Seems there is a campaign to get RATM's "Killing In the Name (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_in_the_Name)" to #1 for Xmas:
QuoteThe song is the focus of a campaign to beat the X Factor talent show winner to the UK Christmas number 1 single, an almost inevitable outcome based on previous year's releases. The song, from Rage Against The Machine's debut album, was seemingly chosen as it builds to a furious chant of "F*ck you, I won't do what you tell me".
The campaign to bag 'Killing In The Name Of' the UK Christmas number 1 single slot is gaining momentum with nearly 600,000 fans joining the Facebook page with the intention of all buying the song on December 13th to outsell the X Factor winner.
www.clashmusic.com/feature/rage-against-the-machine-killing-in-the-name-of
It seems to have annoyed Simon Cowell and that is enough for me:
www.clashmusic.com/news/simon-cowell-vs-rage-against-the-machine
Of course, the irony of him calling this campaign "stupid" and "cynical" would only make this sweeter. I'd do this even if I wasn't a fan (and I am - I saw them live in 1993).
The Facebook group is here:
www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=2228594104&ref=mf
I joined a few days ago ... 79p to buy the song from iTunes on 13th December. If half a million people do it (Alexandra Whatserface sold 560,000 last year to bag the Christmas No1) then our jolly Christmas No1 will be Rage Against the Machine. Just in case you've managed to miss it, or have been living in a cave for a couple of decades, it's this one. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkuOAY-S6OY)
This is an honourable tradition begun by Iron Maiden, who were touring one year in Nov/Dec and exhorted fans to all go out and buy their single on the same day ... thus knocking Cliff Richard's "Saviour's Day" off the No1 slot. (Arf!)
Cheers
Jim
Aw go on then! I'll have one for a good cause - it's Christmas!
It'll certainly wake the old and turkey dazed come xmas Top of The Pops. I too seen them in '93 - possibly the most aggressively tense crowd I've ever been in, but they were fantastic.
Just last week I was saying to Mrs Mikey how it's shite that it's essentially the same fucken song every xmas because of X Factor. It really is bollocks that fucken smug bunch of cunts raking it in every year. Bastards!
M.
Signed up. Anything to stop the rot.
Fuck you- I won't do what you tell me.
I uninstalled iTunes and Realplayer years ago, but seeing as it's Christmas...
I wasnt planning on joining up to this until I read Cowells response. What a bell end. I shall be buying it come monday.
79p to get MUSICIANS that prestigious spot rather than fame-hungry, talent-poor, lazy get-rich-quick morons sounds like a bargain.
So going by simon Cowells comment there isnt a free market regarding chart music especially at Xmas ?
So for that i am going to buy this single and besides Simon Cowell is a dickhead and like everyone else here i am sick and tired off anything to do with X-Factor.
Fuck Off Simon Cowell.Stupid Hypocrite.
I just contributed to Shelter directly instead. I don't agree with the basic ideology behind the whole thing - why RATM? If we want Christmas No. 1's back, why not Slade? Is it because Slade are 'pop' and RATM are 'important'? X-Factor's just as 'real' a piece of music, and just as relevant to the Xmas period, as anything by RATM - it's just marketed differently by the Industry, aimed at a different demographic. What this seems to be saying is that the people who buy X-Factor singles because they like them and want them at the top of the charts - and those people do exist - should somehow matter less than the people who buy RATM singles (which presumably they already own) because they like them and want them at the top of the charts. That feels a bit too much like cultural snobbery for my liking, a self-proclaimed musical 'elite' actively looking down their noses rather than just liking what they like and letting the whole human comedy tumble along as it always has.
Still, I wouldn't have thought to make that donation if not for this, and they are netting a fair amount for Shelter, so good on them for thinking it up, even if I don't agree.
(Side note - are Rage Against The Machine raging at the machine out of Florence And The Machine? Should Florence stick her oar into this?)
I was already planning to buy this (again) on Monday, but after reading that article, I'm doubly determined. 79p to help topple that tit-end? Bargain.
I really don't want to know what Flo is DOING with that machine. Best to keep these things mysterious.
Quote from: Al_Ewing on 11 December, 2009, 04:54:49 PM
I don't agree with the basic ideology behind the whole thing
What? Annoying Simon Cowell?
It's pretty easy to get a Christmas No 1 if ITV pay you to broadcast a massive commercial for your artist, which is basically what happens with X Factor. I have no agenda or axe to grind beyond the idea that it's a petty little act of rebellion that will annoy Cowell.
Why RATM? Why not? I like the fact that it's about as Christmassy as Maiden's "Bring Your Daughter". Personally, I'd have preferred the campaign to have been to make Rammstein's 'Pussy' No1, but "Killing in the Name" is fairly inappropriate, and I'm happy with that.
Cheers!
Jim
I wish we could have some proper Christmas songs again.
I think the last good one was 'Last Christmas' or that Mariah Carey one.
I think that people don't see Christmas songs as cool, but I say fuck 'em, David Bowie did a Christmas record!
I'm not keen on bandwagons or whatnot but I'm up for this.
Fuck you, Simon Cowell. :)
- Trout
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 11 December, 2009, 05:03:30 PM
What? Annoying Simon Cowell?
Yeah, but you could just ring his doorbell and run away to do that. This is a bit more troublesome to me than just irritating a tit.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 11 December, 2009, 05:03:30 PM
It's pretty easy to get a Christmas No 1 if ITV pay you to broadcast a massive commercial for your artist, which is basically what happens with X Factor.
I'm more in agreement with this line of argument - I'd like the Xmas number one to 'matter' again, but I'm aware that the only reason for that is nostalgia. There are still loads of Christmas songs out at Christmas, though - including this one!
http://www.mjhibbett.net/christmas.htm (And why aren't musos getting behind Mark en masse? He's a long-time 2KAD fan and I promise he isn't part of 'the machine'.)
Not sure where I'm going with that. I guess I'm mourning the death of Xmas No.1 as much as anybody, but this kind of stunt seems pretty meaningless to me - replacing one demagogue with another.
Good point Al E-wing bot. My hesitations have finally been explained to me. I can now weigh up the pro's and con's of the decision. I think that the maline conformity that is eating at the heart of todays youth should be answered as part of the human comedy. Rage isn't the best choice, but it is the alternate and he you're sick of the banal by rights you should a able to have an alternative available. So this idea however cynical it at first seems could open a doorway to less cynical means of battling depressingly obvious outcomes in the future. So...I'm in. Where do I buy the physical?
Quote from: Al_Ewing on 11 December, 2009, 05:19:24 PM
Not sure where I'm going with that. I guess I'm mourning the death of Xmas No.1 as much as anybody, but this kind of stunt seems pretty meaningless to me - replacing one demagogue with another.
You're clearly thinking about this a lot more than I am, Al!
Someone says to me ... you want to thumb your nose at a peddler of vacuous manufactured pop music because he thinks he's got the God-given right to the Christmas No1 slot (and, frankly, it would annoy me equally if it were the Bonfire Night No1 slot, or May Bank Holiday No1 slot) regardless of who the artist is and what shite they're singing ... and it'll cost you 79p and you can do it from the comfort of your living room?
Well, yes, I'm basically up for that.
Cheers!
Jim
As far as musical snobbery goes, I plead guilty.
I'm a snob when it comes to most art - there's the stuff I like, the stuff I don't like and the stuff that I find offensive. X-Factor, while amusing in it's early rounds when you can laugh at the sadly deluded (I'm not PROUD of that, but I'm being honest) is fairly offensive to me as a musician (failed) and life-long lover and student of pop music in general.
I can appreciate hard work and talent even if the actual work is something that's not to my personal taste. An example might be Whitney Houston - that's a rare talent, but one I find rather annoying in several ways but that does nothing to detract from her obvious ability.
I find the mining of aspirational kids (for they are, for the most part, young and impressionable and their heads are full of dreams) unpleasant. I also find the notion that you can somehow circumvent the traditional method of becoming a success (ie working hard, gigging, touring, recording, making a name) to be offensive too. In hip hop (and jazz and blues for that matter) there is a culture of paying your dues and there's only one way to do that - hard work. Sure, there's an element of luck, but you still have to work hard to capitalise on it.
These shows don't tend to give these kids much of a career (presumably because, for the most part, they're people who wouldn't have made it any other way). The only ones who hang about for any real length of time are those who work hard (and therefore would probably have made it anyway to some lesser degree).
* This post brought to you by BITTER FAILED MUSO *
I do mostly see where you're coming from though, Al. And I too would like for these things to matter again, but I think the world's changed and there's not really any going back. That said, the British public DID eventually grow out of their Big Brother obsession, so when the next thing comes along we'll more than likely see x-Factor's stranglehold on x-mas record sales loosen.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 11 December, 2009, 05:03:30 PMbut "Killing in the Name" is fairly inappropriate
Some bloke called Matthew may beg to differ (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%202:16&version=KJV)
I think it's the perfect Christmas song. Easily as appropriate as Leonard Cohen being murdered by some dodgy sub-karaoke singer.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 11 December, 2009, 05:27:09 PM
Someone says to me ... you want to thumb your nose at a peddler of vacuous manufactured pop music because he thinks he's got the God-given right to the Christmas No1 slot (and, frankly, it would annoy me equally if it were the Bonfire Night No1 slot, or May Bank Holiday No1 slot) regardless of who the artist is and what shite they're singing ... and it'll cost you 79p and you can do it from the comfort of your living room?
Well, yes, I'm basically up for that.
Never a truer word spoken! And that's exactly why I'm not buying the Rage Against The Machine single and buying MJ Hibbett & The Validators this year instead.
(See also: "And that was just the teachers!" "And then I got off the bus...")
Anyway, yeah, it's mostly the RATM inclusion that bugs me. I resent being told what to buy, and at least Cowell's never pretended to be the voice of authenticity, unlike whatever student thought this up.
EDIT: And replacing 'malign conformity' with 'benign conformity' rubs me raw as well. Conformity's ACE as long as you agree with MEEEEEEEE!
Its all about record sales [how frightfully old fashioned !]..i mean download sales ultimately.Whichever download sells the most gets to the top of the charts.
Any other argument or debate about which song is more appropriate or is cynically marketed or whatever is ultimately irrelevent.
Its not so much the fact that i want to keep formulised X Factor trash from the top of the charts but rather my individual protest about the attitude of Simon Cowell who as it has been correctly pointed out seems to think he has a god given right to be number 1 and his hypocrisy of complaining that the RATM track campaqign is somehow cynical.
Of course its cynical you dumb fucking idiot as its a protest .
Moron.
So its not cynical for there to be yet another X Factor released @ Xmas for the Nth time ??
If he doesnt like the chart business he can always leave it and take his godawful 3rd rate Shite with him.
I will buy the damned RATM track simply because i hate hypocrites and crybabys.
GGrrrr.....
Cowel's a television producer, not a musical svengali (although he'd dispute this) - witness his greatest work, namely bringing Robson & Jerome to the record buying public.
And Zig & Zag. Honest. Not exactly earth-shattering in either quality OR sales (apart from those few terrible months where you couldn't turn around for their awful recycling of classics being shoved down your unwilling ears. Robson & Jerome I mean, not Zig & Zag - they were great).
I'm faintly suspicious that whenever he claims to be "annoyed" about something it's all a CYNICAL stunt to get the loyal Factorites out there and buying his Christmas record as soon as the identikit "star" has been inserted into it. The protest may have backfired somewhat as there are almost certainly more Factorites than RATM fans.
Also - RATM? Really? If this WAS dreamt up by a dopey student (as, in all probability it was) then its' a student in a time-warp. Not exactly up-to-the-minute there, eh?
All students are in time-warps. When I was a student I acted like I was the only person ever to have discovered Harold Wilson & The Bluenotes.
Anyway, as my last word on the subject (the washing-up is calling and I've been putting it off for ages so I can argue here!) I'll provide a link to a whole EP of possible Xmas No. 1s, ethically farmed, NEW as opposed to OLD, and by struggling musos who don't have the benefit of either Cowell's svengali-like 'talents' or of a bunch of students wanting to use them as a situationist prank.
http://itunes.apple.com/gb/album/got-you-what-you-want/id339073120?i=339073400
So if you do care about hem-hem 'real music', have a wee listen to these and consider picking one of them up as your 'protest'. After all, RATM have had their big break already and these guys could use some new customers!
And if anyone has any similar breakout acts who need a bit of Xmas generosity, why not plug them here? Let's take a third way. A THARG way.
WHAT a cracking idea, Al. I salute you sir.
Ah, by way of epilogue to my (yet again) having a go at X-Factor, a former customer and now friend is a fine singer/songwriter and has decided to apply for next year - so I'll be keeping schtum on the whole thing from now on (sigh of relief from the whole board). She's been gigging for years and learning the trade and I'll not have any complaints if she ends up doing well out of the whole thing as I go and see her fairly often when she's playing.
So there you go. Hypocritical I may be, but at least I announce it.
You can stuff your ideological qualms up your hole - it is a petulant and stupid thing to do and that's probably why they've chosen that particular song: a schoolboy standard that matches the tone of the campaign. Which is not to say I don't have fond memories attached to the album.
If it was Iron Maiden's Run to the Hills or the Monkees' Last Train to Clarksville, I'd also buy it, mind. Cowell's sense of entitlement makes it sort of easy, though I can't shake the suspicion he's playing his hand a bit too heavily for someone so media-savvy. Maybe he's playing along to drum up some buzz around the sales date, or maybe he's just being philanthropic and drumming up interest in something that - let's be honest - doesn't have a hope because he thinks it's a worthy charity - he may just be acting an arsehole here, as that's pretty much his trade.
Although if we're talking about putting a song at #1 that's just plain awesome with a video to match that deserves to be played often at Christmas, I'll see your MJ Hibbett & The Validators and raise you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV6noHEd6XE
Last Train to Clarksville?
*Searches his library, finds it, presses play.*
Thanks Prof. I love that song. I shall no doubt be mainlining the Monkees all evening now.
