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I've found this idea to be interesting, mainly because I don't believe John Wagner had predicted its success, therefore, hadn't thought it was a topic that would need to be dealt with. In order to keep with the series' unique aspects i.e. characters age in real-time, eventually Judge Dredd as a character would have to die, right?

I don't like the thought of that, either.  :)

Perhaps the series itself would continue via 'lost files' or something, but the question does remain, what possible storyline could do it justice? (no pun intended)

Anyway, what I wrote ISN'T a serious ending - it's a short story, and it's more tribute to the character with some speckles of dry wit thrown in. If you want to mention points for improvement, feel free - I'd like to know what you honestly think. 

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10484651/1/The-Death-Of-Dredd (https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10484651/1/The-Death-Of-Dredd)

But... how would you think this topic will be dealt with, or should be dealt with? Drama, action, disgrace, lack of confirmation of his death - all are themes that come to mind for me. What kind of ending would you want to see in the comic?

I mean, there is also this ending... (not drawn by myself)
http://www.deviantart.com/art/Gone-Fission-217239600 (http://www.deviantart.com/art/Gone-Fission-217239600)

My hope* is that when John Wagner retires he will write 'the final episode of Judge Dredd', perhaps prog-length, or even just a regular six-pager - which would work in a manner very similar to that of Alan Moore's Superman story 'Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?' - an 'imaginary tale' that signals the end of an era. Then we immediately push the reset button and carry on as normal the following week.

It would be drawn by Carlos, obvs.

*I like to believe that the script is already written, and will be published at the appropriate time (not that I actually want John Wagner to ever retire, of course!

Quote from: radiator on 27 August, 2014, 12:06:48 AM
an 'imaginary tale' that signals the end of an era. Then we immediately push the reset button and carry on as normal the following week.

Well, we want more Dredd. xD

But what you say- not that I blame you, but you don't want the death story to be canon in the sense that it affects anything else. How do you propose they get around the "ages in real-time" thing?

Personally, I think it would make more of an impact if it was a proper death, even though the series could continue with flash-backs, or through IDW. xD I think John Wagner's the one to make a statement. He's joked that it would be in his will.

QuoteMy hope* is that when John Wagner retires he will write 'the final episode of Judge Dredd', perhaps prog-length, or even just a regular six-pager - which would work in a manner very similar to that of Alan Moore's Superman story 'Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?' - an 'imaginary tale' that signals the end of an era. Then we immediately push the reset button and carry on as normal the following week.

It would be drawn by Carlos, obvs.

*I like to believe that the script is already written, and will be published at the appropriate time (not that I actually want John Wagner to ever retire, of course!

LIKE!

QuoteBut what you say- not that I blame you, but you don't want the death story to be canon in the sense that it affects anything else.

Well, like the aforementioned Superman story it would be 'canon' if you wanted it to be. Or you could take it as a 'what if?' kind of story.

QuoteHow do you propose they get around the "ages in real-time" thing?

I don't see it as this pressing issue they need to address. Dredd's old - probably around 70, but John Wagner has already stated many times that in Dredd's universe lifespans are a lot longer thanks to medical advances, and he's already had at least one 're-juve' treatment (Dredd, not Wagner so far as I know) - with that kind of narrative hand-waving you could keep it going indefinitely.

What I don't want - and what will never happen - is something like Rico II taking over the mantle of 'Judge Dredd' because A) It's too obvious and fan-fictiony and B) Rico is not the same man as Dredd.

QuoteWell, like the aforementioned Superman story it would be 'canon' if you wanted it to be. Or you could take it as a 'what if?' kind of story.

You know, I'm trying to figure out John Wagner as a person, and I do think he likes to make a statement. My limited impression of him is that he'd want to make something definite. I like what you suggest, but it could be construed as wanting to cater to the audience, keep everyone happy, that kind of thing.

Then again, he did kill off Johnny Alpha, and is trying to recover from that - years later, Wagner said it was a mistake.

