(http://libsyn.com/images/geeksyndicate/2000adbanner15.jpg)
Direct link:
http://media.libsyn.com/media/geeksyndicate/ECBT2000ADep15.mp3
or you can get it through itunes by looking up Geek Syndicate.
Sorry for the delay - swine flu put me on my arse :(
Yay! I thought we were well overdue for another of these ...
Cheers!
Jim
PS - Expect obligatory factual nitpick very shortly after I finish listening ...
Thanks Richard. Just downloaded it onto the nano. That'll keep me grinning as I hoover. Honestly, it's like "How Clean Is Your House" round here....
Sorry to hear about the Pig Plague, it's a bastard. Hope you're better now....
This one could be a collectors item... due to illness its beer free!
Will make up for that in the next one.
Oh, and I think we say about suggestions for an old prog or arc to tackle in the next one, but the lovely people at 2000AD sent us a digital copy of the Anderson files, so will probably look at that and make lots of mature comments about her ass.
And thanks Mike. It was rough but over it now. Got me 6 days off work, cant complain.
Ah now I understand the disclaimer you put on the Geek Syndicate Forum about Necrophim!
Ok so it's obvious Flint isn't a fan. Each to their own, etc. I do get the feeling though that Tony Lee is deliberately trying to do something a bit different with a well known kind of setting (God/Devil/Heaven/Hell etc) - hence the mobiles, reference to video, clash of olde worlde dialogue up against modern slang etc. So some of it might jarr, but maybe he is doing it deliberately to make you ask, 'just what is it that hell would be like?'
Following that course, Lee Carter's art then depicts less of a fire and brimstone setting but more of a monotonous 'nothing' sort of shanti town world, set in perpetual semi-gloom. It kind of echoes some Stephen King work where the ultimate hell is worse than it might look on the surface; it sort of... gets worse once you're there. If that makes sense.
Anyhoo, well done guys, still fun to listen to and looking forward to the Anderson review! But if you slag off Arthur Ranson then there's just no hope for you. And you still need to do the Bisley interview :)
That entire last paragraph rhymed...
I may be mis-remembering this, chaps, but I think the "farm in the country" refers back to Book One, where Gene meets a human who -- it is strongly implied -- puts down Gene's injured friend Old Man Gary, and then tells Gene that Gary has "gone to a farm on the country" ...
Cheers!
Jim
Fantastic job lads and it's great to have you back. Looking forward to the next one already. It's great to hear you will be back to your old self next time Blue.
Just down loaded it now. Yay!
Good to have you back and once again a plesent way to pass an hour and half.
Jim's right, I distinctly remember the "farm in the country" cliche arriving in the Kingdom trade, in reference to Gary. It made me laugh at the time, but hadn't occured to me that Gene would take it literally (but of course he would, that's one of the core ideas of the series and one of the reasons I love it).
Can't wait to read the next volume either.
And I'm glad Flint's decided to give the early Dante trade(s) a go. I think I spy a conversion....
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 26 November, 2009, 05:45:46 PM
I may be mis-remembering this, chaps, but I think the "farm in the country" refers back to Book One, where Gene meets a human who -- it is strongly implied -- puts down Gene's injured friend Old Man Gary, and then tells Gene that Gary has "gone to a farm on the country" ...
Correct. Furthermore, IIRC, in Book 2 Gene asks the farmers in the country if this is where Old Man Gary came.
Quote from: The Cosh on 26 November, 2009, 08:32:56 PM
Correct. Furthermore, IIRC, in Book 2 Gene asks the farmers in the country if this is where Old Man Gary came.
Yes, he did, bless 'im. It's real quality writing from Abnett that -- just when you're tempted to start thinking of Gene as basically another of 2000AD's big, hard blokes -- he drops in these little things to remind you that, no, he's a
dog.
Cheers!
Jim
I love that way he takes things on trust too - just like a dog. A master told him Old man Gary's in a farm in the country so he just believes and he's loyal enough to his old friend to want to find him. Can't get more dog-like than loyal yet capable of ripping your face off.
So hang on...
If a farm in the country is Kingdom speak for death, does that mean the next arc will be the last? Hope not, but would be a cool as hell ending, especially if he head off to his death thinking it was something else.
Bit like the horse in Animal Farm. What was his name? Boxer or something?
And yeah, we were a bit harsh on Necrophim. Like I said, I love how it looks but the world confuses me. For anyone who has read it from the start was it all explained?
They keep telling me its Hell but I dont feel it.
Dumb on my part but if they said it was set in some fictional place I had no preconceptions of I would probably like it a lot more. As it is I keep thinking "How is that Hell?"