Quote from: Al_Ewing on 11 December, 2009, 04:54:49 PM
I just contributed to Shelter directly instead. I don't agree with the basic ideology behind the whole thing - why RATM? If we want Christmas No. 1's back, why not Slade? Is it because Slade are 'pop' and RATM are 'important'?
I think Rich hit the nail on the head:
Quote from: His Lordship rac on 11 December, 2009, 04:08:05 PMFuck you- I won't do what you tell me.
Its really just the lyrics. They interviewed one of the people behind it and she said that her and her husband are 60ish and the song really isn't their cup of tea but it seemed to sum up their feelings about Siman Cowell pretty much automatically bulldozing his way to the #1 spot every year. This side of Half Man, Half Biscuit releasing "Go and take a shit up a flagpole, Simon Cowell" in the next few days, it is as good as anything.
Of course, it could be a secret plan by Cowellites, as it will prompt their side to buy more copies but I might be over-thinking this too much ;)
Anyway not being big on Facebook or iTunes (or anything the young 'uns seem to be calling "techno-bobbins") I am happy to see you can buy it from Amazon for 29p:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001I4NZP4/
Having done my festive good deed by preparing this year's naked family Christmas card (a subsitute for shop-bought ones saving not only on the gigantic waste but also donating all funds to Oxfam and/or MSF - not sure it has been decided) I think 29p isn't too much to pay to make some fool sweat a bit.
That said if you want to start now in the campaign to do the same next Xmas for a proper Xmas song then I'm with you all the way!!
Its not cheating to buy the RATM track as well as a track from one of the unknown acts is it ?
Well if it is then thats too bad !
This is not forgetting that if this protest takes off then it is going to massively increase sales of downloads of X Factor tracks as a reaction to the campaign by the fans.
I am sure that this factor has not been overlooked by Simon Cowell
Article :
.http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/dec/10/simon-cowell-rage-against-machine
Theres nothing like the oxygen of publicity and press conferences is there Simon ?
Theres nothing cynical going on here....
;)
Quote from: Peter Wolf on 11 December, 2009, 06:18:17 PM
Its not cheating to buy the RATM track as well as a track from one of the unknown acts is it ?
Nope - in fact it should be encouraged. It might even give people the taste for it. Hell why not buy Slade too? Only 79p:
www.amazon.co.uk/Merry-Xmas-Everybody/dp/B001M09VD4/
Ah, Slade. Not a great band really, but hugely entertaining and fun and as much a part of xmas as the dinner, the rubbish films you've already seen and the round robin Christmas cards from people you don't quite remember with their "what we've been up to" nonsense and pictures of themselves on the front.
Quote from: His Lordship rac on 11 December, 2009, 04:08:05 PM
Fuck you- I won't do what you tell me.
I made this exact response to the equivalent thread on another forum a few days ago and got told off by a mod. I felt silly having to explain it.
Anyway, speaking as a massive music snob, my biggest problem with all this is that Rage Against the Machine are utter shit. I like David Bowie's effort, but Low's version of Little Drummer Boy should be number one every Christmas.
http://www.last.fm/music/Low/_/Little+Drummer+Boy?autostart
I'll have a listen to some of that other stuff. I almost saw Hibbett at the Festival but failed to get out of bed in time.
Quote from: The Cosh on 11 December, 2009, 09:19:55 PM
Anyway, speaking as a massive music snob, my biggest problem with all this is that Rage Against the Machine are utter shit.
Why are people hung up on the fact it's Rage Against the Machine? Doesn't matter what it is, as long as 500,000 or more people buy the
same fucking track between Dec 13th - 19th then there's an excellent chance that X Factor won't get the No1 spot. Pissing off Cowell is what's important in this proposition -- the choice of track is largely irrelevant, except that it's a bit late to raise an objection now.
Cheers
Jim
If this song is really anti Simon Cowell, why not push Cannibal Corpse's 'Hammer Smashed Face'?
Straight and to the point, right there.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 11 December, 2009, 09:27:23 PM
Pissing off Cowell is what's important in this proposition -- the choice of track is largely irrelevant, except that it's a bit late to raise an objection now.
The choice of track is probably fairly relevant to some poor struggling band putting out new music rather than decade-old tracks... like the Filipino Dream Girls! Here they are on Radio Nowhere with 'Santa Suit'! http://radionowhereuk.blogspot.com/2009/12/filipino-dream-girls-santa-suit.html
Anyway, it's never too late to raise an objection to anything.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 11 December, 2009, 09:27:23 PM
Why are people hung up on the fact it's Rage Against the Machine? Doesn't matter what it is, as long as 500,000 or more people buy the same fucking track between Dec 13th - 19th then there's an excellent chance that X Factor won't get the No1 spot. Pissing off Cowell is what's important in this proposition -- the choice of track is largely irrelevant, except that it's a bit late to raise an objection now.
At the risk of taking it all far too seriously.
It is irrelevant to the goal of trying to annoy Cowell, but it's perfectly relevant to an individual who doesn't feel like paying money for something he doesn't want to hear. It's a bit like asking people to pay to eat a shit because it'll annoy Jamie Oliver: a dubious means to an admirable end.
It all depends how strongly the idea of antagonising the man we love to hate appeals to you I suppose and I'm just not that fussed about Cowell, X Factor et al. I'm not a fan, but the Christmas number 1 (or any number 1 really) isn't something I worry about. Just as long as it's not fucking Cliff. Whatever he says, he's not really going to be that annoyed about selling half a million records. If he's got any brains (and he clearly has) he'll have teams of viral marketing weasels setting up rival groups to convince people to buy two copies of his record and he'll end up even richer than he would've anyway.
And I've been objecting to Rage Against the Machine for substantially longer than the past week.
A chance to piss off the biggest wanker on the planet?
Yes please.
Umm ... OK. This is officially the most pointless argument of the day.
Q: Do you want to annoy Simon Cowell by denying him the Christmas No1 slot he clearly believes is his by right?
If No: then conversation over.
If Yes: then what is required is for 500,000+ people to buy a specific track during the qualifying period. That track -- whatever your opinion of it -- has been nominated as Rage Against the Machine's "Killing In The Name Of". Do you have a problem with this?
If Yes: Fine. Don't buy it, then. Buy whatever makes you happy!
If No: Fine. Do buy it, then.
At this point, these are the options. 29p (from Amazon) to annoy Simon Cowell ... it's hardly the same as "eating shit" now, is it?
Cheers
Jim
Well, the point of the argument for me is that it's exploring what we think about music, and what music is for. I'm also interested in it because of what it says about consumption as narrative - how what we buy, when we buy it, feeds into an internal narrative of heroes and villains that we create for ourselves. Frank Kogan writes quite a lot about similar issues: http://koganbot.livejournal.com/20510.html
But yeah, you're right - it's a simple decision to either be part of this thing or not. I'm happy seeing it boiled down to the absolutes like that.
Quote from: Al_Ewing on 11 December, 2009, 10:56:34 PM
Well, the point of the argument for me is that it's exploring what we think about music, and what music is for.
That's actually an excellent point. Given that I really, really don't give a shit about anything that makes it into the charts, perhaps I'm just more amused by the entirely juvenile idea of getting a record with lots of swearing into the No1 slot.
I've changed my mind ... "You're A Fucking Bastard" by The Exploited for Christmas No1!
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 12 December, 2009, 12:11:21 AM
I've changed my mind ... "You're A Fucking Bastard" by The Exploited for Christmas No1!
Now there's a campaign I can really get behind!
I think all the things Al just said are interesting and worth slavering about at length.
X-Factor is really about light entertainment and very little to do with music as a form of creative expression.
I can see where Al's coming from, but this isn't really a debate about quality music - it's about a spontaneous movement, a singular surge of opinion that wouldn't work if we all voted for individual tracks; but only has a point as a one-off popular event - this track has been chosen, so I've just bought it to add weight to the voting mass.
I have no illusions about what we'll achieve, but if it throws a spanner in the works of the commercial machinery around the Christmas No 1 (or even if it just pisses Mr Cowell off a bit) then it's worth my 99p (interestingly, not 79p like all the other RATM tracks on i-tunes - coincidence or Steve Jobs new Jacuzzi?)
Sorry, but that song is incredibly boring and I really would rather not hear it any time soon, thank you very much.
EDIT: I've only just seen that an argument has arisen over statements such as this and I would like to apologize if any further ill will has been stirred in your loins. Sorry.
Quote from: Dandontdare on 12 December, 2009, 12:44:17 AM
so I've just bought it to add weight to the voting mass.
Gaah! Not until the 13th!
Cheers
Jim
oops - does this mean I'll have to buy it again on the 13th? I wonder how many other wasted sales can be racked up to numpties like me who didn't read the blurb properly? It's already the most popular RATM track on i-tunes by a looooong chalk.
That's what you get for being a subversheep.
Boy, do I find it hard to care. I've never watched X-Factor or whatever beyond an initial viewing and decision that this really wasn't for me, and I probably haven't cared about who gets the Christmas No. 1 since Band Aid. I note that the vomit-inducing Saviour's Day is still played incessantly, regardless of who knocked it off the top spot, or why. I also imagine that Simon Cowell is fully aware that he plays a character called Simon on a TV show where fake confrontation and affected meanness and enthusiasm in equal measure are what line his pockets, so I doubt he would be even remotely genuinely annoyed unless the readies stopped flowing, which they won't.
On the other hand, if this kind of stunt exposes the music-buying public as the tasteless media-led sheep they are (the RATM track is pretty awful IMHO, and I imagine I would tire of hearing it just as fast as I would Mr. Blobby or whoever), I suppose I'd be in for a pound.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 12 December, 2009, 01:16:10 AM
Gaah! Not until the 13th!
And, apparently, sales under 40p aren't counted, so it needs to be iTunes and not Amazon.
Cheers!
Jim
What a very interesting discussion. I don't really care enough about X-Factor or Simon Cowell to buy a download - I rarely buy downloads, and on my budget I only buy any music if I really think I need it.
I'd get right behind the campaign if the download track were 'So What?' by Anti-Nowhere League.
I was in Cardiff the other day and saw that Loyd Daniels off X-Factor on a little stage in the high street. He was very entertaining and quite sweet, and had quite a big crowd watching, with about 50 screaming girls. It was quite heartwarming. I wouldn't buy his records though. His mum joined him on stage. She must be very proud.
Mr Ewing, Surely you mean Harlod Melvin and the Bluenotes? ;D
Whilst I don't like RATM I support the idea full heartedly, in the words of The Jam: A brave but usless show of compassion
From this week's Popbitch
QuoteThere's an internet campaign to back Rage Against TheMachine's Killing in the Name as Xmas number one.On the same label as the X Factor track, there's a nice conspiracy theory that Cowell has bought the publishing rights and is behind the campaign...
Oh the delicious (possible) irony...
Even if he hasn't pulled a Palpatine it's not like a 'bidding war' for the Xmas No. 1 is going to hurt his bottom line any.
Quote from: Proudhuff on 12 December, 2009, 04:15:58 PM
Mr Ewing, Surely you mean Harlod Melvin and the Bluenotes? ;D
I almost wish I didn't. Harold Wilson and the Bluenotes would have been awesome.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 12 December, 2009, 10:26:45 AM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 12 December, 2009, 01:16:10 AM
Gaah! Not until the 13th!
And, apparently, sales under 40p aren't counted, so it needs to be iTunes and not Amazon.
Ah that might be a problem - I'm unsure if I am arsed enough to bother signing up to iTunes just so I can buy a track their to annoy Simon Cowell. Clicking a button, yes, too much faffing around, no.*
See, now I smell an iTunes conspiracy!!!
* As a comparison: I'd cross the road to punch him in the face, I'd probably not hop on a train to London to do it.
I could lend you the train fare.
What if we tie him to the track?
I'd heard the rumour Kate mentioned a few posts back, about Cowell possibly owning the publishing on that one. I know that it was a massive coincidence that he just HAPPENED to own the publishing on Leonard Cohen's song that was murdered by a previous winner. Could happen.
So, it would appear that Facebook has deleted the Rage Against The Machine for No1 Group!
Never mind! You can now find the 'back-up' page here:
http://www.ragegroup.co.uk/
Follow the instructions, and we're all good! Let's do this thing, eh?
Cheers!
Jim
Done. Next!
'Killing In The Name' up to no. 5 on the Last FM SONY BMG MUSIC UK charts!
http://www.last.fm/label/SONY+BMG+MUSIC+UK
GO SONY BMG!
http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/business/Simon+Cowell-225.html
(I'm sorry, I can't help it, it's like a sickness)
Simon Cowell is killing music.
Music died in the late ninties when most chart stuff was covers or sampled shit.
V
Quote from: vzzbux on 13 December, 2009, 07:57:05 PM
Music died in the late ninties when most chart stuff was covers or sampled shit.
V
Eh? Pardon me but what a load of auld shite! The 90's had awesometastic music, not least for me personally the whole grunge music scene which formed the basis of my music loves of today. It's like saying music died in the 80's cos of Stock Aitken and Waterman. Music is unstoppable.
Nothing's as good as it used to be ... it's all shit and everything was better when I was lad.
Cheers!
Jim
Quote from: stacey on 13 December, 2009, 08:23:39 PM
Quote from: vzzbux on 13 December, 2009, 07:57:05 PM
Music died in the late ninties when most chart stuff was covers or sampled shit.
V
Eh? Pardon me but what a load of auld shite! The 90's had awesometastic music, not least for me personally the whole grunge music scene which formed the basis of my music loves of today. It's like saying music died in the 80's cos of Stock Aitken and Waterman. Music is unstoppable.
Yep and the good stuff is rarely in the charts anyhow. Good music nearly always hangs out on the edges of the mainstream.
The grunge scene wasn't really main stream. Like my taste which is hardcore metal.
My point was pop music that was shite full of covers and sample shit.
V
Quote from: vzzbux on 13 December, 2009, 08:48:22 PM
The grunge scene wasn't really main stream. Like my taste which is hardcore metal.
