, I look forward to complimenting you on your work; all the sick cover art I've seen are very cool looking... I like the Dredd style.
Welcome.
filip
Hello sprog.
V
Welcome! You're spot on with the Clint vibe - early Dredd was very much "Dirty Harry in the future" and as Dredd gets older (He has aged in real time over the last 32 years) I still imagine Clint's voice when he says "twenty years, punks!" or similar.
Quote from: Colin MacNeil on 20 November, 2009, 08:26:42 PM
even if I am a bit biased.
Yeah, you're always recommending stuff by that Wagner guy, you biased bastard!
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Dandontdare on 20 November, 2009, 10:49:33 PM
Welcome! You're spot on with the Clint vibe - early Dredd was very much "Dirty Harry in the future" and as Dredd gets older (He has aged in real time over the last 32 years) I still imagine Clint's voice when he says "twenty years, punks!" or similar.
I read that the strip is in real-time and that in the current issues he is 70 years old, so I guess Clint could actually play him :P.
Ok, my new copy of The Pit has just come in; the cover is different to the one on amazon, but a reviewer did mention that. So what do you reckon, shall I start with this one or is there something more chronologically suitable (Mandroid, Total War, The Chief Judge's Man, and The Apocalypse War were all mentioned)?
The Pit is a perfect starting place.
Just bear in mind that Dredd is a man who's always shunned any kind of responsibility that's taken him off the streets. Most readers greeted the idea of him taking an "office job" with shock.
I would just get stuck in - The Pit is a very good place to start, and as I said earlier even if there is some minor stuff which goes over your head the main story is still a great read, and will give you a good introduction to Dredd, the judges, the city and the citizens. You'll pick it up as you go.
Welcome Helltrekker, grab a gun and some ammo and pick a window... ;D
Feel free to ask about JD and his world, this place is a warm and welcomimg one, (except jim)
Sorry SK1 that was mean for the other FNG, but hey your welcome too!
The Pit is quite a good intro to Dredd. As others have said, it's not perfect, but I don't think it really matters.
If you have a few bob to spare, Case Files 5 is a truly excellent collection of Dredd stories. It contains several short tales which really help flesh out the character and the city he lives in. It also ends with the epic Apocalypse War, one of the greatest Dredd stories ever.
Of course, all the Case Files are good, but I feel that 5 is perhaps the best for a new Dredd reader.
With regard to other Dredd graphic novels, I feel that The Art of Kenny Who and The Henry Flint Collection are the best for a new reader, because they have a mix of long and short stories, and don't require a lot of knowledge about characters or continuity.
Welcome.
I'd say get reading straight away. Tell us if you liked it and feel free to ask any questions. I'd also recommend, Mechanismo, once you have finished reading what you have, if you don't want to get into the Case Files straight away, that is.
Hey guys,
I have to say, every reply has been both informative and welcoming - you seem to have created a great community here and I'm glad a I signed up.
I'm about half way through the book, so I'll post back once I've finished it and let you know what I thought of it.
Cheers,
Simon
Good for you SK1. And remember, YOU'RE part of the community now too.
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 22 November, 2009, 06:20:55 PM
Good for you SK1. And remember, YOU'RE part of the community now too.
Thanks mate - just finished my first Judge Dredd graphic novel, so I guess I am :)
Ok, firstly I think I read it too fast to become fully absorbed. I tend to concentrate on the text and only glance at the artwork, so I should probably slow it down. Enjoyed it though, and I think I have a better idea of what I'd enjoy next, which is just getting to know the character doing his regular stuff as opposed to the big story lines with him in it. I think I'd enjoy those more after I 'm more familiar with Dredd and his world.
I was thinking the case files vol.4 should be good; the reviews on amazon for it reflect what you guys have said about the relative quality of the first 3, and that four is a collection of solid good stories. What do you reckon?