QuoteI don't see it as this pressing issue they need to address. Dredd's old - probably around 70, but John Wagner has already stated many times that in Dredd's universe lifespans are a lot longer thanks to medical advances, and he's already had at least one 're-juve' treatment (Dredd, not Wagner so far as I know) - with that kind of narrative hand-waving you could keep it going indefinitely.

From my point of view, the whole idea of the Dredd comic is to address real-life issues in a kind of satirical way - take something to an extreme to make a statement. If they did avoid the issue, it would be good for continuity, however, in today's society, older people arguably aren't given the respect they deserve. Considering John Wagner's aging himself, I wonder how he feels about it- being on the receiving end - and whether he would want to make a statement about it. Perhaps there's a way of tackling the issue as well as maintaining the possibility of continuing the comic, without resorting to a "what if" scenario.

[/quote]What I don't want - and what will never happen - is something like Rico II taking over the mantle of 'Judge Dredd' because A) It's too obvious and fan-fictiony and B) Rico is not the same man as Dredd.
[/quote]
Agree! xD

Quote from: dazza1008 on 27 August, 2014, 01:16:09 AM
Then again, he did kill off Johnny Alpha, and is trying to recover from that - years later, Wagner said it was a mistake.

It was Alan Grant who killed off Johnny Alpha; this was after he and John Wagner went solo and split their characters between them.

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 27 August, 2014, 01:53:20 AM

Quote from: dazza1008 on 27 August, 2014, 01:16:09 AM
Then again, he did kill off Johnny Alpha, and is trying to recover from that - years later, Wagner said it was a mistake.

It was Alan Grant who killed off Johnny Alpha; this was after he and John Wagner went solo and split their characters between them.

Oh was it? My mistake, thanks.

Quote from: dazza1008 on 27 August, 2014, 12:00:34 AM
I've found this idea to be interesting, mainly because I don't believe John Wagner had predicted its success, therefore, hadn't thought it was a topic that would need to be dealt with

Wagner has said he has an idea of how to write such a story which he believes he could do in such a way that it wouldn't "hurt the character" (presumably meaning that stories featuring the original version of the character could continue to be published). I imagine that involves the kind of flash forward/hypothetical story scenario described by radiator above, and hopefully not Fog On The Eerie-style time travel and alternative timeline shenanigans.

On a side note, Wagner's a bit vague concerning the part he played in killing John Alpha. He says he must have agreed to it but can't remember doing so, while Alan Grant remembers Wagner wanting to off Alpha much earlier, having grown bored of the strip while their writing partnership was still active. Once they left 2000ad to write for Toxic and US comics, both saw killing Alpha as necessary to prevent other writers ruining the character. Looking at what happened to Dredd, Robohunter, and Strontium Dogs in the nineties, you can see their point.

Wagner won't be allowed to kill Dredd when he hangs up his word processor, but I'm sure Rebellion are aware of the publicity and revenue which the final Dredd story by the character's creator (creators, hopefully) would generate.

After all the ways the character has cheated death something simple would be good, perhaps just slipping away while monitoring traffic. But it could also be a mini-epic set further in to the future. Like Beowolf, a final heroic act of a very old warrior. I don't like replacing him with another clone but if you clone body parts and replace enough of them, at what point does Dredd become someone else anyway? Spirits, like the dark judges, are real and can be captured in the Dredd universe. Perhaps Psi division could capture Dredd in spirit and using dark judges technology (that they left behind after freeing Death and Anderson from Boing) put his spirit in another young clone. But that dodges the epic arc. I guess you can't have it both ways, then again, it's a multi-dimensional universe so I guess you can.

To really kill Dredd give him back to whoever wrote all that terrible stuff in the 90's, the Egyptians and all that tripe. It killed him for me. Now, I'm delighted to say he's re-born, the whole prog is so very good now. So that would be my question, how to keep it this alive, this good..and worth living on, a prog worth reading.