My point was pop music that was shite full of covers and sample shit.
V
Like how Nirvana 'sampled' Boston's
More than A Feeling for
Smells Like Teen Spirit..?
I think I'm kinda missing your point. So Music didn't die in the 90's only pop music that you don't like anyway died?
Covers and sampling don't = shite as far as I'm concerned, Nirvana's cover of The Man Who Sold the World is one of my favourite songs in the world. Well done sampling can enrich a song and take it to a whole other level. Also covers have been around for ever, I much prefer Amii Stewarts version of Knock on Wood which was released in 1979,so nowt new for the 90's.
I really do think I'm missing the point, so will shut up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaY1F5-Sy0g
From the nineties, packed full of samples, was in the charts. Is it shite... OR BEYOND AWESOME? Judge for yourselves.
(HINT: IT'S AWESOME)
Paul McCartney was on just now which means that if you buy the RATM track you are forbidden to listen to the Beatles ever again and you have to listen to nothing but adolescent cod agit-prop for the Rest. Of. Your. Life.
Ball's in your court, bitches.
I thought that old samples=shit argument had died with my father.
A sampler is a tool which can be used for good or evil, just like a guitar or a chord progression or nuclear fission.
Quote from: Roger Godpleton on 13 December, 2009, 09:13:11 PM
Ball's in your court, bitches.
I could certainly live without ever hearing the Beatles again. I'm not see keen on the other part though, so I think I'll just leave well alone.
Interestingly, I hold The Beatles primarily responsible for the insidious modern-day notion that bands have to write their own material and that people who do covers or interpret others songs are somehow less worthy of appreciation.
I like you, The Cosh. You've got moxie.
Quote from: The Cosh on 13 December, 2009, 09:29:03 PM
Interestingly, I hold The Beatles primarily responsible for the insidious modern-day notion that bands have to write their own material and that people who do covers or interpret others songs are somehow less worthy of appreciation.
Is it the Beatles themselves who would be responsible or people who admire them for setting the standard?
I am intrigued why they deleted the Facebook group, I'd imagine a quick look around could find a lot more worthy of the great dustbin in the sky.
That said the page still seem to be there:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2228594104
Quote from: Dandontdare on 12 December, 2009, 05:10:10 PMI could lend you the train fare.
Quote from: soggy on 12 December, 2009, 05:48:49 PMWhat if we tie him to the track?
OK I'm back in.
Plus you can buy it at Play.com and I've an account there.
http://bit.ly/ratm-play
Quote from: The Cosh on 13 December, 2009, 09:29:03 PM
I could certainly live without ever hearing the Beatles again. I'm not see keen on the other part though, so I think I'll just leave well alone.
Interestingly, I hold The Beatles primarily responsible for the insidious modern-day notion that bands have to write their own material and that people who do covers or interpret others songs are somehow less worthy of appreciation.
Also coming from Liverpool the whole Beatles nostalgia industry is overwhelming - I was once relieving myself in a pub bog and found I was standing between two people dressed in full Sergeant Pepper gear. When it starts interfering with a man's right to have a piss in peace, that is a clear sign it has all gone too far.
And what is all this about sampling? Music went downhill when people stopped using the washboard as an instrument (and no Peter Andre doesn't count, for oh so many reasons).
This thread is full of small.
I have not read this thread. That's how deep my apathy goes.
-pj
You two are conscientious objectors to the culture wars.
They'd've arrested us in less enlightened times...
-pj
No musical atheists in this foxhole.
To be honest, I couldn't care less about Simon Cowell or the X-Factor- but I do feel sorry for this year's winner. Whatever you think of the show and its creator, the winner is just a young lad who's probably feeling on top of the world right now. This is the best thing that's ever happened to him and now a bunch of small minded sheep are going to go out of their way to rub shit all over it- just because they don't like Simon Cowell?!?
Seriously- you people that think this is a good thing? I think you're being very small.
Is all this sudden Rage Against The Machine enthusiasm some kind of preview of whatthe 90s nostalgia industryis going to be like? "And then we wore Che Guevara t-shirts. It was great!"
Quote from: Matt Timson on 14 December, 2009, 01:37:32 AM
Seriously- you people that think this is a good thing? I think you're being very small.
I object to the idea that Simon Cowell (or anyone else) thinks they can effectively pre-book the Christmas (or the Bonfire Night, or the May Bank Holiday) No1 slot and then insert A. N. Other karaoke artist singing generic track #24 by virtue of the fact that they have disguised a massive promotional campaign for the Christmas No1 slot as a TV show.
If singing really
was Joe Whatsisface's life, then he'd be in a band, or he'd be doing the rounds of pub and club gigs and not relying on a Willy Wonka-esque Golden Ticket to give him a shortcut to stardom that effectively spits in the faces of everyone who's trying to do this the hard way.
And, yes, in a way I feel sorry for him, but not that much.
Cheers
Jim
What's an X-Factor? Is it a Chris Carter spin off show?
Quote from: stacey on 13 December, 2009, 08:23:39 PM
Quote from: vzzbux on 13 December, 2009, 07:57:05 PM
Music died in the late ninties when most chart stuff was covers or sampled shit.
V
Eh? Pardon me but what a load of auld shite! The 90's had awesometastic music, not least for me personally the whole grunge music scene which formed the basis of my music loves of today. It's like saying music died in the 80's cos of Stock Aitken and Waterman. Music is unstoppable.
Agreed and agreed. There's always been rubbish in every style and era. And the idea that new ideas in music creation have somehow ruined creativity is just silly. Sure, when new ideas arrive, over-reliance by less-talented people can result in swiftly-dating and uninteresting work for a short time, but that's the exception, not the rule.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 14 December, 2009, 07:37:33 AM
Quote from: Matt Timson on 14 December, 2009, 01:37:32 AM
Seriously- you people that think this is a good thing? I think you're being very small.
I object to the idea that Simon Cowell (or anyone else) thinks they can effectively pre-book the Christmas (or the Bonfire Night, or the May Bank Holiday) No1 slot and then insert A. N. Other karaoke artist singing generic track #24 by virtue of the fact that they have disguised a massive promotional campaign for the Christmas No1 slot as a TV show.
But it's alright to put somebody even less deserving there? Say whatever you like about the winner- but he's hardly a karaoke act, is he? He's got a good voice. He
can sing. I understand the irritation with Cowell- but is it really
that big a deal that it's worth shitting on somebody else's dream?
QuoteIf singing really was Joe Whatsisface's life, then he'd be in a band, or he'd be doing the rounds of pub and club gigs and not relying on a Willy Wonka-esque GoldenTicket to give him a shortcut to stardom that effectively spits in the faces of everyone who's trying to do this the hard way.
That's probably the weakest argument in support of spiteful behaviour that I think I've ever heard. Joe's not really that into singing because he's not doing it the 'right ' way? You'll be telling me next that digital artists are cheating because they're willing to use the tools that are available to them. In fact, by the same logic, if you were serious about lettering, Jim, you'd be doing it all by hand, surely? You are effectively spitting-
spitting, I say, in the face of all those letterers that did it by hand. Except you're not, are you?
QuoteAnd, yes, in a way I feel sorry for him, but not that much.
And that's what genuinely disappoints me, Jim.
Mark Bagley started his career in comics after winning the Marvel Try-Out contest. Is he any less capable an artist for taking advantage of a 'Willy Wonka-esque Golden Ticket' as a shortcut into the industry? Imagine somebody from this board winning that competition today- with the prize being a run on Marvel's biggest selling book. Would that be an insult to all the people working their way up through the small press scene? Do you think that an internet campaign to outsell that book so that it wouldn't be number one would be a particularly nice thing to do?
Do what you like- but please don't attempt to claim some moral high ground by pretending that what you're doing
isn't petty and/or small- minded.
Thanks.
Fuck sake lads- it's only the Christmas No1!
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 14 December, 2009, 07:37:33 AM
If singing really was Joe Whatsisface's life, then he'd be in a band, or he'd be doing the rounds of pub and club gigs and not relying on a Willy Wonka-esque Golden Ticket to give him a shortcut to stardom that effectively spits in the faces of everyone who's trying to do this the RIGHT way.
Fixed that for you.
If he honestly gave a spit about music, he'd be in a band or gigging. If he isn't and doesn't, then surely he's not THAT bothered about it. THAT is the way to be a performer. It doesn't MATTER if you're successful financially if you care about it, the gigs are the thing, not the fame. Going to audition for a televised talent show proves he wants to be famous. If he wanted to be a
musician he can do that easy. That goes for them ALL.
QuoteIf he wanted to be a musician he can do that easy. That goes for them ALL.
But... who says he wants to be a musician? He wants to be a pop star!
EXACTLY!
Star. As in famous. Which is about the most pointless bloody ambition I can imagine.
Quote from: Matt Timson on 14 December, 2009, 09:53:42 AM
Do what you like- but please don't attempt to claim some moral high ground by pretending that what you're doing isn't petty and/or small- minded.
Actually, Matt, I never have, and it was
your attempt to strike a pose of moral superiority that caused me to bristle somewhat.
I have acknowledged upthread that this is a small and petulant act of defiance, and the selection of tune reflects that rather aptly. I have also acknowledged that a large part of the appeal of this campaign is to put a shouty record full of swearing in the No1 slot at Christmas.
QuoteIn fact, by the same logic, if you were serious about lettering, Jim, you'd be doing it all by hand, surely? You are effectively spitting- spitting, I say, in the face of all those letterers that did it by hand. Except you're not, are you?
That, Matt, is entirely spurious and a step too fucking far. Who put a bug up your arse about this, to the extent that you feel need to insult me professionally?
For what it's worth,
no-one, fucking NO-ONE letters by hand any more, with the possible exception of Tom Orzechowski on Savage Dragon, and Erik Larsen pays him extra out of his own pocket to do that. I make a fucking pittance from lettering. Do you know what my standard page rate for a US publisher is? I doubt that you do, but many people on this board would refuse to work for such a small amount. I
am paying my fucking dues.
I would
never belittle your artistic abilities because you use a computer in your art process, Matt, and that was a cheap shot.
Jim
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 14 December, 2009, 10:03:36 AM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 14 December, 2009, 07:37:33 AM
If singing really was Joe Whatsisface's life, then he'd be in a band, or he'd be doing the rounds of pub and club gigs and not relying on a Willy Wonka-esque Golden Ticket to give him a shortcut to stardom that effectively spits in the faces of everyone who's trying to do this the RIGHT way.
Fixed that for you.
If he honestly gave a spit about music, he'd be in a band or gigging. If he isn't and doesn't, then surely he's not THAT bothered about it. THAT is the way to be a performer. It doesn't MATTER if you're successful financially if you care about it, the gigs are the thing, not the fame. Going to audition for a televised talent show proves he wants to be famous. If he wanted to be a musician he can do that easy. That goes for them ALL.
What is this? The JBF? There are RULES TO BE FOLLOWED OR YOU"RE DOING IT WRONG?
::)
Oh noez! Rather than starving to death for my art, I have elected to undertake a series of well paid comic gigs instead! If only I genuinely cared about art...
::)
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 14 December, 2009, 10:08:16 AM
EXACTLY!
Star. As in famous. Which is about the most pointless bloody ambition I can imagine.
Fair enough, I can't imagine it either. But I think I should draw you attention to other singers who did n't write... Elvis for example. Frank Sinatra... you see where I'm going with this..?
And BTW- Campbell- Timson! Stop it now!
And ANYWAY- if you all really wanted to annoy Simon Cowell, you could buy a copy of Turning Tiger: http://www.myebook.com/index.php?option=ebook&id=22822 He'd bloody
hate that.
Well pimped that man.
And I'm not slagging anyone for not writing their own material (Presley & Sinatra are the exampls I use when pointing out how silly THAT argument is too). I'm saying you'd think they'd have a day job and gig one or two nights a week if they wanted to do it, because DOING it is the ambition, the recognition and oppotunity to do it for a living is secondary.
Nothing wrong with recognition, by the way (that's what everyone wants - for someone to appreciate their skills, talent and hard work), it's FAME (specifically as the goal rather than a by-product) that I don't get.
And yes, Matt, to get respect it helps if you've worked hard to get where you are. So there IS a right way to become a famous musician. I'm only aiming my comments towards anyone who's entered x-factor or similar WITHOUT being an active hobbyist (for want of a better term). If the winners have been demonstrably and activly involved before entering they have my respect and I can't blame them for taking any opportunity to get a break.
Like i said earlier the X Factor is light entertainment/Celebrity culture and isnt really about music but it says an awful lot about todays music when Simon Cowell is considered to be the most important and influential figure in the music business today which in turn says an awful lot about popular culture.He has far too much of a monopoly and i dont like his whining when its a free marketand a free market isnt supposed to be about monopolies.
So this campaign is a statement about that as much as its about hating Simon Cowell.
As for sampling and cover versions both are great if they are done well and used creatively but awful if they arent.If the end product is awful then that the fault of the artist rather than there being anything inherently wrong or lazy about using samples or covering songs.LOads of well meaning and "worthy" artists do covers of songs as well.An overwraught cover of a Leonard Cohen song isnt an example of a good cover version.
Finally yes its all just a bit of petty rebelliousness and sticking two fingers up to the establishment which is what pop music is supposed to be about at least some of the time.
Finally after that it is raising cash for Charidee !!
I cannot think of another example of an artist or record company Svengali holding a press conference because they think they are *entitled* to a Xmas number one while cynically working the system and claiming that they are some kind of victim if they dont get it.Its arrogance and hypocrisy and egotistical in the extreme.
Where is Simon Cowells moral superiority ?
Yes there are going to be victims in this but you could say that about every other artist who wont sell enough downloads to have a Xmas number one.Why should X Factor contestants get special treatment ?
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 14 December, 2009, 10:15:32 AM
Quote from: Matt Timson on 14 December, 2009, 09:53:42 AM
Do what you like- but please don't attempt to claim some moral high ground by pretending that what you're doing isn't petty and/or small- minded.