Colin, nice work mate; I particularly liked the ultra square-jawed drawing of Dredd with the reflection of Guthrie on his visor. I look forward to checking out your work on America. And if Carlos is on here,
major kudos for Demarco in Unjudicial Liaisons Part 1 ;)
Just ordered the Case Files Vol. 4 off Amazon (336 pages for under a tenner seems like pretty good value, considering the megazines are 5 quid) and am looking forward to reading it.
In the meantime, I've started to re-read The Pit following the technique in this article on "How to read comic books": http://www.ehow.com/how_2103558_read-comic-books.html
Good stuff. The Case Files are superb, but you should expect quite a tonal shift in terms of storytelling compared to The Pit. The early Dredd strips are very entertaining and are full of very original ideas and characters, but they also very much of their time, and originally intended for a younger audience than the more modern Dredd stuff. They're nowhere near as dated as the usual superhero stuff from the same era, mind.
Quote from: radiator on 24 November, 2009, 11:15:46 AM
originally intended for a younger audience than the more modern Dredd stuff.
Oh, I didn't realise that. As I've never read comics I have no point of reference, so I figure checking out these older strips plus heaving read a modern graphic novel should allow me to pinpoint (with the help of some advice, of course ;D) what I'd enjoy reading.
I'm hoping to find the case files enjoyable because I think going through them first would make the graphic novel storylines more entertaining to me. If not, I can just bounce around the graphic novels and appreciate them at face value.
Welcome sk1, you have a lot of excellent stories ahead of you.
Greetings Simon and congratulations, the world of 2000ad is a complete self-contained world which will provide you with more than enough thrills to keep you occupied for the rest of your life. You could easily not read any other comic for the rest of your days and still not have enough time to get on top of it all. For what it's worth, here's my humble guide to how to get up to speed. First you need to subscribe to the prog.At least then you're on board and getting the current stuff as it appears. Don't fret if stories don't make sense sometimes, all will become clear. Next, buy "thrill power overload", the ultimate guide to all things 2000ad and a wonderful history of the galaxies greatest comic, as well as a fantastic reference guide when you want to dip your toes in to new charachters and find out a bit of background to them and the stories place in the prog.(paperback version cheaper but the sexy hardback is pure joy).Next if your not already, join your local library. Virtually every collected edition of every 2000ad story from any library in your county is available at your fingertips. For free. There are 4 main charachters that have to be read. IN order. Dredd,Strontium Dog,Nicolai Dante,and Slaine. Work through the case files and you will soon be addicted. Good luck !
Thanks for the guide mate, but let me ask you this becuase I'm not sure how this works: if I start reading the latest stuff, will it not spoil the story-lines of the older stuff?
Another question: I've just had a look at the prog on the website, which features Necrophim, Sláine, Tharg's Future Shocks, Sinister Dexter, along with Dredd. Are each of these - plus the others that you mentioned - independent comic characters (i.e. unrelated to each other)?
Thanks again and good tip on the library; mine isn't great but I'll see what they've got.
While a good understanding of Dredd's world definitely heightens your enjoyment of the current Dredd stories, it is not vital and will not ruin them. Dredd is in the middle of a bit of an epic story at the moment so help may be needed getting you up to date, but I'm sure we will help you out there.
The majority of stories appearing in 2000ad are completely unrelated to each other and require no knowledge of other characters for you to enjoy them, but there are some exceptions. Some stories happen in the same world as Dredd himself, but do not necessarily feature him and the majority of Pat Mills stories have some connection to each other.
Quote from: Gavin_Leahy on 24 November, 2009, 04:56:50 PM
While a good understanding of Dredd's world definitely heightens your enjoyment of the current Dredd stories, it is not vital and will not ruin them.
So not knowing the history won't ruin the current stories, but will reading the current stories first ruin the plot-lines of the graphic novels/case file stories?
