Sponsored by 2000ad in Stages (https://2kstages.github.io/index.html)* - see links below.
Nikolai Dante - more info (https://2kstages.github.io/AtoZ/NikolaiDante/data.html)
VS
ABC Warriors - more info (https://2kstages.github.io/AtoZ/ABCwarriors/overview.html)
Two big thrills in every way here. Both long time regulars in the prog when they were running. Nikolai Dante had a really satisfying ending. ABCs never seemed like it would get out of the rut it was in of cyclic story ideas and then... well has it gone for good now? Will that be the difference in this tie?
Form book - Thrill vanquished to date (in order of round met earliest to latest):
Nikolai Dante: Age of the Wolf; Caballistics Inc; DR & Quinch; Survival Geeks
ABC Warriors: Dead Men Walking; Robusters; Leviathan; Skizz
Round 6 - or "Round of 16" as folks seem to like to call the last 16 these days (?!?) will feature just one thrill a day. I'd like to pretend this is to give these epic thrills more space and time to be commented on... but really it's to buy myself a bit of extra time to plan what comes next!
To Vote Just reply in this thread naming your favourite thrill of these two series at the beginning of your post (or use Bold tags so I can spot it easily) and say what you like about these wonderful stories after that.
Match ends early on the morning of Sunday 21st August and the winner gets a place in the Quarter Finals.
What on Earth is ALL of this? (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48011.0)
For those that need 'um and can be bothered to follow 'um there's some simple rules (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48011.msg1070150#msg1070150)
Any questions, just ask as ever - and have FUN!
*Important Note - this is done with neither permission, or money changing hands (damnit). Apologies for the former, I also meant to do this much earlier but... well ya know how it is...
Nikolai Dante.
Dante
Dante
A.B.C Warriors.
Cheers
A proper heavyweight tie.
So the choice is between an iconic strip from my childhood that is greatly responsible, along with a few others for me reading 2000AD at all, but which went seriously off the boil in later times versus the best example of a long running strip with a beginning, middle and a proper ending. One which along with Dredd and SinDex carried the Prog out of its lowest point into the modern era.
For me the highs in ABC Warriors are higher than Dante, and the lows lower.
I suspect Dante will come through this overall, but I'm voting for Steelhorn coming through the flame barrier to dispatch Marshall Volgod in Prog 127.
So ABC Warriors.
Nikolai Dante.
Both great thrills with amazing high points. Nostalgia says I should vote ABCs, for the mad creativity of the episodic first foray on Mars. For their resurrection in Nemesis. For the insanely exciting art of The Black Hole, and the cheeky apple-cart tipping Khronicles of Khaos.
But this has swung into what I'd like to see in next week's prog, and the answer to that is Nikolai Dante. I think it still has things to say, whereas ABCs has proved it doesn't (unless we were allowed a new writer).
Quote from: Funt Solo on 18 August, 2022, 08:31:42 AM
I think it still has things to say, whereas ABCs has proved it doesn't (unless we were allowed a new writer).
Which, of course, we aren't. However, stay tuned for David Bishop's XYZ Soldiers coming to a prog near you! [spoiler];-)[/spoiler]
XYZ Nuns, shurely.
ABC Warriors
Dante by a mile for me. I adore the parts of ABC Warriors I read as a kid, and the character designs are incredible, and Mek-Quake is the absolute best. It's got a lot of highs, and a lot of lows - I'd agree with Funt that it seemed to run out of things to say and just existed for the sake of it at the end of it's run, and on re-read the Kaos era is a holw lot less clever and funny than teenage me thought it was.
Dante though is off the charts awesome: epic story, proper character arcs and growth, humour and violence. It's not flawless, but it's low points are higher than ABCs and fewer and further between.
Dante every second of the year. ABC was great but overtime it become too repetitive and stale - only the great art of Clint saved it for me.
Dante
Are its highs as high as those of the Warriors? Yes. Are its lows as low as those of the Warriors? Not by a long shot.
ABC Warriors is full of iconic comic book moments (even at its worst) and that might swing it for some, but Dante is just great storytelling.
Dante
Still wish we'd had the fat Dante gone to seed years.
ABC Warriors
Dante
Dante every step of the way.
It's not even close for me. I re-read ABC Warriors in the UC and it was a chore. Even the early stuff didn't hold up that well, but it looked superb and was quirky and stylish enough to see it through. But it after that point it's mostly diminishing returns and copy/paste – the comics equivalent of a repeating background on a cheap cartoon. The most recent runs were just poor.
Nikolai Dante didn't start out a classic and had the odd wobble, but otherwise held together very well across its lengthy run. It's a strip I want to re-read. Moreover, given that I was talking about the UC, it's the strip I was most happy to see fully collected in HC.