Actually, Matt, I never have, and it was your attempt to strike a pose of moral superiority that caused me to bristle somewhat.
I have acknowledged upthread that this is a small and petulant act of defiance, and the selection of tune reflects that rather aptly. I have also acknowledged that a large part of the appeal of this campaign is to put a shouty record full of swearing in the No1 slot at Christmas.
QuoteIn fact, by the same logic, if you were serious about lettering, Jim, you'd be doing it all by hand, surely? You are effectively spitting- spitting, I say, in the face of all those letterers that did it by hand. Except you're not, are you?
That, Matt, is entirely spurious and a step too fucking far. Who put a bug up your arse about this, to the extent that you feel need to insult me professionally?
For what it's worth, no-one, fucking NO-ONE letters by hand any more, with the possible exception of Tom Orzechowski on Savage Dragon, and Erik Larsen pays him extra out of his own pocket to do that. I make a fucking pittance from lettering. Do you know what my standard page rate for a US publisher is? I doubt that you do, but many people on this board would refuse to work for such a small amount. I am paying my fucking dues.
I would never belittle your artistic abilities because you use a computer in your art process, Matt, and that was a cheap shot.
Jim
I can see how you're reading that, Jim, but you are mistaken. I'm specifically making the point that you are
not spitting in the face of all those that lettered by hand, not that you are not serious about your work. Read it again:
QuoteYou'll be telling me next that digital artists are cheating because they're willing to use the tools that are available to them. In fact, by the same logic, if you were serious about lettering, Jim, you'd be doing it all by hand, surely? You are effectively spitting- spitting, I say, in the face of all those letterers that did it by hand. Except you're not, are you?
To be honest, I am amazed that you would read it that way- especially in light of the sentence, about digital art, that precedes it. I'm even more amazed that you think I'd actually
say something like that. Either way, I'll have that apology when you're ready. ;D
Your 'petulant act of defiance' doesn't hurt Simon Cowell. If anything, you will put even more money into his pocket as there will be many lemmings, I'm sure, who will buy the single more than once in an effort to thwart this particular act of wankery. The only person in any real danger of feeling like he's been kicked in the teeth is Joe. I'm sorry if you think that's me striking a pose of moral superiority. The truth is that I'm just genuinely surprised at the small mindedness of a lot of people over this. I couldn't really give a toss who's at number 1 for Christmas- or any other time of the year, if it comes to that.
In other news, I'm still waiting for you to tell me if you think that Mark Bagley Willy Wonkered his way into comics, or if he just took advantage of a fantastic opportunity to showcase his talent.
Can I just say that I think Simon Cowell is full of wrong.
Did you see the news this morning (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8411387.stm) - he wants to go into politics with an X-factor style show where there's debate on subjects of the week - seriously 'hot' topics - and a BIG RED PHONE.
Abandon thread. Repeat: ABANDON THREAD.
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 14 December, 2009, 11:07:00 AM
Abandon thread. Repeat: ABANDON THREAD.
I agree! But buy my comic first!
Your analogy is entirely fucking spurious, Matt, because I haven't attempted to circumvent the normal means by which one becomes an artist/ achieves popularity/ attains one of the landmark achievements of my profession. I've deployed the standard tools of the trade and worked really fucking hard in order to barely make minimum wage. Next year, there's a distinct possibility that I'll have to go back to doing a proper job, so scarce and so poorly paid is the work.
Do I blame Mark Bagley, or Joe Whatsisface, for seizing an opportunity that's been presented to them? No, of course not. Do I think that it fosters an unhealthy expectation amongst others that you can achieve success with neither hard work nor talent? Yes.
(Note that this does not mean that I think either of those people are without talent.)
On top of that, the prize for winning X Factor is record contract, and all the publicity that winning that competition brings. The prize is NOT having the Christmas No1, because that's not Cowell's to offer. The Christmas No1 is a side-effect and not an automatic right. Cowell is very big on sanctimoniously pronouncing that the "people have spoken" ... well, the people know that there's an alternative movement to get a different record to No1. If they want to be X Factor, they can get off their arses and buy it.
Jim
Is anyone on this thread seriously suggesting that 'Simon Cowell' is a real person? I thought he was a clever guy playing a thoroughly unpleasant character of the same name on a TV show. Sort of like a guest star on Extras, only with more money changing hands. Next you'll be telling me that Rod Hull actually lives in a pink windmill.
And Timson, Campbell, settle down you two, you're both making perfectly sensible opposing points and then getting all angry and misinterpreting each other, which is quite annoying to watch. I know it's nearly the end of term but we still have lessons to do. Don't make me send you to King Trout with a note.
As you wish.
Jim
Oh god, now they'll be coming after me. Every shadow in every doorway could be Eyebrows or Campbell waiting to ambush me with reasoned argument. And Whitby will be forever off limits at least one week a year.
Quote from: TordelBack on 14 December, 2009, 11:37:22 AM
Oh god, now they'll be coming after me. Every shadow in every doorway could be Eyebrows or Campbell waiting to ambush me with reasoned argument. And Whitby will be forever off limits at least one week a year.
Nah, it's when you see Emperor with a spoon that you
really have to worry.
Cheers!
Jim
I think this -
Quote from: His Lordship rac on 14 December, 2009, 10:01:31 AM
Fuck sake lads- it's only the Christmas No1!
- needs repeating.
Quote from: TordelBack on 14 December, 2009, 11:21:19 AM
Is anyone on this thread seriously suggesting that 'Simon Cowell' is a real person? I thought he was a clever guy playing a thoroughly unpleasant character of the same name on a TV show. Sort of like a guest star on Extras, only with more money changing hands. Next you'll be telling me that Rod Hull actually lives in a pink windmill.
And Timson, Campbell, settle down you two, you're both making perfectly sensible opposing points and then getting all angry and misinterpreting each other, which is quite annoying to watch. I know it's nearly the end of term but we still have lessons to do. Don't make me send you to King Trout with a note.
I'm not that angry, actually. I am
slightly disappointed that Jim feels that I am a) slagging his work skills (which would, of course, mean that I'm slagging my
own work skills) and b) doesn't feel the need to even address his error, much less apologise for it- but that's the internet, I guess.
And I know you'd like it to be a spurious analogy, Jim- but it isn't. Joe has
also deployed the standard tools of his trade. The standard has simply
changed in recent years. A performer is no longer confined to the old ways- the same as you are no longer confined to lettering by hand, or I am confined to waiting for paint to dry. I'm sorry if you've interpreted that as some kind of personal attack on your work- but I can't do much more than explain my exact meaning to you.
If you want to continue to have the arse over what is quite literally an
imagined slight, then that's
your problem.
Again, for those incapable of reading properly- I don't actually
care what's at number 1 for Christmas. I literally could not give a
shit. I'm just a bit saddened at the general level of petty spite involved. The best I can hope for right now is that Simon Cowell is behind it all and laughing at you as he rakes in even more cash.
::)
I just heard it--its a bit shit
er..in my opinion
with all due respect
no offense meant
sure he's good at what he does
fair play to him
he IS xmas
praise him
etc
I accept that a combination of haste to take umbrage and the somewhat disconcerting effect of an inner ear infection caused me to read the offending para incorrectly. I accept that you weren't slagging me off, Matt, and I apologize for suggesting that you were.
On the other hand, I stand by this:
QuoteDo I blame Mark Bagley, or Joe Whatsisface, for seizing an opportunity that's been presented to them? No, of course not. Do I think that it fosters an unhealthy expectation amongst others that you can achieve success with neither hard work nor talent? Yes.
Clearly, we disagree on this point. I can live with that and I suspect that you probably can, too.
Cheers
Jim
And THAT'S why this is the greatest place on the net. We DO argue and fall out, but it's sorted out with minimum fuss.
HURRAY!
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 14 December, 2009, 12:15:42 PM
I accept that a combination of haste to take umbrage and the somewhat disconcerting effect of an inner ear infection caused me to read the offending para incorrectly. I accept that you weren't slagging me off, Matt, and I apologize for suggesting that you were.
On the other hand, I stand by this:
QuoteDo I blame Mark Bagley, or Joe Whatsisface, for seizing an opportunity that's been presented to them? No, of course not. Do I think that it fosters an unhealthy expectation amongst others that you can achieve success with neither hard work nor talent? Yes.
Clearly, we disagree on this point. I can live with that and I suspect that you probably can, too.
Cheers
Jim
Fair enough.
And yes, Johnnystress, it
is a shit song.
Plus, we all know it IS cheating when Timson uses a computer.
:-P
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 14 December, 2009, 12:25:04 PM
Plus, we all know it IS cheating when Timson uses a computer.
:-P
Cheers
Jim
It probably
is, actually. I certainly wouldn't be drawing comics if I was still working traditionally- and I don't mind admitting it.
There is no way that I am wading in at this point to say I quite fancy Simon Cowell, I'm not *that* stoopid!
Stacey, imagine him in the iconic green & yellow armour of Johnny Alpha. That's it. You're welcome.
I'm fully confident that lovely Joe will be able to eventually write a song as good as "Bleeding Love".
Quote from: Matt Timson on 14 December, 2009, 12:28:02 PM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 14 December, 2009, 12:25:04 PM
Plus, we all know it IS cheating when Timson uses a computer.
:-P
Cheers
Jim
It probably is, actually. I certainly wouldn't be drawing comics if I was still working traditionally- and I don't mind admitting it.
Fuck that shit.
I spent a few hours yesterday rewriting and editing a script (Corvus, fact fans!) - and could not bloody imagine having to do this by traditional means, ie, with a typewriter. I think there's weight to the arguement that some of us probably wouldn't be doing it- or would certainly be doing it a
lot slower, without our puters.
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 14 December, 2009, 12:29:55 PM
Stacey, imagine him in the iconic green & yellow armour of Johnny Alpha. That's it. You're welcome.
Nah that's not working, he's no Johnny! :-D
I don't mind admitting that I have a fat crush on a fictional comic book character though I am deeply ashamed of slightly lusting over the Cowell machine. I disgust myself.
Anyway, I won't be buying RATM as I already own it and the teeshirt, loved them, but won't be buying X Factor single either. Instead I treated myself to Naked by Reef in a fit of 90's nostalgsia this morning!
You see the evil X Factor causes? Do you?
When it comes down to it, buying the RATM track is in the same vein as when someone flew a hamburger around David Blaine whe he was starving himself in a box; it's the great tradition of taking the piss! And I don't regard it as being spiteful to wee Joe; if it meant he'd be dropped like a stone sooner than timetabled I might feel a twinge. I'm sure he'll have a long and valued career as a singer. :-*
And as predicted, the song is bobbins, so I'm still with De la Rocha block.
M.
I dont even like RATM and never have partly because i dont like the music and partly because i dont particularly like their politics for various reasons.
Anyone who idolises Che Guevera as a hero like RATM needs to educate themselves because they are idolising someone who personally murdered and was directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of political dissidents and men women and children not to mention the rest.
All in the name of Stalinism of course so in that respect RATM can go and Fuck themselves.
Thats the only thing putting me off participating in the RATM campaign.
The young fella concerned just won a huge-rated telly talent show and has a deal and, unlike most other artists, is nationally famous BEFORE that deal. Many of the other contestants will probably get a deal too. Good luck to them, I hope they're talented and hard-working enough to capitalise on it.
Quote from: His Lordship rac on 14 December, 2009, 10:27:40 AMAnd ANYWAY- if you all really wanted to annoy Simon Cowell, you could buy a copy of Turning Tiger: http://www.myebook.com/index.php?option=ebook&id=22822 He'd bloody hate that.
I thought we were buying that to protest about this X-Factor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Factor_(comics)) (and because TT is rather good, of course ;) ). Now I am confused.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 14 December, 2009, 11:39:00 AM
Quote from: TordelBack on 14 December, 2009, 11:37:22 AM
Oh god, now they'll be coming after me. Every shadow in every doorway could be Eyebrows or Campbell waiting to ambush me with reasoned argument. And Whitby will be forever off limits at least one week a year.
Nah, it's when you see Emperor with a spoon that you really have to worry.
I might have to spoon a lot of you and I know no one likes that (no matter your definition of the term).
Quote from: stacey on 14 December, 2009, 12:28:37 PM
There is no way that I am wading in at this point to say I quite fancy Simon Cowell, I'm not *that* stoopid!
I went out with a girl who admitted to having a crush on John Craven :o
Quote from: KevLev on 14 December, 2009, 10:59:43 AM
Can I just say that I think Simon Cowell is full of wrong.
Did you see the news this morning (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8411387.stm) - he wants to go into politics with an X-factor style show where there's debate on subjects of the week - seriously 'hot' topics - and a BIG RED PHONE.
This isnt actually a bad idea at all providing that he isnt being paid to shill for a political party.
If he can get a potential audience of millions into being more interested and debating about politics then with all sincerity i wish him every success with it.
Apart from that its too early to comment but it sounds promising in principle at least but it depends on the topics and who chooses them but it sounds like the type of thing that would make good live television.
Quote from: Peter Wolf on 14 December, 2009, 01:54:11 PM
I dont even like RATM and never have partly because i dont like the music and partly because i dont particularly like their politics for various reasons.
Anyone who idolises Che Guevera as a hero like RATM needs to educate themselves because they are idolising someone who personally murdered and was directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of political dissidents and men women and children not to mention the rest.
All in the name of Stalinism of course so in that respect RATM can go and Fuck themselves.
Thats the only thing putting me off participating in the RATM campaign.
Peter, I would echo your sentiments, there. However, I set that aside and participated as I do like their music.
If Jedward had won, of course, things would be different... ;D
Well I never!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8413557.stm
Quote from: His Lordship rac on 15 December, 2009, 11:11:44 AM
Well I never!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8413557.stm
yeee-haaa! ;D
Quote from: HOO-HAA on 15 December, 2009, 08:34:20 AM
Quote from: Peter Wolf on 14 December, 2009, 01:54:11 PM
I dont even like RATM and never have partly because i dont like the music and partly because i dont particularly like their politics for various reasons.