Regarding Dredd and the other 2000 AD comics, can you give me an idea of how much is alien sci-fi as opposed to just futuristic sci-fi? What attracted me to Dredd was the concept of the law enforcement judgement system, the dark setting, the mature theme, and the coolness of the main character, and the fact that it's (as far as I know) mostly based on humans (i.e. judges and criminals). Even in movies, alien type stuff never appealed to me much. I liked The Pit because it's based on humans, so I'm wondering how much of the 2000 AD strips are of that nature.
Quote from: sk1 on 24 November, 2009, 06:04:11 PM
So not knowing the history won't ruin the current stories, but will reading the current stories first ruin the plot-lines of the graphic novels/case file stories?
Not at all.
QuoteRegarding Dredd and the other 2000 AD comics, can you give me an idea of how much is alien sci-fi as opposed to just futuristic sci-fi? What attracted me to Dredd was the concept of the law enforcement judgement system, the dark setting, the mature theme, and the coolness of the main character, and the fact that it's (as far as I know) mostly based on humans (i.e. judges and criminals). Even in movies, alien type stuff never appealed to me much. I liked The Pit because it's based on humans, so I'm wondering how much of the 2000 AD strips are of that nature.
Many stories in 2000AD feature aliens. In fact, Case Files 4 is just bursting with aliens, so brace yourself! ;)
However, there is always a good balance in terms of the characters and themes that appear in each story. There have been stories that have crazy sci-fi settings, and lots of aliens (Shakara, Nemesis the Warlock), and stories that, for the most part at least, deal with more realistic characters and settings (Savage, Cradlegrave).
Personally, I like a little of both. One of the reasons why Judge Dredd has always featured in 2000AD is the versatility of the chaacter. He can appear in both serious and humorous stories, featuring satire or tragedy, action or drama.
Gavin, thanks for clearing that up. My locals don't have the 2000 AD comics, so I may take a one month subscription to check them out. Is this Dredd epic storyline in the prog or the megazine?
Jared, knowing me I'll probably like the non-alien stories more, but I'm still looking forward to finding out as this stuff is all new to me. I should get the Case Files V4 this week so I'll post up my impression of it compared to The Pit, and then probably bombard you with more questions ;D
There will be a Christmas special out in about three weeks, it'll be a jump on prog, so you won't be starting midway through any of the story, it's also bumper size. This is a great place for you to start.
The epic storyline is mainly in the prog, but the megazines stories are connected to it.
Regarding Aliens in Dredd, Casefiles 4 is about the high-water mark for that sort of thing. Dredd ventures off-world every now and again, but it seldom seems to work as well as it did back in those days, and certainly doesn't last as long. On the other hand, a procession of aliens do visit MC-1, frequently of the shape-changing/parasitic variety. The 'police procedural' Dredd is more common from Casefiles 8 on.
I'd be intrigued to see what you think about CF 4 - it's one of my favourites, and for me the start of the 'real' Judge Dredd character.
Quote from: sk1 on 24 November, 2009, 04:31:29 PM
Thanks for the guide mate, but let me ask you this becuase I'm not sure how this works: if I start reading the latest stuff, will it not spoil the story-lines of the older stuff?
Not really - it is more the journey than the destination. You
will appreciate the ideas and characters more.
So from that quick list given "IN order. Dredd,Strontium Dog,Nicolai Dante,and Slaine."
Strontium Dog is actually in flashback mode so there is no big problem there but you want to get one of the big fat collections asap as they have some cracking stories in.
Nikolai Dante is really one long story but you can pic up the basics pretty easily and it won't be an issue knowing the current storyline but when you'vve cuaght up you'll get a deeper understanding of the twists and turns in the road to get to this point and the motivations of the character.
Slaine is an interesting one as it did go through a period of large over-arching storylines that might have been difficult to pick up but it is currently a more back-to-basics Slaine (Ultimate Slaine) and you can dive right in.