I like the idea of a low key death, but I think I would be ultimately disappointed by that. The big heroic gesture is what is needed - giving his life for the city he loves.

Quote from: sauchie post office on 27 August, 2014, 08:58:40 AM
Once they left 2000ad to write for Toxic and US comics, both saw killing Alpha as necessary to prevent other writers ruining the character. Looking at what happened to Dredd, Robohunter, and Strontium Dogs in the nineties, you can see their point.

Wagner won't be allowed to kill Dredd when he hangs up his word processor, but I'm sure Rebellion are aware of the publicity and revenue which the final Dredd story by the character's creator (creators, hopefully) would generate.

Amazingly; editorial/management allowed Alpha to be offed which says either they didn't care becuase Alpha is not Dredd or a certain degree of artistic autonomy was allowed, or both.



This thread is a bit déjà vu :

http://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php/topic,35801.msg672051.html#msg672051


http://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php/topic,38000.30.html

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 27 August, 2014, 10:01:10 AM
Amazingly; editorial/management allowed Alpha to be offed which says either they didn't care becuase Alpha is not Dredd or a certain degree of artistic autonomy was allowed, or both.

I always got the feeling it was a bit of a "two-fingers-up" at the US comics habit of killing off characters and bringing them back constantly...

Quote from: Pyroxian on 27 August, 2014, 10:08:57 AM

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 27 August, 2014, 10:01:10 AM
Amazingly; editorial/management allowed Alpha to be offed which says either they didn't care becuase Alpha is not Dredd or a certain degree of artistic autonomy was allowed, or both.

I always got the feeling it was a bit of a "two-fingers-up" at the US comics habit of killing off characters and bringing them back constantly...

Editorial at the time did make some funny decisions, I think Tharg may have been raving too hard.

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 27 August, 2014, 10:01:10 AM
This thread is a bit déjà vu :

http://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php/topic,38000.30.html

Ah, there it is. Cheers:

Would John ever kill the character? "Alex Garland suggested I should write the 'Death of Dredd' story and leave it with my will," says John. "But I might write it before though. I might talk to [editorial] about it and see if I can convince them to let me kill him. Whether or not I want to...I don't know. But if he does die, it should be me that writes it. I think I could do it so that it didn't hurt the character. But that would be my worry."

I thought Fargo's speech at the end of Origins was as much John speaking to the readers as it was Fargo talking to Dredd.

As for a Dredd death - I don't know - there's a whole 20 year gap that's barely been covered, but creatively difficult since you know the fates of established characters.

I'm all for Rico II taking up the mantle when Joe shuffles off - haven't most of the the last ten years' storylines hinted at his eventually doing just that? Plus, there's the whole "is evil inherent in the bloodline?" topic - would find himself going the same way as Rico I or Kraken once he's got the weight of Dredd's reputation on his shoulders? Would he carve his own niche as Dredd, or continue to think himself as Rico?

So long as it doesn't tread the path worn by Necropolis, I'd be happy for an established clone with established backstory to step into Dredd's boots.

Gotta be a Carlos/Wager production though, or it doesn't count. I've always refused to beleive that the Final Solution exists, even though it's not a terrible read. Just not the same Stront strip I knew and loved for years.

The more I think about all this, the more I fancy an ending where Dredd goes off the rails (from senility, advanced liberalism, whatever) and forces Rico to shoot him, passing the badge in a final moment of lucidity.  Given the prodigious number of his clone kin (and Chief Judges) that Joe has treated in this fashion, it seems only right.

On another note, when do we get to see the Fargos again?

Quote from: Steve Green on 27 August, 2014, 12:00:15 PM
I thought Fargo's speech at the end of Origins was as much John speaking to the readers as it was Fargo talking to Dredd.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_cmoMeISWzmE/TEOUiPtQmUI/AAAAAAAABdo/T0OhawIRRIg/s320/Fargo+Old.jpg)


I'm more interested in that than how Dredd's life comes to an end. Once he'd succeeded in changing the system which defined him, I'm not sure Dredd would see a place for himself in whatever order had replaced it. That would be the end of the Dredd story, for me.