Anyone who idolises Che Guevera as a hero like RATM needs to educate themselves because they are idolising someone who personally murdered and was directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of political dissidents and men women and children not to mention the rest.
All in the name of Stalinism of course so in that respect RATM can go and Fuck themselves.
Thats the only thing putting me off participating in the RATM campaign.
Peter, I would echo your sentiments, there. However, I set that aside and participated as I do like their music.
If Jedward had won, of course, things would be different... ;D
I am still going to participate anyway regardless i have decided.
I should have said that i am indifferent to their music but to be fair they were still very good at what they did.
Everything to play for now! I must admit I'm a bit energised by the POP BATTLE shaping up but unfortunately it's more like two hideous monsters fighting for the right to eat a baby.
Still, if Joe can't fight off this kind of thing he doesn't deserve the crown. His thing is the standard formula, a middle-number from a musical that never was - probably EVEREST! THE EDMUND HILLARY STORY - which is not only horrifically self-referential but also exactly the kind of thing the Backstreets were doing better back in the nineties. In fact, I'm getting more than a hint of 'Never Forget' in there, but Take That did that as their big farewell and this kid's only just started. It doesn't look good.
The Great British Public like being on the winning side and I've a nasty feeling Joe might end up getting a pasting in the same way a small, weak child with hollow bones might get a pasting off the school bully for not liking Metallica.
35,000 children under the age of five die every day because of things like diarrhea. That's 420,000 dead tots between December 13th and Christmas Day.
Of course, this is as much my fault as anyone else's because I expect cheap goods in the shops and somebody has to suffer because of that. I'm just being grumpy here, you understand, and it isn't my intention to belittle the opinions of music lovers but I simply can't get worked up by pap like this. IMHO, this is not at all important. The Number One Christmas Noise this year, like any other year, is for me completely drowned out by those 420,000 silences caused by the Big Industries, just like the music biz, that we all support.
Just think about it, that's all. (And don't give me any of that Band Aid, charity album crap. Throwing money at the problem never has worked and never will work.)
Rant over. Move along, nothing to see here.
Malign pompossity versus benign animosity eh? A real pleasure. It should have been two tribes by FGTH. But that had its chance with eighties nostalgia.
I feel a little bit unreasonable about being negative about something of which i am not part of its intended audience and i am so removed from it that its irrelevent so in that sense i can just about accept the criticism from Matt Timson that i am being small minded or vindictive.This is because i usually have no interest in what is in the chart.
I don't care, personally about WHAT makes the top spot, I stopped caring about the number one, xmas or otherwise, long before I started shaving.
It's good that we've made something of a noise about it, though. And it's raising a bit of cash for a fine cause too. Good thing.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 15 December, 2009, 03:22:00 PM
35,000 children under the age of five die every day because of things like diarrhea. That's 420,000 dead tots between December 13th and Christmas Day.
Of course, this is as much my fault as anyone else's because I expect cheap goods in the shops and somebody has to suffer because of that. I'm just being grumpy here, you understand, and it isn't my intention to belittle the opinions of music lovers but I simply can't get worked up by pap like this. IMHO, this is not at all important.
Neither is 2000AD, by that standard. And yet here you are.
Point taken. As I said, I'm just being grumpy.
However, it does annoy me when suchlikes as the BBC tout this kind of thing as "news."
True.
We all chat about unimportant things all the time - this place is tailor-made for that sort of thing.
That doesn't mean we don't care/know about important things. But, seeing as most of us are relatively powerless to do much more than bung a bit of cash in a collection box, what can you say other than "Cod, that's terrible" really?
Plus, it's very depressing. I know all about THAT sort of thing, believe me. THere are days when getting out of bed is the hardest thing in the world. Dwelling on the OTHER horrors of the world, the ones I have no contact with myself and no control over, will only make me worse. Selfish maybe, but I think of it as self-defence.
I know, and I'm sorry I hi-jacked the thread with my doom-mongering Scroogery. Still, it wouldn't be Christmas without a miserable old git like me frothing ineffectually in a corner, would it?
I'll get me (threadbare) coat.
Why not research and start a thread about ways to shop ethically over the Xmas period? A little positive action might improve your mood a bit.
Meanwhile, back on topic - Tom just wrote a great article about the whole thing as a clash of narratives and social media marketing strategies.
http://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/12/selling-in-the-name-of/
Entirely unbiased towards either side.
Well I've bought the RATM but know deep down Im still giving that c**t Cowell something to rub his hands about
totally made up and innacurate numbers by way of an example.....
Crappy X Factor single gets to number one every year by selling 100,000 copies
This little nerd war springs up. Cowell says "Come on sheep, dont let those old farts spoil Xmas! Make sure my little pop monkey gets to number one!"
RATM sells 200,000 gets number one
X Factor "only" sells 150,000 to get to number two as 12 year old girls each buy two copies instead of one.
Cowell makes 50% more than he would have if we'd just quietly let the morons get their way. He slips his hand down his pants and laughs at us all.
But all that said.... my quid still went to amazon
Quote from: johnnystress on 14 December, 2009, 12:13:08 PM
I just heard it--its a bit shit
er..in my opinion
with all due respect
no offense meant
sure he's good at what he does
fair play to him
he IS xmas
praise him
etc
Shit! I thought Christ was Christmas? What if Simon Cowell is the second coming? We're all fucked! Just like in the Omen III! Nice Sam Neill was the anti-christ you know?
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 15 December, 2009, 03:45:51 PM
True.
We all chat about unimportant things all the time - this place is tailor-made for that sort of thing.
That doesn't mean we don't care/know about important things. But, seeing as most of us are relatively powerless to do much more than bung a bit of cash in a collection box, what can you say other than "Cod, that's terrible" really?
Plus, it's very depressing. I know all about THAT sort of thing, believe me. THere are days when getting out of bed is the hardest thing in the world. Dwelling on the OTHER horrors of the world, the ones I have no contact with myself and no control over, will only make me worse. Selfish maybe, but I think of it as self-defence.
I no longer get depressed about THAT sort of thing as 5 years of depression was quite enough for one lifetime so i can take all that kind of thing on board without becoming depressed about it.I guess i somehow evolved out of all that but i am not quite sure how plus now i understand the causes only too well and if you understand the causes then it makes it easier to deal with rather than just thinking or asking WHY ?
I fight the forces of darkness and corruption and tyranny using the internet because it gives my life some purpose and meaning rather than just focussing on the self but i will say that you have to be very well grounded in a positive way just to be able to deal with that kind of negativity on a grand scale.
And yes everyone should shop ethically and stop buying all that plastic shit thats made in China and SE Asia for their kids like poisonous plastic Hamsters for example.Buy toys for kids that are made in the UK or at least Europe or the US.There is plenty of choice available if you know where to shop for it.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 15 December, 2009, 03:42:55 PM
However, it does annoy me when suchlikes as the BBC tout this kind of thing as "news."
But it
is news, mate, if we're all talking about it. That's all news is - things that people are interested in hearing and talking about.
The news is a little like trade - it has no ethics. It is what we make it, ourselves.
But I'm just being pedantic, now. Which is
worse than grumpy. :-\
Buy my fucking bands cd instead- the elegantly titled 'Bin Laden's Daughter's Propaganda Machine'by Bin Laden's Daughter.
In doing so, the money will go direct to the artists (as we make the fucking things at home) and utterly bypasses the entire music industry altogether. Safe in the knowledge that you will be helping a struggling band who play more benefit gigs than paid ones- when we do get paid it barely covers travel expenses (except for when we play outside our home town- then it doesn't cover travel) and have been shelling out cash from our own pockets for a few years to keep the 'show on the road'. ;D
Seriously though- I agree that the x-factor pricks are lazy arsed fame seekers looking for a short cut. If they were really interested in making a cd they'd just do it, instead of waiting for some svengali to 'find' their talent. There are shitloads of DIY acts doing their own thing- any fuckwit can make a cd nowadays (and we're living proof), then upload it to some website or other.
I don't care who is Christmas number one or about Simon Cowell- it's utterly irrelevant.
I liked RATM's music- great hard line political lyrics and an utterly original sound- long before 'rap-metal' reared it's stupid head as a genre.
And their-in lies the problem- a 'hard-line Marxist' band? Signed to SONY entertainment?
Most of the people who love this song and RATM in general don't have a fucking clue what it was all about and if they did, it would offend their liberal sensibilities.
'Fuck you I won't do what you tell me' was a popular line because of the sweary bits and it's some 'rebellious' thing to shout at your parents / teachers.
The point is that most of the fuck-wits missed the entire point of what Zak was writing about.
Anyhoo- I won't be buying it as I have pirate copies of all their stuff anyway- fuck giving Sony any money. I'm sure Zak and Tom will understand my position with their anti-capitalist stance...
go download 'Excuses' for free instead...
http://www.4shared.com/file/163514126/c41259d/Excuses_17.html
I heartily recommend them, and I'm sure Johnnystress will too.
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h134/Dog_Deever/AHOY.jpg)
Fuck you, Dog, I won't do what you tell me.
;)
Only messing, man. I'll certainly check your band out! Good luck with it all!
What? And miss out on singing along to 'Terry Wogan's Cock'- seruiously?
Heh!
Good for you Dog, you and many many others. I salute you, true musicians.
What's your hometown so local Squaxx can keep an eye open for you? Website? Come on, pimp it properly!
Any danger of being able to hear a bit of a track by way of tempting one to part with cash?
Quote from: HOO-HAA on 15 December, 2009, 08:34:20 AM
Quote from: Peter Wolf on 14 December, 2009, 01:54:11 PM
I dont even like RATM and never have partly because i dont like the music and partly because i dont particularly like their politics for various reasons.
Anyone who idolises Che Guevera as a hero like RATM needs to educate themselves because they are idolising someone who personally murdered and was directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of political dissidents and men women and children not to mention the rest.
All in the name of Stalinism of course so in that respect RATM can go and Fuck themselves.
Thats the only thing putting me off participating in the RATM campaign.
Peter, I would echo your sentiments, there. However, I set that aside and participated as I do like their music.
If Jedward had won, of course, things would be different... ;D
I support RATM on certain issues but i dont share their enthusiasm for the teachings of Karl Marx for example.
What makes me laugh with them among other things is that they were part of the Stop The War coalition when GWBush was in office and the entire Stop The War coalition were very active then but now that Obama/Democrats were elected you dont hear anything from the Stop The War coalition anymore because:
GWBush/Republicans + War/illegal occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan = BAD WARS
-
Obama/Democrats + War/Illegal occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan = GOOD WARS
::) :-\
So i cant take them that seriously because how can you be in a hardline political band like RATM and not realise the hypocrisy and stupidity of that and not realise that they are 2 sides of the same coin ?
So unless they snap out of it i cant take them seriously but perhaps they have by now as i think they are intelligent enough to work this out. :-\
They all just need to wise up a bit in that respect.
Bin Laden's Daughter are awesome. That is all.
Peter, I'm 100% with you on that, mate!
*presses applause button*
I've just heard the little ditty by Dog Deever's band entitled 'Terry Wogan's Cock' and can confirm it's great :)
Hover over my bits and bobs under my avatar- the one with the picture of the world- it should say 'If you like music DON'T click here'. Clicking it takes you to our myspace, there are links there to our youtube channel- BLD TV with band videos made by the band...
oh fuck it...
http://www.myspace.com/binladensdaughter1 (http://www.myspace.com/binladensdaughter1)- myspace
http://www.myspace.com/binladensdaughter1 (http://www.myspace.com/binladensdaughter1)- youtube
(The uploads are all band stuff, the favourites are other peoples vids we promote coz we like 'em.)
Someone also made a page on last fm- I didn't even know this existed til a few days ago-
http://www.last.fm/music/Bin+Laden's+daughter
My home town is Elgin in Moray- yeah, google it!
The likelihood of any boarders being anywhere near there is remote indeed. However, we are playing at The Phoenix Bar in Inverness on the 23rd of January with some friends from Inverness- The Signal who are also a totally DIY band.
We also have no method of mail order, so buying or stuff is virtually impossible unless you see us at a gig. Which means I've sent out a fair few free cd's to folks from all over the place.
We recently had a DIY syndicate from Utah asking if it was possible for us to play there next year. Of course, it isn't- they have no cash for transport and neither do we. But it was great to be asked. It was also great telling a small but commercial label to fuck off when they wanted to produce our first four track and sell it. £5 for a four track by nobodies? Over my rotting corpse! We produced it ourselves and gave most of it away.
One of our mates said that the best thing about watching us was that you can't shake off the feeling that everything is seconds away from fall apart, which gives it an edge!!!
Dog, I had a quick blast on 'Terry Wogan's Cock' and enjoyed the hell out of it! :D
I'm on a Ramones kick, at the moment, and also downloading a worrying amount of tick-tock-tech punks, Suicide.
Keep up the fine work, man. And don't forget to pop over to Belfast when you're next touring. :)
Cheers, chaps- touring? That's a laugh- two dates in the same month constitutes a tour for us!
We have some friends over in Ireland and it's been a vague plan to play over there once we can fund getting over. It just hasn't happened yet.
Johnnystress has been in a few bands- there are some downloads on an Irish DIY punk blog he may link for you (hint, hint). I recommend 'Stress' and 'The Backhanders' both totally different sounding, and both great if you like a bit of punkass DIY- they're both on my mp3 player.
So yeah- fuck X-factor, get into 2000ad Board bands for a scrotnig xmas...
cue board members band pimpage...
Fucking ace Bruce! You've got your myspace link twice up there mate, for more Bin Laden's Daughter fun on youtube CLICK HERE (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bin+laden's+daughter&search_type=&aq=0s&oq=bin+ladens+da)
So not only can you draw a mean strip for Dogbreath, you can fucking rock man. Terry Wogan's Cock is a miniature masterpiece. :D
This thread has taken a nice "DIY music is best" turn
Good man Dog
Stress in dodgy don't really know the song footage on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8EjSZoInck
Backhanders
a song available here-the whole EP is on the net somewhere though ..i think
http://diyirishhardcorepunkarchive.blogspot.com/
loads of great Irish DIY punk available for download there
Buy RATM- because I'm still hurting over Jedward
Unsure of what to do - I really wanted to do something that might vaguely annoy Simon Cowell bevcaue it's just funny, but I already have the RATM album, which is quite a dull album like most metal - I decided that my personal xmas number one should be So What? by Crass, as it's seasonal in that it is about Jesus. So I downloaded it illegally for free.