It is well worth digging out the older collections for all of these are they are some of the finest examples of comics storytelling that you'll find anywhere. And not too many aliens in them either ;) Get a taste of them, see what tickles your fancy and I'm sure there will be a lot of people happy to recommend further reading.
Hey guys,
Thanks for the tips on the recommending reading; seems like there's enough material to last a couple of lifetimes ;D
My copy of the Case Files 04 just arrived, and goddamn is it big. I had a quick flick through it and all I could see was freakz; I had to slow it down a bit just to make sure Dredd was in it!
What I'll do is finish up with The Pit, then start on the Case Files and let you guys know my impressions. I'll also keep my eye out for the bumber prog and pick that up on it's own rather than getting the subscription as I wouldn't have time to read it all.
Btw, I've been re-reading The Pit, and I noticed that Dredd has something resembling an American flag on his belt buckle; what's that about?
Quote from: sk1 on 26 November, 2009, 12:24:22 PM
Btw, I've been re-reading The Pit, and I noticed that Dredd has something resembling an American flag on his belt buckle; what's that about?
Mega City 1 is in America
QuoteDredd has something resembling an American flag on his belt buckle; what's that about?
Well, to all intents and purposes, Dredd is American and Mega City One is located in a post-apocalyptic America, though it is no longer called 'America'.
The Geography is a bit vague, but it is kind of implied that there are no nations as we know them in Dredd's world, and the planet is divided into densely populated city-states like Mega City One, and radioactive wasteland like the Cursed Earth.
The flag emblem is probably a hangover due to Dredd's uniform being designed before his world had been properly defined - the very early tales are set in a future New York.
Quote from: radiator on 26 November, 2009, 01:11:37 PM
QuoteDredd has something resembling an American flag on his belt buckle; what's that about?
Well, to all intents and purposes, Dredd is American and Mega City One is located in a post-apocalyptic America, though it is no longer called 'America'.
The Geography is a bit vague, but it is kind of implied that there are no nations as we know them in Dredd's world, and the planet is divided into densely populated city-states like Mega City One, and radioactive wasteland like the Cursed Earth.
The flag emblem is probably a hangover due to Dredd's uniform being designed before his world had been properly defined - the very early tales are set in a future New York.
So does 'America' exist in the minds of the characters? Do they ever refer to it, or did the writers just transition from the 'future New York' setting to a vague one without worrying about the continuity?
QuoteSo does 'America' exist in the minds of the characters? Do they ever refer to it, or did the writers just transition from the 'future New York' setting to a vague one without worrying about the continuity?
I think a lot should become clear when you read the
America graphic novel, which explores the concept of democracy and liberty in Dredd's world. As for the future New York thing, it's because the character of Dredd and his world didn't arrive fully-formed, and it took a couple of years for the writers to define these things - another early inconsistency is that it is implied in the very first published episode of Judge Dredd that there are only a few dozen judges - whereas later it is clear that they number in the tens of thousands and fulfill the role of the governmeant and military as well as the police.
It kind of evolved organically and you have to take the early stuff with a pinch of salt. A lot of fans would consider the material covered in Case Files 3 or 4 as where Judge Dredd really became the character we know today.
There is a one off that implies the Brit Cit'ers at least still think of them as 'Americans' Mega City One, (and most of the other Mega Cities) are more like the Greek idea of a City State.
Quote from: radiator on 26 November, 2009, 01:44:37 PM
I think a lot should become clear when you read the America graphic novel, which explores the concept of democracy and liberty in Dredd's world.
Of course; I forgot there was a graphic novel actually titled 'America' :-[
From what I've heard that's the best story in the entire Dredd collection (despite him not being in it very much), so much so that it may lessen the enjoyment of the older stories. I'll probably want to check that one out only after I've got some Case Files under my belt first, as I'm a stickler for chronology when it comes to these things ;D
Welcome to the forum; as for the comics, there's a lot of good stuff to catch up on - have fun :D