ABCs were among my favourites when I was wee, and that was mostly based on their incredible designs and their appearances in Nemesis, because my first taste of the weekly prog was a bin bag full of about 200 issues dropped off by my mum's friend, which were from the late 200s to the late 400s, ie right in between the Warriors' solo series. It would be many years before I finally read those. In fact it was seeing the Best of Monthly with the Black Hole in it that ushered me back to the prog after a few years away, and I adored it. I was absolutely stoked to read the robots were returning for Hellbringer (is that the 2nd Kev Walker series)? After that, I ended up looking forward to them less each time. I think Clint Langley is incredible, but by the later stages it just didn't hold my interest. The Tubal Cain stuff.. meh. Still love the idea of a robot with metal facial hair, mind.
Couldn't stand Dante at first. Smug self important show off shags his way around future Russia spouting incredibly annoying one liners? Bleh. By the end it was one of my favourite series ever. Reread it for the first time last year in the UC and it absolutely holds up as one of the most satisfying arcs Tharg has ever published. I still cringe whenever he says 'I'm too cool to kill', it is a HORRIBLE line and incredibly dated/naff. But man, what a story. Shout out for Kurakin too - she's great.
Dante
Quote from: Blue Cactus on 18 August, 2022, 10:21:26 AM
Smug self important show off shags his way around future Russia spouting incredibly annoying one liners?
This is such a good description of early Dante.
Now I have it in beautiful hardback I've started lending the softbacks out and I keep telling people to stick with it through the first book... But if Dante didn't start off such a nob, the rest of the story wouldn't be as good.
Nikolai Dante
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 18 August, 2022, 10:30:35 AM
Quote from: Blue Cactus on 18 August, 2022, 10:21:26 AM
Smug self important show off shags his way around future Russia spouting incredibly annoying one liners?
This is such a good description of early Dante.
Now I have it in beautiful hardback I've started lending the softbacks out and I keep telling people to stick with it through the first book... But if Dante didn't start off such a nob, the rest of the story wouldn't be as good.
Exactly!
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 18 August, 2022, 10:30:35 AMBut if Dante didn't start off such a nob, the rest of the story wouldn't be as good.
Yes. It is a story of evolution. The sheer contrast between his actions and the wider world throughout drive that story. You never know what's going to happen.
By contrast, ABC Warriors is on repeat. You know no-one's in danger unless Mills gets bored of writing them.
Dante. Because however great the ABCs were- and I'm one of those who loved it right through to the end- Dante appeals more to the adult me.
However, given the choice of 3 and 3/4 inch action figures to play with, it'd be the Warriors all day long.
SBT
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 18 August, 2022, 12:00:21 PM
Dante. Because however great the ABCs were- and I'm one of those who loved it right through to the end- Dante appeals more to the adult me.
However, given the choice of 3 and 3/4 inch action figures to play with, it'd be the Warriors all day long.
SBT
I would have looooooooooved this as a kid. Would still be very tempted today! A poseable Mess action figure, just imagine...
Nikolai Dante
nikolai dante
Nikolai Dante.
XYZ Nuns.
Oh, okay - Dante.
ABC = Atomic, Bacterial, Chemical warfare proof Warriors.
But there's no D.
Not Dante proof, see?
Its a good point ABC Warriors don't seem to be Dante proof. Whats surprising me is the extent to which this seems to be the case. Today to go and I'll count up in the morning.
Ok, ABC Warriors for me. I've read little Dante so will vote for Meknificant Seven and Volgan Wars.
Quote from: Rogue Judge on 20 August, 2022, 07:58:40 AM
I've read little Dante...
As you can see here something well worth changing if you get the chance.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 20 August, 2022, 08:46:33 AM
Quote from: Rogue Judge on 20 August, 2022, 07:58:40 AM
I've read little Dante...
As you can see here something well worth changing if you get the chance.
Oh I plan on it! I've only been able to get my hands on Too Cool to Kill up to this point, but it sounds like the series only gets better. I'll make it a priority one day...
I should re-read Dante - my index page doesn't really do it justice as a saga. It feels like I should be able to sort the series into arcs. The 2000 AD Encyclopedia does a good job of differentiating the major characters.
VOTING CLOSED
The extent of Dante's victory is the most notable thing here. Both of these thrills have met great competition so far this tourney but what's interesting is this is Dante's first entry into the 20+ club. Morrison, Fraser and Burns' thrill dominated ABC Warriors from beginning, middle and end. A real statement.
Nikolai Dante
is into the quarter final.
ABC Warriors