I think Steve Ignorant would approve. (it's OK - I have already paid money for Crass songs in the past, including that one as I have the album on vinyl, so that's all fine...)
Early Crass were fucking great- Merry Crassmass, though cheesy, was a good laugh. Think I've still got that vinyl somewhere...
anyway- Johnnystress' Stress demo EP:
http://diyirishhardcorepunkarchive.blogspot.com/2009/04/stress-1st-demo.html (http://diyirishhardcorepunkarchive.blogspot.com/2009/04/stress-1st-demo.html)
I'm still trying to track down the Backhanders ep downloads. I think it was on the now defunct Paddypunk.net site.
Youtube: oops! Stoopid. Cheers, Kerrin- just as well someone has a brain around here! Dog Deever: jack-of-many-trades, master of absolutely nothing!
Must get Ed to upload the Backhanders stuff
out of all the bands i was in I'm happiest with that
current bands excluded ;)
--
on topic
Jedward we will never forget
Incidentally, am I allowed to dislike X Factor on principle even though I have never watched it and have never heard the songs in question as I don't listen to the sort of radio stations that might play Joe Mcthingy?
I wouldn't even know what he looked like or what his name was (I never read any papers, either) if the few forums i post on hadn't been talking about this, so Cowell isn't really having any impact at all on me.
But something about X Factor just by default makes me want to dislike it. And hating Cowell is the 21st century equivalent of hating Stock Aitken and Waterman, isn't it?
Quotecue board members band pimpage...
well, if you insist ;) South Coast Ska-punk at it's most shambolic. Recording quality is crap mind you
http://www.myspace.com/mightysnortinpowderrangers
We're off on tour in the spring, pimpage nearer the time in the unlikely event thus raises any interest x
The Beatles didn't pimp their wares on a website. You scabs are doing it wrong...
8)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8415750.stm
Nice to see Morello is donating some of the cash he makes to charity too.
On another note WTF is Cowell on.
QuoteI think we all have this belief that the Christmas number one was just amazing, a real special occasion, but actually when you look at them over recent years, it was Bob the Builder one year, Mr Blobby...there's a tradition of quite horrible songs.
"I think I've done everyone a favour.
Who the fuck was responsible for Mr Blobby then Mr Cowell? You certainly made money off it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2AYUqVNSsY
Keep watching for the guest appearance by Susan Boyle ...
Cheers!
Jim
That's made my day... Fantastic!
Unbelievable bit of pop sabotage there.
popjustice.com have an alternative to the alternative
50 grand for christmas
http://www.popjustice.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4269&Itemid=206
Can I just further sabotage Bruce by telling everyone he's a diamond. That man can draw, paint, play music and is a stand-up fella to boot.
There's a lot of folks out there could do worse than follow his lead.
Quote from: Bolt-01 on 16 December, 2009, 03:27:10 PM
Can I just further sabotage Bruce by telling everyone he's a diamond. That man can draw, paint, play music and is a stand-up fella to boot.
There's a lot of folks out there could do worse than follow his lead.
I want to add to that comment by saying that when i first joined this place and i was behaving like an idiot at times or most of the time at least i was being subjected to a certain amount of bullying or victimisation despite the fact that some of it was deserved Bruce stood up for me which he didnt have to do but i still appreciated it very much.
I have fallen out with Bruce or more like Bruce fell out with me over conflicting views on politics which was unfortunate but anyone who is willing to stand up for someone they dont know is the definition of a stand up guy so despite clashing with Bruce i bear no ill feeling towards him because of that.
I believe Bruce is a terrible name fora scotsman. I pity him. I will also whip out my proto punk pop sound and see what you all think. In the mean time, merry christmas bruce.. He's a man in a kilt an a cork hat! Eating gaggis by the billa bong...
Well I enjoyed Terry Wogan's Cock more than I thought I would ;)
The YouTube video gets mixed in with clips relating to the whole "Wogan willy" fiasco and I found this clip which isn't of interest itself but the comments are great:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrVYrKu4nWI
RATM were playing it live on FiveLive this morning, and even delayed the 9am news - something only usually allowed to happen for the Prime Minister(!) At the climax they managed to get three lots of "Fuck you" in before being cut off. A disgruntled Shelagh Fogarty insisted they'd been told not to swear and urged us to buy Joe's record now, but it was somewhat predictable that a band singing "I won't do what you tell me" wouldn't, ahem, do what FiveLive had told them(!)
M@
I can't stand that Fogarty. Way too righteous for her own good.
If anyone likes their music on the decidedly Country/Psychedelic side, get your Jah Wobble's over to a little side project of mine:
http://www.myspace.com/theflamsteadthree
Quote from: Banners on 17 December, 2009, 09:33:03 AM
RATM were playing it live on FiveLive this morning, and even delayed the 9am news - something only usually allowed to happen for the Prime Minister(!) At the climax they managed to get three lots of "Fuck you" in before being cut off. A disgruntled Shelagh Fogarty insisted they'd been told not to swear and urged us to buy Joe's record now, but it was somewhat predictable that a band singing "I won't do what you tell me" wouldn't, ahem, do what FiveLive had told them(!)
M@
Man...I laughed at that this morning...how could they not do otherwise. They were great during the interview as well.
I like Fogarty though...
Hooray for technology
Up on youtube already
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzHWMXbPwkY
So there are 800,000 members of the Rage Against The Machine Facebook group, but only about 200,000 sales of the track so far? If anyone's been waiting for a good reason to buy the track, then sales from the link below will count towards the chart, but the profits will go to Shelter. How's that for an incentive?
http://www.recordstore.co.uk/digitaldetail.jsp?productPK=unittest-MAS2NkX1n5jXo2r8qN3IEb-1
Cheers!
Jim
It's on the FiveLive website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00pbq9j#p005n8wp) now. Quite odd - like a tacit approval that Auntie thinks it's okay to shout "Fuck You" at 9am...
M@
"Get rid of it !!"
One of the presenters says at the end !
Goodness gracious me !! What is happening to the BBC ?
Buy Joes records because i refuse to be subjected to that kind of filth and innuendo !
Quote from: Banners on 17 December, 2009, 02:45:26 PM
It's on the FiveLive website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00pbq9j#p005n8wp) now. Quite odd - like a tacit approval that Auntie thinks it's okay to shout "Fuck You" at 9am...
M@
Apparently BBC have a policy of only removing items which are considered liableous.
People on the facebook group are being pursuaded to contact the BBC to compliment them on having RATM on air and they are getting more compliments than complaints the daily mail can generate :D
Quote from: Peter Wolf on 17 December, 2009, 03:00:00 PM
"Get rid of it !!"
One of the presenters says at the end !
Goodness gracious me !! What is happening to the BBC ?
hahahah! ;D
Has the audio made it online, yet? I really need to hear that...
More from Freaky Trigger on this, Xmas chart battles and chart battles in general:
http://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/12/on-chart-battles-and-christmas/
Meanwhile I hear from roving reporter Carsmile Steve that RATM is 40k ahead in sales! It's looking like a shoo-in. I'd have a bit more sympathy for Joe if his song wasn't so weedy, but it is, so I'll be surprised if he can come back from that kind of kicking. RATM's got the advantage of momentum - success will breed greater success as people get on the winning side to be part of this historic chart upset. I predict a landslide, pop fans.
(Obviously at this point my love of chart FITES has won out over my cynicism. Not going to buy either tune, though, they're rubbish and Shelter's got my cash already. Loving all the board-created tunez tho, more please!)
Quote from: HOO-HAA on 17 December, 2009, 03:35:01 PM
Quote from: Peter Wolf on 17 December, 2009, 03:00:00 PM
"Get rid of it !!"
One of the presenters says at the end !
Goodness gracious me !! What is happening to the BBC ?
hahahah! ;D
Has the audio made it online, yet? I really need to hear that...
Yep:
Quote from: johnnystress on 17 December, 2009, 02:13:59 PM
Hooray for technology
Up on youtube already
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzHWMXbPwkY
Wide open to a bit of sampling there I think ;)
Just what I was thinking, Emp.
I've already GOT RATM and don't buy singles as I'm over 12 and have been for far too long.
I was never IN Joe thingy's target demographic anyway, so he's not exactly LOST my sale in that he'd never HAD it.
I've already donated a fiver (wouldn've been more, but I'm brassic park) to Shelter, as I do at this time of year anyway. Next year I'll get in early with my volunteering and avoid the whole sordd affair of christmas.
Heh heh heh. "Getridofit!" :D
I just had a listen to Joe-x Factors Xmas single and its clear that he can sing and i have heard a LOT worse so it wasnt an unpleasent listen but i watched a televised version that included a Black gospel choir which added to it so the recorded version may be different.
I fucking *HATE* that Waitresses song which i heard today though.
The best Xmas song is either Greg Lake - I believe in Father Xmas or whatever its called or Kate Bush - December Will Be Magic Again.
For 29p a pop, don't be surprised if Simon Cowell sinks 10 grand into it himself. I know I would if I was him- just to piss on your chips.
;D
The thought has crossed my mind...but maybe Simon has a good spread bet on the finalists every year, which explains why he's peeved!
M.
Quote from: Matt Timson on 18 December, 2009, 10:05:06 AM
For 29p a pop, don't be surprised if Simon Cowell sinks 10 grand into it himself. I know I would if I was him- just to piss on your chips.
;D
Would be a bit of an own goal if he did. Bulk buying would render the single ineligable for entry into the charts.
Quote from: James S on 18 December, 2009, 10:14:08 AM
Quote from: Matt Timson on 18 December, 2009, 10:05:06 AM
For 29p a pop, don't be surprised if Simon Cowell sinks 10 grand into it himself. I know I would if I was him- just to piss on your chips.
;D
Would be a bit of an own goal if he did. Bulk buying would render the single ineligable for entry into the charts.
OUTRAGEOUS! The man with the deepest pockets should by able to win!
How many copies counts as bulk buying? Don't worry, I wasn't thinking of bulk buying Joe's pap- but I do know a few people that have bought multiple copies of RATM- have they wasted their efforts?
Quote from: Matt Timson on 18 December, 2009, 10:24:10 AM
Quote from: James S on 18 December, 2009, 10:14:08 AM
Quote from: Matt Timson on 18 December, 2009, 10:05:06 AM
For 29p a pop, don't be surprised if Simon Cowell sinks 10 grand into it himself. I know I would if I was him- just to piss on your chips.
;D
Would be a bit of an own goal if he did. Bulk buying would render the single ineligable for entry into the charts.
OUTRAGEOUS! The man with the deepest pockets should by able to win!
How many copies counts as bulk buying? Don't worry, I wasn't thinking of bulk buying Joe's pap- but I do know a few people that have bought multiple copies of RATM- have they wasted their efforts?
Don't think you are _supposed_ to buy more than 3 but I don't see how they have a hope of policing that. There has to be proof of organised bulk buying, which may yet cause the RATM song to be ineligable.
Quote from: Al_Ewing on 17 December, 2009, 04:58:38 PM
I'd have a bit more sympathy for Joe if his song wasn't so weedy, but it is, so I'll be surprised if he can come back from that kind of kicking.
I think that your wee man, Joe, is particularly insipid and, thus, particularly offensive to 'real' people. He looks to me like something that has been built, wired and programmed back stage to be the perfect 'pop star.'
2000AD should do a strip called 'Joe-Bots'. ;D
Yet another article from Freaky Trigger about the bulk-buying issue and how it relates to phone voting and Radiohead's idea for the 'pay want you want' price structure:
http://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/12/in-ragebows-reality-tv-and-a-future-for-the-charts/
Meanwhile, speaking as a fake person I don't feel offended by Joe's song but I do feel a bit bored. I think H-H is pretty close to the truth - Cowell's too inflexible about what pop is or should be, and now that Pete Waterman's given up being the 'out of touch grandad' of these shows he seems to have filled that gap.
(I was a bit astounded to hear Joe's even following the cover version part of the formula - it used to be a Miley Cyrus song. The slight countrification of her version makes it a bit better so of course Joe stripped it out. Oh, Joe!)
I live in South Shields which is Joe's home town. I feel quite happy for a local lad being given a chance. But and this isn't his fault at all, yesterday there was a big signing at HMV in South Shields and there was a big van outside with a poster of Joe with the Angel of the North's wings coming out of his side with "Welcome home our angel of the north" written on it. And I think that's a step too far!
Anyway bulk buying RATM will send more money to Shelter therefore is a GOOD THING though how this affects chances of no 1dom I do not know.
If I was on X-Factor I would totally do a cover version of THIS!
http://www.last.fm/music/The+Free+Design/_/2002+-+A+Hit+Song
Subversive AND groovy!
Quote from: Al_Ewing on 18 December, 2009, 05:03:18 PM
I was a bit astounded to hear Joe's even following the cover version part of the formula...
Wasn't that song only released last year, or something?
Oh, and forumlaic?! Don't tell me - there's a key change for the last chorus, isn't there? :(
Finally contributed to this massive 'fuck you' to Beelzebub Cowell.
I'm only buying it once mind, no way am I buying it from every possible retailer just to make a millionaire just a little less rich.
I don't mean 'formula' as in 'MIDDLE EIGHT - KEY CHANGE!' although there's still plenty of that going on - it's more the idea that Cowell has a certain rigid idea of what a good pop 'personality' looks and sounds like. It's hard to believe that this is the man who created Girls Aloud - these days the products of his hit factory sound more like Pete Waterman's nowhere group One True Voice.