Can't remember the exact prog...but the story 'The Forever Crimes' - written by one 'John Howard' and drawn by Mr Bolland - made mention of a department known as 'The Vaults' (located in the cellars beneath the Justice Building).  Inside, was a suspended animation chamber - used for 'a very special category of prisoner'.

Maybe Dredd could go out in a blaze of glory...with life-threatening injuries...and then get placed in suspended animation for a future generation to fix up.

As Dredd said;

"Even death is no escape from the law!"

Then he can be re-animated for that Red Razors storyline.  ;)

I second DrRocka's suggestion.  Rico II should be given a go.

As this thread shows old stony face's mortality  is on a lot of fans minds.

My take would be to see Joe an Rico gunned down while on patrol together. Rico takes a head shot, while Dredd gets his body blasted.

Justice department could transplant Joe's head  onto Rico's body, thus retaining a true Dredd personality. Remember this has already been established as doable by Bennett Beeny in the aftermath of America.

While Dredd is recuperating the citizens of MC1 could start a vigil. Reporters could move around interviewing randomly, which could take the form of  old stories from early progs retold from a fresh perspective.

This would be a great jumping on point for new readers. Then when Dredd is back on his feet he would have 70+ years of experience in a younger stronger body.

Talk about badass.

What about he gets shot up and then they rebuild him as part robot, a kind of Robo-cop

Quote from: atp on 27 August, 2014, 02:16:27 PM
While Dredd is recuperating the citizens of MC1 could start a vigil...

Or, more likely, throw a party.

Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 27 August, 2014, 02:22:06 PM

Quote from: atp on 27 August, 2014, 02:16:27 PM
While Dredd is recuperating the citizens of MC1 could start a vigil...

Or, more likely, throw a party.

Oh that would be the perfect final scene.  Dredd dies, either prosaically or heroically, and Chief Judge Beeny makes the solemn announcement to the citizenry that their greatest hero is dead - only to be greeted with the wildest celebration MC-1 has ever seen.  Magnificent.

Dredd should finally take the mantle of 'Chief Judge' and then disband the Justice Department and restore Democracy.

Yeah, Crap idea!

Cheers

Ok. Dredds dead. What now?

Would you re-boot and start again?

I'd be happy to see Joe die, but don't think I'd ever want to continue reading about MC1 without Joe.

If we are treated to such a story, would we finally get to see his face?  That would feel like the ultimate full stop to the strip. Be hard to re-boot it after that....

Quote from: NapalmKev on 27 August, 2014, 04:40:47 PM
Dredd should finally take the mantle of 'Chief Judge' and then disband the Justice Department and restore Democracy.

There's been no indication that Dredd has lost any of his original contempt for Democracy as a way of running things - Day of Chaos prog#1743 - nor does it seem he's on some sliding scale to old-age liberalism; if anything the 70+ year old has proven in his tenure on the streets it's that he's doesn't wig-out quite the way Rico and Fargo did when the black dog-vulture paid a visit. It seems to be that he believes the Law works best when applied to everyone, equally, and without discrimination - be he mutie..alien...cyborg or human...the Law cannot turn a blind eye - and that the real failings of the Law are down to the flaws of the people who administer it.



(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff248/burlearth/DYINGWORDS_zps3f2b598d.jpg)

There's a growing sense after Origins - and set-up earlier in Necropolis - that Dredd is not so haunted by Rico/Fargo's bloodline ghost as much as he once was but he understands more why they - as people - failed as Judges. Dredd is his own man and whatever Fargo's words are leading towards might be something that's not quite Democracy - or at least maybe democracy with a small 'd'. I don't think any 'ending' would be completely resolute - even if he pops his tight boots.