For the record though, its no Cradlegrave for me. I do get at least one "that was pretty cool" moment per installment
It's obvious you're more willing to give it a go than Flint who seems to pretty much loathe it.
I'm probably more in your camp than Flint's. There are great BITS to it - but, like Flint says, they tend to evapourate in the light of critical scrutiny. A pity, as I quite like a lot of Tony's work on the ideas front. This second book IS a lot better than the prequel, but it seems to suffer from cramming a lot of twisty-turny stuff into a short time. If it were given more time to breathe on that front and the dialogue were a little less clunky, I reckon it'd be more my thing.
Still, not every thrill worked it's magic from the beginning. Look at early Dredd for an example of something that grew with time.
Quote from: bluemeanie on 26 November, 2009, 10:25:55 PM
So hang on...
If a farm in the country is Kingdom speak for death, does that mean the next arc will be the last?
No, no ... not at all. Gene doesn't
know it means death -- being a big, literal dog, he
actually thinks there's a farm, and he's actually looking for it. It was just a lie that a 'master' told Gene to cover up the fact that he'd killed Gene's friend but Gene -- bless 'im -- absolutely takes it at face value.
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 26 November, 2009, 10:41:32 PM
No, no ... not at all. Gene doesn't know it means death -- being a big, literal dog, he actually thinks there's a farm, and he's actually looking for it. It was just a lie that a 'master' told Gene to cover up the fact that he'd killed Gene's friend but Gene -- bless 'im -- absolutely takes it at face value.
Cheers
Jim
I wasnt saying Gene knew it meant death. I was just wondering if its the writer letting us know he's heading towards his end even if Gene himself doesnt realise that.
Hell, he might even find the masters who tell him he's done well and deserves a rest and if he just steps into this room they'll take him to the farm... and blam! So ends the tale of the Gene dog.
Would be surprised though. They must know they are onto a winner with this strip so I cant see them ending it any time soon.
I think Abnett can keep going with it as long as he wants - the only issue I can see is that if Richard Elson gets poached by Marvel or DC would we want the series to continue with a different artist?
I would.
Although I'd want them to be their own person, with a personal vision and that'd mean different. An example of what I mean could be found in what happened to Nemesis after O'Neil. Talbot & Hicklenton were both very individual artists, fairly different to O'Neil. And Flint, with his obvious debts to O'Neil, is very much his own man (or was by the time he did any work on Nemesis).
If we didn't get an Elson clone I'd be happy for it to continue.
Na I don't think its Kingdom talk, it's like a cliche thing to say to kids if the dog has died. I don't think it means the death of Gene but the reminder, as other's have said, that Gene isn't a human he is a dog and he takes things literally.
Loved the episode as always - my suggestion would be rather than an old prog do a Meg review. I love the Meg, this issue has a class Al Ewing Dredd story and a great Tales from teh Black Museum by Arthur Wyatt and PJ Holden. Great stuff.
But however, Iz is wrong, Jonny Alpha is gorgeous, he could only possibly be beaten by Bigby Wolf in the Fables books, cos you know Bigby is still alive....erm, I possibly need to get out more!
Johnny AND Bigby? Got a thing for "dogs" eh? ;p Good work on the fill in podcasts, Stace.
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 27 November, 2009, 07:47:58 PM
Johnny AND Bigby? Got a thing for "dogs" eh? ;p Good work on the fill in podcasts, Stace.
hehe looks like it dunnit? Thanks Mike! :-) Glad the Flint man is back I missed him.
Quote from: stacey on 27 November, 2009, 10:48:51 PM
Glad the Flint man is back I missed him.
Speak for yourself, I preferred being surrounded by my beeeetches!!
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x203/Partypackage/25588.jpg)
I always do artwork while i listen to these discussions and they always help my work a lot .There was a noticable difference in the fact that no alcohol involved as well.
Thanks and keep doing more.
Quote from: Peter Wolf on 28 November, 2009, 12:10:05 AM
I always do artwork while i listen to these discussions and they always help my work a lot .There was a noticable difference in the fact that no alcohol involved as well.
Thanks and keep doing more.
Yeah, sucked didnt it?
I'll be good and wasted next time ;D
Quote from: radiator on 27 November, 2009, 01:04:02 PM
if Richard Elson gets poached by Marvel or DC...
Why hasn't this happened already? If I was a company putting out a space-type superhero book I'd have him in an exclusive contract before he could blink. He's just an incredible artist.
Don't give them ideas, TB.
Quote from: radiator on 27 November, 2009, 01:04:02 PM
I think Abnett can keep going with it as long as he wants - the only issue I can see is that if Richard Elson gets poached by Marvel or DC would we want the series to continue with a different artist?