Quote from: Christov on 18 December, 2009, 09:15:41 PM
Finally contributed to this massive 'fuck you' to Beelzebub Cowell.
I'm only buying it once mind, no way am I buying it from every possible retailer just to make a millionaire just a little less rich.
[/quote
... or make a band of millionaires a little more rich.
(just saying!)
Mind you, I hear RAGE are donating the proceeds to Shelter. :D
Quote from: Al_Ewing on 18 December, 2009, 05:21:02 PM
If I was on X-Factor I would totally do a cover version of THIS!
http://www.last.fm/music/The+Free+Design/_/2002+-+A+Hit+Song
Subversive AND groovy!
That's the kind of music I imagine you playing at your pad when you entertain the ladies.
Quote from: Matt Timson on 18 December, 2009, 09:49:00 PM
That's the kind of music I imagine you playing at your pad when you entertain the ladies.
Every day is a two-for-one special at Al Ewing's Emporium of Lurrrve, you know ...
Cheers
Jim
Actually more like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP4tj7mdLdU
You must have them queuing round the block!
:lol:
Noticed, today, that some trashy paper had Joe throwing darts at a picture of RAGE's Zack, saying silly things like 'I don't know how anyone can listen to that...'
ACHTUNG! :'(
I believe the charts are being unveiled as we speak - it has been a while since I've bothered looking at them. In at 32 is Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen and the Muppets - I do worry about the state of the world.
Anyway the song seems to have been the best selling download at most shops but the important thing is that it appears to have raised £60,000 for Shelter, which is not too shabby for a bit of Internet silliness. I'd not object to doing something like that every year, get your nominations in early as I think with a bit of thought we could come up with something a little less... predictable.
I'd not object to:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBDNUgLu1kY
Heh- Cheers Emperor. S'hard to see, but at the end of that vid I'm playing guitar with a leek instead of a plectrum.
We couldn't find a fish.
Quote from: Dog Deever on 20 December, 2009, 05:37:17 PM
Heh- Cheers Emperor. S'hard to see, but at the end of that vid I'm playing guitar with a leek instead of a plectrum.
We couldn't find a fish.
Now that's what I call rock and roll!!
I do hope when you get to the Xmas #1 slot next year that you will have found a fish in time for your appearance on Top of the Pops.
Also these are the leaked charts and so far the announced positions correspond to this (and yes it appears Cheryl Cole is in the top twenty twice!! The X-factor factor seems to be paying off for everyone involved):
1 KILLING IN THE NAME RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE 502672
2 THE CLIMB JOE MCELDERRY 450838
3 BAD ROMANCE LADY GAGA 61677
4 THE OFFICIAL BBC CHILDREN IN NEED MEDLEY PETER KAY'S ANIMATED ALL STAR 52605
5 STARSTRUKK 3OH3 FT KATY PERRY 40742
6 YOU KNOW ME ROBBIE WILLIAMS 38435
7 3 WORDS CHERYL COLE 36232
8 RUSSIAN ROULETTE RIHANNA 34094
9 DON'T STOP BELIEVIN' JOURNEY 33337
10 MEET ME HALFWAY BLACK EYED PEAS 32517
11 TIK TOK KESHA 26571
12 YOU ARE NOT ALONE X FACTOR FINALISTS 2009 24404
13 DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING ALICIA KEYS 23415
14 DECEMBER SONG (I DREAMED OF CHRISTMAS) GEORGE MICHAEL 22243
15 LET THE BASS KICK IN MIAMI GIRL CHUCKIE & LMFAO 21556
16 MORNING AFTER DARK TIMBALAND/NELLY FURTADO/SOSHY 19687
17 FIGHT FOR THIS LOVE CHERYL COLE 18859
18 FAIRYTALE OF NEW YORK POGUES FT KIRSTY MACCOLL 18457
19 WHATCHA SAY JASON DERULO 18278
20 LOOK FOR ME CHIPMUNK FT TALAY RILEY 17775
Nice to see the Pogues back in the charts again - they seem to have their placeat the table booked each year.
And yes there is indeed a band called LMFAO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMFAO_(band)) - the irony being that the name isn't amusing in any shape or form.
Well done gaywads. You have succeeded in staving off fatal inertia in your meaningless lives for a few minutes. Why not congratulate with some pictures of Zack De La Rocha without a shirt on so you can have a lovely wank?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa6z5yNGUPw
FUCK YOU COWELL
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh God...
This means we're going to end up with thousands of facebook pages set up by record companies pretending to be music fans who want to get specific songs to the top of the charts next year, doesn't it?
Quote from: M.I.K. on 20 December, 2009, 07:08:19 PM
Oh God...
This means we're going to end up with thousands of facebook pages set up by record companies pretending to be music fans who want to get specific songs to the top of the charts next year, doesn't it?
Not likely. I infected all the MP3s of KItM with canceraids so everyone will be dead next year. Joke is on you.
Quote from: Roger Godpleton on 20 December, 2009, 07:19:52 PM
Not likely. I infected all the MP3s of KItM with canceraids so everyone will be dead next year. Joke is on you.
KItM ? Kittens in the Microwave ?
Fuck you I won't do what you tell me.
Looks like everyone who bought the download did.
V
Quote from: James S on 20 December, 2009, 07:39:20 PM
Quote from: Roger Godpleton on 20 December, 2009, 07:19:52 PM
Not likely. I infected all the MP3s of KItM with canceraids so everyone will be dead next year. Joke is on you.
KItM ? Kittens in the Microwave ?
Oh come on you know what he's like - it is really Kittens in the Mittens (http://www.embroiderybarnyard.com/kittens%20in%20mittens.jpg).
Quote from: vzzbux on 20 December, 2009, 07:51:40 PM
Fuck you I won't do what you tell me.
Looks like everyone who bought the download did.
V
I brought the download. I wasn't told to though. Merely a request.
Quote from: Emperor on 20 December, 2009, 08:09:18 PM
Oh come on you know what he's like - it is really Kittens in the Mittens (http://www.embroiderybarnyard.com/kittens%20in%20mittens.jpg).
Ahhhh! Ahhhhh! My eyes! The goggles do nothing!
Quote from: TordelBack on 20 December, 2009, 08:37:02 PM
Quote from: Emperor on 20 December, 2009, 08:09:18 PM
Oh come on you know what he's like - it is really Kittens in the Mittens (http://www.embroiderybarnyard.com/kittens%20in%20mittens.jpg).
Ahhhh! Ahhhhh! My eyes! The goggles do nothing!
Sorry but you'd be surprised by the complete lack of images to illustrate "Kick in the Minge", which is probably getting closer to the Roger's true meaning of the acronym.
Kick her in the minge? Shurely shom misteake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZcWi6wEbG0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZcWi6wEbG0)
Quote from: vzzbux link=topic=27087.msg478992#msg478992 date=1261338700
Looks like everyone who bought the download did.
/quote]
No. You're right. We could all have been individuals, not all acted as one, not derailed a corporate juggernaut, put a shouty, sweary song in at Christmas No1 where Simon Cowell wanted to install his simpering Geordie puppet mouthing a Miley fucking Cyrus song, and raised about £70,000 for shelter into the bargain (not including the money that the band has now said that they will contribute to the same charity).
From my perspective, however, that looks like a result. YMMV.
Cheers
Jim
Cowell and Joe are performing cocaine fueled mass drive-bys on the homeless as we speak. You people just had to push him just that little bit too far. You know that nice young man who sold you a Big Issue the other week? Dead. And it's your fault. Well done.
What the FUCK is going on with those quote tags? When I picked up that message to correct, the BBCode looks correct. When the post is displayed, it's fucked up.
Bah!
Jim
Don't get me wrong I wasn't having a go I was just pointing out the irony in it all. I for one would like to see the Cowell phenomenon crushed.
V
Quote from: vzzbux on 20 December, 2009, 11:11:56 PM
Don't get me wrong I wasn't having a go I was just pointing out the irony in it all. I for one would like to see the Cowell phenomenon crushed.
And we really, really, pissed off Cheryl Cole. :-)
Cheers!
Jim
Quote from: Emperor on 11 December, 2009, 03:43:44 PM
The song, from Rage Against The Machine's debut album, was seemingly chosen as it builds to a furious chant of "F*ck you, I won't do what you tell me".
Which is a bit of lovely irony, seeing as how everyone is being told to vote for the song...
Quote from: locustsofdeath! on 20 December, 2009, 11:15:30 PM
Which is a bit of lovely irony, seeing as how everyone is being told to vote for the song...
FFS. No-one is being TOLD to vote for the song. Essentially, the question was asked, via the medium of Facebook, "Are you getting a little bit nobbed off with X Factor essentially pre-booking the Christmas No1 slot and then simply installing Generic Singer plus Pop Song #23 into that slot?" If so, there's a relatively easy way to stop it, but it requires about 500,000 people to buy a
different song. Doesn't matter what it is, but it kinda does have to be the
same track.
Even the concept of anarchy allows for people to be organized in common cause, it just rejects the idea of leaders installed as our betters, exercising a God-given right to tell us what's best for us.
Cheers
Jim
It's all over! Pop has lost the music wars and we are now in for a new era of Rockism! I am transmitting this message from a concrete bunker ten miles beneath the earth etc etc
(Actually I'm secretly pleased at the result as, like Ben Grimm turning into a hideous orange monster, it might be a tragedy but it's more interesting this way and it's a better alternative than Simon Galactus eating the planet. Or something.)
What about next year? Surely X-Factor won't give up? Has 'real music' shot its most powerful bolt and will Cowell retaliate with a cover version of KITN by a choir of twentysomethings with dreams? What will this mean for Christmas No.1 compilation CDs? How is The Machine going to take it? Will it be offended? Will Joe get to number one next week instead? (Yes.) Will marketing firms take the lessons of this campaign on board? Will a lot of posh hipsters pretend this was a victory against posh hipsters? (Also yes.) Will this make next year's Christmas number one as exciting or have we spunked all our chart-related metaphorical jizz away this year? And what about Lady Gaga?
We're through the looking glass here, people!
Quote from: Al_Ewing on 20 December, 2009, 11:29:26 PM
We're through the looking glass here, people!
I'll confess to rather liking the suggestion from VIZ: next year everyone buys Joe's track off the internet and makes
that number one at the expense of the new winner ...
Cheers!
Jim
Pop did eat itself.
So where do we go from here?
Is it down to the lake I fear?
Maybe try to get Iron Maiden to No1 for next year. Hell they did it on their own with "bring your daughter to the slaughter".
V
Best Christmas number one since 'Ernie (The Fastest Milkman in the West)' by Benny Hill in 1971.
I feel sorry for poor Joe, weeping into his sprouts and thinking everyone hates him, just because he's Simon Cowell's sex bitch.
Pity poor Joe.
- Trout
Well, it might be too late but the Pet Shop Boys are MY number one. If only I'd bought their awesome Christmas EP sooner! They might have got to number 39.
Fuck You they all did what they were told to !
What are Journey doing at No 7 or 8 in the charts ?
They should have been number 1.
Quote from: Peter Wolf on 21 December, 2009, 12:54:38 AM
What are Journey doing at No 7 or 8 in the charts ?
There was a facebook group for them too.
So two facebook entries in the charts and Cheryl Coal miner's daughter's got two entries in there. Who's better off? I hope it all goes the way of the contempory art bubble.
So we did what they told us!
As for that Journey song - am I the only person who thinks it's utterly mediocre? Plus, it's pretty old too. I sort of wonder why it is that it suddenly started popping up here, there and everywhere lately.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 20 December, 2009, 11:27:29 PM
Quote from: locustsofdeath! on 20 December, 2009, 11:15:30 PM
Which is a bit of lovely irony, seeing as how everyone is being told to vote for the song...
FFS. No-one is being TOLD to vote for the song.
Ah Jim, I was just taking the piss. There is only one song I was worried about - and that the goddamn song that has the lyrics "with my hand on my heart/heart in my hand..." or something like that for the chorus. I love that song but can't seem to find out the name of it or the artist that performs it!
Next year, I say we go a step further and set up a facebook page for the Black Metal band Impaled Nazarene. Let's see how far we can take this...
A Christmas song for next year might be nice and yer nah, festive like. Which would make a nice change.
:D
I don't 'do' music in any way, shape or form- don't buy it, don't listen to it, certainly don't download it, etc, but even I am secretely pleased at this. Though I'm convinced that all it did was shovel cashdrifts of wonga into the accounts of Mr Simon Cowell and Sony BMG, even an old curmudgeon like me can see that at least SOME of it went to Shelter- which is fab. Well done. Hate the song (which I think I've heard in a club a few times), hate the band, but hated that XFactor child too.
But- It just seems SO middle-class, predictable and wanky to go to FACEBOOK and chose a song to "derail" Cowell just because it has a chanty "fuck you" in the chorus. I'd've gone for Anal/Cunt or Gary Glitter, for maximum effect. Imagine that- Cowell beaten to the xmas number one by a convicted paedophile. "I think everyone who downloaded this track should be on the sex-offenders register" says Cowell. The Sun Says: "Shop Your KillJoy Paedo Neighbour!", etc. THAT would have been marvellous to see.
SBT
Quote from: locustsofdeath! on 21 December, 2009, 07:58:40 AM
Next year, I say we go a step further and set up a facebook page for the Black Metal band Impaled Nazarene. Let's see how far we can take this...
hahah! :D Cradle Of Filth might be a festive oddity, also. Or Rotting Christ.
Huzzah! like all revolutions we will now see those who brought victory from the jaws of defeat squabble and fight over the baubbles...
Have to say when the news came over the radio we were all sitting at the tea table and the entire Huff family spontaniously cried YES! at the same time...and for that I'm well and truely grateful
Ugh! Twitter and Facebook feeds- along with a large proportion of forums that I frequent- have all been rife with self congratulatory back-slapping, "we did it!" type posts this morning.