Dont even think about.
Dont even think about it.
I wouldnt want the series to change artists but if its the difference between having Kingdom and not having Kingdom then i wouldnt mind but i cant think of a suitable artist who could take over.
Richard Elson is free to work for who he wants as long as he keeps doing Kingdom and why does someone have to be tied to an exclusive contract anyway ?
So if any Marvel or DC people are reading this then you keep your damned dirty hands off Richard Elson or you will be on the recieving end of my wrath.
You have been warned.
Is that Peter Andre pimped up? Bloody hell I hope not! ;D
Actually thought that the last two 'Necrophim' installments were pretty decent.
Blimey!
I agree, it's taking a turn for the better.
Quote from: flintlockjaw on 04 December, 2009, 01:49:31 PM
Actually thought that the last two 'Necrophim' installments were pretty decent.
Now all you need to do is read the backstory to Sinister Dexter so that you can stop talking bollocks about it! Saying that it's run out of steam is crazy - the one criticism most often levelled at it in recent years was that the build up and scene setting had been rather slow and seemingly endless. Now it's all finally coming together in a big pay-off, but you seem very hazy about who's who and what's happened to get us to where we are now. I can understand why this may diminish your enjoyment of this big finale, but your criticisms of Dan Abnett, one of the finest of Tharg's script droids, are way off the mark
In general, I'd like to hear a little more "
I don't like this script because...." rather than "
he is a bad writer because...."
Flint and Blue seem faintly incined toward catching up with Dante, Sin/Dex is the obvious next step.
Consistently the two best non-Dredd strips of recent years. Barely a ms-step in either of them, the only problem beng their intermittent appearances...
Quote from: Dandontdare on 04 December, 2009, 04:12:51 PM
Now all you need to do is read the backstory to Sinister Dexter so that you can stop talking bollocks about it!
Yeah, listening to this on the way to work this morning that was the main thing I took away from an otherwise highly enjoyable edition. It seems that Flint in particular leans towards a very specific style of storytelling, where everything you need to know is contained in each short arc, if not each episode. Thus a Sláine story of monumental stupidity gets a thumbs-up because Pat couldn't be arsed any more to build a coherent world for his character to lurch about in, while over in SinDex the evolution of a one-joke strip into a twisty-turny tension-filled complex thriller gets panned as having 'run its course'.
I do have a certain sympathy with this view, often staring blankly at a new Red Seas run and trying to work out where exactly we left off last time, and it's certainly a more accessible approach for new readers. However it becomes irritating when the reviewer's main beef could be addressed by actually reading the bloody thing. I don't agree with Flint's dislike of Necrophim either, but at least that is based on solid points about what's actually there on the page, rather than not having read or not remembering the past few hundred pages of the story.
For the record, I was an ardent hater of Sinister Dexter for many years, in fact if asked I would have said it was one of the main reasons I stopped reading the Prog round about the time it started appearing regularly. However, for the last 10 years or so it's grown in stature and it's grown on me, mainly because of Abnett's sheer wit and ability to make me care about characters that are still largely cyphers, while building a complex character-driven plot around them - the Finny Christmas episode a few years back, where he tries to plan a way out of prison for himself and the paralysed Dexter, is one of my favourite 2000AD strips.
Also, just to help out: in the episode where Kal's girlfriend explodes, the reason the boys escape serious injury is because she gives them a moment's warning and they leap out of the car, as seen in flashback the next episode, not because they're invulnerable. It's a bit King of the Rocketmen, but it's there.
Keep it up lads and thanks, it's always fun, even when it's angrying up the blood!
I gotta say Im not overly enjoying Sinister Dexter because it really does seem to hinge too much on "LOOK! Its that guy from 3 years ago!"
I dont know that guy from 3 years ago. And to be honest I dont think I should have to go hunting for back issues to "get" a current story. What I think this story needs at this stage is a totally new character with Sin & Dex. Someone they can turn to every now and then and say "Hell - its Fred! He used to run a hitman agency and we killed him two years ago" and give a bit of an in story recap for those of us who are a little lost with who everyone is. They keep dropping names with no clues as to why they are important for those of us not in the know.
The DUN DUN DUNNNNNs at the end of each prog are a bit DUN DUN WHU? for me.
If you DO know the characters well though Im sure its rocking and full of cool surprises. Im just feel like I'm coming into a movie half way through
No excuses, Richard! The Sin/Dex trades are essential reading. They need to get caught up though - and quick. I've been away and some of it's lost on me.
I cant bring myself to get Sin/Dex trades when Im still only up to VOLUME SIX of the case files and dont even got the Anderson or Robo Hunter ones!
That said, I do have one of the collections, Slay per View, that I got as a con freebie which I read a few years back and enjoyed but I'd be lying if I said I could remember that much about it
Quote from: bluemeanie on 09 December, 2009, 12:04:13 PM
What I think this story needs at this stage is a totally new character with Sin & Dex. Someone they can turn to every now and then and say "Hell - its Fred! He used to run a hitman agency and we killed him two years ago" and give a bit of an in story recap for those of us who are a little lost with who everyone is.
You mean someone like Missy Solemnis?
I know what you mean, Bluemeanie, but the fact is that you are coming in way further down the line than halfway, and there's
already far too much recapping in a five-page episode for my tastes. It's just a consequence of trying to tell a complex tale in short bursts made up of weekly snippets - I'd hate to think 2000AD would ever stop trying to do that sort of thing. The compromise solution would of course be to run a little quarter page recap in the Nerve Centre every time a story returns, which I know has been suggested many times before.
Yeah, I think I mentioned I'd love recaps, especially with a story like this which follows on from stuff a few months back.
Hell, even go as far as to have a glossary. Stick it on the back page with a little "If you arent up to speed on Sinister Dexter, go check the inside back cover"
You wouldnt have to do it every time a new story starts, but for backstory heavy ones like this it'd help
Quote from: bluemeanie on 09 December, 2009, 03:18:32 PM
Yeah, I think I mentioned I'd love recaps, especially with a story like this which follows on from stuff a few months back.
Hell, even go as far as to have a glossary. Stick it on the back page with a little "If you arent up to speed on Sinister Dexter, go check the inside back cover"
You wouldnt have to do it every time a new story starts, but for backstory heavy ones like this it'd help
Probably not practical for the Prog, but at the front of all the Fables trades they do a list of pertinent characters and a tiny who they are thing. It works as a recap and a whos who, I think it's a great idea. But as I say not really practical for the Prog. I don't really get what's going on in Sin/Dex but am still really enjoying it. It's like you say, the surprise element is lost on me, but can still enjoy the rest of the story, if that makes sense.
Yeah, but I still feel like I'm missing the best bits.
Its like at the end of the last one I read - ITS THE BLONDE WOMAN!!
wow!
who?
Its the curse of stuff like this though. You want to do stories for the fans of the series and give them cool stuff without wasting time recaping and holding newbies hands. I still think this strip especially suffers from the last break which really was half way through this arc.
I drink a lot - my memory sucks! I need reminders
While all just goes to show that Tharg needs to stop using Sinister Dexter as filler (well that's how I imagine it anyway not based on anything as silly as fact!) and give it the good long run it deserves - thus making a bit of recap worth while.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 09 December, 2009, 04:46:34 PM
While all just goes to show that Tharg needs to stop using Sinister Dexter as filler (well that's how I imagine it anyway not based on anything as silly as fact!) and give it the good long run it deserves - thus making a bit of recap worth while.
Mmmm. I feel a letter to Tharg coming on. Just as long as he doesn't end up with those awful full-page recap/title things he infested the prog with back in 1989/90. I mean, I like nice Bisley pen-and-ink-wash as much as the next man, but not every bloody week.
I thought the opening episode to the current run (and the last one) was a masterclass in recap storytelling. In those five pages, nothing much happened but all the major characters were referenced and their place in the story (briefly) explained. I seem to recall Flint and Meanie still found this episode boring and/or confusing.
If you want stories with over-arching plotlines and real develeopment, that don't get "reset" every few episodes, then you've got to expect some confusion when you're late to the party. I think Abnett has done stirling work bringing us back up to speed after the (frustratingly frequent) breaks in the story.
There is NO recap at all in Dredd, and it also had a long and complex build up, yet you don't level the same criticism at that.
True, but maybe due to the fact that I think Dredd arcs can be read as and of themselves I dont think its really the same.
I mean with the current stuff, some of the Dan Francisco stuff was going over my head at the start but now all you need to know is its Dredd, hes in the desert, hes the good guy. Sinisters multiple realities and alternate versions of important characters who are dead (and who I never really knew in the first place) all feels a bit much.
Again, I keep thinking "I know Im missing half of whats cool about this" so I just woulda appreciated it being a little bit more newbie friendly.
Like you say though, this really didnt feel like the break was an intentional narrative one and I think its suffered for the gap. Im not hating it by any stretch, its just passing me by a bit.
Helpful recaps'r'us:
Sinister and Dexter are 'gunsharks', contract killers working in the vast urban sprawl of Downlode, extending across most of central Europe.