Did what, exactly? Managed to find half a million people that haven't got anything better to do than bring other people down? Check. Made Slimon Cowell richer than ever (because you'd have to be simple if you think, even for a minute, that people weren't buying extra copies of Joe's effort)? Check. Unfairly elevated what can easily be argued an equally undeserving song to the number 1 spot, without once reflecting on the irony of what you were doing? Check. Went out of your way to participate in a deliberate act of spite against somebody who's never done you any harm (and for the less capable of you out there, your real victim- for want of a better word- is Joe McFlurry, not Slimon Cowell- although it's ok, actually, because he didn't get famous the 'proper way' and deserves everything he gets ::))? Check. Prove that you can be herded like sheep? Check.
Well done.
And just so that we're all on the same page- I think that the X-Factor is largely rubbish (in particular, I dislike the way that the mentally unbalanced are paraded before us for amusement) and that this year's song was even more pap than usual- I just hate the mentality that's gone into this campaign- that it takes the enjoyment of being a deliberate pain in the arse to motivate people into giving to charity (and how many of you bleating on about the charity aspect regularly give anything else, I wonder? How many of you would have bothered on this occasion if it hadn't been to spite Slimon Cowell and his crap show?).
Serious question: how many of you would you have rushed out to buy Joe's single if the profits were going to Shelter and the RATM campaign hadn't been launched at all? Be honest with yourselves, now. I'm not saying that you should've gone out and bought it if that was the case, but if you know that you definitely wouldn't have done, please stop using the charity angle as an excuse to act like a fourteen year old.
For me, personally, I'm pleased that Shelter got a few shekels out of it- but that's about it. I think the rest is all pretty embarrassing, actually- but your mileage, as has previously been noted, may vary.
:thumbsup:
What is good about all this is that WE THE PEOPLE can organise and choose any song we feel like and buy it in large enough numbers and get it in the charts instead of the charts at Xmas time being dominated by record company release schedules with Shite like Lady GaGa.
We dont need to spend cash on publicity and advertising either because we can do it for free so this is like reclaiming the charts.
Quote from: HdE on 21 December, 2009, 03:40:36 AM
So we did what they told us!
As for that Journey song - am I the only person who thinks it's utterly mediocre? Plus, it's pretty old too. I sort of wonder why it is that it suddenly started popping up here, there and everywhere lately.
I like it because i like soft rock or AOR but that song wasnt suited to a 20 year old English kid singing it though.
I dont get why its "middle class" or predictable etc to choose KITNO with or withoput the help of FACEBOOK when its apparently not middle class or predictable to choose Anal Cunt or Gary Glitter.Why choose Gary glitter or Anal Cunt ?
Nothing to do with swearing or offensiveness or paedophillia but because they are great songs !
Nothing more than that .
What ?? Hypocrisy ?
Never !!
Why not choose a track that doesnt have any swearing or intentional irony in it that isnt getting at anyone for next year ?
Peter: Are these the Nazis, Matt?
Matt: No, Peter, these men are nihilists. There's nothing to be afraid of.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 20 December, 2009, 11:35:29 PM
I'll confess to rather liking the suggestion from VIZ: next year everyone buys Joe's track off the internet and makes that number one at the expense of the new winner ..
Nice one.
Elsewhere, I'm pleased to see that:
a) both Cowell and Joe have accepted defeat graciously (although doing anything else would only hurt them)
b) Cowell has offered the organisers of the campaign jobs- but they turned him down.
Quote from: Proudhuff on 21 December, 2009, 01:59:30 PM
Peter: Are these the Nazis, Matt?
Matt: No, Peter, these men are nihilists. There's nothing to be afraid of.
Sorry. This makes no sense to me- no matter how much I try to slow my mind down.
Well done, Cowell then. That's the mark of a decent fella.
I've long felt that his persona of grumpy so-and-so is something he puts on to manipulate the media. And which works.
Quote from: stacey on 21 December, 2009, 09:04:21 AM
A Christmas song for next year might be nice and yer nah, festive like. Which would make a nice change.
:D
I think so. For some reason the idea that popped into my head was "Slaine's Yule Song" - make it happen Mr Mills and summon the mayor for his opinion.
However, if that doesn't work I could go with Charlie Brooker's suggestion:
QuoteI can't help thinking we could've organised a slightly better protest ourselves. Chances are the X Factor will try to kick back extra hard next year – perhaps by actually releasing a song with a melody in it – so it's best to start planning the resistance now.
The temptation might be to pour a lot of time and effort into creating a catchy anti-X Factor anthem, but the smartest counter-move would be to release something short, cheap and throwaway that isn't even a proper song at all. I propose a track called Simon Cowell: Shit for Ears, which consists of a couple of eight-year-olds droning the phrase "Simon Cowell, shit for ears" four times in a row in the most deliberately tuneless manner possible. It should last only about 15 seconds or so. Quick enough to register; brief enough not to outstay its welcome.
Then we release it online at the lowest price possible. What's the bare minimum you can charge and still be eligible for a chart position? It could be as little as 2p. Because the track is just recorded on to a cheap mic, and released without the assistance of any record label, 100% of the profits go to charity.
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/dec/21/charlie-brooker-rage-against-the-machine
Freaky Trigger does the post-match commentary:
http://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/12/rage-vs-x-factor-winners-and-losers/
"Before dabbing your eyes over Joe's lost dreams, it's worth noting that if he'd sold as many as Alexandra did with "Hallelujah" last year, he'd have been #1, Rage or no Rage."
Quote from: Al_Ewing on 21 December, 2009, 04:49:12 PM
"Before dabbing your eyes over Joe's lost dreams, it's worth noting that if he'd sold as many as Alexandra did with "Hallelujah" last year, he'd have been #1, Rage or no Rage."
Indeed, and if about 20% of the people who voted for him had actually bought the single, he'd have had one the biggest No1 singles of all time. So X Factor's not
really all about the music, eh, Simon?
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Al_Ewing on 21 December, 2009, 04:49:12 PM
Freaky Trigger does the post-match commentary:
http://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2009/12/rage-vs-x-factor-winners-and-losers/
"Before dabbing your eyes over Joe's lost dreams, it's worth noting that if he'd sold as many as Alexandra did with "Hallelujah" last year, he'd have been #1, Rage or no Rage."
This is true. The fact is, it's not a patch on last year's offering- and I didn't buy that either. In fact, it's probably one of the most tediously dull songs I've ever only half listened to.
QuoteDid what, exactly? Managed to find half a million people that haven't got anything better to do than bring other people down? Check...
Oh, I have plenty of things to do Mat! It's all about time management ;)
As I 've said before, for me and I suspect a lot of people this was an act of
taking the piss. And as the X Factor song says'...sometimes you have to lose'.
I don't really care about the benefit that Shelter got from it, more that I felt it was a
fun thing to do. It amused me to prevent something all to predictable happening and I used to like RATM. Yes, it may be an 'underserving' song, hell there are better RATM tracks IMO, but I would genuinely rather hear that than some crap pop that for me doesn't convey
anything. If the campaign used a song/group I didn't like, I wouldn't have bought it.
I'm a Leonard Cohen fan, went to see him earlier this year, and I liked the Alexandra Burke version of 'Hallelujah'. I think Will Young has made pretty decent pop records; my point is that I don't care who makes the money or how I get to hear it if I think it's good.The X Factor song is bobbins.
Reminds me of the time when 'Stan' was out, I overheard some chin stroking muso types giving off because Bob The Builder was likley going to be #1 - for that one I was with Bob block, it was for the kids at xmas FFS.
M.
One of the comments on Al's link made a good point too.
"The supposed "point" of The X Factor, as I understand it, is to unearth a hidden talent who has something special or different about them (the aforesaid "X Factor")."
But the judges insist on picking solo artists who are as plain as porridge. This is my main beef with that program.
In an ideal world, Cowell And The C***s would realise this and turn the program into a genuine search for new talent. But there's probably not as much money in that.
Quote from: Mikey on 21 December, 2009, 05:11:50 PM
If the campaign used a song/group I didn't like, I wouldn't have bought it.
Then I reckon you'd have been a rare man out of 500k, Mikey. Perversely, I
do like the track- and even owned it at one time (it probably disappeared with an ex), but I wouldn't have bought it on general principle. I might buy it now though.
;)
Quote from: uncle fester on 21 December, 2009, 05:27:05 PM
One of the comments on Al's link made a good point too.
"The supposed "point" of The X Factor, as I understand it, is to unearth a hidden talent who has something special or different about them (the aforesaid "X Factor")."
But the judges insist on picking solo artists who are as plain as porridge. This is my main beef with that program.
In an ideal world, Cowell And The C***s would realise this and turn the program into a genuine search for new talent. But there's probably not as much money in that.
You sir, as the cool kids so often say elsewhere, have just won the internet.
Every year when these dire, vicious and nasty little shows air, I generally catch some fleeting glimpse of somebody who makes me sit up and say 'WOW! THEY'RE GREAT!' - and I'm talking really genuine talents here.
And who wins?
And how long does the winner have a career for, generally speaking?
I hate the X Factor and everything on TV that even smells like it. I hate the dishwater dull rubbish they stick under our noses, I hate the ideas it puts forward about people's worth and how they should be criticised.
I don't even like Rage Against The Machine all that much, and I find the idea of a profanity-laden Xmas number 1 pretty distatseful. But if it wakes people up to the fact that there's better stuff than the bilge the X Factor is pushing, I'm well on-side with it!
Quote from: Matt Timson on 21 December, 2009, 02:45:13 PM
Quote from: Proudhuff on 21 December, 2009, 01:59:30 PM
Peter: Are these the Nazis, Matt?
Matt: No, Peter, these men are nihilists. There's nothing to be afraid of.
Sorry. This makes no sense to me- no matter how much I try to slow my mind down.
The Big Lebowski.
Quote from: His Lordship rac on 21 December, 2009, 06:14:13 PM
Quote from: Matt Timson on 21 December, 2009, 02:45:13 PM
Quote from: Proudhuff on 21 December, 2009, 01:59:30 PM
Peter: Are these the Nazis, Matt?
Matt: No, Peter, these men are nihilists. There's nothing to be afraid of.
Sorry. This makes no sense to me- no matter how much I try to slow my mind down.
The Big Lebowski.
I fail at movies.
Next Years xmas number should be a Kunt and The Gang ditty.
Quote from: uncle fester on 21 December, 2009, 05:27:05 PM
One of the comments on Al's link made a good point too.
"The supposed "point" of The X Factor, as I understand it, is to unearth a hidden talent who has something special or different about them (the aforesaid "X Factor")."
But the judges insist on picking solo artists who are as plain as porridge. This is my main beef with that program.
In an ideal world, Cowell And The C***s would realise this and turn the program into a genuine search for new talent. But there's probably not as much money in that.
Given the fact that Cowell and that little Irish guy and whoever else is involved its all subject to subjectivity or taste but they obviously have some kind of remit that they are working to .
Its light entertainment so all you can expect is blandness so i am not sure why anyone would expect anything else form X Factor but if you are i think you are either looking in the wrong place or expecting too much because its quite clearly formulised.
Simon Cowell probably isnt that concerned about finding genuine new talent either because of this as its all about viewing figures and ratings and keeping the fanbase happy.X Factor never was meant to be about music as its just light entertainment that involves music and this means that i could make snide comments about the lowest common denominators and all that but i wont because i find it easier to just completely ignore it altogether.
I'm going to buy the speedboat that hit Kirsty MacColl and mow down all of RATM with it.
Quote from: Roger Godpleton on 21 December, 2009, 10:24:37 PM
I'm going to buy the speedboat that hit Kirsty MacColl and mow down all of RATM with it.
Really?
That would make an interesting youtube moment, or two...
Smells like teen spirit for christmas no one,twenty ten. It'd wind up ALL stretcops. Boy!ee
Quote from: Roger Godpleton on 21 December, 2009, 10:24:37 PM
I'm going to buy the speedboat that hit Kirsty MacColl and mow down all of RATM with it.
Gosh, you're so outrageous.
Quote from: His Lordship rac on 21 December, 2009, 11:27:08 PM
Gosh, you're so outrageous.
Life on the edge, mate. On the fucking
edge!Cheers
Jim
Quote from: His Lordship rac on 21 December, 2009, 11:27:08 PM
Quote from: Roger Godpleton on 21 December, 2009, 10:24:37 PM
I'm going to buy the speedboat that hit Kirsty MacColl and mow down all of RATM with it.
Gosh, you're so outrageous.
Can you hold on for a few months until one of your wares is published so I can come back with something along the lines of "That's rich* coming from the guy who wrote "[Insert adequately mundane line here]""?
I read the first post in this thread, saw that it concerned X Factor and ignored it from then on. Tonight I see the huge page count and think "Fuck me, all that, must be some entertaining thread drift amongst that lot" and dived in.
Turns out not so much. Pretty much on topic all the way. Amazing.
One thing that has surprised me about the whole thing, bearing in mind that I've had very little interest in it, is that the song in question, the one sung by this Joe fella, is a cover of a song that was in the top 10 THIS YEAR. For all I know it could still be hanging on at the bottoom fringes of the chart.
Are we really so bereft of songs that we're resorting to covering stuff the same year as the original? That alone seems wrong to me.
For the record, I like the song. I don't like it sung by this bloke, who pretty much murders it, but I like the original.
The days of pearly spencer. A much overlooked classic this time of year.
These 'talent shows' (and I use the term loosely) are fine for discovering genuine singers such as Paul Potts & Susan Boyle - say what you want of her, but the woman can sing.
Yet, much like Big Brother which inflicts these obnoxious, fame-hungry parasites upon us X-Factor produces cutsey, flavour-of-the-week tweens aimed solely at 14-year old girls and their over-sexed mothers.
Somewhere, Bill Hicks is spinning in his grave.
Sorry if this has already been posted and I missed seeing it, but it's a thing of beauty and had to be shared:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11AhJ0EvI_0
Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good night
Robin
That is an excellent version and so festive ;)
Nice one Robin, there's a career to be forged by rejigging metal and hip hop classics in that insipid style, like that twat who produced Andy Whinehouse (pick a style, make everything sound the same - such an easy formula).
Song still sucks.