They used to work for sexy crimeboss Demi Octavo, who killed her rival kingpin and husband Holy Moses Tannenbaum, before being killed herself, an event that badly shook the boys' partnership and the balance of criminal power in the city.
Out of the resulting mess, a secret clone of Moses Tannenbaum known as Apellido becomes chief crimelord of Downlode.
The boys have a range of uneasy allies, including Demi's kid sister Billi, ex-cop cyborg bar-owner Rocky Rhodes, Finny's estranged wife the crimeboss of high-tech Asian city Mangapore, and former gunshark protege Kal Cutter.
Following a complex series of cock-ups and betrayals, the lads ended up on the wrong side of both Apellido and the law. Dexter was shot and paralysed by his cop-girlfriend Tracy Weld, and Billi was badly injured. Sinister, thinking Dexter dead, fled off-planet to no-account colony Generica and assumed a new identity as 'Malone', while Kal Kutter started working for new player in town, The Mover.
The Mover turns out to be another version of Moses Tannenbaum from a parallel dimension where Downlode is rapidly losing a war of invasion, and he has decided to move his crime empire to 'our' Downlode by replacing key figures with dupes from his own parallel. These are frequently gunsharks and ne'er-do-wells who Sinister Dexter have offed in 'our' dimension, but who instead lived on because the lads themselves were killed at an early age in The Mover's world. In response, Apellido acquires some genetically engineered super-enforcers of his own, but still seems the weaker party in the War of the Moses.
Learning that Dexter is still alive, Finny comes back from Generica to break him out of prison in inventive fashion, and get him fixed up. The lads resume their partnership, but find themselves running up against foes they had thought long dead, while caught between old enemy Apellido and new power The Mover. Meanwhile Tracy Weld has been suspended and harrassed by the Downlode authorities becasue of her association with Dexter, and finally snaps and kills her 'handler'. Kal Kutter's wife is killed when the lads rescue her from The Mover, who was holding her as leverage against him. Wannabe singer Missy Solemnis, Finny's friend when he was 'Malone', has come to Downlode chasing stardom, but falls into the seedier end of The Mover's empire and is recused by Finny.
Now, The Mover sends the Demi Octavo from his world to make the two boys an offer they can't - but must -refuse.
Tordelback that's brilliant! Thanks, that makes things alot clearer
Hence the dropped jaws when "the blonde chick" showed up. Her death was one of those really quite unexpected kicks in the teeth Abnet does so well and honestly made me cry.
Now, all Tharg needs is to get the intervening stuff collected quick and job done. Sin/Dex is one of the Twoth greats, no question.
Shit!
Wish I had read the rest of this thread before recording the latest podcast!!!
Sinister Dexter is one of those strips that I really should go back and read from the beginning. I'm currently doing that with Dante and I'm enjoying it.
As for the 'Bad Writer' comment. I do believe that there are writers perfectly suited for 2000ad's short burst and some that aren't.
I read the last 40 episodes of sin/dex (starting around May 07 cover dates) last night as this thread and the current storyline (and TB's recap) had fired my imagination.
That block started with "The Doctor Is In" and brought us up to date. Intereting to note we've only had about 12 episodes per year in that time, not nearly enough to keep the momentum going in the weekly for casual readers. Ploughing through like that in short order it works brilliantly.
I really want to read whatever's after Money Shots GN (containing the first Sin/Dex I'd not read in the prog) up to that point. I wish Tharg would hurry up and get as caught up as the Dante collections are. Does anyone have any ideas as to how many collections that would take?
QuoteIntereting to note we've only had about 12 episodes per year in that time,
Blimey, I never noticed that! Hardly enough to keep a relatively complex story on the rails, so Blue and Flint's criticism makes a lot of sense. If you're going to try something like this (and you should), it needs to be given more space and longer runs. Never thought I'd be saying
that about Sinister Dexter.
Any chance of a prog 2010 review before Christmas?
yeah. We'll aim for that. Definitely.
In case anyone cares, the latest one is done, and has the greatest intro EVER.
Sent it to the Geek Syndicate guys but they blagged tickets to Sherlock Holmes tonight (THE C**TS!!) so I think it got put on the back burner.
Will give them a nag to get it online tomorrow as I know you are all dying to hear Flint enjoy Necrophim... no, really... he does!! (until I mention demonic handbags and it all goes tits up)
I've read 2010 so will try and pin Flint down to do a quick one on that before xmas
Yeah, we care.
Don't panic, I'm not turning gay, your bottoms are safe.
For now... ;-p
Cheers bluemeanie, looking forward to it as always. The podacast that is, not anything to do with you and Gloady... :-\
Just be thankful that I edited out the "o-" from the "end" of my last post...